Limbaugh admits playing his listeners for chumps

dennis_t

CAGiversary!
We all knew that Limbaugh listeners were easily led dupes, but now Big Pharma himself has admitted that he's been telling him things that he didn't personally believe in order to prop up unworthy leaders -- a practice known in some circles as LYING.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110806/content/rush_on_a_roll.guest.html

The way I feel is this: I feel liberated, and I'm going to tell you as plainly as I can why. I no longer am going to have to carry the water for people who I don't think deserve having their water carried. Now, you might say, "Well, why have you been doing it?" Because the stakes are high. Even though the Republican Party let us down, to me they represent a far better future for my beliefs and therefore the country's than the Democrat Party and liberalism does.

No, I'm not lying. Snerdley's concerned. I've not lied about anything I've said. Let me try this a different way. (sigh) I'm going to have to think about this. I tried to make it as clear as I can. I'm not going to eat my own, and I'm not going to throw my own overboard, particularly in a campaign, and particularly when the country is at war -- and I'm not going to do it for selfish reasons, and I'm not going to do it to stand out, and I'm not going to do it to be different. I'm not going to do it to draw attention from our enemies. I'm not going to do anything I do so that the Drive-By Media will like me or think that, "Ooooh, Limbaugh has changed! Ooooh, Limbaugh is coming around!" That's not my thinking. My thinking is: the left doesn't deserve to win. My thinking is: the country is imperiled with liberal victory. We may not have the best people on our side, but they're better than what we have on the left. But it has been difficult sometimes, when these people on our side have not had the guts to stand up for themselves, have not had the guts to explain what they really believe and why they're doing what they're doing. When they haven't had the courage to be who they are, when they haven't had the courage to be conservatives.

It has been a challenge to come in here and look at some of the weaknesses and some of the missed opportunities and try to cover for them and make up for them and make sure that the opportunities are not totally lost. But at some point you have to say, "I'm not them, and I can't assume the responsibility for their success. It isn't my job to make them succeed. It isn't my job to make elected Republicans look good if they can't do it themselves. It's not my job to make them understandable and understood if they can't do it themselves -- not in perpetuity, not ad infinitum." So all I can tell you is I feel a little liberated, and I think this is all going to result in a lot of cleansing in a number of areas.

In other words, I'll lie to you when I feel it's necessary, in order to keep the Republican Party in power. Now that they're not in power, I can tell the truth! How refreshing!

It'll be interesting to see if those played for fools continue to listen and believe in an admitted liar.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']We all knew that Limbaugh listeners were easily led dupes.[/QUOTE]

That's tantamount to calling 80% of conservatives morons. You and I both know you don't want to go down that road.

I hadn't listened to him in a good ten years, when I tuned him in a few weeks ago (couldn't get ESPN Radio for some reason), and it took me two minutes to realize I hadn't missed anything.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']That's tantamount to calling 80% of conservatives morons. You and I both know you don't want to go down that road.

I hadn't listened to him in a good ten years, when I tuned him in a few weeks ago (couldn't get ESPN Radio for some reason), and it took me two minutes to realize I hadn't missed anything.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't call them morons, per se. Unwilling to face unwelcome facts, more like. You will have to admit that people who listen to Limbaugh have little interest in objectively understanding reality, preferring to be spoon-fed whatever nonsense the Republican machine can generate (such as calling Democrats traitors, which is a lousy and despicable smear that they lapped up). Otherwise, his propaganda efforts and now-admitted outright lies would not be tolerated and those listeners would tune out.
 
99% of political entities on radio, TV, or print have a agenda and will do anything to fulfill it. That's why most things have to be taken with a grain of sal even if you agree with their political philosophy. Power corrupts, and all that...
 
[quote name='dennis_t']I wouldn't call them morons, per se. Unwilling to face unwelcome facts, more like. You will have to admit that people who listen to Limbaugh have little interest in objectively understanding reality, preferring to be spoon-fed whatever nonsense the Republican machine can generate (such as calling Democrats traitors, which is a lousy and despicable smear that they lapped up). Otherwise, his propaganda efforts and now-admitted outright lies would not be tolerated and those listeners would tune out.[/quote]

As a former Republican, I quote this here post for truth.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']We all knew that Limbaugh listeners were easily led dupes[/QUOTE]

We all know that overgeneralizations like that are only made by morons.

I listen...not regularly, but maybe a few times a month when local sports radio is dull. I don't agree with everything he says, but it still can be interesting radio.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']We all knew that Limbaugh listeners were easily led dupes[/QUOTE]

We all know that overgeneralizations like that are only made by morons.

I listen...not regularly, but maybe a few times a month when local sports radio is dull. I don't agree with everything he says, but it still can be interesting radio and he does make good points sometimes.

(such as calling Democrats traitors, which is a lousy and despicable smear that they lapped up
Yeah. That's much worse than calling Bush/republicans "the real terrorists."
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Yeah. That's much worse than calling Bush/republicans "the real terrorists."[/QUOTE]

Who said that? Source? Link?

I wouldn't agree with that statement and I would not support it. And I would not try to defend it by saying something similar, like, "Well, President Bush said if the Democrats win, then terrorists win and America loses." A smear is a smear, regardless who utters it.

And now, back to my original point -- How do you feel, knowing now that Limbaugh was lying to you about his personal opinion of Republican leaders just to keep the party in power? Does this affect your desire to give him any credence? Can his credibility be damaged among his audience, or will they shrug off the lies and keep listening?
 
Conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan weighs in:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/11/liars.html

I'm sorry I don't feel great sympathy for the legions of conservative commentators who kept drinking and spewing the Bush Kool-Aid, knowing full well it had nothing to do with conservatism, until they are now forced to reveal the truth. Here's an amazing quote from Rush Limbaugh yesterday:

"There have been a bunch of things going on in Congress, some of this legislation coming out of there that I have just cringed at, and it has been difficult coming in here, trying to make the case for it when the people who are supposedly in favor of it can't even make the case themselves - and to have to come in here and try to do their jobs."

All together now: Awwww. I'm so sorry Limbaugh had to lie through his teeth to try and keep in the good graces of his Republican masters. Have you ever heard of intellectual honesty, Mr Limbaugh? You can look it up in the dictionary.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']I wouldn't call them morons, per se. Unwilling to face unwelcome facts, more like. You will have to admit that people who listen to Limbaugh have little interest in objectively understanding reality, preferring to be spoon-fed whatever nonsense the Republican machine can generate (such as calling Democrats traitors, which is a lousy and despicable smear that they lapped up). Otherwise, his propaganda efforts and now-admitted outright lies would not be tolerated and those listeners would tune out.[/QUOTE]

So it's fair game for any radio commentator. Both sides have their propaganda mouthpieces.
 
Sullivan's been pretty disenfranchised with Republicans for a few months now. Then again, you deal with the day to day cognitive dissonance that arises from being a gay man whose job it is to report on the party you support, the party of the queer-haters.

To be fair, the "big government conservatives" that have been running the show since 2000 have dissuaded many self-identified "conservatives," regardless of sexual orientation.

The only thing I have to say about Limbaugh is that, like every other radio host, he needs a "hook" to keep you listening. Most radio hosts do this in the form of being outrageous characters or saying outrageous things. Michael Savage is the worst of the bunch, but the easiest to see through, IMO.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'] Michael Savage is the worst of the bunch, but the easiest to see through, IMO.[/QUOTE]


You know, I thought he was liberal, but I couldn't stand his voice or delivery enough to care to find out.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You know, I thought he was liberal, but I couldn't stand his voice or delivery enough to care to find out.[/QUOTE]

Randy Rhodes has the same voice. Perhaps you were listening to her?
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You know, I thought he was liberal, but I couldn't stand his voice or delivery enough to care to find out.[/QUOTE]

What was that about conservatives being morons?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Randy Rhodes has the same voice. Perhaps you were listening to her?[/QUOTE]

No, it was Savage.

Msut, I'm waiting for you to post something relevant, much less intelligent. Until then, feel free to fuck off.
 
The sad truth of it all is that people want to listen to people who will lie to them and champion their political beliefs. A lot of conservatives don't want to hear that their party has abandoned the ideals of Reagan and Goldwater.

By the same coin, liberals don't want to hear that their party is incompetent and ineffective, and that they only won because people were tired of the Republicans, not because of their ideals or platform or agenda.

Whether its Limbaugh or Baghdad Bob, people like being lied to and told everything is OK and that they're right. Bush is a great president... Tom DeLay isn't completely corrupt... There are no Americans in Baghdad!
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Msut, I'm waiting for you to post something relevant, much less intelligent. Until then, feel free to fuck off.[/QUOTE]

Whatever man if you thought for even one second Savage was Liberal then you are on some serious meds.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']By the same coin, liberals don't want to hear that their party is incompetent and ineffective, and that they only won because people were tired of the Republicans, not because of their ideals or platform or agenda.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree with you on two points:

(1) Liberals KNOW the Dems are incompetent and ineffective. That's why they've been so frustrated with the national party for so long. But what's the alternative? Republicans have shown no interest in reaching out and accommodating liberal views, in so-called "bipartisanship." Under Bush, bipartisanship has become, "Agree with my point of view or get left off the bus."

The funniest parts of the Daily Show coverage of the past few days for me has been the constant jabs at the Democrats' incompetence. Let's all of us hope they get their act together now.

(2) I am certain that disgust with Republican corruption, as well as the war in Iraq, was the major contribution to the Democratic victory. But they do have a platform and agenda, which you will see them unrolling in the first days of next year. Raising the minimum wage, fixing the Medicare prescription drug debacle, and funding stem cell research are all highly popular issues with the public that Dems support, and you can't tell me that didn't affect people's votes. (Especially with the success of the Michael J. Fox ad and the assistance it lent McCaskill in winning her Senate seat.)
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The sad truth of it all is that people want to listen to people who will lie to them and champion their political beliefs. A lot of conservatives don't want to hear that their party has abandoned the ideals of Reagan and Goldwater.

By the same coin, liberals don't want to hear that their party is incompetent and ineffective, and that they only won because people were tired of the Republicans, not because of their ideals or platform or agenda.

Whether its Limbaugh or Baghdad Bob, people like being lied to and told everything is OK and that they're right. Bush is a great president... Tom DeLay isn't completely corrupt... There are no Americans in Baghdad![/QUOTE]

I think that's pretty astute, on all points.

EDIT: I'll backpedal a bit and say that dennis_t is right in that many democrats have long knows the party is seriously disorganized (to say the least) ... but ever since we/they basically blank-checked the invasion of Iraq, I can't shake this feeling that much (though far from most) of the Democratic leadership is simply defined by opportunism. The defining difference between "moderate" Dems and the Rebublicans who were doing whatever they can to distance themselves from Bush before the election is simply when they decided to jump ship.

/disillusioned rant over
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']That's tantamount to calling 80% of conservatives morons. You and I both know you don't want to go down that road.[/QUOTE]

I'll say it...

81% of conservatives are morons and the rest and just asses.
 
[quote name='David85']I'll say it...

81% of conservatives are morons and the rest and just asses.[/QUOTE]

So says the voice of reason...

*sigh*

If you don't listen to someone, it's hard to criticise someone for doing so. There's a guy in Atlanta named the Kimmer, and he's even more right than Rush. I don't listen to him because I necessarily agree with his points, I listen to him because he's hilarious, and he'll occasionally have a good point. I listen to Boortz sometimes when I'm in Atlanta just to hear a different POV. I'd listen to some liberal hosts, but they don't seem to be on my radio. *ZING*
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I'd listen to some liberal hosts, but they don't seem to be on my radio. *ZING*[/QUOTE]
They'll be easier to find on your dial once we bring back the Fairness Doctrine. :lol:
 
[quote name='David85']I'll say it...

81% of conservatives are morons and the rest and just asses.[/quote]

Are you sure you're not talking about Republicans.

There's a big difference between conservatives and Republicans.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']They'll be easier to find on your dial once we bring back the Fairness Doctrine. :lol:[/quote]

If the Fairness Doctrine is actually enforced, CNN will become watchable again. I can't wait. :D
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I'd listen to some liberal hosts, but they don't seem to be on my radio. *ZING*[/QUOTE]

This could argue to the superiority of the liberal mind, as they don't need to be fed their thoughts by some left-wing radio blowhard, and thus don't listen to Air America and their ilk. ;)
 
[quote name='Iron Clad Burrito']If the Fairness Doctrine is actually enforced, CNN will become watchable again. I can't wait. :D[/QUOTE]
I would look forward to watching all the talking heads explode on FOX News.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']I would look forward to watching all the talking heads explode on FOX News.[/QUOTE]

Silicone usually melts.

But anyways, I feel left out on everything. Republicans think I'm really liberal, Democrats think I'm really conservative. I seem to fall on the wrong side of all the issues to be a moderate to either party.

Oh well...
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Silicone usually melts.

But anyways, I feel left out on everything. Republicans think I'm really liberal, Democrats think I'm really conservative. I seem to fall on the wrong side of all the issues to be a moderate to either party.

Oh well...[/QUOTE]

Them's the breaks for a moderate. When politicians say "we need to eliminate partisanship," (such as Bush during the election 2000, or Reid/Pelosi more recently), they often fail to consider that compromise means they don't get their way on some issues.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Them's the breaks for a moderate. When politicians say "we need to eliminate partisanship," (such as Bush during the election 2000, or Reid/Pelosi more recently), they often fail to consider that compromise means they don't get their way on some issues.[/quote]

Wait, you mean we have to accept gays as more than second class citizens?! fuck eliminating partisanship, I thought the lefties were going to just let me have prayer in schools. :(
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Silicone usually melts.

But anyways, I feel left out on everything. Republicans think I'm really liberal, Democrats think I'm really conservative. I seem to fall on the wrong side of all the issues to be a moderate to either party.

Oh well...[/QUOTE]

I can relate. When I lived in Boston, I was considered a right wing nut. Though since I moved to Georgia, now I'm a left wing nut. That's the price of being a libertarian, I guess.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I can relate. When I lived in Boston, I was considered a right wing nut. Though since I moved to Georgia, now I'm a left wing nut. That's the price of being a libertarian, I guess.[/QUOTE]

Really. You comment on one issue you're a communist, the next a fascist (to the hyper-extreme people).
 
[quote name='dennis_t']I have to disagree with you on two points:

(1) Liberals KNOW the Dems are incompetent and ineffective. That's why they've been so frustrated with the national party for so long. But what's the alternative? Republicans have shown no interest in reaching out and accommodating liberal views, in so-called "bipartisanship." Under Bush, bipartisanship has become, "Agree with my point of view or get left off the bus."

The funniest parts of the Daily Show coverage of the past few days for me has been the constant jabs at the Democrats' incompetence. Let's all of us hope they get their act together now.

(2) I am certain that disgust with Republican corruption, as well as the war in Iraq, was the major contribution to the Democratic victory. But they do have a platform and agenda, which you will see them unrolling in the first days of next year. Raising the minimum wage, fixing the Medicare prescription drug debacle, and funding stem cell research are all highly popular issues with the public that Dems support, and you can't tell me that didn't affect people's votes. (Especially with the success of the Michael J. Fox ad and the assistance it lent McCaskill in winning her Senate seat.)[/QUOTE]
The people that enjoy the Daily Show aren't your average Democrats... The people that recognize and are concerned about the Republican party moving away from their core values, aren't your average Republicans.

I shouldn't make a blanket statement like "people want to", I should say, "many people". A lot of people do not want their views and belief systems challenged by anyone. A lot of people don't want to think critically. Republicans like that will listen to Rush Limbaugh, Democrats will listen to Paul Begala or James Carville. At least Carville admits he's a house organ, thats essentially what Limbaugh alludes to being in his comments.

I think the Democrats will unveil their new, cogent platform and new centrist message when the next session of congress starts, and ultimately it will do good things for the party, and that in turn will get them more support. But, none of this is what got them in office. They're still terrible at politics. Not that they're terrible at running the country, but they're terrible at presenting a consistent message, getting support, and playing the political games that the Republicans have mastered. The Democrats didn't do much to get themselves elected, though moving to the center, intentional or not (and with them taking Lamont over Lieberman, and sabotaging Paul Hackett's candidacy, I'd say not), did help. But, they'll have a great opportunity to show why they should stay in office.

The centrist shift could be attributed to Dean, he supported Hackett and pushed for centrist candidates in traditionally Republican states. They went to Virginia, and North Carolina, and Kentucky, and Tennessee... Byaaaah!
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I shouldn't make a blanket statement like "people want to", I should say, "many people". [/quote]
No no no no no. I prefer being called either a moron or a just an @ss.
wooper.gif


[quote name='David85']I'll say it...

81% of conservatives are morons and the rest and just asses.[/quote]
With all kidding aside, at least I know what David thinks of me. Nothing better than being reduced to naught more than a label.

[quote name='CocheseUGA'][quote name='mykevermin']Randy Rhodes has the same voice. Perhaps you were listening to her?[/quote] No, it was Savage. [/quote] That was classic! MKM, probably one of the funniest guys here makes an hilarious comparison and Cochese completely misses it. Me, I love the voice. I hear far too few Jews arguing for conservative values.

As for anyone thinking Mike Savage a liberal, I'm guessing they probably tuned in, heard him tearing Bush and the Republicans in power apart, figured Savage was of the opposing party, and walked away with that initial impression.

To me, that's Savages' gimmick; tear apart what he believes most in. Or something along those lines. Sort of like when a cop has a kid who breaks the law, he's that much harder on the child, having a higher standard to live up to. Just a thought.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']To me, that's Savages' gimmick; tear apart what he believes most in. Or something along those lines. Sort of like when a cop has a kid who breaks the law, he's that much harder on the child, having a higher standard to live up to. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]
You're right about Savage, the party distanced themselves a little bit from him after his last gimmick (ultra conservative, gays should get aids and die, etc), so he rips them now. Unlike most, he really doesn't even need listeners, Rockstar Energy Drink will always back his shows.

As for Limbaugh... After these comments, its pretty hard to deny that he's anything but a house organ. People like to listen to people they agree with, its human nature.
 
[quote name='dafoomie'] Unlike most, he really doesn't even need listeners, Rockstar Energy Drink will always back his shows.[/quote] That's my biggest problem with Mike. Not that his son owns Rockstar drinks... if you want to sell a product go for it. My problem is...
...well there was that HUGE billboard in Oregon with the Rockstar girl... in the bikini and looking extrememly vacuous let's say. Again, that's what Rockstar wants for their image, that's what sells their product, fine.

BUT don't you then go talking about morality and standards to me. You're a grade-A hypocrite if you'll throw trash advertisments around because it pads your wallet but then lecture to people about the benefits of living an ethical life and read from th e bible to your audience.

As for Limbaugh... After these comments, its pretty hard to deny that he's anything but a house organ. People like to listen to people they agree with, its human nature.
eh. I heard the show that OP quoted. I didn't have a problem.

He's clear, he knows (from his point of view) that the liberal agenda is dangerous to the safety of America. So while republicans in congress did absolutely nothing meaningful over the past years despite having the power to get bills through, he's been their cheerleader to keep conservatives energized and encourage them to vote republican rather than democrat.

I understand what he meant. But who listens to any radio show, to any tv talking head and says, "Oh. He said that. So now I think that."?!

Maybe when you're young and impressionable, but then you start thinking for yourself.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']But who listens to any radio show, to any tv talking head and says, "Oh. He said that. So now I think that."?![/QUOTE]

The process doesn't work that clearly. It's more akin, I'd argue, to what social movements researchers call "collective identity." It is, more or less, an easy way of refining, adding to, or removing from your repertoire of behaviors and attitudes based on the attitudes and behaviors of people who you identify as most like you.

If you think of yourself as a hardcore gamer, for instance, you probably find that you share a lot of attitudes with other self-identified hardcore gamers. Do we hate Sony and love Nintendo? Perhaps. Gaming, as an example, has more flexibility than political ideologies (or ideologies as a principle, period). However, people will often challenge others here based on their knowledge (or lack of). If you don't know the PS3 comes out this Friday, or where the good spots are to get a Wii on Sunday, you will find your self-recognition as a "hardcore gamer" challenged by others, and eventually, yourself (via your failure to portray your personality as "authentic" or "legitimate").

So, I don't think people consciously think "Limbaugh said X, Y, and Z, so now I believe X, Y, and Z." It's more subtle and built up over time. If you're the kind of person who thinks Limbaugh is the bee's knees, you'll accept his authority on an issue, or, rather, fail to challenge the knowledge base you think he comes from (very misinformed, in the case of Parkinson's Disease, for example). If you consider yourself "very conservative," and hear him say something, and follow that up with numerous callers either (1) saying they agree with him 100% or (2) expounding upon the idea they agree with, then you're more likely to find yourself thinking that it's a reasonable notion than if you consider yourself "moderate" or "liberal."
 
[quote name='mykevermin']hear him say something, and follow that up with numerous callers either (1) saying they agree with him 100% or (2) expounding upon the idea they agree with, then you're more likely to find yourself thinking that it's a reasonable notion than if you consider yourself "moderate" or "liberal."[/quote]

It's been a while since I've listened to his show (honestly, he never gave me a stiffy when listening to him, even when I was conservative, so I sorta forgot about him), but doesn't he have something set up called like 'The Ditto Cam' or 'Ditto Network'? Could that have to do with putting emphasis on the people who agree with him to sort of bolster his opinion?

I suppose you could make a similar connection with O'Reily- Call into his show to agree with him, and he'll send you his $25 'Culture Warrior' book for free. ;)
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Really. You comment on one issue you're a communist, the next a fascist (to the hyper-extreme people).[/QUOTE]

And here I thought you people just didn't want to pay taxes.

Ow! Ouch! Put down the doobies and rifles! I kid, I kid!
 
[quote name='Hex']It's been a while since I've listened to his show (honestly, he never gave me a stiffy when listening to him, even when I was conservative, so I sorta forgot about him), but doesn't he have something set up called like 'The Ditto Cam' or 'Ditto Network'? Could that have to do with putting emphasis on the people who agree with him to sort of bolster his opinion?

I suppose you could make a similar connection with O'Reily- Call into his show to agree with him, and he'll send you his $25 'Culture Warrior' book for free. ;)[/QUOTE]

I don't know what the ditto cam (it's actual name) adds, other than perks to be a "subscriber" to Limbaugh online. Now, of course people can be more convincing visually (think of the arguments about the Kennedy/Nixon debates, and how Nixon's appearance lost them for him, regardless of his substantive comments); I don't think, however, that the video quality of online cams can really convey that kind of impression (since oftentimes people's facial expressions are blurred/distorted, it kills its effectiveness).

That would be an interesting study, for sure (fer shur!), but that's not my bag.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So, I don't think people consciously think "Limbaugh said X, Y, and Z, so now I believe X, Y, and Z." It's more subtle and built up over time. [/quote] Oh absolutely, I didn't mean it was a conscious train of thought: "I worship Bill Maher, he says X is heinous and makes jokes about it, so I will think the same thing." At least, not to a mature and fully developed mind which makes their own choices and when they hear a fact or sides to an issue, they want to come to their own conclusion after researching and verifying how true what was just reported them is.

If you're the kind of person who thinks Limbaugh is the bee's knees, you'll accept his authority on an issue, or, rather, fail to challenge the knowledge
Eh. You an I know that sadly there will always be insecure and easily led sheep out there in all mediums, be it newspaper readers, magazine readers, tv watchers, AM and even the idiot know-it-all morning FM DJs trying to talk like they know how better to run the world (and apologies to my old friend Crosby who is exactly that)- listeners. And I fear the day when all of society reflects Montags wife and their friends from Bradbury's Fahenheit 451, where the responsibility of thinking for oneself is beyond ones' ability.

But the good news is that I hear callers quite often lamenting, "I agree with you on a lot of things but you're way out of line with Blah Blah Blah."


A man I look up to once taught me that no one on this earth will not let me down at least once. Not intentionally, but owing to the fact that we all fall, do stoopid things and quite obviously, we're all different. If there's ever a time when you sit back and say, "I agree with So and So about absolutely everything," you've got a real problem there. That should never be the case; it isn't natural and it isn't healthy.

We don't argue for the sake of it... ...okay, sometimes I do, but that's the bugs bunny antagonist in me, I enjoy pushing people's buttons from time to time... but in general, we don't go around disagreeing with people to prove we have differing ideas. Because it's normal and far better to have a collection of differing thoughts bouncing around freely than for everyone to be of one mind. Because it's possible that one mind is wrong.
 
You people claiming Rush is a liar and had lied to his audience have probably never listened to him. You get your opinions spoon fed to you by your leftist brethren like Al frankin and joe biden.

I've listened to Rush for years. In some cases, I consider him a conservative whacko, but he's never given republicans quarter during the 2 bush terms for their failure to lead and take charge. He's given harsh criticism of Republicans going along with democrat initiatives and creating their own versions of spending bills to pander to voters. In fact, he's repeatedly complained about Bush's capitulation to all the democrat spending programs rammed through congress with republican compliance, (no child -kennedy; campaign finnace- mccain feingold; senior prescription drugs - Rockefeller) as well as trade policies like steel and canadian lumber tariffs that please a select few and end up hurting everyone.

If anything, his mantra this election season has been villifying the leftists for being leftists. He's only "lied" in the sense of lying by omission, apoligizing for scandalous republican behavior by pointing out equally bad democrat scandals which the major media choose not to publish.

So, your so-called "pattern of lies" is Rush just admitting his bias or his own blind following of the cause for the greater good of the country. This is something you already know and practice everyday as a democrat by having good intentions and ends that justify the means. Now that the republicans lost, he feels he can say what's really been on his mind becuase nothing's at stake save the principles of his party.

If democrats were to engage in this type of introspection years ago, they may not have had to wait such a long time to regain control of congress. As it stands now, they only took it back by a defalt. Democrats never take the time to reflect on their philosophy or message. They just claim no one is hearing them, they haven't articulated it well enough, or that people are just too dumb to understand their message when they lose. They're never big enough to blame thenselves for a loss, it's always someone else's fault.

So Limbaugh lied, probably more to himself than to his "mindnumbed" listeners. Why exactly do you give a crap anyway? Perhaps you base your sense of worth by the faults in your enemies.
 
NCLB was a Republican initiative (and an underfunded one at that). Who do we blame for that, since it appears that it would have been more underfunded (if you're correct about Kennedy wanting to...y'know...pay for it)? The Democrats for soaking the public again, or the Republicans for not wanting to pay for our children's future?

As for the rest of your post...I'm gonna get some more coffee instead. You're more or less suggesting (1) Limbaugh is honest with his listeners in some kind of "tough love" manner, and (2) you somehow think that Limbaugh's complaining of Republican capitulation to Democrats (yes...that's IT! We've been a "rubber stamp congress" for Democrats this whole time!) is not an indication of his partisan allegiance, but, rather, one of fairness and moderation. Because the hallmark of the moderate is to grouse about all the myriad times Democrats have gotten their way since 2001. :roll:
 
[quote name='bmulligan']If anything, his mantra this election season has been villifying the leftists for being leftists. He's only "lied" in the sense of lying by omission, apoligizing for scandalous republican behavior by pointing out equally bad democrat scandals which the major media choose not to publish.

So, your so-called "pattern of lies" is Rush just admitting his bias or his own blind following of the cause for the greater good of the country. This is something you already know and practice everyday as a democrat by having good intentions and ends that justify the means. Now that the republicans lost, he feels he can say what's really been on his mind becuase nothing's at stake save the principles of his party.[/quote]

And now that he is an admitted liar, why should anyone believe what he says now?

That's why you have intellectual honesty, so that people will continue to believe you in good times and bad. Rush has admitted he has no intellectual honesty.

If democrats were to engage in this type of introspection years ago, they may not have had to wait such a long time to regain control of congress. As it stands now, they only took it back by a defalt. Democrats never take the time to reflect on their philosophy or message. They just claim no one is hearing them, they haven't articulated it well enough, or that people are just too dumb to understand their message when they lose. They're never big enough to blame thenselves for a loss, it's always someone else's fault.

So Limbaugh lied, probably more to himself than to his "mindnumbed" listeners. Why exactly do you give a crap anyway? Perhaps you base your sense of worth by the faults in your enemies.

Oh trust me, there are plenty of people who sympathize with the Democrats and still are willing to blame them for a share of what's gone on these past few years. They completely rolled over for Bush, allowed him and other Repugs to cow them into compliance, and didn't ask the tough questions about the war in Iraq that might have kept us out of that godforsaken mess.

Look back on my posts of that time. Over and over again, in argument after argument, I pressed one point -- if we are fighting a war against terror, invading Iraq would mean attacking in the wrong direction, against the wrong enemy, and would mire us in a Middle Eastern bloodbath. And now, day after day, the facts are proving my argument correct. If the Dems had pushed that point with some vigor, they might have won even more Congressional seats this month.

Why I care about Rush's lies is that they swayed the opinion of people who place less emphasis on critical thought, relying instead on ideology or post-9/11 fear and paranoia to help them muddle through issues. These are the people who, led by Rush's pied-piper act, supported the war in Iraq, supported cutbacks in stem-cell research, said nothing about pork-barrel spending, said nothing about Congress relinquishing its oversight responsibilities.

If he is the maverick truth-teller he claims to be -- "America's truth detector," and yes, I have listened -- perhaps we would have avoided some of these fuck-ups. But no, he's really just a lying sack of shit.
 
Why I care about Rush's lies is that they swayed the opinion of people who place less emphasis on critical thought, relying instead on ideology or post-9/11 fear and paranoia to help them muddle through issues.


Still waiting to hear why this makes him different than most democratic hacks. If you're looking for intellectual honesty when dealing with party loyalty and elections, you're looking in the wrong place.


Oh trust me, there are plenty of people who sympathize with the Democrats and still are willing to blame them for a share of what's gone on these past few years.
Sure, other people may sympathize, but democrats themselves never question their own motives, faults, inconsistencies, and allegiences. Rush is doing just that. You call him a big fat liar, but I say good for him.

This is old news too. I heard him say this just after the election almost 2 weeks ago.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Still waiting to hear why this makes him different than most democratic hacks. If you're looking for intellectual honesty when dealing with party loyalty and elections, you're looking in the wrong place.

Sure, other people may sympathize, but democrats themselves never question their own motives, faults, inconsistencies, and allegiences. Rush is doing just that. You call him a big fat liar, but I say good for him.[/QUOTE]

"Everyone does it" is a rather cowardly, weak and poor excuse for an argument, bmug. Especially when trying to excuse Limbaugh, who has always held himself out as a "truth detector" who could be trusted to do your thinking for you. If he's such a spot-on commentator, why does he deserve such a weak out?

And Rush heroically questioning his own motives and faults and allegiences? Bullshit. A peek at his web site today shows him childishly insulting the incoming House speaker (Bela Pelosi?), and pushing back against Democratic plans to raise the minimum wage. Not a word about where Republicans went wrong, no soul-searching, no attempt to redeem conservatism from the Republican disaster. Just more water-carrying from a lying hack.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']"Everyone does it" is a rather cowardly, weak and poor excuse for an argument, bmug. Especially when trying to excuse Limbaugh, who has always held himself out as a "truth detector" who could be trusted to do your thinking for you. If he's such a spot-on commentator, why does he deserve such a weak out?

And Rush heroically questioning his own motives and faults and allegiences? Bullshit. A peek at his web site today shows him childishly insulting the incoming House speaker (Bela Pelosi?), and pushing back against Democratic plans to raise the minimum wage. [/quote]

I rarely- if ever- hear Democrats make such childish and unfunny "jokes" against their rivals.

if republicans are so much for the "common man" and actually helping the working american then why do they fight at all costs an honest working Mininum Wage? why do they give big buisness the tax break and raise taxes for small buisnesses? why do they take bribes and blame their political opponents? why do they molest children then blame gays?


[quote name='dennis_t']Not a word about where Republicans went wrong, no soul-searching, no attempt to redeem conservatism from the Republican disaster. Just more water-carrying from a lying hack.[/quote]

of course not, because a "real man" never apologizes for his mistakes, only blames others. and of course, with Rush, you always have to remember that he's a junkie...
...and there's the Junkie's Patern, they all fall into it:
they tell themselves: if i lie, then i admit i lie later and dont make a big deal of it, then everyone will forgive me, and then i can go lie again; repeat until fat, useless, and addicted to as much drugs as i can fit into my 12-inch mouth.

thanks for writing this dennis.
 
[quote name='TheBigR']I rarely- if ever- hear Democrats make such childish and unfunny "jokes" against their rivals.[/quote]

Give me a break. If you read just what is posted on this board it's laughable you believe that.

[quote name='TheBigR']if republicans are so much for the "common man" and actually helping the working american then why do they fight at all costs an honest working Mininum Wage?[/quote]

Why do you feel raising the minimum wage, which affects a tiny minority, is helping the "common man"?

[quote name='TheBigR']why do they give big buisness the tax break and raise taxes for small buisnesses? why do they take bribes and blame their political opponents? why do they molest children then blame gays?[/QUOTE]

Given the energy bill I won't argue on tax breaks for big businesses, but pray tell us what these raised taxes are they've implemented for small businesses. I certainly don't know of any.

And intimating that most/all Republicans are involved in bribe-taking and child molestation is insipid.
 
Whoa. Raising the minimum wage doesn't help anyone but the unions (who base their contract rate off federal minimum wage levels) and politicians that rely on intellectual ignorance/laziness in the electorate to gain votes. But that's a schooling that would need a whole nother thread.

-------

As for Limbaugh being a liar about issues relating to this current (and now out of power) crop of the Republican party; what's it supposed to mean? That we now discredit every single other thing he says in championing the conservative cause?

I think he explained where he was wrong on this matter.

To put it in perspective though, I can see how/why he'd do it and I see it happen in every political discussion with folks I deal with every day.

If you are a conservative, a true conservative-- you only have one party to support: Republican.

If you are a liberal, a true liberal-- you only have one party to support: Democrat.

That's the way it shakes down really. Now that often puts you in a position where even if you don't like what your party stands for at times because it's in the wrong direction from your political opinions... you still have to support them due to looking at the greater "war" (in political terms) being more important than your personal distaste for your party.

It happens on both sides of the spectrum.

Making up some numbers--- in general, it's the middle 60% of voters, the so called "moderates", that are what swings elections. The liberal 20% and the conservative 20% are stranded with their parties sink or swim.

I don't think it's right. But it's what parties do, and often what party supporters (the voters) do. As an example, here in PA 2004 elections for senator had Arlen Specter (R) incumbent running against Pat Toomey (R) in the Rep. primaries. Specter is a RINO, basically a Democrat, and Toomey's view were much more conservative, much more in line with true Republican ideals and what the conservative base would want. But powerful Republican leaders (Santorum, Bush) all came and pushed for Specter to be chosen as the party candidate again. Because he was the incumbent, the experienced one. Now, as most people would say (supporters or haters), Rick Santorum is about as conservative a Republican as we have ever had in this state. Yet he was right there supporting the wrong candidate in the primaries because it's political protocol to stick with the guy you know has been able to win votes before (read: the incumbent). Even if it flies in the face of your core beliefs, that's what happens. And it happens with voters, radio talk-show hosts, media, etc as well.

It doesn't make me see Limbaugh any differently than I ever have. I go by my own personal political compass and measure his ideas against mine, vice versa. And I choose the one that is better, discarding the one that is inferior.

To say that Limbaugh's listeners are "spoonfed" what to think by Limbaugh operates off of a faulty premise. He is only a man that espouses his political views on the radio, leaving listeners to judge the quality of his views. And judging by the fact that his political views have garnered him success and fame (gained because people want to listen to him) while liberal talkshow host after liberal talkshow host fails miserably outside of public radio (where making money comes second to driving liberal agendas)--- I'm going to say he's doing a fine job. He wouldn't be where he was if there weren't people out there WANTING to hear someone that shares their same views. Just as AirAmerica was a colossal failure because most americans do NOT share those liberal views.
 
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