How Rockstar Screwed Us and Why Jack Thompson is Right - A CAG Editorial

[quote name='CheapyD']Come on now, surely thats only a small part of what makes this website look amateurish.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:


I think it's a little silly that no store will sell this game now that it's rated AO due to a nearly impossible to access scene of some video games characters getting it on. (I haven't seen the mini-game/cut scene/whatever myself.) The game has been put on the same level as hardcore (live-action) porn. But that's the system we have, and Rockstar certainly knew that the game would not have been rated M with that bit left in the game. It's either stupid/sloppy or a twisted marketing move. I'd guess the former.

They should have come out right when it was found on the PC version and admitted it wasa bit of code they left on the disc. They could have just said that since it was inaccessible through any normal means they didn't realize the scene wasn't completely removed. But they made up their BS story (which most people seemed to realize as pure BS from the start...)

Anyway, I really don't have a problem with a game's rating being changed due to hidden content. You start trying to decide just 'how accessible' hidden content should be before it affects a rating and you are on a slippery slope. I think this case proves that no matter how 'hidden', there is always a way to dredge up anything left on the disc. Game makers need to keep that in mind from here on.
 
I still don't see why it is such a big deal. Rockstar fucked up by not owning up to it in the first place but they didn't leave "Hot Coffee" on an E-rated game. It was an M-Rated game that clearly said sexual themes on the label to start with.
 
I hate how little kids think this game is so cool. I hope Rockstar becomes DeadStar. All their games beyond GTA3 have done nothing for the industry but draw attention to us gamers in a bad way.

Long live the King CheapyD and his lethargic* editorials.


*this is just a joke
 
050725.jpg
 
[quote name='howlinmad']I agree, this is a huge blow for the future of video games, but stop and think why this is. Nobody wants to take the blame.

[/QUOTE]

May or may not be a huge blow. I personally doubt it, the industry is growing very quickly.

[quote name='howlinmad'] The problem does indeed stem from the parents. They want someone else to regulate, to tell them, what their kid can play.
This is why the rating system exists in the first place people.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, the intent is to give people (not just parents) a simple guide-line on what would be appropriate for each age group. I suspect that most people find the system useful, but it does need to have credability.

[quote name='howlinmad']

I see it every time I go ANYWHERE. Momma is not paying any attention to the little bastard running up and down the isle at the steak house....
Leaving their kid in the toy isle for Wal-Mart to babysit, I've literally seen parents do this, and the kid couldn't have been over 7, if that. You are right, this isn't the parent's fault. They obviously take care of their kid and are responsible. My hobby should be in jeopardy because of this.
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure how this directly relates, but it seems to me that you are making assumptions, it that not the same thing that you are accusing the law-makers of? What kind of hobby to you have?


[quote name='howlinmad']

Should it possibly have been AO anyway? Maybe, maybe not. It's rated Mature, which I thought meant 17+. The logic in this, that is the biggest problem for me, can be summed up in a quote, from Bruce Cambell. "You can shoot a boobie, but you can't kiss it." WHY WHY WHY is violence much more accepted than sex and nudity?
[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Violence is often overlooked, but I suspect that it is a symptom of the American culture, religion, and political system, as violence seems to be treated differently in other first world counties.
 
So, gamespot apparently unlocked this mini-game on a ps2 console. It took more than five hours to unlock using Action Replay.

And you know what?

In five minutes, I can call up a hooker and in twenty have her at my house to create my own goddamn hot coffee sex mini-game.

So when a goddamn majority of kids under 17 have had under-age sex, I sincerely doubt a fucken naked chick, which takes hours to unlock, in a video game - is a real concern.

As much as I think the issue is stupid; I hate rock star, I hate their games, and I hope they go out of business for making the industry look stupid.
 
[quote name='j-fever']I am not sure how this directly relates, but it seems to me that you are making assumptions, it that not the same thing that you are accusing the law-makers of? What kind of hobby to you have?

Originally Posted by howlinmad
The problem does indeed stem from the parents. They want someone else to regulate, to tell them, what their kid can play.
This is why the rating system exists in the first place people.


Actually, the intent is to give people (not just parents) a simple guide-line on what would be appropriate for each age group. I suspect that most people find the system useful, but it does need to have credability.
[/QUOTE]

I am simply saying that if the way the parent shows no control or restraint of their kid what so ever in public, it's probably safe to assume (yes yes, when you assume it makes an ass out of u and me) they don't do a hell of alot of it elsewhere. So an assumption that they are just kidding when they say rated M for mature, is no different from watching someone leave a small child in a store in the toy isle while they go elsewhere?

Yes, that is why the rating system exists, which would give people INCLUDING the parents a guide as to what jr. can play. The problem with this is, as some have already pointed out before, video games are viewed by many as being for children. I have been in two different stores where a woman returned GTA:SA. Both times they acknowledged the clerk did tell them it was a mature rated game with lots of violence, drug use, sex, etc. They both said they figured since it was a video game it couldn't be that bad. Again, pay attention to what your kids are doing.

My hobby is video games. Yours? :)
 
The AO rating is more of a punishment than it is a deserving rating. While Rockstar may not have been fined, they are indirectly by loss of distribution, and the best way to send a message to a big company is through it's pocketbook.

The main reason some stores won't sell it now is because they are afraid of being sued. Even if a case doesn't make it to court, attorney's aren't cheap. Some people are looking for a quick buck and there are plenty of lawyers who feel people were offended and misinformed of the product.
 
[quote name='howlinmad']I am simply saying that if the way the parent shows no control or restraint of their kid what so ever in public, it's probably safe to assume (yes yes, when you assume it makes an ass out of u and me) they don't do a hell of alot of it elsewhere. So an assumption that they are just kidding when they say rated M for mature, is no different from watching someone leave a small child in a store in the toy isle while they go elsewhere?

My hobby is video games. Yours?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I laugh when I warn people about GTA and then they ignore me and end up buying it for their ten year old son.

I'm the one that's gonna have to fucken pay when they go to court for killing someone. I hate children and I realize that I hate most people on the road.

This is why killing occurs on the streets - not GTA.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Unused content gets left in games all the time, ie standard practice. Up until now devs never thought twice about leaving an unused piece of game in a finished product, ie standard practice.

You seem to think otherwise simply because of the amount of content that was left by R*, but when the deadline is up and the game needs to be finished there is little difference between an unused 100 meg building interior or level and an unused 100 meg minigame.

Unused content is unused content and should not be taken into account when judging the finished product.

By this ridiculous standard every game that has unused guns, blood, gore, death animations, naked or semi naked skins and audio clips with bad or racy language need to have their ratings changed - which is crazy.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed the point.

It is not just the amount or quantity (and I am NOT taking about used disk space) but actual functions or gameplay. Like I said in my original post unused skins (plus your added examples) are minor and would not add up to much until they are all tied together, like in the minigame.

Removal of such content should be part of the deadline (This IS a AAA title after all), and would ususally not take more than 1/2 hour with a delete key, in many cases.
 
[quote name='Doylerulez']The AO rating is more of a punishment than it is a deserving rating. While Rockstar may not have been fined, they are indirectly by loss of distribution, and the best way to send a message to a big company is through it's pocketbook.

The main reason some stores won't sell it now is because they are afraid of being sued. Even if a case doesn't make it to court, attorney's aren't cheap. Some people are looking for a quick buck and there are plenty of lawyers who feel people were offended and misinformed of the product.[/QUOTE]

IMO, AO is appropriate for that game - it's probably one of the most violent out there. Although, the restriction is by just one damn year and I see little difference in maturity between 17 and 18 year olds.
 
I find it ironic and especially telling that you'd post this editorial when, two news items down, we read:

Action Replay MAX aka "The Enabler of Hot Coffee" (PS2) $15 shipped free at Amazon (TRU)

By now you've heard all about the "Hot Coffee" controversy. Here's the device that lets you make it happen on the PS2 version of GTA:SA.
Click to expand...

Just like this 'scandal' is all about sales for Rockstar, and all about votes for the fuckwits screaming 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN,' it's all about associate clicks for this website.

Let's face it. This whole thing isn't about Morality, or Law, or Trust, or any other Big Philosophical Word worthy of blathering, self-indulgent ruminations. The scandal, like any other, is about greed, pure and simple.

This scandal will be milked by all the parties involved til it's dry, and little to nothing will change.
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']So, gamespot apparently unlocked this mini-game on a ps2 console. It took more than five hours to unlock using Action Replay.

And you know what?

In five minutes, I can call up a hooker and in twenty have her at my house to create my own goddamn hot coffee sex mini-game.

So when a goddamn majority of kids under 17 have had under-age sex, I sincerely doubt a fucken naked chick, which takes hours to unlock, in a video game - is a real concern.

As much as I think the issue is stupid; I hate rock star, I hate their games, and I hope they go out of business for making the industry look stupid.[/QUOTE]

It takes 5 minutes to unlock hot coffee - less if you try to hurry. Just cause it took some idiots 5 hours doesn't mean that is the standard. :roll:

And I'm sick of all you stupid haters who want R* to die and go to hell simply because you don't like their games. Rockstar didn't make the industry look bad - the ESRB did when they bent over for Hillary, Jack and Leland.
 
The thing I love about this whole deal is that politicians are willing to stand up and berate the "free enterprise" companies for producing a game with violent or sexual content...but...they are not willing to stand up and do the same against, oh say, the America's Army game. The game created BY the US Army (with US taxpayer dollars I might add) and released for free. Not only does the game involve killing, but, has also been used as a bit of a recruiting/promotional tool for the Army.

We all know the armed forces have been using games and/or simulations for YEARS to train troops. Flashback, how many people here remember the DooM Marine mod? In any case, I just see it as a bit hypocritical for0 "government employees" (politicians) to attack the private sector when they (government) are guilty of the same things.

My point is...Clean your own house before you start causing a stir because the neighbor's place is dirty.

Don't get me wrong. I do think Rockstar is to blame and should take the brunt of this. However, I things the government's involvement needs to be limited to ONLY allowing the ESRB to enforce the following solution...

If a game is released with a certain rating and it is later discovered there is content within the released product that is outside (beyond) the realm of that rating, ANY person that owns a copy of the game may send it directly back to the publisher for a FULL refund. All remaining copies are pulled from store shelves and the game must be resubmitted to the ESRB for a new rating approval (either with or without the content in question in tact).

This puts the burdon on the shoulders of the developers and publishers to ensure the content they release is withing the rating they recieved when evalutated by the ESRB. And, it also keeps the games from needing to be watered down (like so many films that should have been R rated, but, were edited in order to obtain a PG-13 rating...only to be released in an "unrated" cut on DVD).
 
[quote name='howlinmad']I am simply saying that if the way the parent shows no control or restraint of their kid what so ever in public, it's probably safe to assume (yes yes, when you assume it makes an ass out of u and me) they don't do a hell of alot of it elsewhere. So an assumption that they are just kidding when they say rated M for mature, is no different from watching someone leave a small child in a store in the toy isle while they go elsewhere?

My hobby is video games. Yours?[/QUOTE]

Well I have good news for you, your hobby is not in jeopardy by new laws or not. I play video games too!

I will agree, that I would not approve of leaving my child unattended in a busy public area. Sorry, I don't understand the second part, are you suggesting that there needs to be laws governing how a family goes shopping at Walmart?
 
I think Rockstar screwed up, either by trying to get away with something or by accidentally leaving content on the disc, but they screwed up. Then on top of that they lied and said the game was altered by a hacker, which was lame.

It's a shame, I think their developers have some talent and I'd love to see what they could do with a game that was made for a wider audience. I'm just getting tired of shock-value games. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't think GTA is a quality franchise, just that it sells so well that other publishers are trying for shock too and often don't have that quality.

We'd go a long way if people would start treating the ESRB ratings as seriously as they do movie ratings. Those plug-n-play games that are in the toy department include a Mortal Kombat version. It has an M on it, but are parents going to think that's something to worry about when it's sitting in the same ailse as Hot Wheels?
 
[quote name='j-fever']Well I have good news for you, your hobby is not in jeopardy by new laws or not. I play video games too!

I will agree, that I would not approve of leaving my child unattended in a busy public area. Sorry, I don't understand the second part, are you suggesting that there needs to be laws governing how a family goes shopping at Walmart?[/QUOTE]

edited....
Not worth it.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']It takes 5 minutes to unlock hot coffee - less if you try to hurry. Just cause it took some idiots 5 hours doesn't mean that is the standard. :roll:

And I'm sick of all you stupid haters who want R* to die and go to hell simply because you don't like their games. Rockstar didn't make the industry look bad - the ESRB did when they bent over for Hillary, Jack and Leland.[/QUOTE]

Five minutes?



To prove or disprove rumors that the PS2 San Andreas contains a sexually graphic minigame, GameSpot decided to test the cheat codes circulating around the Web on a sealed, first-edition copy of San Andreas. After acquiring the "Uncensored Hot Coffee" codes from the respected tech-blog Kotaku, we entered them into an easily obtainable Action Replay Max cheat device. After entering the "Enable all Girlfriends" cheat, we began the game and then gave CJ maximum sex appeal, via a cheat from GameFAQs that requires no external code.

After saving, our test editor had Carl visit the house of his nearest girlfriend, Denise in Los Santos. Carl then took Denise on a series of dates to the nearest bar. After a few complications--including being busted for two-timing by another of CJ's girlfriends--we completed a fourth date with Denise, after which she invited us into her house for "coffee."

The next screen proved that the PlayStation 2 edition of the game does indeed include a sexually graphic minigame, which plays almost exactly the same as the Hot Coffee mod. It begins inside a bedroom with Denise, wearing only a pink thong and a cutoff T-shirt bearing the Rockstar logo, performing simulated fellatio on CJ, who is fully clothed in jeans and a "wife beater"-style tank top.


Given that the minigame is about as raunchy as an episode of Sex and the City, cannot be accessed without entering a long string of cheat codes, and takes several hours of effort to access, charges that San Andreas is "pornographic" may seem extreme to some. However, its existence does appear to contradict Rockstar Games' carefully worded statement blaming hacker mischief for the existence of the Hot Coffee mod.
Click to expand...


Heh, we all know it takes little time on the PC version. I'm talking PS2 version here. Wait, now it's my turn to use this retarded smiley :roll:

No but seriously, I hate rockstar for a lot of things besides their games. I think they fucked up big time - not the ESRB. They shouldn't have left that shit in the goddamn game if they weren't going to use it and pop on an AO rating. Rockstar can suck my balls because they just gave opponents of the industry a lot of ammo.

So why don't you go over to that corner and sit for a while to think about how there are people who disagree with you: not because of your silly little misconceptions, but for tangible reasons.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Unused content is unused content and should not be taken into account when judging the finished product.[/QUOTE]

The problem is though, a publisher could release a game that is simply a cute, fluffy bunny that walks from the left to the right of the screen... and you win! - an EC rating if I've ever heard of one!

Then, with an Action Replay cheat code, you can unlock a game full of sex/rape, hard core drug use, horrible violence, etc... And the claim can be made that it was all just "unused content".
 
[quote name='megashock5']I think Rockstar screwed up, either by trying to get away with something or by accidentally leaving content on the disc, but they screwed up. Then on top of that they lied and said the game was altered by a hacker, which was lame.

It's a shame, I think their developers have some talent and I'd love to see what they could do with a game that was made for a wider audience. I'm just getting tired of shock-value games. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't think GTA is a quality franchise, just that it sells so well that other publishers are trying for shock too and often don't have that quality.

We'd go a long way if people would start treating the ESRB ratings as seriously as they do movie ratings. Those plug-n-play games that are in the toy department include a Mortal Kombat version. It has an M on it, but are parents going to think that's something to worry about when it's sitting in the same ailse as Hot Wheels?[/QUOTE]

You know what? I walk down a DVD aisle at walmart and find Resident Evil Apocalypse to my left, and then Nickelodeon's blues clues to my right.

Give me a break - people need to stop being fucken stupid about ratings in general.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']Who else thinks this is all a big fuss to go around the issue of BAD PARENTING?[/QUOTE]

Careful, the guilty will accuse you of assuming.
 
[quote name='organicow']I know fucking Wal-Mart wouldn't stock the games, but that's just a punch to the gut that an AO game publisher would just have to take. [/QUOTE]

See, this may be true in theory but it is still an unacceptable solution. Developers and publishers are only concerned about the bottom line. These games that we adults all should be allowed to play will cease to be made if stores like Wal-mart will not carry them.
 
[quote name='howlinmad']Jeopardy of not existing? No. However until someone makes people realize video games is not necessarily equal to children's toy, this is going to happen again and again. The ASSUMPTION has been correct more than once.

Yes, you understand the second part, you're just being a smart ass.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it will happen again and again, regardless of the result. Name calling is always helpful.

This discussion reminds me of a guest on the "Daily Show" last night, Rick Santorum, a senator from Pennsylvania. He consistently made assumptions based upon his personal beliefs rather than fact. Amazing.
 
[quote name='lord_ebonstone']I find it ironic and especially telling that you'd post this editorial when, two news items down, we read:



Just like this 'scandal' is all about sales for Rockstar, and all about votes for the fuckwits screaming 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN,' it's all about associate clicks for this website.

Let's face it. This whole thing isn't about Morality, or Law, or Trust, or any other Big Philosophical Word worthy of blathering, self-indulgent ruminations. The scandal, like any other, is about greed, pure and simple.

This scandal will be milked by all the parties involved til it's dry, and little to nothing will change.[/QUOTE]

Well u know how it is, Cheapy is a businessman after all ;)
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']You know what? I walk down a DVD aisle at walmart and find Resident Evil Apocalypse to my left, and then Nickelodeon's blues clues to my right.

Give me a break - people need to stop being fucken stupid about ratings in general.[/QUOTE]


No, how about YOU give ME a break. I'm not talking about the DVD aisle, or even the game section. The toy section of both Kohl's and Wal-Mart (repeat TOY SECTION. You know the section that basically screams "this is the part of the store for kids!") have plug-n-play games of Ms. Pac-Man, Sonic, Spongebob, and Mortal Kombat. All together, grouped together. Again, not the games section, the fucking TOY SECTION. At least in the DVD aisle the childrens' stuff is grouped together, not mixed in with the 'R' titles.

No one believes more than I do that parents need to know what their kids are buying/playing. But we have an uphill battle (for whatever reason) in trying to educate them to look for the big friggin' letter on the box. Putting MK right next to Spongebob in the TOY SECTION of a store just reinforces Jane Soccermom's incorrect belief that all games are for kids. And that's not helping gamers at all.
 
I may start a thread about this, but if anyone would be interested in helping me in starting a website that is kind of the opposite of a place like stopkill.com or whatever let me know through PM. I'd like to make a site that defends videogames as art and tries to make parents aware of what is really out there. Basically, a pro-videogame lobbying kind of thing.

I'm going to try and use my MPA contacts, professors at school, and maybe the gaming organization there to help also if the web interest seems like enough to get started.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']Who else thinks this is all a big fuss to go around the issue of BAD PARENTING?[/QUOTE]

All I am going to say is when personal responsibility is an issue and a politician is involved they tend to blame everyone other than the real problem. It tends to be liberal politicians more than conservatives and moderates that do that, but it isn't exclusive to just them at all.
 
[quote name='Ultimate Matt X']I may start a thread about this, but if anyone would be interested in helping me in starting a website that is kind of the opposite of a place like stopkill.com or whatever let me know through PM. I'd like to make a site that defends videogames as art and tries to make parents aware of what is really out there. Basically, a pro-videogame lobbying kind of thing.

I'm going to try and use my MPA contacts, professors at school, and maybe the gaming organization there to help also if the web interest seems like enough to get started.[/QUOTE]

I may be able to help from a site design standpoint (visual design, not code). I'd love to help out, I don't want the government regulating my hobby.

And to the person who mentioned the DVD aisle: I hope we get there one day. But the general public know that there are DVDs for kids and DVDs that their kids should not see. If we can ever get that sort of mindset and awareness out there about games it will be a different situation.
 
[quote name='megashock5']I may be able to help from a site design standpoint (visual design, not code). I'd love to help out, I don't want the government regulating my hobby.

And to the person who mentioned the DVD aisle: I hope we get there one day. But the general public know that there are DVDs for kids and DVDs that their kids should not see. If we can ever get that sort of mindset and awareness out there about games it will be a different situation.[/QUOTE]

The fact is that people in general are stupid. People know they should put on their seat belt, but they don't. People know they should lock their doors, but they don't. They know they shouldn't smoke, but they don't. You could have GTA with a large glittery label that said TITS and ASS in 3D and some dumbass parent will still buy it for their kid because they march to the beat of their own drummer. I have always lived by this saying..... "I cannot be responsible for your stupidty."

If people aren't intelligent to understand what GTA is then it really won't matter what anyone does. People can only claim ignorance so much.

I do think that separating M and AO rated titles from T and under is a decent idea though. Then again, we have Parental Advisories on Eminem records yet it never fails that some 12 year old kid is listening to it.
 
[quote name='lord_ebonstone']I find it ironic and especially telling that you'd post this editorial when, two news items down, we read:



Just like this 'scandal' is all about sales for Rockstar, and all about votes for the fuckwits screaming 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN,' it's all about associate clicks for this website.

Let's face it. This whole thing isn't about Morality, or Law, or Trust, or any other Big Philosophical Word worthy of blathering, self-indulgent ruminations. The scandal, like any other, is about greed, pure and simple.

This scandal will be milked by all the parties involved til it's dry, and little to nothing will change.[/QUOTE]

Did you see Cheapy respond saying

Ha ha, yeah, I realized that, but of course I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Hot Coffee or sex and violence in video games. The industry can and should continue to produce adult games, it just needs to be smarter about how it and be better prepared to handle the opposition.
Click to expand...

Anyways, I remember a newscast awhile back about violence in video games and the rating system. They actually focused on the NFL Blitz series a lot and I think a little bit on GTA3. They talked to parents while they watched their kids playing NFL Blitz. The parents were AMAZED that you could do late hits and continue beating on your opponent after the tackle. Then the newscaster pointed to the rating. But she didn't point to the one on the front of the cover. She pointed to the one in the lower right hand corner on the back of the box.

Naturally, the mother said something like "this is out of the way, there's no way I would have known it was there." Of course, I'm reminded of the even SMALLER rating on the back of movies...and yet people know that it's there. At least video games have it on the FRONT as well. They only showed one family in this newscast, which makes the cynic in me think that they couldn't find that many people who would be unable to find the big "Rated M" or "Rated T" in two separate locations on the box.
 
I agree that parents should set guidelines for what their kids play, and any parent who lets their kid play GTA3/VC/SA shouldn't really care about these additional sex scenes. However, the ESRB has a duty to place an appropriate label on a game, so that a parent CAN make these decisions based on the games ratings.

This situation is bigger than GTA:SA and to me is more about developers not laying all of their cards on the table so that the ESRB can make the right decision (and when the ESRB makes the right decision and the correct rating is issued, governmental/parent group pressure gets taken off the industry). For this particular game, I think the rating standards are backwards, killing cops with baseball bats, running over civilians, etc are all much worse than a sex scene. And we can argue all day that the standards are backwards, but at the end of the day the ESRB must make decisions based on a set of standards and must be put in a position to make the correct recommendation for parents. This applies to E games and M games, if a game contains hidden content that only belongs in an AO game (as defined by the ESRB's standards) it needs to be rated as such, whether that game was rated E or M doesn't matter. If not what is to stop R* from releasing their next GTA as a T rated game (with tons of hidden M rated content) to hit a bigger audience, knowing full well that everyone and their brother will unlock it with their action replay AFTER their parents say it is ok for them to play a teen game? I had a TV in my room with video games since I was 12, I'm sure a lot of people here aren't much different, the only way for my parents to really control what I was playing at the time was to make sure that games I wasn't allowed to play weren't in the house. By hiding content game developers are not allowing parents to make the right decision.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The fact is that people in general are stupid. People know they should put on their seat belt, but they don't. People know they should lock their doors, but they don't. They know they shouldn't smoke, but they don't. You could have GTA with a large glittery label that said TITS and ASS in 3D and some dumbass parent will still buy it for their kid because they march to the beat of their own drummer. I have always lived by this saying..... "I cannot be responsible for your stupidty."

If people aren't intelligent to understand what GTA is then it really won't matter what anyone does. People can only claim ignorance so much.

I do think that separating M and AO rated titles from T and under is a decent idea though. Then again, we have Parental Advisories on Eminem records yet it never fails that some 12 year old kid is listening to it.[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you said. My point is that putting MK next to Spongebob in a section that's for kids is doing the opposite of helping the situation. That's giving them an excuse to claim ignorance, where that's the last thing we should be doing.
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']Five minutes?






Heh, we all know it takes little time on the PC version. I'm talking PS2 version here. Wait, now it's my turn to use this retarded smiley :roll:

No but seriously, I hate rockstar for a lot of things besides their games. I think they fucked up big time - not the ESRB. They shouldn't have left that shit in the goddamn game if they weren't going to use it and pop on an AO rating. Rockstar can suck my balls because they just gave opponents of the industry a lot of ammo.

So why don't you go over to that corner and sit for a while to think about how there are people who disagree with you: not because of your silly little misconceptions, but for tangible reasons.[/QUOTE]

It's time you pull your head out of your ass and come to terms with the fact that just because a magazine or news media report says something doesn't mean it's true. Maybe when you get a little older you will understand.

I've unlocked the mod many times on many saves for the ps2 and it doesn't take several hours. You would have to have no arms or legs and be retarded for it to take several hours. Not to mention that once you enter the codes, if you use the code method, it gets saved and you don't have to enter them again.

Please inform yourself before being an idiot and talking about something you know nothing about.
 
[quote name='kev']
Thank you Cheapy for a logical response to this. I am so tired of reading the opinions of 15 year olds who just keep retyping "parents, parents, parents" without having a clue of what the real issue is here. Congress has said many times that if the industry doesn't regulate itself, they will. The game should have been AO from the beginning, regardless of "hot coffee" in my opinion. If R* wasn't happy with not being able to advertise on MTV so all the 14 year olds could see it, they should have changed the game.

People, ultimately, can blame whoever they want as it really doesn't matter who is at fault. The fact is kids are playing the game that shouldn't be and Congress wants to get the points for "fixing" it. Until the industry stops blaming parents (who yes, are at fault but so what?) and actually gets something done, Congress is going to keep rattling the cage.[/QUOTE]
I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't point out most of these problems ARE the parents' fault. No sarcasm here, and to head off any ridiculous argument, I'm in my mid 30's, not my teens. And while I'm at it, I might mention I have raised a child. I am not someone screaming at my team from the safety of my arm-chair, I've quarterbacked these plays.

The fact is, parents are the be all and end all of children. These days many people think parenting is, and should be, no more onerous that owning a pet. Feed it, shelter it, maybe play fetch with it for a half hour a day or so, and that's the end of your responsibility. I'm sorry to say, that ain't so. Parenting is an incredibly dfemanding job.

When you are actually PARENTING, your kids are no more than 10 feet away from you at all times (excepting when they are at school). They do their homework, you help. Thjey watch TV, you choose the channel and show. They use the computer, you are right there supervising. In my immediate neighborhood, there are many families with children. You can IMMEDIATELY tell the parents from the "caretakers".

Take the two first generation Vietnamese and one first generation Mexican families near me. There is no time when you see the kids, and not at least one parent. Ever. Not at the park. Not on the street. Not in the car. It simply doesn't happen. Their children are intelligent, do well at school, and unfailingly polite. They have never been in any sort of trouble, and likely never will be.

Now look at the "caretakers" who want their social lives. Not ONE if their children is as well behaved as even the MOST unruly child from the above families.

A lot of people, typically those who don;t want the burden of actually raising children, are quick to point out that children aren't under their control ALL the time, and that even if they DO do all the right things, children may still end up as criminals.

I'll concede that some people are just born with bad wiring. However, the odds of that happening are greatly reduced with good parenting. I'd be willing to bet in borderline kids the parenting makes ALL the difference.

In any event, just because a precaution doesn;t work deosn't obviate the need for it. Seatbelts MIGHT not save your life, but the probably will. Warning labels MIGHT not keep people from smoking, but they probably will. And good parenting practices MIGHT not prevent your kid from comitting heinous acts of violence, but it probably will.

No then, let's turn away from the issue of blame, at look more at what should change. Should we regulate the sales of games to minors? ABSOLUTELY. Should we be sure ratings are fairly, and strictly enforeced? ABSOLUTELY. Will that solve the problem? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Being cheapass gamers, we've all spent our share of time at B&Ms that sell games. Now I can't speak for everyone, but the following holds true for me and most people I've spoken with. For every time I've seen an underaged person buy a game they really should be allowed to, I've seen SEVERAL parents buy Death Simulator 500 (now with EXTRA dural matter(tm)) for little Johnny or Julia.

The fact is, all the regulation in the universe will have very little impact until we teach parents and politicians two simple things. 1: What the ESRB rating system is, and what it means. 2: That games are NOT just for children anymore, and there is thus no longer a reasonable expectation that any given game will be suitable for children.

Finally, onto the issue of GTA being given a rating of AO. I think that's absolute crap. The ESRB rating system is clearly modeled after the MPAA ratings system, and thus has the same general categories. Giving GTA the highes possible rating, the equivalent of an X, when it contains nothing worse than can be seen in an R rated late night movie is simply silly.

Rant mode off.
 
[quote name='megashock5']No, how about YOU give ME a break. I'm not talking about the DVD aisle, or even the game section. The toy section of both Kohl's and Wal-Mart (repeat TOY SECTION. You know the section that basically screams "this is the part of the store for kids!") have plug-n-play games of Ms. Pac-Man, Sonic, Spongebob, and Mortal Kombat. All together, grouped together. Again, not the games section, the fucking TOY SECTION. At least in the DVD aisle the childrens' stuff is grouped together, not mixed in with the 'R' titles.

No one believes more than I do that parents need to know what their kids are buying/playing. But we have an uphill battle (for whatever reason) in trying to educate them to look for the big friggin' letter on the box. Putting MK right next to Spongebob in the TOY SECTION of a store just reinforces Jane Soccermom's incorrect belief that all games are for kids. And that's not helping gamers at all.[/QUOTE]

The giving a break comment wasn't directed towards you - so much as it was towards people who are idiots regarding the rating system. They get the kit kat bar, you don't.

And grouping items together when they are clearly marked differently in my opinion, is a sad excuse for being poorly educated. While I can see your point, I hardly condone nor see the logic in the act of grouping something like mortal kombat, clearly labeled mature, next to something such as spongebob - a clear children's icon.

In other words - this crap regarding games has been going on for YEARS. The excuse of "I didn't know this is rated M!" is such a pathetic one.
 
[quote name='Revenantae']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't point out most of these problems ARE the parents' fault. No sarcasm here, and to head off any ridiculous argument, I'm in my mid 30's, not my teens. And while I'm at it, I might mention I have raised a child. I am not someone screaming at my team from the safety of my arm-chair, I've quarterbacked these plays.

The fact is, parents are the be all and end all of children. These days many people think parenting is, and should be, no more onerous that owning a pet. Feed it, shelter it, maybe play fetch with it for a half hour a day or so, and that's the end of your responsibility. I'm sorry to say, that ain't so. Parenting is an incredibly dfemanding job.

When you are actually PARENTING, your kids are no more than 10 feet away from you at all times (excepting when they are at school). They do their homework, you help. Thjey watch TV, you choose the channel and show. They use the computer, you are right there supervising. In my immediate neighborhood, there are many families with children. You can IMMEDIATELY tell the parents from the "caretakers".

Take the two first generation Vietnamese and one first generation Mexican families near me. There is no time when you see the kids, and not at least one parent. Ever. Not at the park. Not on the street. Not in the car. It simply doesn't happen. Their children are intelligent, do well at school, and unfailingly polite. They have never been in any sort of trouble, and likely never will be.

Now look at the "caretakers" who want their social lives. Not ONE if their children is as well behaved as even the MOST unruly child from the above families.

A lot of people, typically those who don;t want the burden of actually raising children, are quick to point out that children aren't under their control ALL the time, and that even if they DO do all the right things, children may still end up as criminals.

I'll concede that some people are just born with bad wiring. However, the odds of that happening are greatly reduced with good parenting. I'd be willing to bet in borderline kids the parenting makes ALL the difference.

In any event, just because a precaution doesn;t work deosn't obviate the need for it. Seatbelts MIGHT not save your life, but the probably will. Warning labels MIGHT not keep people from smoking, but they probably will. And good parenting practices MIGHT not prevent your kid from comitting heinous acts of violence, but it probably will.

No then, let's turn away from the issue of blame, at look more at what should change. Should we regulate the sales of games to minors? ABSOLUTELY. Should we be sure ratings are fairly, and strictly enforeced? ABSOLUTELY. Will that solve the problem? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Being cheapass gamers, we've all spent our share of time at B&Ms that sell games. Now I can't speak for everyone, but the following holds true for me and most people I've spoken with. For every time I've seen an underaged person buy a game they really should be allowed to, I've seen SEVERAL parents buy Death Simulator 500 (now with EXTRA dural matter(tm)) for little Johnny or Julia.

The fact is, all the regulation in the universe will have very little impact until we teach parents and politicians two simple things. 1: What the ESRB rating system is, and what it means. 2: That games are NOT just for children anymore, and there is thus no longer a reasonable expectation that any given game will be suitable for children.

Finally, onto the issue of GTA being given a rating of AO. I think that's absolute crap. The ESRB rating system is clearly modeled after the MPAA ratings system, and thus has the same general categories. Giving GTA the highes possible rating, the equivalent of an X, when it contains nothing worse than can be seen in an R rated late night movie is simply silly.

Rant mode off.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
 
[quote name='Scrubking']It's time you pull your head out of your ass and come to terms with the fact that just because a magazine or news media report says something doesn't mean it's true. Maybe when you get a little older you will understand.

I've unlocked the mod many times on many saves for the ps2 and it doesn't take several hours. You would have to have no arms or legs and be retarded for it to take several hours. Not to mention that once you enter the codes, if you use the code method, it gets saved and you don't have to enter them again.

Please inform yourself before being an idiot and talking about something you know nothing about.[/QUOTE]

For future reference, keep in mind that Scrubking has never shown any indication of changing his opinion based on something silly like the news. For him, the news is only valid if it reinforces what he already thinks.

Back to your regularly scheduled 'discourse'.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']It's time you pull your head out of your ass and come to terms with the fact that just because a magazine or news media report says something doesn't mean it's true. Maybe when you get a little older you will understand.

I've unlocked the mod many times on many saves for the ps2 and it doesn't take several hours. You would have to have no arms or legs and be retarded for it to take several hours. Not to mention that once you enter the codes, if you use the code method, it gets saved and you don't have to enter them again.

Please inform yourself before being an idiot and talking about something you know nothing about.[/QUOTE]

Let's see. I'm a 13 year old boy and want to see some pixelated sex.

1. I have to get to the damn part of the game.

2. I have to enter in the code

3. Pump up and perform what is required to perform the sex scene.

You have to put in a lot of time - more than just five minutes - to get this shit to work. You need to go out of your damn way - and the fact that you did it yourself makes me laugh a little inside.

At any rate - my other points still stand, and the former to a degree. Oh, and notice how I formed an argument without the insults? This next one isn't an insult, so much as it is a suggestion.

Grow up if you want to be taken seriously.

But I can see you coming back, face contorted and fingers frantically typing away in a voracious manner, in an effort to argue over a topic which we both will have to agree to disagree on.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']For future reference, keep in mind that Scrubking has never shown any indication of changing his opinion based on something silly like the news. For him, the news is only valid if it reinforces what he already thinks.

Back to your regularly scheduled 'discourse'.[/QUOTE]

It's that goddamn liberal media - it can't be trusted ;)
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']Let's see. I'm a 13 year old boy and want to see some pixelated sex.

1. I have to get to the damn part of the game.

2. I have to enter in the code

3. Pump up and perform what is required to perform the sex scene.

You have to put in a lot of time - more than just five minutes - to get this shit to work. You need to go out of your damn way - and the fact that you did it yourself makes me laugh a little inside.

At any rate - my other points still stand, and the former to a degree. Oh, and notice how I formed an argument without the insults? This next one isn't an insult, so much as it is a suggestion.

Grow up if you want to be taken seriously.

But I can see you coming back, face contorted and fingers frantically typing away in a voracious manner, in an effort to argue over a topic which we both will have to agree to disagree on.[/QUOTE]

When you play the minigame and unlock it for yourself then come and post about how long it takes. Until then do us all a favor and stop talking about stuff you clearly know nothing about.
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']The giving a break comment wasn't directed towards you - so much as it was towards people who are idiots regarding the rating system. They get the kit kat bar, you don't.

And grouping items together when they are clearly marked differently in my opinion, is a sad excuse for being poorly educated. While I can see your point, I hardly condone nor see the logic in the act of grouping something like mortal kombat, clearly labeled mature, next to something such as spongebob - a clear children's icon.

In other words - this crap regarding games has been going on for YEARS. The excuse of "I didn't know this is rated M!" is such a pathetic one.[/QUOTE]

My apologies then. I think are opinions are much closer than I originally thought.

I agree that the time for 'I didn't know' is over. Parents should know what games come into the home, same for movies, cd's and books (and yes, I am a parent).

My point was putting MK next to something clearly made for kids, in the chidren's area of the store, is almost giving an excuse to say 'I didn't know.'
 
[quote name='Revenantae']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't point out most of these problems ARE the parents' fault. No sarcasm here, and to head off any ridiculous argument, I'm in my mid 30's, not my teens. And while I'm at it, I might mention I have raised a child. I am not someone screaming at my team from the safety of my arm-chair, I've quarterbacked these plays.

The fact is, parents are the be all and end all of children. These days many people think parenting is, and should be, no more onerous that owning a pet. Feed it, shelter it, maybe play fetch with it for a half hour a day or so, and that's the end of your responsibility. I'm sorry to say, that ain't so. Parenting is an incredibly dfemanding job.

When you are actually PARENTING, your kids are no more than 10 feet away from you at all times (excepting when they are at school). They do their homework, you help. Thjey watch TV, you choose the channel and show. They use the computer, you are right there supervising. In my immediate neighborhood, there are many families with children. You can IMMEDIATELY tell the parents from the "caretakers".

Take the two first generation Vietnamese and one first generation Mexican families near me. There is no time when you see the kids, and not at least one parent. Ever. Not at the park. Not on the street. Not in the car. It simply doesn't happen. Their children are intelligent, do well at school, and unfailingly polite. They have never been in any sort of trouble, and likely never will be.

Now look at the "caretakers" who want their social lives. Not ONE if their children is as well behaved as even the MOST unruly child from the above families.

A lot of people, typically those who don;t want the burden of actually raising children, are quick to point out that children aren't under their control ALL the time, and that even if they DO do all the right things, children may still end up as criminals.

I'll concede that some people are just born with bad wiring. However, the odds of that happening are greatly reduced with good parenting. I'd be willing to bet in borderline kids the parenting makes ALL the difference.

In any event, just because a precaution doesn;t work deosn't obviate the need for it. Seatbelts MIGHT not save your life, but the probably will. Warning labels MIGHT not keep people from smoking, but they probably will. And good parenting practices MIGHT not prevent your kid from comitting heinous acts of violence, but it probably will.

No then, let's turn away from the issue of blame, at look more at what should change. Should we regulate the sales of games to minors? ABSOLUTELY. Should we be sure ratings are fairly, and strictly enforeced? ABSOLUTELY. Will that solve the problem? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Being cheapass gamers, we've all spent our share of time at B&Ms that sell games. Now I can't speak for everyone, but the following holds true for me and most people I've spoken with. For every time I've seen an underaged person buy a game they really should be allowed to, I've seen SEVERAL parents buy Death Simulator 500 (now with EXTRA dural matter(tm)) for little Johnny or Julia.

The fact is, all the regulation in the universe will have very little impact until we teach parents and politicians two simple things. 1: What the ESRB rating system is, and what it means. 2: That games are NOT just for children anymore, and there is thus no longer a reasonable expectation that any given game will be suitable for children.

Finally, onto the issue of GTA being given a rating of AO. I think that's absolute crap. The ESRB rating system is clearly modeled after the MPAA ratings system, and thus has the same general categories. Giving GTA the highes possible rating, the equivalent of an X, when it contains nothing worse than can be seen in an R rated late night movie is simply silly.

Rant mode off.[/QUOTE]

First sir, I would like to state that if you weren't already married, I would have your children.

Second - your last statement makes amazing sense and has caused me to retract my previous statement regarding AO GTA.

I couldn't agree with you any more. Parenting is a goddamn full time job, which is why I am avoiding it at the moment. I salute anyone who can perform that full time job effectively and raise healthy, well adjusted kids.
 
The senators need to get something into their heads, that gamers are not, on the average, kids. The average age of a gamer is 30 years old, while senators think of 10 to 15 year olds as the average gamer. Hell, even 1 out of 5 gamers is over 50 years old. When Mortal Kombat caused such a stir over 10 years ago, this thinking would be more correct, but gamers have grown up. They're getting married. They're having kids. They're playing games with those kids. They're becoming responsible adults with the knowledge of games that's needed to prevent these games from getting into their kids' hands. They either know from personal experience what's in these M rated games and know that they don't want their five year old playing GTA like what parents seem to be doing. The average age of a game purchaser is 37 years old. 92% of parents are present at the time that games are bought or rented. So why do they neglect their natural responsibility to know what their kid is doing? Time? Parents should always make time to be a parent and talk to their kids, play games with their kid, or whatever so that they can make sure that it's nothing they don't want their kid doing. The ESRB is doing their job, to make available the information about a game and a list of content that let's the parent decide if that game is right for their kid. When the parent ignores it and then finds out that it contains violence and sex, they should blame themselves and make sure to pay attention to the vast amount of info that the ESRB makes available to every person that purchases these games. It's become apparent over the past few years that blaming themselves has not become an option for anyone and that suits, senators, and false accusations have become the options to "solving" this problem. I for one can't wait until the videogame generation takes over and puts some damn sense into these people and tells them to learn about what they don't understand or shut the hell up. If you want to see where I got the facts, I got them from the ESA themselves from their 2005 Essential Facts release.
 
I do think that separating M and AO rated titles from T and under is a decent idea though. Then again, we have Parental Advisories on Eminem records yet it never fails that some 12 year old kid is listening to it.
Click to expand...

They don't have to seperate movies. Best Buy has giant stacks of new releases with a huge display that says UNRATED! NEW SCENES!.

The key here is doing something to educate parents who don't get it. I'm not sure how much more they can possibly do.

Anyone know what the MPAA did when the ratings system was first implemented?
 
[quote name='Scrubking']When you play the minigame and unlock it for yourself then come and post about how long it takes. Until then do us all a favor and stop talking about stuff you clearly know nothing about.[/QUOTE]

I've played a good 8 hours of GTA III and have watched someone play through the entire GTA San Andreas game while I was playing Metroid Prime 2.

I have seen the game.

If I had a damn controller in my hands - one could say that I've played it.

I'm not going to sit down and waste my time on a series which I've played enough to know I won't like.

When you stop coming up with strawman arguments and come up with something for yourself, post about how long it takes. Until then do us all a favor and stop talking about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

And read the paper daily - you need an education.


-----------------

On another note - it annoys me to see how much time these senators can spend fighting this game when so many other issues are present.
 
[quote name='Revenantae']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't point out most of these problems ARE the parents' fault. No sarcasm here, and to head off any ridiculous argument, I'm in my mid 30's, not my teens. And while I'm at it, I might mention I have raised a child. I am not someone screaming at my team from the safety of my arm-chair, I've quarterbacked these plays.

The fact is, parents are the be all and end all of children. These days many people think parenting is, and should be, no more onerous that owning a pet. Feed it, shelter it, maybe play fetch with it for a half hour a day or so, and that's the end of your responsibility. I'm sorry to say, that ain't so. Parenting is an incredibly dfemanding job.

When you are actually PARENTING, your kids are no more than 10 feet away from you at all times (excepting when they are at school). They do their homework, you help. Thjey watch TV, you choose the channel and show. They use the computer, you are right there supervising. In my immediate neighborhood, there are many families with children. You can IMMEDIATELY tell the parents from the "caretakers".

Take the two first generation Vietnamese and one first generation Mexican families near me. There is no time when you see the kids, and not at least one parent. Ever. Not at the park. Not on the street. Not in the car. It simply doesn't happen. Their children are intelligent, do well at school, and unfailingly polite. They have never been in any sort of trouble, and likely never will be.

Now look at the "caretakers" who want their social lives. Not ONE if their children is as well behaved as even the MOST unruly child from the above families.

A lot of people, typically those who don;t want the burden of actually raising children, are quick to point out that children aren't under their control ALL the time, and that even if they DO do all the right things, children may still end up as criminals.

I'll concede that some people are just born with bad wiring. However, the odds of that happening are greatly reduced with good parenting. I'd be willing to bet in borderline kids the parenting makes ALL the difference.

In any event, just because a precaution doesn;t work deosn't obviate the need for it. Seatbelts MIGHT not save your life, but the probably will. Warning labels MIGHT not keep people from smoking, but they probably will. And good parenting practices MIGHT not prevent your kid from comitting heinous acts of violence, but it probably will.

No then, let's turn away from the issue of blame, at look more at what should change. Should we regulate the sales of games to minors? ABSOLUTELY. Should we be sure ratings are fairly, and strictly enforeced? ABSOLUTELY. Will that solve the problem? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Being cheapass gamers, we've all spent our share of time at B&Ms that sell games. Now I can't speak for everyone, but the following holds true for me and most people I've spoken with. For every time I've seen an underaged person buy a game they really should be allowed to, I've seen SEVERAL parents buy Death Simulator 500 (now with EXTRA dural matter(tm)) for little Johnny or Julia.

The fact is, all the regulation in the universe will have very little impact until we teach parents and politicians two simple things. 1: What the ESRB rating system is, and what it means. 2: That games are NOT just for children anymore, and there is thus no longer a reasonable expectation that any given game will be suitable for children.

Finally, onto the issue of GTA being given a rating of AO. I think that's absolute crap. The ESRB rating system is clearly modeled after the MPAA ratings system, and thus has the same general categories. Giving GTA the highes possible rating, the equivalent of an X, when it contains nothing worse than can be seen in an R rated late night movie is simply silly.

Rant mode off.[/QUOTE]

:bow:
 
[quote name='Revenantae']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't point out most of these problems ARE the parents' fault. No sarcasm here, and to head off any ridiculous argument, I'm in my mid 30's, not my teens. And while I'm at it, I might mention I have raised a child. I am not someone screaming at my team from the safety of my arm-chair, I've quarterbacked these plays.

The fact is, parents are the be all and end all of children. These days many people think parenting is, and should be, no more onerous that owning a pet. Feed it, shelter it, maybe play fetch with it for a half hour a day or so, and that's the end of your responsibility. I'm sorry to say, that ain't so. Parenting is an incredibly dfemanding job.

When you are actually PARENTING, your kids are no more than 10 feet away from you at all times (excepting when they are at school). They do their homework, you help. Thjey watch TV, you choose the channel and show. They use the computer, you are right there supervising. In my immediate neighborhood, there are many families with children. You can IMMEDIATELY tell the parents from the "caretakers".

Take the two first generation Vietnamese and one first generation Mexican families near me. There is no time when you see the kids, and not at least one parent. Ever. Not at the park. Not on the street. Not in the car. It simply doesn't happen. Their children are intelligent, do well at school, and unfailingly polite. They have never been in any sort of trouble, and likely never will be.

Now look at the "caretakers" who want their social lives. Not ONE if their children is as well behaved as even the MOST unruly child from the above families.

A lot of people, typically those who don;t want the burden of actually raising children, are quick to point out that children aren't under their control ALL the time, and that even if they DO do all the right things, children may still end up as criminals.

I'll concede that some people are just born with bad wiring. However, the odds of that happening are greatly reduced with good parenting. I'd be willing to bet in borderline kids the parenting makes ALL the difference.

In any event, just because a precaution doesn;t work deosn't obviate the need for it. Seatbelts MIGHT not save your life, but the probably will. Warning labels MIGHT not keep people from smoking, but they probably will. And good parenting practices MIGHT not prevent your kid from comitting heinous acts of violence, but it probably will.

No then, let's turn away from the issue of blame, at look more at what should change. Should we regulate the sales of games to minors? ABSOLUTELY. Should we be sure ratings are fairly, and strictly enforeced? ABSOLUTELY. Will that solve the problem? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Being cheapass gamers, we've all spent our share of time at B&Ms that sell games. Now I can't speak for everyone, but the following holds true for me and most people I've spoken with. For every time I've seen an underaged person buy a game they really should be allowed to, I've seen SEVERAL parents buy Death Simulator 500 (now with EXTRA dural matter(tm)) for little Johnny or Julia.

The fact is, all the regulation in the universe will have very little impact until we teach parents and politicians two simple things. 1: What the ESRB rating system is, and what it means. 2: That games are NOT just for children anymore, and there is thus no longer a reasonable expectation that any given game will be suitable for children.

Finally, onto the issue of GTA being given a rating of AO. I think that's absolute crap. The ESRB rating system is clearly modeled after the MPAA ratings system, and thus has the same general categories. Giving GTA the highes possible rating, the equivalent of an X, when it contains nothing worse than can be seen in an R rated late night movie is simply silly.

Rant mode off.[/QUOTE]

Please replace the front page rant with this.
 
[quote name='SkyGheNe']I've played a good 8 hours of GTA III and have watched someone play through the entire GTA San Andreas game while I was playing Metroid Prime 2.

I have seen the game.

If I had a damn controller in my hands - one could say that I've played it.

I'm not going to sit down and waste my time on a series which I've played enough to know I won't like.

When you stop coming up with strawman arguments and come up with something for yourself, post about how long it takes. Until then do us all a favor and stop talking about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

And read the paper daily - you need an education.


-----------------

On another note - it annoys me to see how much time these senators can spend fighting this game when so many other issues are present.[/QUOTE]

Seriously. This isn't gamefaqs. You just admitted that you haven't played or unlocked the minigame yet you continue to blab away. Shut up already.
 
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