Let's paint a dystopian future: What if the Wii reaches PS2 levels?

Price drops will happen, but when? And how much? the PS3 has a loooong way to go before it even reaches the PS2's starting point of $300. The 360 is closer, but the Elite is sending a message that MS doesn't see a need to drop the price, they're just going to "add value" so that paying more is a good thing. I don't think people are going to buy it.

And the low price angle isn't for everyone. Nothing is. But it's for a lot more people than HD/Blu-Ray is, that's for sure.
 
True. I think it might be too little too late. By the time the 360/PS3 reach the mainstream, ideal price point, the Wii may have already caught a lot of that market. But, with its different approach, I don't think the price will convince people alone. Some people may rather hold out for the PS3/360 to decrease in price, rather than look solely at price and jump on the Wii.
 
On topic:

If Nintendo does become the force in video games again like they were in the past and as Sony was the last two generations, is there any chance that they'll remain the company they are now or are they going to revert back to a cartridge pushing, Blu-Ray peddling monster that the market has grown used to?

I just hope we don't have another repeat of the cliche about "absolute power."
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I'd totally buy Twilight Princess with the Ocarina of Time engine or Red Steel with the Shadow Warrior engine provided they could come in at a budget price.[/quote]
Best comment in this thread!
Haha, but I thought Twilight did use the same engine... :(

Nah, I'd buy both copies, just for the laughs.
Seriously.

Reminds me of that unfinished project where the guy was converting Ocarina into a 2D game ala Link to the Past.
That actually would have been quite nice to play.

[quote name='friend of sonic']Look guys I'm just saying I swing the remote and the tennis racket swings too.[/quote]
Hehe, that made me laugh too.
 
[quote name='daroga']On topic:

If Nintendo does become the force in video games again like they were in the past and as Sony was the last two generations, is there any chance that they'll remain the company they are now or are they going to revert back to a cartridge pushing, Blu-Ray peddling monster that the market has grown used to?

I just hope we don't have another repeat of the cliche about "absolute power."[/quote]One would hope that with new management, that would not be the case, but I'm not going to be placing any bets regarding the matter.
 
The video game market has changed, its bigger now, and it definitely can support 2 or 3 winners. Just like DVD players, you can have a low end, and a high end.. Wii is like cyberhome, and Microsoft and Sony, are like Toshiba and Sony DVD players, a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. If a person gets a Wii, and they really enjoy it, and they get into gaming, soon their interests may move to the ps3, or 360.


At this point in time, Nintendo in absolute power over the video game market... would be disaterous, because they can't support this market by themselves, like they did with the NES. If MS, and Sony fold up shop and say, no more gaming division, Nintendo might go down as well. Just like w/ DVDs... people have 3 or 4 DVDs in their home, high end, and one or two low ends... for the video game market to grow, they might need to get the market to a point where the mainstream person has at least two consoles. Wii, and a 360, or PS3, or all 3.

If MS, and Sony want to try and outsell the Wii, then they need to enter that new low end gaming market that the Wii has created. Instead of a Xbox 360 Elite, or the Playstation 3 Elite... come out with the xbox 360 lite, or the Playstation 3 lite. (xbox 360 doesn't need a price drop, at this time, and compared to the Wii its the best deal on the market, 299.99 gets you into HD Gaming w/ a good library of games)
 
I see no evidence yet that 3 major players can be successful simultaneously. That is to say, making money. It may happen at the end of this generation, but it hasnt happened yet.
 
Both Sony and MS are in pretty tenuous situations right now, and if it weren't for them being larger corporations that make money elsewhere, I guarantee the PS3/360 wouldn't exist as we know them today, they'd be closer to Wii powered devices that make their companies money.
 
Wow, just... wow...

I love it when the PS3 people come in (as they do it seems on every general Wii thread) and complain that everyone on CAG puts down the PS3 and is a kneejerk Nintendo-lover. Yet, look what the usual suspects did to this thread - completely jack it... You know, I was planning on getting a PS3 eventually, but with the types of users it seems to attract, I'm not so sure ;).

Oh well... I'm enjoying my new 360 on my 4 year-old HDTV (by the way - no HD content through my cable and none coming any time soon as far as I can tell so this was my first chance at an HD experience). I saw the pretty shiny graphics, and thought they were nice. Then I went back to play Super Paper Mario and had no issues. It didn't make my eyes bleed to look at that grungy ol' 480p signal :lol:. Sorry Sara... Frankly it was nice to go back to playing a well-engineered system that doesn't make my ears ring after playing because of its outrageous disc-drive noise (as they do now after a few hours of Lego Star Wars on the 360). I'm serious - how can Microsoft get away with that crap? If my engineers presented that to me as a prototype I'd fire them on the spot. (No, I don't have engineers).

Anyway, off topic again, sorry ;).

Sara, for someone who seems to be so into the high-end video experience your credibility went out the window (for the nth time) with the "Zelda TP looks worse than an N64 game" comment. Thus any future comment you make about HD gaming and the relative appearance of any Wii/360/PS3 games or 720p/1080p programming in general must be taken with a chunk of salt...

You know, after playing the 360 tonight my kids and I broke out Super Mario Strikers. I hadn't really played that game much even though I've had it since release, and it was an absolute blast to play 4 player (we were all on the same team playing the CPU). The game LOOKS GREAT on my HDTV (and I was sitting very close since I had the one wired controller). I can't wait to see what they do for the online-enabled Wii version. But I guess that isn't "serious" enough for you guys.

I hope the Wii does well enough to gather decent third-party support and all those niche RPG's end up on the Wii. It certainly makes more sense for these lower-budget types of games with smaller intended audiences to go for the system that is cheaper to code for and has the highest user base. So Botticus and I will be happy (even though I have a 360 so I wouldn't mind some going there as well and am looking forward to things like Blue Dragon). I'm guessing Sara and a few others won't be - and that's what's driving her "passion" on these threads I suspect ;). If, by some twist of fate, the PS3 ends up being just like the PS2 in terms of support then, well, I'll get one of those eventually. I'm not going to pitch a fit about it either way...
 
[quote name='Roufuss']The potential of this gen was already stunted because the PS2 was in the lead... hell, I am a firm believer that they barely even tapped out the power they had in the PS2 / Xbox / GC, and definitely not the Xbox.[/quote]

wrong
 
[quote name='derder']wrong[/quote]Perhaps for the PS2 they've more or less maxed it out, but the GC and the Xbox definitely had their plugs pulled in the prime of life.
 
I don't know if it's been addressed, but what will happen to the Wii when it can be found in stores with the regularity that the PS3 and 360 are? (on a related note, does anyone have data on Nintendo's shipments of Wiis? I got a launch unit via Amazon, but have *never* seen one for sale in a store, not that I'm looking)

I would argue that 3 things hurt the PS3 early on (all somewhat related to price, if you want one be-all-end-all reason). First was the lack of solid standout games; Resistance was good, but made to look positively draconian thanks to Gears of War. Second, the eBay/PS3 bust. A few people made out like bandits, but most people fell flat on their face trying to resell it. As a result, many of those systems sold early on ended up recycled back into the retail market, as those who bought PS3s with dollar signs in their eyes and no interest in playing on it returned them. Third, the availability of them en masse shortly after launch helped paint a picture of a system that nobody wanted.

Of course, all this ignores that the PS3 is selling more than the PS2 did by this point in its life, but that's only a halfway relevant argument since the Wii can't stay on shelves 6 months after launch.

Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder if the opposite effect is happening for the Wii; the combination of having a unique salespoint that creates interest (and perhaps an expanded market as well), along with it being hard to find, paint a picture of a console that everybody wants - in short, a long-term Nintendo "reduce supply to create a sales spike" plan. They've done it before.

What is inevitable, however, is that, at some point, the Wii will sit on shelves like the others. What then? How well will it sell then? (of course, another important angle is the question of how many Wiis will be in customers' hands by the time this comes to fruition).

I think the Wii can't win this console generation - hear me out on this one. It's more or less a simple argument that you're all welcome to disagree with. It boils down to this: the long-term success of the Wii will extend the lifespan of both the 360 and PS3. If consoles that are technologically more powerful can't surpass the Wii, there is no incentive to go back to the drawing board and create yet *another* technologically more powerful system. Right? That's the way I see it, anyway. It's silly to think Sony would say "we know innovative won over pretty graphics last gen, so here's our new console, the PS4, which has MORE PRETTIES!!!"

If the Wii holds onto the top spot (once it inevitably gets it) for a long time, I wouldn't expect to see anything on the next gen of consoles until 2012+.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think the Wii can't win this console generation - hear me out on this one. It's more or less a simple argument that you're all welcome to disagree with. It boils down to this: the long-term success of the Wii will extend the lifespan of both the 360 and PS3. If consoles that are technologically more powerful can't surpass the Wii, there is no incentive to go back to the drawing board and create yet *another* technologically more powerful system. Right? That's the way I see it, anyway. It's silly to think Sony would say "we know innovative won over pretty graphics last gen, so here's our new console, the PS4, which has MORE PRETTIES!!!"

If the Wii holds onto the top spot (once it inevitably gets it) for a long time, I wouldn't expect to see anything on the next gen of consoles until 2012+.[/quote]I think I understand what you're saying, but tell me if I'm wrong.

The Wii sells like crazy for a while and MS/Sony have no motivation to create something new, thus prolonging the life of the current systems. Nintendo evneutally will release a Wii 2 or what have you with HD, etc., thus ending the sales of the Wii we now know, and starting over on their sale count while the PS3 and 360 press on.

Is that what you were saying? I could certainly see that happening.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo.[/quote]Gotchya.

Although, at that point I'd probably be of the thinking that if Nintendo completley changes Microsoft's and Sony's strategy all the while making money, even if they don't sell more units, they'd still "win" in that arbitrary sense of the word.

But I do think that's the likely outcome is that we'll see less cutting edge, and therefore cheaper hardware (and hopefully games) in the future. And really, aside from the SNES, I can't think of any system that "won" on its power. The PS1, PS2, NES, & Gameboy certainly weren't the powerhouses of their generations.
 
[quote name='daroga']Gotchya.

Although, at that point I'd probably be of the thinking that if Nintendo completley changes Microsoft's and Sony's strategy all the while making money, even if they don't sell more units, they'd still "win" in that arbitrary sense of the word.

But I do think that's the likely outcome is that we'll see less cutting edge, and therefore cheaper hardware (and hopefully games) in the future. And really, aside from the SNES, I can't think of any system that "won" on its power. The PS1, PS2, NES, & Gameboy certainly weren't the powerhouses of their generations.[/quote]

IIRC, the PS2 was considered powerful when it was released, plus it had DVD capabilities which was a real technological plus at the time.

At the time it was more powerful then it's competitors, namely the Gamecube and the Dreamcast
 
[quote name='camoor']IIRC, the PS2 was considered powerful when it was released, plus it had DVD capabilities which was a real technological plus at the time.

At the time it was more powerful then it's competitors, namely the Gamecube and the Dreamcast[/quote]It was talked up a lot, but it was under powered compared to the GC and Xbox. I'm uncertain of how it compared with the DC in terms of power. I'm fairly confident we would've seen some pretty amazing things out of that white box had it been allowed to live. Many of the DC->PS2 ports saw some downgrading in visuals when they moved over. Whether that is due to a pure power thing or just a sloppy port is anyone's guess.
 
[quote name='daroga']Gotchya.

Although, at that point I'd probably be of the thinking that if Nintendo completley changes Microsoft's and Sony's strategy all the while making money, even if they don't sell more units, they'd still "win" in that arbitrary sense of the word.

But I do think that's the likely outcome is that we'll see less cutting edge, and therefore cheaper hardware (and hopefully games) in the future. And really, aside from the SNES, I can't think of any system that "won" on its power. The PS1, PS2, NES, & Gameboy certainly weren't the powerhouses of their generations.[/quote]

If this is true, wouldn't we expect to see some sort of motion sensing attachment for the PS3 and 360? Is the Wii and Wii2 going to come out before Micrsoft and Sony jump on the motion sensing bandwagon? Yes I know the PS3 has sixaxis but it's not quite the same as the Wii.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Yes I know the PS3 has sixaxis but it's not quite the same as the Wii.[/quote]

In some cases, it's better.

See "Flow".
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't know if it's been addressed, but what will happen to the Wii when it can be found in stores with the regularity that the PS3 and 360 are? (on a related note, does anyone have data on Nintendo's shipments of Wiis? I got a launch unit via Amazon, but have *never* seen one for sale in a store, not that I'm looking)
[/QUOTE]

Of course, this is only one data point, but I was somewhat shocked last night when I went to my local Fred Meyers (a Pacific NW chain similar to Target but with groceries too) late last night. As usual I made my run on the Electronics section to see what games were clearanced. They had 6 Wii's in their case. This is the first time I've seen one in the wild since December. What was shocking, though, was that this was 10pm on a Sunday night. They get shipments on Saturday usually, so these must have been around all weekend.

Previously any shipments to that store got hoarded and ebayed (I was at Fry's 10 miles away one Saturday and a guy was bragging to everyone who would listen that he bought all the Wiis from that same Fred Meyer and was offering to sell them to people who missed out on the Fry's bundles).

So I knew something was up. I checked ebay and it seems they are selling for $275-$280 now. Thus, they have finally come down to the point where it is probably no longer worth selling them. While my sighting of them may have been somewhat of a fluke, the ebay demand seems to be slackening, which means they probably will start to show up more commonly in stores (or at least not be snatched up by ebayers and thus stick around longer).

The big test for Nintendo will be, as you say Myke, how well they continue to sell throughout this summer when they are more readily available. Then, will they become scarce again as Christmas shopping ramps up again this Fall?
 
[quote name='schuerm26']If this is true, wouldn't we expect to see some sort of motion sensing attachment for the PS3 and 360? Is the Wii and Wii2 going to come out before Micrsoft and Sony jump on the motion sensing bandwagon? Yes I know the PS3 has sixaxis but it's not quite the same as the Wii.[/QUOTE]

There have been rumors and rumored blueprints of Sony working on something. If it is true, it looks like it could be more advanced than the Wiimote. I'm sure MS is working on something to counter the wiimote too.
 
[quote name='io']
The big test for Nintendo will be, as you say Myke, how well they continue to sell throughout this summer when they are more readily available. Then, will they become scarce again as Christmas shopping ramps up again this Fall?[/quote]Part of that will depend on their release schedule. I know Iwata said they had hoped to get Metroid out in the spring to keep the flow of games going, but it turns out that it would have been unnecessary to say the least. If they can get the big 3 (really only a big 1 for me) out at decent intervals (say Metroid in August, Mario in October, SSBB in December), that could keep any downtime to a minimum. Not even sure what's supposed to come out in the summer and fall otherwise, don't think we have too many solid release dates.
 
[quote name='dpatel']There have been rumors and rumored blueprints of Sony working on something. If it is true, it looks like it could be more advanced than the Wiimote. I'm sure MS is working on something to counter the wiimote too.[/quote]The problem with both of them is, if it's not bundled with the system, perphierals or hardware addons never do well. Look at the bongos for the Cube, Eye Toy, Microphones, etc. Secondary addons never see software support like things in the box.

Even look at the 360. Because of those cores, developers are hesitant to make a "HDD Required" game.

There's really no way for Microsoft or Sony to have any success with a Wiimote-like addon. The install base of the device will be smaller than even the systems, so most companies (aside from the 1st parties) won't be willing to use a whole lot of money to support it.

I have the same concerns with the Wii. I just wish that Classic Controller had been bundled with every system so it would be easier to get a mix of traditional and motion-sensing games, ala the DS with it's mix of normal and touch-screen stuff.
 
[quote name='daroga']I have the same concerns with the Wii. I just wish that Classic Controller had been bundled with every system so it would be easier to get a mix of traditional and motion-sensing games, ala the DS with it's mix of normal and touch-screen stuff.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point.
 
[quote name='daroga']The problem with both of them is, if it's not bundled with the system, perphierals or hardware addons never do well. Look at the bongos for the Cube, Eye Toy, Microphones, etc. Secondary addons never see software support like things in the box.

Even look at the 360. Because of those cores, developers are hesitant to make a "HDD Required" game.

There's really no way for Microsoft or Sony to have any success with a Wiimote-like addon. The install base of the device will be smaller than even the systems, so most companies (aside from the 1st parties) won't be willing to use a whole lot of money to support it.

I have the same concerns with the Wii. I just wish that Classic Controller had been bundled with every system so it would be easier to get a mix of traditional and motion-sensing games, ala the DS with it's mix of normal and touch-screen stuff.[/QUOTE]

Yea, definitely. For Sony/MS, it might be too late. Most likely would be better to wait for the next system. I just hope the traditional controller style isn't lost completely. As you said, the DS style works best for me. I am way too precise and accurate with the traditional controller to give it completely up, but motion-sensing has a lot of potential for new game ideas. I kinda like the approach that the SIXAXIS took, just wish they would've spent more time getting more than just a tilt sensor. I will admit I was surprised at how well it worked. It seemed so last minute and tacked on, that I was almost convinced it would suck.
 
While I think the sixaxis is alright for some games (it makes fl0w enjoyable, and has a few other uses), it fuckin' infuriates me when it's as blatantly tacked on as it is in games like MLB2K7. If it's tacked on, fine; that's unavoidable. Just don't make it the default fucking setting.

I have a vendetta against 2K Games for making the dumbass sixaxis controls the default in that game, so forgive my ire; it really shows the limitations of it vs Wiimote in many ways.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']While I think the sixaxis is alright for some games (it makes fl0w enjoyable, and has a few other uses), it fuckin' infuriates me when it's as blatantly tacked on as it is in games like MLB2K7. If it's tacked on, fine; that's unavoidable. Just don't make it the default fucking setting.

I have a vendetta against 2K Games for making the dumbass sixaxis controls the default in that game, so forgive my ire; it really shows the limitations of it vs Wiimote in many ways.[/QUOTE]

Yea, it feels like many games just use it as a gimmick. For fl0w it works really well, and that was really what I was referring to. When used correctly, it can be a good addition, but some developers don't know when to use it correctly. I can see Warhawk and Lair also being pretty good with the tilt.
 
[quote name='botticus']Part of that will depend on their release schedule. I know Iwata said they had hoped to get Metroid out in the spring to keep the flow of games going, but it turns out that it would have been unnecessary to say the least. If they can get the big 3 (really only a big 1 for me) out at decent intervals (say Metroid in August, Mario in October, SSBB in December), that could keep any downtime to a minimum. Not even sure what's supposed to come out in the summer and fall otherwise, don't think we have too many solid release dates.[/QUOTE]

Well, even without those big hitters, it will be interesting to see how they sell. My point is that we may *finally* be getting to a time when they can be found in stores without knowing when a shipment is coming. So NOW will be the test if this cheaper system can become an impulse buy and thus have continued high sell-through. I'm assuming nearly all sales to this point have been to people actively seeking out the Wii. With it (possibly) sitting in more stores now, it will truly be accessible (for the first time) to casual gamers. What I mean is those that actually don't know much about it but see it in the store and consider getting one because of the price.
 
While its an interesting thought experiment, I dont think the long term success of the Wii will lengthen the lifespan of the 360/PS3. Why? Because if that success is by a wide margin, the losers dont want this kind of life extended, they want to respond as quickly as possible with a new console, to get a head start on the next round.

Everyone surely wants a long console cycle, competition makes it unlikely. The question will be, what will everyone decide to have as the focal point of their next console. Will everyone even be around? Will they launch within a similar time frame again? The market may be large and diverse enough that convergence is not necessary. That is to say, you can still go after higher tier rather than lower tier customers, rather than everyone releasing an HD waggle system.
 
I'm noticing a couple of interesting assertions being made.

-That Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will all have a next generation console.

-That Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will all receive adequate support for the entire span of this generation, which will seemingly be unneffected by console/software sales.

Neither of these is a very safe bet.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']While its an interesting thought experiment, I dont think the long term success of the Wii will lengthen the lifespan of the 360/PS3. Why? Because if that success is by a wide margin, the losers dont want this kind of life extended, they want to respond as quickly as possible with a new console, to get a head start on the next round.

Everyone surely wants a long console cycle, competition makes it unlikely. The question will be, what will everyone decide to have as the focal point of their next console. Will everyone even be around? Will they launch within a similar time frame again? The market may be large and diverse enough that convergence is not necessary. That is to say, you can still go after higher tier rather than lower tier customers, rather than everyone releasing an HD waggle system.[/quote]

Sony can't afford a quick turnaround though. Certainly not quicker than I think we will see Wii2, that is for sure.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Who says you have to profit across the life of the console?[/QUOTE]

Not Sony or Microsoft, apparently.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Who says you have to profit across the life of the console?[/quote]

So you are saying Sony would do a quick turnaround on PS3, lose tons of money on it, and then go instantly in to losing money on PS4? Not likely. You can't have a quick turnaround. PS3 can't drop in price soon enough, and then you are left splitting your crowd between a PS3 and PS4. Recipe for disaster.
 
Sara, for someone who seems to be so into the high-end video experience your credibility went out the window (for the nth time) with the "Zelda TP looks worse than an N64 game" comment. Thus any future comment you make about HD gaming and the relative appearance of any Wii/360/PS3 games or 720p/1080p programming in general must be taken with a chunk of salt...

You know, after playing the 360 tonight my kids and I broke out Super Mario Strikers. I hadn't really played that game much even though I've had it since release, and it was an absolute blast to play 4 player (we were all on the same team playing the CPU). The game LOOKS GREAT on my HDTV (and I was sitting very close since I had the one wired controller). I can't wait to see what they do for the online-enabled Wii version. But I guess that isn't "serious" enough for you guys.
Click to expand...

Well, you said it yourself, you broke out Super Mario Strikers, a later Gamecube game. I never said the Gamecube wasn't capable of good graphics: the component cable being super rare held it back, but other than that, I think even the first year games look as good as later PS2/Xbox games: Waverace, Luigi, they all look -really- good.

But seriously, do side by sides between Ocarina on Gamecube, Twilight Princess on Wii, and Ocarina on N64. Ocarina Cube > Twilight Princess Wii > Ocarina 64, and the fact that the Ocarina N64 can even hold up to the Wii version is completely and utterly sad: it'd be just like if PSOne Gran Turismo could hold up to PS2 Gran Turismo 4. Twilight Princess WIi may have more draw distance, more resolution, but the textures are blurry as hell and Link's shading looks ancient [kind of the same way they keep using the same sprites for Street Fighter games from 10 years ago]
 
If the PS4 is only marginally more powerful and can be forecasted to become profitable after the first few years, how is that different from the xbox/360 situation. Throw away a quick 4 billion to show everyone that they're for serious, and then jump out the gate early losing money again, but with better hopes.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']
Ocarina Cube > Twilight Princess Wii > Ocarina 64 [/QUOTE]

Wrong on all accounts.

Ocarina Cube got pushed to a higher resolution not capable on the 64, so that comparison is out, period.

Saying TP looks worse means you have issues. Very deep, very real, very disturbing issues. Maybe only relegated to your eyes, but the jury so far is out on that limitation.

You know I expect this kind of shit out of some of the other Sony fans (who I actually think might be required to wear helmets for their own safety), but not out of you. So spare us this condescension that apparently Nintendo fans aren't capable of 1) detecting beautiful art, and 2) detecting beautiful graphics, because that's really asinine to propose.
 
[quote name='Strell']Wrong on all accounts.

Ocarina Cube got pushed to a higher resolution not capable on the 64, so that comparison is out, period.

Saying TP looks worse means you have issues. Very deep, very real, very disturbing issues. Maybe only relegated to your eyes, but the jury so far is out on that limitation.

You know I expect this kind of shit out of some of the other Sony fans (who I actually think might be required to wear helmets for their own safety), but not out of you. So spare us this condescension that apparently Nintendo fans aren't capable of 1) detecting beautiful art, and 2) detecting beautiful graphics, because that's really asinine to propose.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so maybe these are the factors...

Wii Twilight princess: played on store kiosk

Ocarina of Time 64: played on my own television

Ocarina of Time Cube: played on my own television

I still have to say I was very impressed by the graphics on the Gamecube version of Ocarina of Time and needless to say, like everyone else, was very impressed by the Nintendo 64 version upon release.

Maybe I need to find a way to play the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']If the PS4 is only marginally more powerful and can be forecasted to become profitable after the first few years, how is that different from the xbox/360 situation. Throw away a quick 4 billion to show everyone that they're for serious, and then jump out the gate early losing money again, but with better hopes.[/quote]I think the difference is, Microsoft didn't go in with the intention of making money right away. They just wanted to get in. Sony was already making money. For them to go back to losing money doesn't make them "serious," they already were serious when they came out on top for two generations of gaming - it makes them kinda foolish. That and the company as a whole isn't doing all that fantastic to allow a financial disaster in the PlayStation division.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Who says you have to profit across the life of the console?[/QUOTE]

While that's true, on the whole Sony has relied upon its gaming division to keep the rest of the company (losing money for many consecutive fiscal quarters) above water. That's one of the main reasons the PS3 is such a massive gamble for them - the stakes are far greater than "will there be a PS4?"
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Maybe I need to find a way to play the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess.[/quote]Sara, I'll be honest with you. I'm not a graphics freak, but Iv'e avoided playing the N64 Zeldas solely because of their graphical quality. The foggy backgrounds and muddy textures make it hard for me to even tell where I'm supposed to go. It's atrocious. It's not good on the N64; it's not really any better on the Cube (where the resolution is higher, the framerate has issues elsewhere). I've not played or even seen it on the Virtual Console in progressive scan, so that might make a difference.

That being said, I played through the whole of Twilight Princess without any problems. There's one or two times in the game where the cinema scene's camera is placed in an unfortunate spot so that it's really zoomed in on a leaf or tree texture that you were never really supposed to see that close up and it does pixelate something fierce. If you only played the game up until you first turn into a wolf, you've not seen even 5% of the beauty that game has to offer. The opening farm scene is dull and lifeless compared to the wild, vibrant latter parts of the game.

So yeah, do what it takes to play the game on the Cube or the Wii (graphically, they're exactly the same by design. Though I'm still a firm bleiver that the wiimote make the expierence better, if for no other reason than the pointer-aiming). It's a solid, beautiful game in all respects.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Im surprised nobody pulled this statement out earlier. Your solution is to tell them to lower the price so they can LOSE MONEY like MS and Sony did and are?

Remind me NEVER to buy any stock for any company you or any relatives are involved with or work for.[/quote]

Ok I am a couple pages back catching up...but it has been assumed since approx nov of 2005 that the 360 was profitable by approx $75 a system...that isn't to say msft has made money in the games division, but that the system has been making them money for about a 1/2 year. Recently it was reiterated that the 360 was profitable by about the same amount of money...keep in mind that this fall the smaller cheaper chipset will be used for the cpu and graphics cards
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Ok I am a couple pages back catching up...but it has been assumed since approx nov of 2005 that the 360 was profitable by approx $75 a system...that isn't to say msft has made money in the games division, but that the system has been making them money for about a 1/2 year. Recently it was reiterated that the 360 was profitable by about the same amount of money...keep in mind that this fall the smaller cheaper chipset will be used for the cpu and graphics cards[/quote]As of the end of last month, they were still losing money on each 360 sold.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/04/microsoft_we_lo.html
 
[quote name='Strell']Not Sony or Microsoft, apparently.[/QUOTE]

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure both the PS2/PS1 both boasted profits for Sony. If they didn't, I don't see why both consoles would've lasted so long. MS does want to make a profit on their consoles, they are obviously not doing it for charity, but, to do so, they had to make some sacrifices (mainly not profiting with the xbox). I'm sure the 360 will turn a profit for them though.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Ok I am a couple pages back catching up...but it has been assumed since approx nov of 2005 that the 360 was profitable by approx $75 a system...that isn't to say msft has made money in the games division, but that the system has been making them money for about a 1/2 year. Recently it was reiterated that the 360 was profitable by about the same amount of money...keep in mind that this fall the smaller cheaper chipset will be used for the cpu and graphics cards[/QUOTE]

For some reason, schuerm26 thought that consoles were the sole source of profit for a gaming company. You have to remember that they make quite a bit on accessories and games.
 
There will not be a PS4 for a long while.
Let's not talk about that.

Twilight Princess is a beautiful game.
Sure, I wish it had looked better, but there's only so much you can do with the GC.

I'm glad I got the Wii version though as the next-gen low power consumption probably saved me a few cents that month.
 
Can we all agree on one thing?

I watched Because I Said So last night and it was the worst movie I have seen in years....

you think having three hot girls in their 20's would make the movie bearable...

you think maybe diane keaton could pull of a reasonably well acted performance...

you think maybe there could be a fluffy light hearted enjoyable comedy..

but no..it was 100 minutes of hell..my head urt after watching it...i felt robbed of all reason and raped in so many different ways...to quote a chracter in the film

"I'm so out of the loop here, I feel like jumping out that window!"

Ugh...worst movie ever...
 
[quote name='sarausagi']
you think having three hot girls in their 20's would make the movie bearable...
[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

This isn't the first time you've said something that makes me think you really aren't a girl named Sara...

Oh, and no comment on the movie since I've never heard of it ;).
 
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