Is piracy killing PC game market?

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Piracy is bad, mm'kay? This message brought to you by the RIA...No. MPA...? Nope... Actually, it is brought to you by a couple of the guys from id Software, particularly Kevin Cloud - Executive Producer of ET:QW.
...
A brief paraphrase to save you from reading the lecture if you don't want to: Because PC games can be pirated, stores can't bet on how many they'll sell, so they don't buy them from publishers. Since publishers aren't making money on the PC end, they push developers to move towards consoles, which sell like crazy comparatively due to their innate copy protection. Developers take this on happily because they're not anxious to make games that nobody plays. And so the cycle continues, thanks to those horrible, vicious pirates. Arrrgggh, matey!


http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/08/08/piracy_killed_the_PC_game_star/

Could this have been the terrible secret of Monkey Island?

Seriously, I think his point is semi-valid. However I'll never support a big-brother delivery system like Steam.

The reason I started migrating to console games was because it's an easy setup every time - instead of all of the configuration/video card installation/patch work involved in playing PC games. Plus consoles have caught up to/surpassed most PC rigs - IMO the only games you need to play on a PC are the RTS (or MMORPG if you're into that stuff :razz: ).
 
[quote name='camoor']
Could this have been the terrible secret of Monkey Island?
[/QUOTE]

Hey. Shut up. :(

Since I finally played MI1/2 in the last month, I went through a pretty terrible withdrawel period, given that Gilbert didn't pen the true ending to the trilogy. Especially when that fucker interviewed with Gamespot about a month ago talking about how he'd love to do it.

(And yes I know there's 3 and 4, I'll play through them again soon, right after I finish the Dig and Fate of Atlantis.)
 
[quote name='camoor']

The reason I started migrating to console games was because it's an easy setup every time - instead of all of the configuration/video card installation/patch work involved in playing PC games. Plus consoles have caught up to/surpassed most PC rigs - IMO the only games you need to play on a PC are the RTS (or MMORPG if you're into that stuff :razz: ).[/QUOTE]

This is why I never played games on a PC. Too much garabage to deal with. You get a new computer and you put your older game in and it runs like its on speed. Let me find another program to slow it down. There was never a really good computer controller....although now there seems to finally be a few. With my consoles I know how things will work everytime. I think consoles do better because most people don't want to deal with the hassle of computer gaming.
 
I think the lack of variety is more of an issue... hopefully MS really is committed to reviving the PC with Vista...
 
I think the ease of use and the power of consoles in this generation led to the decline more than anything. Piracy is huge in GBA games and other console systems and those legit markets are still flourishing.

There are some game types that still are done better on PCs (FPS, MMORPG, and RTS) so there will still be a need for PC gaming for years to come. With the exception of Elite Force on the PC, I play more console than PC games. Also, there are some things you just can't do on console (or not as well anyway). Skins, maps, game mods....

But for a twitch gaming fix, consoles really cut into PC sales. Sports games and action games in general are WAY better on consoles. There isn't one PC game (that isn't a console port) I can think of that is close to something like Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Tekken 5, Zelda...

I'm looking at my PC games and most are FPS or RTS, with the odd graphic adventure thrown in.
 
The PC market is dead because of Piracy and expense. Its too expensive to buy a $500 dollar graphics card every 2 years to play the hot game and the only profitable game on the PC is the MMO.

PCs just never got standardized... and because so, it never got locked up for gaming.

Think about it, if you had the ability to easily download 360 games from your 360 onto your 360 for free... would you buy 360 games in a store? Hell no.
 
Wrong!!! The PC market is dead because of developers being dumb.

1. I've yet to download a single patch to any PS2 game I've ever owned, yet I can't play one descent PC game without patching it out the arse.

2. The games I buy come in a box and then have on average 4-5 cd's sometimes more sometimes less. These CD's are normally in paper sleeves and guess what they get lost. Wouldn't it save them time, money, and shipping to put the damn games on a dvd and in a dvd case. Don't even try to argue that people have a 4ghz processor but only a 12x cdrom drive. This point is invalid for all games above hoyle casino.

3. My Playstation never crashes why do my games ocassional do the not responding or completly black out?

As a software programmer I understand the difficulty of writing code thats compatible with a lot of different devices. I also understand that the OS and competition among several differnt software applications result in some error. All that aside you have the options for superior sound, video, and controls on a PC, yet the console works better. I blame the developers 1st, the operating system 2nd, and piracy like 103rd.
 
[quote name='NoRain']Wrong!!! The PC market is dead because of developers being dumb. [/quote]

lol

[quote name='NoRain'] 1. I've yet to download a single patch to any PS2 game I've ever owned, yet I can't play one descent PC game without patching it out the arse.[/quote]
You would if all PS2s had different processors, ram, hard drives and graphics cards.

[quote name='NoRain'] 2. The games I buy come in a box and then have on average 4-5 cd's sometimes more sometimes less. These CD's are normally in paper sleeves and guess what they get lost. Wouldn't it save them time, money, and shipping to put the damn games on a dvd and in a dvd case. Don't even try to argue that people have a 4ghz processor but only a 12x cdrom drive. This point is invalid for all games above hoyle casino.[/quote]
Most people still only have CD drives. I know at least 5 off the top of my head, and they're more Hardcore PC than me.

[quote name='NoRain'] 3. My Playstation never crashes why do my games ocassional do the not responding or completly black out? [/quote]
See question 1. Since they're pretty much the same.

[quote name='NoRain'] As a software programmer I understand the difficulty of writing code thats compatible with a lot of different devices. I also understand that the OS and competition among several differnt software applications result in some error. All that aside you have the options for superior sound, video, and controls on a PC, yet the console works better. I blame the developers 1st, the operating system 2nd, and piracy like 103rd.[/quote]
As a Software Programmer, you know nothing about software or compatibility. You have failed.
 
[quote name='NoRain']Wrong!!! The PC market is dead because of developers being dumb.
[/quote]
:roll: Yep, it's those pesky developers intentionally doing things to cause people to buy fewer PC games.

1. I've yet to download a single patch to any PS2 game I've ever owned, yet I can't play one descent PC game without patching it out the arse.
Do you realize that every single PS2 console is the same? They are standardized. There is no such thing as a PC standard, and as such there are too many variables to ensure that every single game will work with every single system combination. Use some common sense here.

2. The games I buy come in a box and then have on average 4-5 cd's sometimes more sometimes less. These CD's are normally in paper sleeves and guess what they get lost. Wouldn't it save them time, money, and shipping to put the damn games on a dvd and in a dvd case. Don't even try to argue that people have a 4ghz processor but only a 12x cdrom drive. This point is invalid for all games above hoyle casino.
Here's a novel idea. Not everyone owns a DVD drive. Marketing stictly on DVD alone will alienate a large portion of your market. Granted almost ALL new computers have a DVD drive nowadays, this simply isn't the case across the board. Again, there is no standard. Johnny PotentialBuyer could have a kickass PC and not a DVD drive and because of this you've just lost a sale.

3. My Playstation never crashes why do my games ocassional do the not responding or completly black out?
See above. A PC is not a standardized piece of hardware. Every system has too many different variables to ensure things will work across the board.
As a software programmer I understand the difficulty of writing code thats compatible with a lot of different devices. I also understand that the OS and competition among several differnt software applications result in some error.
Credentials? You are a software programmer yet you can't seem to comprehend how different a PC is from that of a game console? Have you ever developed a single game in your life?

All that aside you have the options for superior sound, video, and controls on a PC, yet the console works better. I blame the developers 1st, the operating system 2nd, and piracy like 103rd.
Your "blame" on the developers is completely unwarranted. I want you to try developing any piece of software and guarantee it will run on any PC with any combination of hardware and software that is present on every PC. Every piece of software can and will have problems.
 
The problem with PC games is not piracy. Never has been and never will. The problem with PC gaming is that to play new games, you need to invest in at least a new video card about once a year, year and a half.

Not to mention that most PC games are rushed to market with the intent on patching all the crap that doesn't work later. Most PC games are beta tested by gamers, not QA departments.
 
PC gaming is expensive... I mean, these developers are creating more powerful engines everyday but to them there's no limit on the hardware. I think they could do well to spend more time optimizing a engine than building a new one so often.

HL2 came out two years ago and only now you find a sub $100 GPU that'll run it fairly well. But more importantly, HL2 Episode 1 shows that with tweaking they can make the game look better, run smoother, and use a less powerful GPU.
 
[quote name='lebowsky']The problem with PC games is not piracy. Never has been and never will. The problem with PC gaming is that to play new games, you need to invest in at least a new video card about once a year, year and a half.

Not to mention that most PC games are rushed to market with the intent on patching all the crap that doesn't work later. Most PC games are beta tested by gamers, not QA departments.[/quote]

Plus, like I said above, unless you play MMORPG, RTS or FPS every other genre is done better on consoles.
 
piracy is a big part of the pc gaming problem. it's easy to download a pc game, but to do the same for a console game... hell i don't even know how :D
 
[quote name='tehweezner']piracy is a big part of the pc gaming problem. it's easy to download a pc game, but to do the same for a console game... hell i don't even know how :D[/quote]

People do the same for GBA games all the time. They download it, run it on an emulator, or upload it to a flash cart. It was a problem during the days of the Dreamcast also because the DC could boot burned games on CD-Rs.
 
You know what killed the PC market? Repetition and staleness, seeing the same old genres time and time again. Remember when stores had a pretty big PC game section, and you could find tons of different genres represented, and companies were trying new things all the time?

Now all you see is FPS, RTS, and the occasional Sports / Sim game mixed in. It also dosen't hurt that the 360 has taken almost every awesome FPS game at this point with equal graphics and hell, sometimes added modes, and that Live play is alot easier.

I used to be a hardcore PC Gamer, until it just got...well... bland. The only hot PC games I've seen people talk about from E3 were the same three genres - RTS, FPS, Sim game (though Spore could be classified as a God genre game, one that is sorely missed).

I forget though, every once in a blue moon we get a turn based strategy game.

I mean, I still like my PC, I can't play Sims 2 and Rise of Legends anyplace else, but it seems developers have even figured out how to put an RTS on the 360 now. Why should I take the $600 or so I'm going to need to upgrade to play Unreal Tournament 2007 when I could just buy a PS3? Or hope they port the game to the 360?
 
[quote name='tehweezner']piracy is a big part of the pc gaming problem. it's easy to download a pc game, but to do the same for a console game... hell i don't even know how :D[/quote]
It's not much harder, and overall costs are lower. I'm honestly surprised that console piracy isn't more rampant than it is.
 
i think its just easier to develop for consoles, they are consistent, and for the consumer they are much cheaper. even at its highest price of 300, the ps2 was still much much cheaper than any top of the line PC of the time, then or now.
 
[quote name='NoRain']Wrong!!! The PC market is dead because of developers being dumb.

1. I've yet to download a single patch to any PS2 game I've ever owned, yet I can't play one descent PC game without patching it out the arse.

2. The games I buy come in a box and then have on average 4-5 cd's sometimes more sometimes less. These CD's are normally in paper sleeves and guess what they get lost. Wouldn't it save them time, money, and shipping to put the damn games on a dvd and in a dvd case. Don't even try to argue that people have a 4ghz processor but only a 12x cdrom drive. This point is invalid for all games above hoyle casino.

3. My Playstation never crashes why do my games ocassional do the not responding or completly black out?

As a software programmer I understand the difficulty of writing code thats compatible with a lot of different devices. I also understand that the OS and competition among several differnt software applications result in some error. All that aside you have the options for superior sound, video, and controls on a PC, yet the console works better. I blame the developers 1st, the operating system 2nd, and piracy like 103rd.[/QUOTE]


you got to remember, not all pc's are the same, even if they are built from the same compnay line (HP)... many of us have our own systems built by ourselves. There is a high rate of compatibility issues because of the wide range of products out there. Someone might not be able to afford that 500 Nvidia card with 1 gig of ram on the card, so they go with a cheaper ATI card for 100 bucks...Developers do there best to make there software compatible with there programs/games and patch it when ever... When i do see a patch I usually see in the Notes something about AMD (like fixing an issue for using with AMD processors)....... With home systems, its the same hardware fixed for the next several years so developers know what they are up against.

I still say PC's are superior then whatever is out there.
 
People who download games were never going to buy them in the first place. Not condoning it, but it's kinda like not being able to take a pop/some candy into a theatre; yeah, you can stop me, but I'm not going to buy your fucking lobby food anyway.
 
Piracy killing the PC game market? HA! Crappy anti-copying protections like starforce and the like fucking up the stability of your PC are killing it. The PC market will never die but it is shrinking. It's too lucrative as you don't have to pay royalties to MS/SONY/Nintendo
 
Reality's Fringe;2103478 said:
People who download games were never going to buy them in the first place. Not condoning it, but it's kinda like not being able to take a pop/some candy into a theatre; yeah, you can stop me, but I'm not going to buy your fucking lobby food anyway.
Yeah, that's kinda how I feel about the whole music scene as well. I haven't downloaded anything since I graduated college cause it's a big pain in the ass now, but when I did score games, movies, music, etc off the network, it was that or I just never play, see, or hear them. I sure as hell wasn't going to buy them.

I don't know how "easy" game piracy is nowadays, but if I really liked stuff I downloaded illegally, I ended up buying it later on when it was feasible as having a real copy was generally more convenient.
 
Reality's Fringe;2103478 said:
People who download games were never going to buy them in the first place. Not condoning it, but it's kinda like not being able to take a pop/some candy into a theatre; yeah, you can stop me, but I'm not going to buy your fucking lobby food anyway.

Nonsense. I can remember when I fell into pirating games back in the Atari 800 days. Rather than buying a small number of researched game choices, I instead blew my whole leisure budget on blank media to store every single product that appeared for the machine. I've watched others repeat the process endlessly. It went from buy nothing but blank 5.25" floppies to buying nothing but blank 3.5" floppies to today's CD/DVD blanks.

From the 8-bit Atari era through the height of the Amiga, I was as bad as anyone when it came to copying games. This lead to indiscriminate collecting and tremendous time wasting on trying everything for myself instead of letting reviews and word of mouth winnow it down. I saw everything that came out but how much did I actually enjoy along the way. In retrospect I believe it was far less than if I'd been restricted to more selective purchases.
 
Reality's Fringe;2103478 said:
People who download games were never going to buy them in the first place. Not condoning it, but it's kinda like not being able to take a pop/some candy into a theatre; yeah, you can stop me, but I'm not going to buy your fucking lobby food anyway.


I would suggest this- those of us who break over $140,000 a year get put in the "non-Ghetto" category- without copy protection. The rest of the world then should have to do online registration. The "no way! I would never buy it anyway" is bullshit. I am willing to best $100 in cold hard cash that the majority of people on CAG if they could get their games for free, they would do it regardless of how- because most of those people are under the age of 21 and poor. Most of the people's wants on this site are greater than their means to meet their wants.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Nonsense. I can remember when I fell into pirating games back in the Atari 800 days. Rather than buying a small number of researched game choices, I instead blew my whole leisure budget on blank media to store every single product that appeared for the machine. I've watched others repeat the process endlessly. It went from buy nothing but blank 5.25" floppies to buying nothing but blank 3.5" floppies to today's CD/DVD blanks.

From the 8-bit Atari era through the height of the Amiga, I was as bad as anyone when it came to copying games. This lead to indiscriminate collecting and tremendous time wasting on trying everything for myself instead of letting reviews and word of mouth winnow it down. I saw everything that came out but how much did I actually enjoy along the way. In retrospect I believe it was far less than if I'd been restricted to more selective purchases.[/QUOTE]


Your comments sir, are right on the money. While I don't condone your activities- I do respect your ability to come out of the closet about this and speak openly about it.
 
A lot of the problem is that there have not been that many good games. In the past year there have been less than 5 quality FPS games on the PC worth a flip. Also a lot of the good games have been buggier than crap. Look at Battlefield 2, just imagine how many more copies it would have sold if they could have fixed half the bugs in the game.

Another problem is that there are not a universal set of tools used for making PC games. Look at consoles, over half the developers used renderware and many used one of the PC engines to help aid quick development and to help keep bugs down instead of making their own engines. More cooperation between PC developers would help out a lot.

Microsoft has also done nothing to help out the PC market.
 
[quote name='friedram']I would suggest this- those of us who break over $140,000 a year get put in the "non-Ghetto" category- without copy protection. The rest of the world then should have to do online registration. The "no way! I would never buy it anyway" is bullshit. I am willing to best $100 in cold hard cash that the majority of people on CAG if they could get their games for free, they would do it regardless of how- because most of those people are under the age of 21 and poor. Most of the people's wants on this site are greater than their means to meet their wants.[/quote]
Yes, if I could get my games for free, I would. The "I wouldn't buy it anyway" argument is more accurately "I wouldn't pay money for it anyway." And, amazingly, once I stopped downloading PC games, I didn't buy any for three years between that time and when I found some uber cheap ones through CAG - I still hardly buy any since I don't play on my PC much due to my time and hardware limitations. In fact, I bought more games during the four year period it was possible for me to download them (~20) than I have in the four years since that time (8).
 
[quote name='Strell']Hey. Shut up. :(

Since I finally played MI1/2 in the last month, I went through a pretty terrible withdrawel period, given that Gilbert didn't pen the true ending to the trilogy. Especially when that fucker interviewed with Gamespot about a month ago talking about how he'd love to do it.

(And yes I know there's 3 and 4, I'll play through them again soon, right after I finish the Dig and Fate of Atlantis.)[/quote]

Strell, have you not played Fate of Atlantis yet? Oh MAN you're in for a helluva game. That's one of my faves of all time. Did you get some Lucasarts pack or something?
 
[quote name='friedram']I would suggest this- those of us who break over $140,000 a year get put in the "non-Ghetto" category- without copy protection. The rest of the world then should have to do online registration.[/quote]You can't seriously think this is a good idea, do you? You're acting as if piracy is strictly a money issue.
 
Someone I know used to 'try' PC games, but if he like them, he'd go out and buy a retail copy. For realz.

It would help if standard computers with just integrated video could actually run todays games without having to buy a dedicated graphics card.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Someone I know used to 'try' PC games, but if he like them, he'd go out and buy a retail copy. For realz.

It would help if standard computers with just integrated video could actually run todays games without having to buy a dedicated graphics card.[/quote]
I didn't buy my laptop for games four years ago, per se, but I figured with a 2.4 GHz P4 and 256 MB of RAM (since upgraded to 768), I'd be able to do something with it - nope, mobile Radeon card doesn't do hardware T&L, so even light games like Freedom Force and Delta Force Xtreme can't run on it.

And my desktop with a decent video card is a 7 year old 500 MHz P3. Nothing doing there.
 
[quote name='coltyhuxx']Strell, have you not played Fate of Atlantis yet? Oh MAN you're in for a helluva game. That's one of my faves of all time. Did you get some Lucasarts pack or something?[/QUOTE]

No. I got them through other channels.

FoA is proving a little difficult for me to get into. I wasn't ever much of an Indy fan, but I'll keep playing definitely. I got my hands on The Dig (again), so I'm going to start that back up. Other series (Monkey Island, Maniac Mansion) are either aimed for humor or prove to have somewhat more interesting concepts (The Dig), so I'm not discounting FoA at all. I think I am stuck already in it though. :)

I tried to play the third Indy game (Last Crusade), but it just feels too archaic.

So far this summer I've played DoTT, Sam 'n Max, Loom, and Monkey Island 1 and 2. Trying to finish FoA, The Dig, Monkey Islands 3/4, and basically all of Sierra's library (LSL, Space Quest, Quest for Glory, etc) in the next few months.

God I wish Lucasarts would port these to the DS...
 
[quote name='Strell']

I tried to play the third Indy game (Last Crusade), but it just feels too archaic.

So far this summer I've played DoTT, Sam 'n Max, Loom, and Monkey Island 1 and 2. Trying to finish FoA, The Dig, Monkey Islands 3/4, and basically all of Sierra's library (LSL, Space Quest, Quest for Glory, etc) in the next few months.

God I wish Lucasarts would port these to the DS...[/quote]

The last crusade is a good game, try it again. Also, Police quest is good if you can get the driving to function, these games would later evolve into SWAT. I used to play these adventure games endlessly.

There is a cool adventure game for the GBA called "broken sword", I don't know how the GBA game actually plays but the pc versions were really beautiful games.

And theres a fangame being made based on the old indy point & clickers, theres even a demo at the site, not bad but the writing is a little iffy in my opinion, "indiana jones and the fountain of youth"
 
I think the GPU issue is at least reasonably addressed through scalability of the game's engine. For example, I played through F.E.A.R. the first time with a 3 year old GPU just fine at 800X600. Now that I have a newer card, the game looks prettier and runs a little smoother, but I enjoyed my first time around.

I hated Steam at first, but now that I have used it some I really like it. Could you elaborate on what you don't like about it or how it resembles big brother, camoor? Personally, I hated the fact that I had to have an internet connection to decrypt files on a game that I had already paid money for back when I got HL2. I felt like if I ever wanted to pick the game up in the distant future, Steam might be offline and I would be screwed. I think that if Steam ever went down, though, Valve would release something you could download to make the game playable without Steam. Honestly, I like that smaller developers can piggyback on Steam to sell their mods, and I like that more money goes to the developer through Steam. If I can circumvent companies like Wal-Mart then hallelujah. Plus, I just recently discovered the fact that you can download high quality trailers and demos straight off of steam at fast speeds for free. So yeah, my assessment is that I can overlook the shortcomings of Steam, because I figure they will not screw me over. Now, there may be spyware type stuff included with Steam that I don't know about, which is why I asked comoor to elaborate. I typed more than I planned :whistle2:( Thanks for reading... if you did. If you didn't read all of this paragraph, but read this second-to-last sentence, then wtf you should go up a couple of sentences to get the jist. If you just skipped this paragraph, then I will have you know that I recently slept with various female members of your family that you care about, and degrade them sexually... just kidding! ;););)or am I?

As for piracy killing PC games, I think they have overlooked MMOs. Not only that, but other games with online play which requires a proprietary online service (e.g., Diablo II with Battlenet) are also difficult (impossible by my knowledge) to hack into for free. I am against the concept of MMOs, but I recognize that they are successful. More work than fun if you ask me ;)
 
[quote name='Strell']No. I got them through other channels.

FoA is proving a little difficult for me to get into. I wasn't ever much of an Indy fan, but I'll keep playing definitely. I got my hands on The Dig (again), so I'm going to start that back up. Other series (Monkey Island, Maniac Mansion) are either aimed for humor or prove to have somewhat more interesting concepts (The Dig), so I'm not discounting FoA at all. I think I am stuck already in it though. :)

I tried to play the third Indy game (Last Crusade), but it just feels too archaic.

So far this summer I've played DoTT, Sam 'n Max, Loom, and Monkey Island 1 and 2. Trying to finish FoA, The Dig, Monkey Islands 3/4, and basically all of Sierra's library (LSL, Space Quest, Quest for Glory, etc) in the next few months.

God I wish Lucasarts would port these to the DS...[/QUOTE]

Man, the memories of Indy and the Last Crusade on my Packard Bell 386.. I kept getting stuck after rescuing Indy's dad, and would get pummeled in a fistfight with some gigantor Nazi guard. It was a great game though

I don't really think it's piracy; I think it has to do with accessibility, full cost of the hobby, and large growth of competing markets over the past 15 years (between console games and PC games). The interface of mouse and keyboard, for example, used primarily in RTS and FPS is much less accessible than a controller in a living room. Plus, the costs of getting the most out of a PC game can be astronomical. Back in the day, PC games didn't require large graphics cards and investments in system performance as often as they do now. Developers for PC games don't seem to be maximizing hardware potential; yet instead seem to be depending on the user investing in larger GPU's. Console developers don't have that option, as they're given a uniform piece of hardware for the most part in a time window of 4-5 years.

As console gaming has greatly increased in popularity, PC game sales have declined. The development costs can't be met unless sales are excellent, such as with guaranteed hits like Quake, Doom, practically any Blizzard game, or Half Life. Thus, the number of games released has declined due to business decisions (will this game generate profit?). Taking risks on new properties means more costs in marketing, as you will have fewer early adopters and must go on a publicity crusade (which doesn't help if the title is mediocre).

Consumers are also quickly losing faith in PC gaming. Games are rushed, and it's getting to be a very common practice of releasing an incomplete product with intentions of patching it later on. Look at a case such as Deus Ex: Invisible Wars, where the game was seemingly designed around console hardware and the PC release was very buggy prior to patching.

Finally, consumers are catching on to living room entertainment more and more than ever before. I'm not just talking about gaming on a home theatre.. box office sales with movies have forced many cinema franchises to file for bankruptcy due to slumping sales. It's as if people are catching on to relaxing in a home theatre environment more and more rather than going to a theatre to see movies or slumping over a computer desk to frag someone. I guess you could call it a "comfort factor."

Therefore, I think piracy is just a small percentage of the overall problem. Many great PC games that perform well in terms of performance and advertising will still sell, but that takes the financial backing of a profitable company. On the downside, that means that innovation will be seen as a bit risky (there aren't too many truly innovative titles coming around nowadays). With a high retail markup, a mediocre title that received little marketing support will only get cracked and have keygens sitting around as it isn't a pricepoint that the consumer will bite at. However, most PC game sales are made during the early adopter period within the first month or two of release. By the time piracy has made an impact on sales, the distributor should have made adjustments to the MSRP by then anyways. A game that didn't sell for 6 months and ends up cracked and distributed illegally has already hurt the developer that made it from the poor retail performance. The damage has already been done.

I'd hate to say it, but with the rise of console gaming, the PC is no longer a dominate platform as it was 15 years ago... with the exception of the big buzz titles like Warcraft and Half Life, it's moved toward the direction of being a niche market.

Oh yeah.. one more thing. Many people that grew up playing PC games are faced with something in adult life.. having to stare at a monitor all day at work (and post long posts on CAG instead of working, such as what I am doing but shouldn't be right now :) ). Doing it 4 more hours a day at home can feel more like a chore instead of cranking up God of War while sitting on the couch.
 
Yeah, but I'd say you're a minority within a minority. ;)

[quote name='epobirs']Nonsense. I can remember when I fell into pirating games back in the Atari 800 days. Rather than buying a small number of researched game choices, I instead blew my whole leisure budget on blank media to store every single product that appeared for the machine. I've watched others repeat the process endlessly. It went from buy nothing but blank 5.25" floppies to buying nothing but blank 3.5" floppies to today's CD/DVD blanks.

From the 8-bit Atari era through the height of the Amiga, I was as bad as anyone when it came to copying games. This lead to indiscriminate collecting and tremendous time wasting on trying everything for myself instead of letting reviews and word of mouth winnow it down. I saw everything that came out but how much did I actually enjoy along the way. In retrospect I believe it was far less than if I'd been restricted to more selective purchases.[/quote]
 
I would say I can find pretty much anything on PC besides MMOs for free, and yet I buy PC games regularly. I am a grad student and really don't have a whole lot of money, either. I also occasionally "pirate" a game, but I usually don't play it very long, becuase I just downloaded it for curiosity's sake. I have also pirated games that I have lost or damaged the CD to. Then again, I have also repurchased such games as well. The Longest Journey is an example of that. So yeah, if I were to "pirate" a game, I would never fucking buy it anyway.

Metal Boss: all three 'Broken Sword's are badass! "Momma Stobbard didn't raise no fools!" "Have you seen this man? He's a cold-blooded killer."

[quote name='friedram']I would suggest this- those of us who break over $140,000 a year get put in the "non-Ghetto" category- without copy protection. The rest of the world then should have to do online registration. The "no way! I would never buy it anyway" is bullshit. I am willing to best $100 in cold hard cash that the majority of people on CAG if they could get their games for free, they would do it regardless of how- because most of those people are under the age of 21 and poor. Most of the people's wants on this site are greater than their means to meet their wants.[/quote]
 
Aye Metal Boss, I'll be all over the new Indy when it arrives.

Same with DoTT 2 (another fanmade, but we're arresting opinion until it arrives).

Skylandr - the fistfights piss me off. I'm aware they are in FoA as well, but damn, I don't need a broken FREE system in my early adventure games. :) Well, not broken, just frustrating.

I'll work through the non Sierra/Lucasarts games (Broken Sword, Twinsen's Adventure, etc) at some point as well.

I've got almost all of Sierra's classics at this point, and I'm having a blast playing through them. I'm still more of a Lucasarts guy, cuz I don't like the threat of death and/or getting completely stuck in the game and having to start over (I'm looking at you, King's Quest 6).

Prolly why I liked Phoenix Wright so much. You really do owe it to yourself to play it if you enjoy adventure games. There's some underground games in the adventure world I want to play through that I see off adventuregamers.com and such that I'd like to give a shot.

Oh yea, and I have to get a copy of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream. That one looks brilliant.

Couple of my friends (BKPartisan and MarioColbert on here) are kicking around the idea of making our own game, and/or possibly making a fanmade sequel. We'll see how it goes.
 
Too bad I'm so lazy about it. I need to motivate myself to stop playing the games before I can make them :)

[quote name='Strell']
Couple of my friends (BKPartisan and MarioColbert on here) are kicking around the idea of making our own game, and/or possibly making a fanmade sequel. We'll see how it goes.[/quote]
 
[quote name='BKPartisan']Too bad I'm so lazy about it. I need to motivate myself to stop playing the games before I can make them :)[/QUOTE]

I need to stop watching the Office. :(

"You grilled your foot."
 
[quote name='Strell']Aye Metal Boss, I'll be all over the new Indy when it arrives.

Same with DoTT 2 (another fanmade, but we're arresting opinion until it arrives).

Skylandr - the fistfights piss me off. I'm aware they are in FoA as well, but damn, I don't need a broken FREE system in my early adventure games. :) Well, not broken, just frustrating.

I'll work through the non Sierra/Lucasarts games (Broken Sword, Twinsen's Adventure, etc) at some point as well.

I've got almost all of Sierra's classics at this point, and I'm having a blast playing through them. I'm still more of a Lucasarts guy, cuz I don't like the threat of death and/or getting completely stuck in the game and having to start over (I'm looking at you, King's Quest 6).

Prolly why I liked Phoenix Wright so much. You really do owe it to yourself to play it if you enjoy adventure games. There's some underground games in the adventure world I want to play through that I see off adventuregamers.com and such that I'd like to give a shot.

Oh yea, and I have to get a copy of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream. That one looks brilliant.

Couple of my friends (BKPartisan and MarioColbert on here) are kicking around the idea of making our own game, and/or possibly making a fanmade sequel. We'll see how it goes.[/QUOTE]

It's funny, Indy3 (as the DOS command for me was back in the day) had some big 3 color card with coded stuff on it. It came with a red 3D visor (well.. nothing more than a piece of cardboard with red film to view the code card) that was used for something.. but I don't remember what. The packaging was surprisingly good, and it had a bunch of disks (not as many as Wing Commander II.. which if I remember, had something along the lines of 7 or 8 3.5" floppy disks).

I felt like the man having a 386 with a Soundblaster card on my street in base housing back in those days. Kids would come over and be like "wow, the music sounds just like the movie!"

Edit: I wanted to add one more point to my long winded post from page 2. If a game doesn't sell well initially, many developers no longer support it. It's no longer published, sent to retail, or patched. As of that point, I consider it abandonware. Like with Indy3, not only will you not be able to find it on a retail shelf, but the equipment it was designed to run on is so obsolete that it's actually difficult to find.

Once a game isn't sold, published, or supported, it's free game to me. Sure, the amateur community may pick it up to be continued in the realms of playability and other improvements (such as Freespace 2, some massively multiplayer space sim Microsoft made that's on my PC at home but I forgot what it was, etc etc). I downloaded Number Munchers and Oregon Trail without remorse, and will never feel like a pirate for it. Same thing with Wing Commander I-IV, but I've owned them growing up and still have some of the original discs. If I could convince enough CAG's to try to take me on in Jane's Fighters Anthology and feel the pain, I'd probably try to download that too and get some fan patches (just out of laziness though, as I still own the retail copy).
 
[quote name='BKPartisan']Yeah, but I'd say you're a minority within a minority. ;)[/QUOTE]


My experience of observing other fall into the piracy habit suggests just the opposite.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']A lot of the problem is that there have not been that many good games. In the past year there have been less than 5 quality FPS games on the PC worth a flip. Also a lot of the good games have been buggier than crap. Look at Battlefield 2, just imagine how many more copies it would have sold if they could have fixed half the bugs in the game.

Another problem is that there are not a universal set of tools used for making PC games. Look at consoles, over half the developers used renderware and many used one of the PC engines to help aid quick development and to help keep bugs down instead of making their own engines. More cooperation between PC developers would help out a lot.

Microsoft has also done nothing to help out the PC market.[/QUOTE]

Renderware's marketshare isn't even 20%, nevermind half the market.

THere is little Microsoft can do but put out tools as they've always done and offer advice as they've always done. They don't own game publishing ont he PC as they do on the Xbox. They cannot stop a bad product from being released on the PC. They can't even hope to know about most of the products in development by third parties at any given time
 
Piracy actually has very little to do with it.

It has more to do with games being shipped half done and the publisher anouncing a patch on release day. :roll: Additionally, people arent so much coding demanding games because they need to, but instead because they have the PC muscle to get away with it. Or better said- They code sloppily since they can rely on more powerful PCs to do the needless extra work.

It has more to do with everyone copying everyone. Woa, slow motion was the sickest awesome idea ever... in Max Pain.... 5 years ago

Mmmm Splinter Cell 18 sure is... repetative.

However, stale ideas still aren't as big a hinderance as the need for PC compotence. A lot of people are afraid of PC games because they don't know what an AGP port is, not to mention the fact that its becoming dated tech.



Lazy people kill PC games. They're at all levels. From pulishers copying every other game to people not knowing how to actually use their PCs that they spend 3k on.
 
[quote name='epobirs']I saw everything that came out but how much did I actually enjoy along the way. In retrospect I believe it was far less than if I'd been restricted to more selective purchases.[/quote]

LoL - our corporate overlords have brainwashed you properly.
 
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