Let's argue about Mike Brown!
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perdition(troy
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Not really much controversy here. Cop kills an unarmed black male in cold blood, city explodes in rage because of it. Looting is stupid but the anger is justified.
Depending on what actually happened, it's a possibility that the shoot was justified. I've had this discussion a lot lately, but without going into it too much, here's the long short:
-Lethal force is justifiable when a person reasonably believes they are danger of imminent death or great bodily harm.
-At 6 foot 4, 300+ lbs, Brown could very well deal great bodily harm unarmed.
-If the officer did in fact sustain great bodily harm, lethal force can be justified if Brown was still acting as an aggressor.
Damn, I think that's the simplest I've broken it down to yet. I might have to save that for the tldr people.
-Lethal force is justifiable when a person reasonably believes they are danger of imminent death or great bodily harm.
-At 6 foot 4, 300+ lbs, Brown could very well deal great bodily harm unarmed.
-If the officer did in fact sustain great bodily harm, lethal force can be justified if Brown was still acting as an aggressor.
Damn, I think that's the simplest I've broken it down to yet. I might have to save that for the tldr people.
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perdition(troy
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Yeah lets just shoot the unarmed guy, there are no other options in that situation. No taser, baton, waiting for backup, remaining in your vehicle until the situation calms down, not putting yourself in a compromising situation in which your life is "threatened". I mean what choice did he have HOLY SHIT HE IS BIG AND BLACK ONLY OPTION IS A DOUBLE TAP TO THE HEAD. Suck my balls with the legalese "justified lethal force" bullshit and start thinking about more then just black and white (pun not intended or needed).
Trayvon 2.0. The media will sensationalize. The race hustlers will proselytize. The justice system will exonerize.
All in time to get ready for the next one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU&bpctr=1408583414
Yawn. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-police-fatally-shoot-man-who-brandished-knife/article_85d27316-a17a-5e0a-b1d6-8a6753e2fcb2.html
All in time to get ready for the next one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU&bpctr=1408583414
Yawn. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-police-fatally-shoot-man-who-brandished-knife/article_85d27316-a17a-5e0a-b1d6-8a6753e2fcb2.html
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http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/reporter-over-dozen-witnesses-corroborate-officers-version-michael-brown-shooting
Reporter: Over A Dozen Witnesses Corroborate Officer's Version Of Michael Brown Shooting - See more at: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/reporter-over-dozen-witnesses-corroborate-officers-version-michael-brown-shooting#sthash.9zPnTE9K.dpuf
Don't steal, don't resist arrest, don't approach people with drawn guns ordering you to stop.....good ways not to get shot.
Let's not jump to conclusions either way.
Reporter: Over A Dozen Witnesses Corroborate Officer's Version Of Michael Brown Shooting - See more at: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/reporter-over-dozen-witnesses-corroborate-officers-version-michael-brown-shooting#sthash.9zPnTE9K.dpuf
Don't steal, don't resist arrest, don't approach people with drawn guns ordering you to stop.....good ways not to get shot.
Let's not jump to conclusions either way.
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mrsilkunderwear
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How is the anger justified? Logically can you explain to me how does one person go from being angry over an "unjustified" shooting to a looting of another man's store, who had nothing to do with the police?
Sure, but a lot about this situation is funky and rushing to a conclusion without getting all the information would be "acting stupidly" as the President calls it. Wilson does have injuries. Brown has demonstrated violent tendencies. There is the possibility that it was a justified shooting. There is also the possibility that the officer panicked and fired when Brown spun around and was raising his hands, looking like he was drawing a weapon instead of surrendering. Or Wilson is a racist idiot who likes shooting people who break his face.
How do you perceive the shooting Spokker posted? Justified?
All in all, without all the evidence it's hard to make a call. When the main witness testimony being aired doesn't line up with the autopsy results, you have to doubt it. According to the main eyewitness, Brown was shot in the back and suffered from the gun shot wounds. He stated he looked like he was in pain (squirming and audibly making moans when he hit the ground). The family's own Medical Examiner disproved his statements when he stated all the shots were to the front, and Brown died instantly (and painlessly) from the shots to the head.
I will admit, I am biased towards LE. I've chosen LE as my career path. Despite this though, I can admit when an officer messes up. I don't think that's the case in the original shooting.
The reaction to the shooting? Very much a real possibility. Then again, I'm not boots on the ground there, so I can't say for sure. Some of the actions I've witnessed seem to be overkill by some officers there though.
And once again, for the tldr people: The main witness being used by the media gave testimony that is very different from the autopsy results. Questionable.
I will admit, I am biased towards LE. I've chosen LE as my career path. Despite this though, I can admit when an officer messes up. I don't think that's the case in the original shooting.
The reaction to the shooting? Very much a real possibility. Then again, I'm not boots on the ground there, so I can't say for sure. Some of the actions I've witnessed seem to be overkill by some officers there though.
And once again, for the tldr people: The main witness being used by the media gave testimony that is very different from the autopsy results. Questionable.
RPGNinja
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The only CONTROVERSY should be is why aren't blacks rioting in the streets in the southside of Chicago where blacks are killed at an alarming rate every month?
Oh thats right because its BLACK on BLACK crime and that wouldn't feed into being a victim. Nor would it help that the "White Devil" wasn't involved either. Gotta hate that.
Nobody wants to say it.. but everyone knows if this had been a black cop shooting a white guy there wouldn't even be a hint of a riot because people know how to behave themselves. The sad part is that these black looters are actually also looting black business owners and they are getting pissed off at the whole ordeal.
Have not seen Rev Al or Jesse Jackson there once. Not to mention Obama claims to love Chicago so much but keeps ignoring that and nothing got better there while he was a community organizer.
Oh thats right because its BLACK on BLACK crime and that wouldn't feed into being a victim. Nor would it help that the "White Devil" wasn't involved either. Gotta hate that.
Nobody wants to say it.. but everyone knows if this had been a black cop shooting a white guy there wouldn't even be a hint of a riot because people know how to behave themselves. The sad part is that these black looters are actually also looting black business owners and they are getting pissed off at the whole ordeal.
Have not seen Rev Al or Jesse Jackson there once. Not to mention Obama claims to love Chicago so much but keeps ignoring that and nothing got better there while he was a community organizer.
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http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/20/police-sources-to-nyt-witnesses-forensics-show-that-wilson-sustained-an-injury-during-his-confrontation-with-michael-brown/
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/19/was-the-cop-injured-during-his-altercation-with-michael-brown/
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The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.
Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the District Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.
If this is correct, does it change your mind?
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/19/was-the-cop-injured-during-his-altercation-with-michael-brown/
"
The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.
Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the District Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.
If this is correct, does it change your mind?
perdition(troy
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Re-read my post next time. THE LOOTING IS STUPID THE ANGER IS JUSTIFIED incase you didn't notice that part I typed it louder for you.
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Anger over a situation in which the investigation is not complete??????
I can see possible anger over a delay in information release, but that's how the system works. Why not wait and give all the info at once as not to create uninformed opinions and judgements based on incomplete or inaccurate info.perdition(troy
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Because an unarmed 18 year old was shot (hit) 6 times by an over zealous police officer that didn't need to use deadly force. And there was a delay in the release of information, so there you go be angry about that.
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HAH! I would love to see how many bullets you would put into a 292 pound guy who is charging you after breaking your face in an earlier attack. Why does the guy's age matter? You also have to understand the bad effects that releasing incomplete info can and has had. Why protest before the system even has a chance to work? Some protesters were demanding justice. Drag the cop in the street and kill him before he has his day in court? Emotional hysteria.....
mrsilkunderwear
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In which case your post does not make sense. You acknowledge the fact that it is stupid and yet somehow the actions are justified? I find it to be a contradiction.
perdition(troy
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You can be angry at what you think is a broken system, show your anger through peaceful protesting, and be justified in doing so. Looting is stupid, detrimental to your cause and wrong. Hope that explains it for you.
mrsilkunderwear
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Yes, its justified when peacefully protesting. Its never justified if you are looting. Thank you for clarifying.
But looting is what gets you free stuff. Obviously the only way to show your anger at the system is by smashing up local businesses and stealing video games.
PS: The ones really hurt by these actions are the employees of these businesses.
perdition(troy
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What is the point of this post.
A) Agreeing that looting in cases like this is stupid.
B) Pointing out that looting in cases like this really have nothing to do with what's going on.
If folks were really trying to send a message, they could destroy stuff easier than they could steal it. But destroying it doesn't get them free stuff. For the looters, it's not about Mike Brown at all - it's about free stuff.
He robbed a place, assaulted the officer and tried to get his gun, started to walk away, officer told him to stop, he turned and charged the officer who then opened fire. Had officer not shot him, we would still be talking about a dead person, the cop.
http://ross-elder.com/2014/08/11/shooting-the-unarmed-man-the-fallacy-of-modern-perception/ - "Unarmed" does not mean non-threatening to life or great bodily harm.
Your arguments are so concise, logical, and persuasive. It's great to debate with you.Yeah and i bet Oscar Grant was a danger and a threat to all those who were involved,outta here.
That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't figure it out.
Purple Flames
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Alright, I guess I'm tossing my hat into the ring and chiming in. A few things of note:
1) The looters are outsiders who are coming into Ferguson and taking advantage of the situation. By their own admissin, the local shop owners didn't recognize any of the people who were wresking their stores.
2) The autopsy report showed that Mike Brown had a gunshot wound on his inner forewarm, which indicates he had his hands up when he was shot. He was also shot in the top of his head, which shows he either had his head lowered in surrender or was on his knees ( I've heard reports saying he was "bull-charging" the cop when he was shot, but frankly I don't believe those stories for a second). He also didn't have any gunshot residue on his body, so he wasn't shot from close range. The first coroner who did the first autopsy didn't
have access to the clothes he was wearing at the time, so anything can change.
3) Darren Wilson didn't have a cracked orbital bone, so those stories are bullshit.
4) While he wasn't hit in the back, it's being reported that the cop did fire on him while he was running away. One of the witnesses was interviewed on MSNBC and says she saw Brown jerked forward like he'd been hit as he was running. This shows that the bullet either grazed him or came close enough to him to make him flinch, prompting him to stop and turn around.
1) The looters are outsiders who are coming into Ferguson and taking advantage of the situation. By their own admissin, the local shop owners didn't recognize any of the people who were wresking their stores.
2) The autopsy report showed that Mike Brown had a gunshot wound on his inner forewarm, which indicates he had his hands up when he was shot. He was also shot in the top of his head, which shows he either had his head lowered in surrender or was on his knees ( I've heard reports saying he was "bull-charging" the cop when he was shot, but frankly I don't believe those stories for a second). He also didn't have any gunshot residue on his body, so he wasn't shot from close range. The first coroner who did the first autopsy didn't
have access to the clothes he was wearing at the time, so anything can change.
3) Darren Wilson didn't have a cracked orbital bone, so those stories are bullshit.
4) While he wasn't hit in the back, it's being reported that the cop did fire on him while he was running away. One of the witnesses was interviewed on MSNBC and says she saw Brown jerked forward like he'd been hit as he was running. This shows that the bullet either grazed him or came close enough to him to make him flinch, prompting him to stop and turn around.
This means nothing. I live in a small community and wouldn't recognize 90% of the people if I had to pick them out of a line-up.
I'm not going to talk about the looting / rioting because it doesn't pertain to the actual event that matters: The shooting.
2) Strange how there's so many autopsies going on, and the only one who said "his arms were definitely up" was the one performed by someone without the credentials to perform the job. Actual Medical Examiners have said the autopsy doesn't give definitive proof one way or another. The only conclusion that can be made is that he wasn't shot in the back, and there are no grazing wounds cited.
3) Cracked orbital or not, he had facial injuries. Which is more consistent with justified use of force than not.
4) There's been multiple different stories over time. One reporter stated that there at least a dozen witnesses corroborating the Officer's story.
All in all, I can't say for a fact who is "right" in this situation. But I can point to holes based off what has been reported. I'd be curious to see what facts are presented to the Grand Jury, as I'd think those are much more accurate than the media reports.
mrsilkunderwear
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I too believe there is something strange going on with this shooting unlike the whole Trayvon Martin incident but nonetheless many people are jumping to conclusions. I say we should wait until all facts are presented and think for ourselves instead of the right/left media.
Bizarre as 
bread's done