How could anyone vote for George W. Bush?

[quote name='Indiana'][quote name='Matrix2k3']I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.[/quote]

Why would you re-elect a president that has done a terrible job for the last four years? Yes Kerry MAY not do a good job but Bush WILL DO a BAD JOB on this country with another 4 years in office! No more liberties and more tax decreases for the wealthy.....

In 5-10 more years the Middle class will be taxed even heavier to pay for those tax cuts and riduculous wasteful spending.[/quote]

and your source is....
 
[quote name='tyecko']Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky[/quote]


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='chosen1s']Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".[/quote]

LOL excuse me!? Are you saying that the media lets Democrats say ANYTHING at all!? Last time I checked, most television news stations (especially CNN) were owned by heavily conservative companys/peoples. Rupert Murdoc anyone? The majority of media in general is Conservative man, I thought that was a generally known fact? If you want a less biased take on the news, read BBC (like I do).[/quote]

uhm...Rupert Murdoc owns News Corp...which owns Fox News...CNN is as liberal as they come (hello, Ted Turnner).
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='spoo'][quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='Matrix2k3']I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.[/quote]

So whats the alternative? Let's say you have Hitler and some other guy, and you know exactly what kind of president Hitler is? What are you to do if you don't want him for another 4 years, not vote at all? You cross your fingers, vote for the other guy, and hope he does a better job. This is common sense here...[/quote]
Are you comparing Bush to Hitler?
:?:[/quote]

You missed my point entirely. I picked a historical figure that EVERYONE can agree was "bad" (i'm understating, i know, but i'm making a point here). You have candidate A who you KNOW will be bad (now this is Bush from my perspective, and that of many others). Then you have Kerry, who is the other guy. Somebody said that "voting for Kerry just because he's NOT Bush" was stupid, but this is my example for saying why it's NOT stupid. Because what else is a person to do if they don't support Bush?[/quote]
This is ironic b/c its coming from a jew but hitler was not a BAD leader, meaning unsuccessful. He was very successful(unlike bush), the only problem is that he was a crazy bastrard who was sicotic and resorted to murder to show his views of certain people.
 
[quote name='Southberm']
This is ironic b/c its coming from a jew but hitler was not a BAD leader, meaning unsuccessful. He was very successful(unlike bush), the only problem is that he was a crazy bastrard who was sicotic and resorted to murder to show his views of certain people.[/quote]

And if he had been president for the past 4 years and was up for reelection, would you vote for him? Or would you vote against him?
 
The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?!
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever'][quote name='tyecko']Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky[/quote]


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.[/quote]

Once again...your sources?

Who the f^ck cares what other countries think of us. We are THE lone superpower of this planet. We feed the world. We send billions of aid to countries all over the world when we don't have ot (billions to Africa to fight aids - rebuilding afgahnistan(sp), etc..). Some times to get the job done...you have to do it yourself and go it alone or with the support of few others. So screw the notion that everyone has to like you.

As far as the patriot act...don't be a terrorist. That's all I have to say. Keep your nose clean.
 
[quote name='Southberm']The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?![/quote]

You're...missing...the...POINT! fuckING FORGET HITLER! Let's say Charles Manson has been president for 4 years. He's up for reelection. You DON'T WANT TO ELECT MANSON AGAIN. SO WHAT DO YOU DO. YOU VOTE FOR THE OTHER GUY...SO MANSON'S CHANCES OF WINNING ARE SLIMMER! whats so fucking hard to see about this point!? Hitler was just an example of somebody you wouldn't want to reelect! Christ!
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='Southberm']The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?![/quote]

You're...missing...the...POINT! shaq-fuing FORGET HITLER! Let's say Charles Manson has been president for 4 years. He's up for reelection. You DON'T WANT TO ELECT MANSON AGAIN. SO WHAT DO YOU DO. YOU VOTE FOR THE OTHER GUY...SO MANSON'S CHANCES OF WINNING ARE SLIMMER! whats so shaq-fuing hard to see about this point!? Hitler was just an example of somebody you wouldn't want to reelect! Christ![/quote]
No I got the point i just had nothing better to do than clear that hitler thing up.
 
Have some responsibility for my opinions? Fark you and your damn high horse. I have several close friends in the military. One served in the first Gulf War and is headed back to Iraq. Another served in Korea, then Iraq, and is considering a civilian job in South Korea now. Several others are either in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. I know exactly the toll that military actions take. Number of them that have said 'we shouldn't be in Iraq, it's wrong'? Zero.

I'm not going to trot out all the arguments that have been tread over and over again in these same posts on this same board. What's the point? I won't waste my time.

I guess I don't have a responsible opinion like "anyone but Bush", which is really really responsible. If by responsible, you mean 'completely idiotic and going against the democratic ideal.' Hey, ask a certain senator about responsible opinions. You might know him...his opinion varies wildly depending on who he's talking to or what time of day it is.

If you vote 'anyone but Bush', please vote JimmieMac. He's not Bush, and he has the bonus attribute of probably making Clinton look like a saint. There would be no 'breaking scandals' in the White House, because when JimmieMac is banging some whore in the Oval Office, he'll be broadcasting it live over webcam at whitehouse.gov.

Scrubking, please bring your army of smilies to this post and shoot me.
 
CNN leans more towards the Democratic side biotch.

and you cant fucking compare Bush to Hitler you asshole. Thats not even a valid comparison. Hitler wanted world domination and wanted all of the Jews dead, and he massacred many people. Damn you are retarded.

So let me summarize y'alls reasons for voting for Kerry:
1)he's not Bush
2)he was in the war and saved a fellow soldier from an ambush

shit i should've known about these hardcore facts before I decided to side with Bush.

You compare Bush to Hitler, but i according to your standards, you would vote Hitler into office. Hitler wasnt psycho until after he was voted into office, and he's definitely not George Bush, so damn i guess you would vote for him?

If anyone besides Bush had to win, it should be *Dean*. But of course after he got excited on Tv, people stopped supporting him, and started supporting Kerry.

Kerry likes to use the fact that he served in Vietnam and the fact that Bush was in the National guard instead of going to Vietnam as a selling point in his campaign, but he does mention too often that after coming back from Vietnam he went and protested war. If you were against the war, dont go around bragging that you were in it. Kerry is one of the biggest hipocrits i've ever seen.

I'm not seeing what all these "terrible things" that bush has done are. Lets see..
1)he began the war on terror. Nothing wrong with that.
2)we invaded Afghanistan and took out the taliban government who had been harboring Al Quada(sp) and was supporting them.
3)we attacked Iraq. We had intelligence not only saying that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction, but also linked them to Al Quada(sp). We have no evidence that they did not have weapons of mass destruction. We believe they could have exported many of their weapons to a couple of their neighboring countries. We tried sending in the weapons inspectors and Saddam kept stalling, which would have given him plenty of time to ship weapons out. If you dont remember, we did give him a deadline to hand over his WMD's and we told him if he didnt hand them over we'd attack. Also when we went to the UN to get approval to attack, Germany and France kept stalling. We later found out that Saddam had been giving bribes to these 2 nations. This would have given him even more time to export weapons.

Who was the man running for re-election when Hitler first ran for presidency? Its kinda funny, everyone voted for Hitler because the economy was doing bad and Hitler said that he would bring back their good economy. I'm sure the Germans were thinking "Man i'll vote for anyone who isnt (insert the president running against Hitler)." Look how that turned out...
 
[quote name='mcwilliams132'][quote name='Ikohn4ever'][quote name='tyecko']Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky[/quote]


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.[/quote]

Once again...your sources?

Who the f^ck cares what other countries think of us. We are THE lone superpower of this planet. We feed the world. We send billions of aid to countries all over the world when we don't have ot (billions to Africa to fight aids - rebuilding afgahnistan(sp), etc..). Some times to get the job done...you have to do it yourself and go it alone or with the support of few others. So screw the notion that everyone has to like you.

As far as the patriot act...don't be a terrorist. That's all I have to say. Keep your nose clean.[/quote]

Alright here are some sources for ya "The tone of the gathering changed after a woman in the audience told McCain that her 13-year-old son was told that the Arizona senator is a "liar and a cheat," during a telephone "push poll" conducted the night before. "http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/02/10/campaign.wrap/

Nobody can find evidence of Bush actually serving in Alabama. Not one officer could verify him. "A review of Bush's military records shows that Bush enjoyed preferential treatment as the son of a then-congressman, when he walked into a Texas Guard unit in Houston two weeks before his 1968 graduation from Yale and was moved to the top of a long waiting list.

It was an era when service in the Guard was a coveted assignment, often associated with efforts to avoid active duty in Vietnam. Bush was accepted for pilot training after having scored only 25 percent on the pilot's aptitude test, the lowest acceptable grade.

In 2000, the Boston Globe examined a period from May 1972 to May 1973 and found no record that Bush performed any Guard duties, either in Alabama or Houston, although he was still enlisted.

According to military records obtained by The Washington Post, Bush first requested and received permission in May 1972 to be transferred to the Alabama National Guard so he could work on a U.S. Senate campaign. After he was in Alabama, he received notice from the Guard personnel center that he was "ineligible" for the Air Reserve Squadron he requested.

In August 1972, Bush was suspended from flying because he failed to complete an annual medical exam. A month later, Bush requested to be assigned to a different unit in Alabama and was approved. Although he was required to attend periodic drills in Alabama, there is no official record in his file that he did.

According to the records, Bush had been instructed to report to William Turnipseed, an officer in the Montgomery unit. "Had he reported in, I would have had some recall and I do not," Turnipseed, a retired brigadier general, told the Globe in 2000. "I had been in Texas, done my flight training there. If we had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7372-2004Feb2?language=printer)

Just because I am not a terrorist does not mean I am not effected by the Patriot Act. Anti-war sediment or giving money to organizations that are anti-war could lead u into trouble. There are people that no one has seen since they have been taken away. No trial, no jury, just imprisonment, thats some really good democracy
 
Ugh, these people are so antsy to jump on a comparison that wasn't even made. I picked Hitler because he's generally considdered "bad", and most people wouldn't elect him had he already been president for 4 years. No, I would not reelect Hitler, where did you find that? I'm not comparing Hitler to Bush in any way OTHER than I wouldn't want either of them as president of our country. Seriously, this isn't hard to understand. Stop getting so fired up. Did I compare policy or actions ANYWHERE in my posts? No. I said that I (and I assume many others) wouldn't want Hitler as a president (especially if he had already been president for 4 years).

To PsyClerk: If I voted for JimmieMac instead of Kerry, that would give Bush a slight advantage. Look at the Math. Lets say I'm going to vote, and I'm ONLY one of 2 people who gets to vote (stay with me all of you people that can't follow EXAMPLES). Here's the tally before i vote.

Bush: 0, Kerry: 0, JimmyMac: 0

Ok, now if I vote for Jimmy and the other dude votes for Bush, who wins? Bush. We'll assume that JimmyMac is essentially a "throw away" vote, and that it wouldn't be a tie. However, If I vote for kerry (we'll assume that this isn't a "throw away"), It becomes a tie. Come on man, I know you're smart enough to see this, right? Thus, if I honestly don't want Bush in a second term, the SMARTEST thing that I should do is vote Kerry. Do you see the math/logic?
 
uh Cracka that was dean who got excited on TV

And the only reason that Afghanistan went so quick was because of Clinton's army. Bush's budget did not effect the military till after the Afghaniy conflict. But I dont hear anyone complaining about that.

Thats some bad logic saying that "We have no evidence that they did not have weapons of mass destruction". I have no evidence that u dont have WMD so we should attack you to?

Actually Hitler was never the president. If you looked up the facts you would have known that President von Hindenburg called on Hitler to form a new government and to become the chancellor of Germany. Then "Hitler called for von Hindenburg to sign an emergency decree "for the protection of the people and the state."

The emergency decree canceled all individual and civil rights, placing power in the hands of Hitler and his party. It became illegal for Germans to express their opinions freely, or to assemble to hear political speeches or for any other reason. And the decree made it legal for Hitler and his Brownshirts to control what was published in newspapers or broadcast as news over the radio; to open mail, read telegrams, and listen in on telephone conversations; to search houses without warning; to confiscate personal property; and to rule by dictatorship in any of the states of Germany, whenever Hitler thought it necessary" http://www.rossel.net/Holocaust01.htm

Sounds very similar to the patriot act to me, the censoring of tv, emergency act to lose rights and giving them to the government. Getting a feeling of Deja Vu
 
[quote name='evilmax17']blah blah blah words words etc[/quote]

My mistake. Thought you could tell it was a joke. Won't happen again, promise.

/still waiting on the shooting
 
[quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='coffman']I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html[/quote]

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"[/quote]

How can this administration criticize anyone for not laying it on the table though? They're the most secretive administration since Nixon, they refuse to declassify memos and briefings that legally should be avliable to the public under the freedom of information act.

Every newsconference and speech is rehersed for days in advance and the journalists asking the questions are handpicked. They withhold pictures of soldiers funerals/caskets to avoid bad poll numbers. They refuse to admit mistakes... ever... they just distribute the blame elsewhere (FBI or CIA for the most part) or pretend that no mistake was made to begin with, even in the most obvious blunders. I dunno about you, but I'd rather have someone in office that can admit when he's made a mistake and change positions on an issue than someone who is so stubborn that he maintains his position no matter what the reality of the situation may be.
 
[quote name='RichD1']Oh please. It's the nature of war; and it's 30+ years old.[/quote]

The people that died still matter.
The truth is still out there, nobody can cover it up.

The Vietnam war crimes WILL be in history books, and then everyone will know.


Osama bin Ladin organized the deaths of thousands.
Thats the nature of war, isn't?
So he shouldn't be punished, right?

A soldier shoots a 6 year old girl in the face 30 years ago, should he be punished?

Think about it.

___
Also, if one knows where to look, all information is free. Not legal, not easy, nor even safe, but free.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Everyone here should go read 1984 by Orwell. Oh wait...it's banned in some places...[/quote]

That book is cool!
If you take it to school and show it to people you get a lot of days off!
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']Why must you people make these political threads? It's just he-said-she-said until people get bored and move on. It's not even worth it.[/quote]

I agree. When I see threads like this, it almost makes me wish that Al Gore hadn't invented the internet all those years ago.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...[/quote]

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html
 
[quote name='mcwilliams132'][quote name='evilmax17']One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...[/quote]

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html[/quote]

Uh, homie? My whole family works in the biz. It's often the case that whole departments will be comprised completely of foreigners, with an american overseeing things. Most of it DOES goes on overseas though, but ponder this. If this Outsourcing isn't a threat, then why did Northeastern University (one of the world's most prominant Co-op schools) have it's highest unemployed numbers in the last few years, in CS. Throughout it's 5 year program, companies take on students to work "in the field" to gain experience, yet the unemployment rate for students in these "co-op periods" was at its highest within the past years. More importantly, many of the CS majors who graduated within the past 3 years didn't move on to businesses and computer companies, but rather low-paying "temp" jobs, for the shear fact that there was nothing available. If it's not such a threat, then why didn't these people get jobs?
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Some evidence of GW's daddy and the Reagan admin giving are favorite Iraqi dictator some presents

"According to a Senate Report of 1994 {1}: From 1985, if not
earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological
materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers
pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department
of Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow
and agonizing deaths, were:
Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs,
brain, spinal cord and heart.
Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major
organs.
Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria
causing systemic illness.
Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.
Also, Escherichia Coli (E.Coli); genetic materials; human
and bacterial DNA.
Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped
to Iraq during the 1980s. The Senate Report pointed out:
"These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and
were capable of reproduction."
"It was later learned," the committee revealed, "that these
microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to
those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the
Iraqi biological warfare program."
These exports continued to at least November 28, 1989 despite
the fact that Iraq had been reported to be engaging in chemical
warfare and possibly biological warfare against Iranians, Kurds,
and Shiites since the early 80s.
During the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-88, the United States gave
military aid and intelligence information to both sides, hoping
that each would inflict severe damage on the other. (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/usvsiraq.htm)

here's another lil didy "He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region" (http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1991/C231.html"[/quote]

Looks like alot of heresay to me. The first part admits that it was "private American suppliers" that had shipped in the makings for some WMD components, but it offers no substantial evidence that our government was responsible for ordering those items. . .

All I'm seeing here is a report obviously written by people who have an agenda (see "chilling accounts of the cozy relationship. . ."), to make a Republican administration look bad.

BTW, I wouldn't trust the mainstream press to tell me the sky's blue, cause it's probably grey, cloudy, and rainy.

Steve
 
[quote name='mcwilliams132'][quote name='evilmax17']One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...[/quote]

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html[/quote]

I used to sing this tune. "Outsourcing is good for the US." "We import more jobs than we export." Blah, blah, blah. Now I'm training my Brazilian replacements. I have friends that are training their Indian, Chinese, and Belarusian replacements. This country is being sold off at mach speed, and no studies or journals have the statistics or numbers yet to show just how bad it really is. I walk down the hallways at work and one out of two people is a new face from a foreign land. Once it happens to you or someone close to you you'll change your tune pretty damn quick.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']obvously they've been paying you too much money. Go find a new job and quit your bitching.[/quote]


Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.
 
"It is childish and immature. For a party that seeks to embrace "all people and all ideas", you sure are a hateful group of people who would rather defend a tyrant halfway across the world than embrace a political rival in your own country. "

Who said I was part of a group?!?

I'd much rather have an independant financed by his own money (no private investors) as president then a repub or demo.

But as it stands now, no independant is going to win.

So you have to go to the lesser of two evils: John Kerry.
 
[quote name='Kaw']Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.[/quote]

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.
 
I Love Bush!! He handled the war in Iraq like a true hero and all the recent speculations are nothing but democratic lies trying to take hold of the Whitehouse. And Condaleezza Rice (sp?) told the whole truth that Bush did NOT know about 9/11 beforehand. Go Bush!
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='mcwilliams132'][quote name='evilmax17']One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...[/quote]

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html[/quote]

Uh, homie? My whole family works in the biz. It's often the case that whole departments will be comprised completely of foreigners, with an american overseeing things. Most of it DOES goes on overseas though, but ponder this. If this Outsourcing isn't a threat, then why did Northeastern University (one of the world's most prominant Co-op schools) have it's highest unemployed numbers in the last few years, in CS. Throughout it's 5 year program, companies take on students to work "in the field" to gain experience, yet the unemployment rate for students in these "co-op periods" was at its highest within the past years. More importantly, many of the CS majors who graduated within the past 3 years didn't move on to businesses and computer companies, but rather low-paying "temp" jobs, for the shear fact that there was nothing available. If it's not such a threat, then why didn't these people get jobs?[/quote]

Because we live in a capitalistic society...that's why. Not everyone is guarunteed a job - if you want job security...move to a socialistic country but be prepared to pay well over 1/2 your income to the government for taxes so you can pay for everyone else's job security. Government cannot create wealth or jobs. It can play a small role but that's it.

I work in "the biz" too and have great job security - and I didn't go to school for it. Isn't capitalism great!
 
The reason there is a problem with IT/Computer jobs is because we're still feeling effects of the dot com bubble a few years ago. So many people saw all the money that was thrown at dot coms and IT people, and those people decided to join in. The problem is not lack of IT jobs, instead it's too many people competing for those jobs.

And recent experience (as in, the past year or so) has shown that there is another problem in IT...education. Any schmoe can go get certification now. They pay the school, and the school will almost never deny them certification as long they show up for class. I've seen so many idiots who don't know the first thing about the job they are applying for. True story: at my last job, we had a guy apply for work as a computer tech. In the interview, the employer mentioned all the network business we handled and the guy, really and truly, said "Network? What's that?"
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Kaw']Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.[/quote]

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.[/quote]

amen
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Kaw']Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.[/quote]

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.[/quote]

I think I'm missing something here. If you invested 4+ years of your life, and probably about over $60,000 to get an education in CS, how is that having something "handed to you"? After all that blood and sweat for a degree, wouldn't you expect opportunities to use that degree? Am I now expecting too much to want to get a job in my field that I trained for, or am I just whinning, and should spend another 4+ years in a new field that will likely disappear under the Republican control.

What happens when ALL jobs but retail and healthcare are sent overseas? Say all defense, satellite, optics, hardware, construction, manufacturing, steel, systems work, ... EVERYTHING but wal-mart and restaurants. The government now faces a shrinking tax base and America suffers.

I think it's time we outsourced the president's job.
 
[quote name='joeposh'][quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='coffman']I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html[/quote]

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"[/quote]

How can this administration criticize anyone for not laying it on the table though? They're the most secretive administration since Nixon, they refuse to declassify memos and briefings that legally should be avliable to the public under the freedom of information act.

Every newsconference and speech is rehersed for days in advance and the journalists asking the questions are handpicked. They withhold pictures of soldiers funerals/caskets to avoid bad poll numbers. They refuse to admit mistakes... ever... they just distribute the blame elsewhere (FBI or CIA for the most part) or pretend that no mistake was made to begin with, even in the most obvious blunders. I dunno about you, but I'd rather have someone in office that can admit when he's made a mistake and change positions on an issue than someone who is so stubborn that he maintains his position no matter what the reality of the situation may be.[/quote]

Um, I guess it was Bush then who wrote the story about the records that Kerry claimed were available not being available? You're blaming Bush for the results of what Kerry did to himself, and you have already conceded my point. The administration didn't have anything to do with this, it was led by a reporter who was checking facts.

You can make as many excuses as you want for Kerry's flip-flopping. Clearly you will accept any actions by the man regardless of how disconcerting they are and use the excuse that "at least it's different than what the Bush administration is doing". If Bush couldn't seem to make up his mind about anything, I don't think you would be so quick to attribute it to "honesty" and "non-prepared speeches". At least be intellectually honest with yourself and admit that you have already made up your mind who you like and who you hate and you are searching for ways to make the facts support your feelings rather than allowing facts to shape your decisions.
 
[quote name='mcwilliams132'][quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='chosen1s']Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".[/quote]

LOL excuse me!? Are you saying that the media lets Democrats say ANYTHING at all!? Last time I checked, most television news stations (especially CNN) were owned by heavily conservative companys/peoples. Rupert Murdoc anyone? The majority of media in general is Conservative man, I thought that was a generally known fact? If you want a less biased take on the news, read BBC (like I do).[/quote]


TEd Turner doesn't own CNN, he sold it a while ago

uhm...Rupert Murdoc owns News Corp...which owns Fox News...CNN is as liberal as they come (hello, Ted Turnner).[/quote]
 
[quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='coffman']I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html[/quote]

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"[/quote]


The answer is Kerry is hiding nothing since he released everything, which is more than Bush has done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4790712/
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY'][quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='coffman']I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html[/quote]

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"[/quote]


The answer is Kerry is hiding nothing since he released everything, which is more than Bush has done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4790712/[/quote]

Which is the problem that Gillespie, head of the RNC is running into. He saw a dead end with that character assassination attempt, so now it's only a matter of time until he scrutinizes Kerry's wife's tax returns over the past few years in hopes of making him look bad. They will stop at nothing because Bush has such a lousy record, so they need to go down this path instead.
 
[quote name='"chosen1s"'][quote name='joeposh']You can make as many excuses as you want for Kerry's flip-flopping.[/quote]

More propaganda from the RNC. :roll:

So let's go with stubborn leadership instead, no compromise, no nothing. That's the texas way - "my way or the highway".
 
Heres is a fact, all political figures are crooded, lying, money grubing, theifs. I dont feel safe voting for anyone of them, cuz they all are in it for the power/money. Power over money because presidents really dont make that much compared to what they already have.
 
well, there was no way that i was going to read through the 12 pages of this topic so i read the first couple then moved on to the last couple, so i am not sure if some of this was addressed.

first off, how anyone can support or even defend outsoursing just seems crazy to me. you are supporting the destruction of american lives simply for the benefit of a company and its shareholders. i love it when people say they love this country and its people then turn around and either support outsourcing or buy shit that was once made by americans and now made by people in sri lanka. and please don't give me the crap about people going out and finding new trades, its bullshit. you can try and many may succeed, but they will never get back to the standard of living that they once had. and the funny thing about this is that they in turn will not have the purchasing power that they once did and they will continue to have a negative effect on the economy because they can no longer buy anything!

second, how can anyone vote for bush and his administration after they have lied, time and time again, to the american public. and you bush pundits can not even deny it because it can be seen in their public addresses before and after the war in iraq. i think this should be a require read for EVERYONE.
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
you can see how the bush administration went through its stages for getting the american public behind the march to war and duping congress into voting for war. and the great things is that you blind republican supporters can not even deny the facts that this site lays out because it uses all public records, no implying of what the bush administration did or did not do behind closed doors, just want they said to the american public and there is no way anyone can argue with it. so take your "bush is an ok guy" shit and shove it up your BLIND STUPID and IGNORANT ASS. if you had any intelligence whatsoever you could never support bush. it is only because you deny reason or are just too plain stupid.

so yea, kind of a long way of saying, bush is a fuckass, and kerry in 04.
 
[quote name='mcwilliams132']Let's bring this back to a CHEAPASSGAMER theme.

If you like having more money in your pockets (or the pockets of your parents) to buy more games...Vote Republican - Tax Cuts! If you're truely a cheap ass you don't want your hard earned dollars going off to pay for someone else's lazy ass...YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR MONEY TO BUY MORE GAMES...

And don't give me the lame ass excuse of "tax cuts for the wealthy" schtick that ALL you numb-brain, know nothings spew. If you pay taxes...you get a tax cut...period. Don't pay taxes? No tax refund...if you don't pay in...you don't get back. The tax system isn't a hand-out system.

Vote Bush if you want more of your own money in your hands to buy more games!

Kerry want to take YOUR MONEY so he can go buy games for lazy asses that that don't work for it![/quote]


We get a $300 tax cut, and go from a budget surplus to a 500+ Billion Debt a year (and growing) to pass along to our kids. Sounds like a fair trade to me. That money isnt real anyways.


And seriously folks: John Ashcroft? I wouldnt give this guy the time of day, he should be on a street corner somewhere begging for change.
 
While I completely sympathize with people who lose their jobs due to outsourcing, everyone in the country also benefits from cheaper prices and goods because of it. You shouldn't forget that - the benefits are spread out across the entire population while the costs are concentrated among the relatively few in the industry who lose their jobs.

When you start trying to control the economy through tariffs/quotas and the like - you really screw up the economy. America is where it is because it has had freer markets than other countries.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Kaw']Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.[/quote]

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.[/quote]

For the record, I have a new job. I was able to find a new job shortly after I was told to start looking for one. But who's to say that won't be outsourced next? I would like a little job security, I would take a 25% pay cut If they would tell me I have a job for the next ten years. No one "owes" me anything, and I don't believe I ever said they did. However, it does piss me off that corporate America is screwing hard working people so the exectives can get a hefty bonus at the end of the year. I don't expect anything to be handed to me, but I expect to keep a job when my performance ratings have been exceptional, and my customers sing my praises. Is that too much to ask?
 
[quote name='E-Z-B'][quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Kaw']Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.[/quote]

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.[/quote]

I think I'm missing something here. If you invested 4+ years of your life, and probably about over $60,000 to get an education in CS, how is that having something "handed to you"? After all that blood and sweat for a degree, wouldn't you expect opportunities to use that degree? Am I now expecting too much to want to get a job in my field that I trained for, or am I just whinning, and should spend another 4+ years in a new field that will likely disappear under the Republican control.

What happens when ALL jobs but retail and healthcare are sent overseas? Say all defense, satellite, optics, hardware, construction, manufacturing, steel, systems work, ... EVERYTHING but wal-mart and restaurants. The government now faces a shrinking tax base and America suffers.

I think it's time we outsourced the president's job.[/quote]

amen
 
[quote name='danny-o']It was already obvious that he would serve only one term because of the way he was elected. No matter what happened.[/quote]

What the gift of Florida from his brother? :D

I will not be suprised if Bush wins...I do not want him to win but he has more money to finance his campaign than anyone ever.
 
Start oursourcing all VP and CEO jobs and see how quickly the Republican tune changes.

Why pay an American CEO 50 Million a year. I'm sure we can get someone from India or China to do the job for $100,000
 
George W has been a great president during a hard time for our country. I whole heartedly support him and his administration. He will be getting my vote in November.
 
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