I am a huge stealth game fan. I was thinking about this today, there really hasn't been many if any stealth games this generation. There is MGS4 which I don't consider a stealth game, you could shoot your way through to whole game. There was also Splinter Cell Conviction which ditched the stealth game play and decided to become an action game. some people consider the batman games stealth games, but I played them and they are more of your adventure/beat em up games. There has only been one great stealth game this generation and It was ported over to 360 from the ps2/xbox, Hitman Blood money, the only true stealth game to come out on the current gen consoles IMO. Last gen we had 3 amazing hitman games, 3 amazing splinter cell games and 2 amazing MGS games. WTH is going on with these developers? I'm tired of all these great games being converted into action games. There is an overload of action games, there is no need to convert stealth games into action games. Why is this happening, are stealth games not marketable to a large audience?
Is the Stealth genre dying?
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elessar123
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In order to die, it had to have thrived.
PenguinMaster
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[quote name='elessar123']In order to die, it had to have thrived.[/QUOTE]
What? Why must that be true?
Hitman Absolution may or may not still be stealth.
I don't think most gamers have the patience for stealth, so they aren't marketable to a mass audience.
I personally liked Splinter Cell Conviction even though it wasn't a stealth game.
I'm trying to think of a way to connect those three statements without them just sounding like random thoughts.
What? Why must that be true?
Hitman Absolution may or may not still be stealth.
I don't think most gamers have the patience for stealth, so they aren't marketable to a mass audience.
I personally liked Splinter Cell Conviction even though it wasn't a stealth game.
I'm trying to think of a way to connect those three statements without them just sounding like random thoughts.
the reason is because, stealth is a niche market, alot of ppl don't like it, so by broadening the scope of the game (ie: mgs4 you can shoot your way threw it now) makes alot more ppl (ie: casuals/fps/or action fans) able to play it and buy it thus giving the companies more money, but still rewarding the stealth player by taking the stealth route in the game over brute force.
*look at the survival horror genre !
*look at the survival horror genre !
elessar123
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I went through the first Splinter Cell without being very stealthy, so I'm not sure I would say Splinter Cell was ever true stealth. The only times I tried to be stealthy was when it was absolutely required.
Thief was true stealth, and I hated it. It tried to be realistic, then they immediately add in stupid moss arrows and water arrows. And walking skeletons.
Thief was true stealth, and I hated it. It tried to be realistic, then they immediately add in stupid moss arrows and water arrows. And walking skeletons.
panzerfaust
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Nothing wrong with fantasy elements in a realistic world.
Dr Mario Kart
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I think the best you're going to get these days are Western RPGs that have stealth skill set branches (Elder Scrolls, Fallout)
Theres another Thief coming out, right?
Indie folks have managed to keep horror/survivor horror alive through things like Amnesia and Slenderman. I'm sure there are some niche groups making sneaky games. I dont keep up with them so I couldnt tell you more specifically.
Theres another Thief coming out, right?
Indie folks have managed to keep horror/survivor horror alive through things like Amnesia and Slenderman. I'm sure there are some niche groups making sneaky games. I dont keep up with them so I couldnt tell you more specifically.
Have you played Deus Ex: Human Revolution, OP? The stealth reminded me a lot of the older Splinter Cell games. A lot of the levels took place in office type buildings and there were many vents you could sneak around in. You could hack computers and read emails, take down enemies with tranquilizer darts, move bodies around, etc. Of course the boss fights were the complete opposite of stealth, but that's another story.
Dishonored comes out in October and is supposed to be very stealth heavy as well.
Dishonored comes out in October and is supposed to be very stealth heavy as well.
snakemaster2389
CAG Newbie
As a big stealth fan over the many years of playing games, stealth games are clearly totally different than what they were back in 2001 and 2004. In fact the main reason why I bought a original xbox was to play Splinter Cell because after playing a demo of on ps2 I was totally hooked and I couldn't get enough of it. But today's world is different because people want choices and not be confined into only one playstyle so that's why your seeing the Splinter Cells and Metal Gear Solid's just turning into more action oriented games rather than focusing on stealth. It is sad to see that there are very little stealth games to choose from today but Dishonored does look good but I have a feeling that stealth isn't the primary or only way to play, your given choices now so its totally different now. You will always see remnants of stealth in certain games but they won't be the main attraction but rather just a choice if you want to. Even Hitman: Absolution looks like its going to be more action oriented but as long as you can play it stealthily, I am cool with that but I would like to see some cool indie stealth games on Steam or PSN being made more rather than just action or platformer games all the time. Is stealth dead? Kinda but like I said you're always gonna see it in many games as either a choice or a certain part in a game where it will have a stealth section. Hopefully, Hitman: Absolution and maybe Splinter Cell: Blacklist can give us some cool stealth but the number one reason why companies have to focus more on action is because of the evil word: money.
waldo21212
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Hitman did not require stealth to complete, just to get the good rankings. I prefer this, since failing a level automatically due to detection can get annoying.
MGS4 allowing you to shoot through the game doesn't mean you have to. You can still choose how to play the game.
Certain parts of the Batman games (AA more so AC), could be done with or without stealth, but only a few limited parts require it. I found slowly taking out henchmen with stealth to be a lot more fun, and while it took more time it seemed easier then bum rushing a group and hoping for the best.
Parts of Assassins Creed can be done with a certain level of stealth, but again there is no hard requirement most of the time.
Deus Ex (as mentioned above) can be done with stealth, but good luck on the boss fights if you choose the stealth path.
Having options on how to play is not a bad thing IMO. A stealth required level here or there, with the ability to play through the rest of the game how you want allows a broader audience to enjoy the game they way they want to.
MGS4 allowing you to shoot through the game doesn't mean you have to. You can still choose how to play the game.
Certain parts of the Batman games (AA more so AC), could be done with or without stealth, but only a few limited parts require it. I found slowly taking out henchmen with stealth to be a lot more fun, and while it took more time it seemed easier then bum rushing a group and hoping for the best.
Parts of Assassins Creed can be done with a certain level of stealth, but again there is no hard requirement most of the time.
Deus Ex (as mentioned above) can be done with stealth, but good luck on the boss fights if you choose the stealth path.
Having options on how to play is not a bad thing IMO. A stealth required level here or there, with the ability to play through the rest of the game how you want allows a broader audience to enjoy the game they way they want to.
matrix9280
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Only cowards hide and use stealth. Why would I want to play a game as a coward instead of a hero? It doesn't make sense.
Renaissance 2K
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Anybody else remember the period about ten years ago when stealth was trending, and almost every game developer included at least one stealth level in their games for absolutely no reason?
It drove me crazy. You could be running around as a giant bearded roid-face dual-wielding flaming cannons with chainsaws on your feet, and then, in Level 3, you had to sneak around a mansion and poison some rich guy's soup. Ridiculous.
It drove me crazy. You could be running around as a giant bearded roid-face dual-wielding flaming cannons with chainsaws on your feet, and then, in Level 3, you had to sneak around a mansion and poison some rich guy's soup. Ridiculous.
I don't like the choice based games, it is not fun taking the time to sneak around when you know you can just blast through the level in 5 minutes with a machine gun. The "choice" based games are hilarious to me, the developers are basically saying "look this is an action game, but if you want to crawl around the level for no reason, then that is your choice"
TheLongshot
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[quote name='wwe101']I don't like the choice based games, it is not fun taking the time to sneak around when you know you can just blast through the level in 5 minutes with a machine gun. The "choice" based games are hilarious to me, the developers are basically saying "look this is an action game, but if you want to crawl around the level for no reason, then that is your choice"[/QUOTE]
That's bad design. The choice should be that if you shoot your way though, things are a lot harder, and I mean that it is likely your character will die.
Yeah, stealth with automatic failure if you are detected is pretty sucky.
That's bad design. The choice should be that if you shoot your way though, things are a lot harder, and I mean that it is likely your character will die.
Yeah, stealth with automatic failure if you are detected is pretty sucky.
Feeding the Abscess
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Alpha Protocol
I agree with what has been said, stealth being part of choice game design is sort of dead, although Skyrim has successfully done it and I find myself enjoying sneaking through dungeons even if by necessity and the fact its much easier to, other games haven't done it as well.
It's obviously a game design issue. With so many games going to an open world design its hard to force stealth on the player and have it feel realistic. Skyrim does it well, Imo, because while its open world the dungeons are still linear, but the choice is still on the player.
I think Uncharted mixed it up well, but it still feels like dated game design to me when you are in an action adventure game and suddenly thrust into a stealth/sneaking level. This takes careful game design and I think developers are doing this less and less. COD even has sneaking moments, but never a full blown level. I'm sure The Last of Us will have us sneaking around quite a bit...but yeah, a full blown stealth game really is a niche market and we all know how devs are focused on mass marketing now.
It's obviously a game design issue. With so many games going to an open world design its hard to force stealth on the player and have it feel realistic. Skyrim does it well, Imo, because while its open world the dungeons are still linear, but the choice is still on the player.
I think Uncharted mixed it up well, but it still feels like dated game design to me when you are in an action adventure game and suddenly thrust into a stealth/sneaking level. This takes careful game design and I think developers are doing this less and less. COD even has sneaking moments, but never a full blown level. I'm sure The Last of Us will have us sneaking around quite a bit...but yeah, a full blown stealth game really is a niche market and we all know how devs are focused on mass marketing now.
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']Anybody else remember the period about ten years ago when stealth was trending, and almost every game developer included at least one stealth level in their games for absolutely no reason?
It drove me crazy. You could be running around as a giant bearded roid-face dual-wielding flaming cannons with chainsaws on your feet, and then, in Level 3, you had to sneak around a mansion and poison some rich guy's soup. Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Used to drive me up a wall all the time
It drove me crazy. You could be running around as a giant bearded roid-face dual-wielding flaming cannons with chainsaws on your feet, and then, in Level 3, you had to sneak around a mansion and poison some rich guy's soup. Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Used to drive me up a wall all the time
go to the youtube channel dspgamming and try to watch phil play metal gear solid. sadly that's how the majority of gamers play the damn thing, like rambo and raging that they are dieing hehe.
i do think stealth games need to improve on the whole get detected and game over bit.
i do think stealth games need to improve on the whole get detected and game over bit.
Ink.So.Well.
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[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Alpha Protocol[/QUOTE]
Somewhat but not quite as some missions were scripted to dick up your enemy alert status at a certain point. Very annoying considering there was 5/10 point achievement to finish a certain amount of missions without being detected. It seriously should have been worth 100 due to how f*cking difficult that actually was to pull off without studying the game or being a part of the development team.
Somewhat but not quite as some missions were scripted to dick up your enemy alert status at a certain point. Very annoying considering there was 5/10 point achievement to finish a certain amount of missions without being detected. It seriously should have been worth 100 due to how f*cking difficult that actually was to pull off without studying the game or being a part of the development team.
Stoic Person Eater
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With most Assassin Creed games, they can be played with stealth or without - it's up to the gamer. The gamer isn't forced to use stealth, but the game encourages it with the blending mechanisms and hiding elements introduced in the first game of the series. Since the first game, the stealth abilities have become more in depth allowing for the player to play the game with more stealth than some of the games the OP mentioned.
Also, SKYRIM, I played the whole game in stealth. You're rewarded for building your stealth and there is a bonus for kills and theft while done in sneak mode. The game's stealth also takes into account the light/dark elements and sneaking in the shadows in certainly encouraged.
Games the OP mentioned have instituted basic ideas that are now put into games that don't necessarily make stealth the most important aspect of the game, but present as an option for a player - especially in open world games.
If the OP means that linear games where you have to sneak around and fail/die if you break stealth are a dying genre, I'm pretty
ing glad.
Also, SKYRIM, I played the whole game in stealth. You're rewarded for building your stealth and there is a bonus for kills and theft while done in sneak mode. The game's stealth also takes into account the light/dark elements and sneaking in the shadows in certainly encouraged.
Games the OP mentioned have instituted basic ideas that are now put into games that don't necessarily make stealth the most important aspect of the game, but present as an option for a player - especially in open world games.
If the OP means that linear games where you have to sneak around and fail/die if you break stealth are a dying genre, I'm pretty
ing glad.
ID2006
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I love the stealth genre; however, I don't like how most stealth sequences feel so heavily scripted and rigid, even on a first playthrough. The stealth segments in Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid, Human Revolution, and plenty of others felt this way. Instead, there needs to be a set of unanticipated occurrences for the player to react to, make you work for it.
Too often the formula can be broken down to:
1. Hide
2. Spend as much time as desired watching the scene (usually something boring like a few soldiers patrolling, with maybe a couple of cameras and some other types of sensors)
3. Sneak by as the AI continues its repetitive stroll.
Mostly this happens in military settings like MGS.
Oh, right. It's also irritating when a game sees fit to make covert tactics the staple gameplay form until a "boss fight" comes around; then suddenly, you're doing something stupid like running around an open field with rocket launchers and fighting mechs or giants.
Anyway, I think there's a lot of potential for stealth games where both the player and the enemy have access to supernatural abilities to augment their stealth/detection. It's been a long time, but I think the Gamecube exclusive Geist had some ideas with good potential, just as one example.
Too often the formula can be broken down to:
1. Hide
2. Spend as much time as desired watching the scene (usually something boring like a few soldiers patrolling, with maybe a couple of cameras and some other types of sensors)
3. Sneak by as the AI continues its repetitive stroll.
Mostly this happens in military settings like MGS.
Oh, right. It's also irritating when a game sees fit to make covert tactics the staple gameplay form until a "boss fight" comes around; then suddenly, you're doing something stupid like running around an open field with rocket launchers and fighting mechs or giants.
Anyway, I think there's a lot of potential for stealth games where both the player and the enemy have access to supernatural abilities to augment their stealth/detection. It's been a long time, but I think the Gamecube exclusive Geist had some ideas with good potential, just as one example.
cheapbrokegamer
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Stealth sucks
As an American I like to kick ass while you see me do it
lol trolling
As an American I like to kick ass while you see me do it
lol trolling
[quote name='ID2006']
Too often the formula can be broken down to:
1. Hide
2. Spend as much time as desired watching the scene (usually something boring like a few soldiers patrolling, with maybe a couple of cameras and some other types of sensors)
3. Sneak by as the AI continues its repetitive stroll.[/QUOTE]
4. wash and repeat after said soldier sees you and alerts the entire army to your presence.
As a gamer who has an unplayed pile the above is a huge waste of time anymore. The payoff isn't worth the frustration.
Too often the formula can be broken down to:
1. Hide
2. Spend as much time as desired watching the scene (usually something boring like a few soldiers patrolling, with maybe a couple of cameras and some other types of sensors)
3. Sneak by as the AI continues its repetitive stroll.[/QUOTE]
4. wash and repeat after said soldier sees you and alerts the entire army to your presence.
As a gamer who has an unplayed pile the above is a huge waste of time anymore. The payoff isn't worth the frustration.
Nice thread topic. Stealth games are so fun. It's so much more realistic than just going in front of someone and shooting them in the face while they shoot you in the face. It's frustrating sometimes but damn it feels good to choke that person out while walking right behind him for a couple steps. MGS hd collection and the tenchu games were my favorites. One of the most amazing concepts I have seen for stealth was AC brotherhood multiplayer. That shit is innovation right there. Multiplayer stealth kills. Love it.
St4rgalaqtic
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There is a 2d stealth game coming on xbox arcade that I am looking forward to. I forget the name tho.
[quote name='mr_burnzz'] damn it feels good to choke that person out while walking right behind him for a couple steps. [/QUOTE]
Very, but since more and more games are incorporating stealth elements to their games, it's making the stealth genre irrelevant.
You can play as Nathan Drake and spend a level playing stealth or say it halfway through and run in guns blazing with no penalty. In a dedicated stealth game "I" don't get to choose when I want to be stealthy because it is a forced game mechanic and if I run in guns blazing I'm penalized, die and have to start over. As other games have proven, you can have it both ways so to have a forced stealth game in 2012 seems outdated.
Very, but since more and more games are incorporating stealth elements to their games, it's making the stealth genre irrelevant.
You can play as Nathan Drake and spend a level playing stealth or say
it halfway through and run in guns blazing with no penalty. In a dedicated stealth game "I" don't get to choose when I want to be stealthy because it is a forced game mechanic and if I run in guns blazing I'm penalized, die and have to start over. As other games have proven, you can have it both ways so to have a forced stealth game in 2012 seems outdated.
ID2006
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[quote name='Corvin']Very, but since more and more games are incorporating stealth elements to their games, it's making the stealth genre irrelevant.
You can play as Nathan Drake and spend a level playing stealth or say it halfway through and run in guns blazing with no penalty. In a dedicated stealth game "I" don't get to choose when I want to be stealthy because it is a forced game mechanic and if I run in guns blazing I'm penalized, die and have to start over. As other games have proven, you can have it both ways so to have a forced stealth game in 2012 seems outdated.[/QUOTE]
Well.... you can have a "forced" stealth game and still give the player a variety of ways to handle each scenario, if the game has good design. I would think a stealth genre fan's greatest concern would be dilution of the stealth mechanics to make room for these multi-genre ventures that tend to focus primarily on action and shooting.
I'm just saying that it being pure stealth doesn't have to mean boring and uninspired. Developers just seem to have gotten complacent with genre innovation. Maybe some publishers have pushed for the status quo. Either way, there's still plenty of potential.
Edit: Also, to be fair, a number of stealth games allow you to exit an area or still accomplish your task (especially if you're just moving from one door to another), even if you're noticed. You're essentially starting the "room" over, but at least it isn't an actual death/game over screen.
You can play as Nathan Drake and spend a level playing stealth or say
it halfway through and run in guns blazing with no penalty. In a dedicated stealth game "I" don't get to choose when I want to be stealthy because it is a forced game mechanic and if I run in guns blazing I'm penalized, die and have to start over. As other games have proven, you can have it both ways so to have a forced stealth game in 2012 seems outdated.[/QUOTE]Well.... you can have a "forced" stealth game and still give the player a variety of ways to handle each scenario, if the game has good design. I would think a stealth genre fan's greatest concern would be dilution of the stealth mechanics to make room for these multi-genre ventures that tend to focus primarily on action and shooting.
I'm just saying that it being pure stealth doesn't have to mean boring and uninspired. Developers just seem to have gotten complacent with genre innovation. Maybe some publishers have pushed for the status quo. Either way, there's still plenty of potential.
Edit: Also, to be fair, a number of stealth games allow you to exit an area or still accomplish your task (especially if you're just moving from one door to another), even if you're noticed. You're essentially starting the "room" over, but at least it isn't an actual death/game over screen.
snakemaster2389
CAG Newbie
[quote name='St4rgalaqtic']There is a 2d stealth game coming on xbox arcade that I am looking forward to. I forget the name tho.[/QUOTE]
Mark of the Ninja. I believe it's the game from the guys who made Shank.
Mark of the Ninja. I believe it's the game from the guys who made Shank.
None of the games I mentioned in the OP were games where you would have to start over if you are spotted by multiple people, It would just make the level MUCH harder. That is what I am looking for. In the new stealth games with the option of action, it feels like there is no penalty whatsoever for breaking stealth, you are able to EASILY gun your way through the level. That is not a stealth game with the option of action, that is an action game lol.
Alpha Protocol
Fallout 3 / New Vegas
Assassins Creed 1, 2, 3, Brotherhood, Revelations
Metal Gear Solid 4
Batman AA and AC
Deus Ex HR
Witcher 2
Red Dead Redemption
Uncharted 1,2,3
All those games have pretty big stealth elements to them, some of which are huge parts of the game... sure you dont have to do any stealth in a lot of them, but most games have lots of stealth elements to them. Ive gotten tons of stealth kills in the Uncharted series and Red Dead Redemption... the problem with 100% stealth games is that they are extremely niche. I like to play stealth games too however it makes for a better game when its optional and not what the game centers around.
Heck I didn't even get to FPS with stealth to them...
Fallout 3 / New Vegas
Assassins Creed 1, 2, 3, Brotherhood, Revelations
Metal Gear Solid 4
Batman AA and AC
Deus Ex HR
Witcher 2
Red Dead Redemption
Uncharted 1,2,3
All those games have pretty big stealth elements to them, some of which are huge parts of the game... sure you dont have to do any stealth in a lot of them, but most games have lots of stealth elements to them. Ive gotten tons of stealth kills in the Uncharted series and Red Dead Redemption... the problem with 100% stealth games is that they are extremely niche. I like to play stealth games too however it makes for a better game when its optional and not what the game centers around.
Heck I didn't even get to FPS with stealth to them...
bread's done