- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='gizmogc']Not really. If Toshiba is really working on a 51GB disc then it won't matter, right?[/QUOTE]

Blu-ray won't stop at 50GB. And, the 51GB HD-DVD is currently being worked on, while 50GB BDs are available. And since BD has about 10GBs more per layer, HD-DVD will continue to lag behind in this department.
 
[quote name='angrywolf']Isn't Blu-Ray winning the format wars right now anyway? As for me, I prefer...old school DVDs. The quality difference between DVD and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray isn't as drastic as it was between VHS and DVD so I'll just hold out until one of them wins...and the price for a player goes down to like $50 or something:lol:[/QUOTE]


Actually, I'd say it's more drastic.
 
[quote name='Buster Rod G']I honestly do not see either format "winning." HD-DVD and Blu-ray are going to end up with each having their own small part of the market, while DVD continues to dominate. It happened with SACD and DVD-Audio with both losing out to the CD and it will happen here too.[/quote]

They are not the same at all.
One of these formats is the type of disc you'll be buying in five years.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Blu-ray won't stop at 50GB. And, the 51GB HD-DVD is currently being worked on, while 50GB BDs are available. And since BD has about 10GBs more per layer, HD-DVD will continue to lag behind in this department.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, I think I read an article where they actually had quad-layer Blu-ray discs already, just no blu-ray drive can read them. Plus, I don't know if the Drives now can read more than 2-layers...
 
[quote name='dallow']They are not the same at all.
One of these formats is the type of disc you'll be buying in five years.[/QUOTE]

Why? What's so different' about the HD-DVD/ Blu-ray situation? Why am I going to be buying one of the two in five years and not just keep buying DVDs?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']If I remember correctly, I think I read an article where they actually had quad-layer Blu-ray discs already, just no blu-ray drive can read them. Plus, I don't know if the Drives now can read more than 2-layers...[/QUOTE]

Yea, BR said they were working on an 8-layer 200GB disc. I doubt we will see that anytime soon, and the announcement was made simply make blu-ray seem superior to HD-DVD. But, if HD-DVD is working on adding another layer, chances are, we're not too far from a 75GB BD disc either.
 
[quote name='Buster Rod G']Why? What's so different' about the HD-DVD/ Blu-ray situation? Why am I going to be buying one of the two in five years and not just keep buying DVDs?[/quote]
Nothing could beat the sheer simplicity of the CD. Mobility and ease of use (not to mention burners) have kept it afloat for long.
It's a hassle to get a DVD-A (not the Dolby Digital crap) and SACD working properly, it was too much too soon for consumers. Not to mention ZERO marketing.

As for why you won't be buying a brand new DVD in five years? For the same reason I haven't bought a new VHS tape in 10 years.

Wow, has it been so long already?
 
[quote name='dallow']Nothing could beat the sheer simplicity of the CD. Mobility and ease of use (not to mention burners) have kept it afloat for long.
It's a hassle to get a DVD-A (not the Dolby Digital crap) and SACD working properly, it was too much too soon for consumers. Not to mention ZERO marketing.

As for why you won't be buying a brand new DVD in five years? For the same reason I haven't bought a new VHS tape in 10 years.

Wow, has it been so long already?[/QUOTE]

5 years though? I just don't see the widespread adoption happening that fast. HD-DVD and Blu-ray aren't going to reach anything near the adoption rate of DVD. I guarantee in 5 years time DVD movies will still outnumber any in either HD format. Maybe 10 years, but that's assuming something better doesn't come along(digital distribution) in the meantime. There were noticeable improvements beyond just picture quality when the jump was made from VHS to DVD and to get the benefits of a DVD player didn't require people to upgrade to an expensive, new tv set.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']Actually, I'd say it's more drastic.[/quote]While I disagree with your thoughts, the issue is that with DVD anyone could notice a huge difference. Even the grandparents, whose grandkids got them a DVD player hooked up to their giant, old cabniet TV could readily see the difference between a DVD and a VHS tape.

HD DVD / Blu-Ray isn't just about $30 movies and $500-$1000 for a new player. It's about getting a new TV, probably a new sound system, have it all hooked up properly, etc. There are many people who embrace things like that, but many, many more who won't care, at least not until their current TV dies and even the cheap options are only HDTVs.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']This was the apparent 'giant' news that beatboy77 was mentioning that would make Blu-Ray win. Release the extended (Yawn) editions on Blu-Ray only at the moment due to the delay of The Matrix because of Blu-Rays fault.[/QUOTE]

beatboy77 is an enthusiastic Blu-Ray fanboy and not much else. I wouldn't trust his "big news." Last time he had big news, his source said that the Matrix wasn't coming out seperately for HD DVD anytime soon. He is just trying to distract from the Matrix news. Sad.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Blu-ray won't stop at 50GB. And, the 51GB HD-DVD is currently being worked on, while 50GB BDs are available. And since BD has about 10GBs more per layer, HD-DVD will continue to lag behind in this department.[/QUOTE]

Blu-Ray can't even get 50GB consistently working, nevermind more. Sony's replication plant is the only one that can do BD50 and in limited quantities as well.
 
[quote name='Ruined']beatboy77 is an enthusiastic Blu-Ray fanboy and not much else. I wouldn't trust his "big news." Last time he had big news, his source said that the Matrix wasn't coming out seperately for HD DVD anytime soon. He is just trying to distract from the Matrix news. Sad.[/QUOTE]
While I do agree he is a fanboy and that I take his "inside" info with a grain of salt, he did start a thread saying he had some sort of news before the announcement of the Matrix news.
 
[quote name='daroga']
HD DVD / Blu-Ray isn't just about $30 movies and $500-$1000 for a new player. It's about getting a new TV, probably a new sound system, have it all hooked up properly, etc. There are many people who embrace things like that, but many, many more who won't care, at least not until their current TV dies and even the cheap options are only HDTVs.[/quote]

This is exactly what I posted in the PS3 section about HD-TV. As much as people here like to think it is a staple of life, it isn't and won't be for a LOT of people for a LONG time. Same goes for anything but normal DVD's. As was said by Bust Rod G in post #56
 
[quote name='Buster Rod G']5 years though? I just don't see the widespread adoption happening that fast. HD-DVD and Blu-ray aren't going to reach anything near the adoption rate of DVD. I guarantee in 5 years time DVD movies will still outnumber any in either HD format. Maybe 10 years, but that's assuming something better doesn't come along(digital distribution) in the meantime. There were noticeable improvements beyond just picture quality when the jump was made from VHS to DVD and to get the benefits of a DVD player didn't require people to upgrade to an expensive, new tv set.[/quote]

[quote name='schuremy'] This is exactly what I posted in the PS3 section about HD-TV. As much as people here like to think it is a staple of life, it isn't and won't be for a LOT of people for a LONG time. Same goes for anything but normal DVD's. As was said by Bust Rod G in post #56[/quote]

I was about to agree with you on the necessity of an HDTV to take advantage of both HD DVD and Blu-Ray but I remembered this:

As of March 1st, 2007, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]companies are restricted from importing analog TVs from foreign countries or trafficking in interstate commerce of analog sets. Bottom line, is that retailers of Analog only TVs aren't allowed to buy any more to sell. Analog TVs are now officially dead. [/FONT]
You can still buy tube TVs, but they must have over the air digital tuners (ATSC).
Click to expand...

Welcome to the future boys.
 
Jeez dallow I hope I'll be able to buy a used Japanese CRT. I need a big tv that has RGB inputs that won't make old console games look like crap.
 
Digital does not mean HD, though. There are already plenty of SDTVs out there with digital tuners. Besides that, there are even more people out there with SDTVs who aren't going to upgrade until their current set dies and those old CRTs tend to last a loooooooooong time(I happen to have a 20 year old RCA that still works fine). I don't doubt that HD sets will eventually take over and that some HD movie format(not necessarily Blu-Ray or HD DVD) will eventually reach mainstream success, I just doubt that its going to happen nearly as fast as you seem to think.
 
[quote name='Buster Rod G']Digital does not mean HD, though. There are already plenty of SDTVs out there with digital tuners. Besides that, there are even more people out there with SDTVs who aren't going to upgrade until their current set dies and those old CRTs tend to last a loooooooooong time(I happen to have a 20 year old RCA that still works fine). I don't doubt that HD sets will eventually take over and that some HD movie format(not necessarily Blu-Ray or HD DVD) will eventually reach mainstream success, I just doubt that its going to happen nearly as fast as you seem to think.[/quote]

You're right, digital doesn't mean HD.
But SD sets with digital tuners cost more than standard sets... why not just purchase a real HDTV? They're getting cheaper every season.

5 years is pretty fast though. We'll see.

(I have a 15+ year old CRT too, they never die!)
 
[quote name='Ruined']Blu-Ray can't even get 50GB consistently working, nevermind more. Sony's replication plant is the only one that can do BD50 and in limited quantities as well.[/QUOTE]

They are still a step ahead of HD, which was my point.
 
[quote name='dpatel']They are still a step ahead of HD, which was my point.[/QUOTE]

They are a leap ahead in currently shipping capacity but they are a giant leap behind in interactivity, extras, & consistent a/v quality.

Also, the extra capacity of Blu-Ray has not shown any improvement in video; in fact, HD DVD has shown more consistently high quality video despite having less maximum capcity. On the other hand, the lack of interactivity on Blu-Ray sticks out like a sore thumb with static standard DVD style menus on nearly every release compared to HD DVD's fancy and functional overlays. Not to mention Blu-Ray's lack of features like U-Control or IME.
 
[quote name='DomLando']While I do agree he is a fanboy and that I take his "inside" info with a grain of salt, he did start a thread saying he had some sort of news before the announcement of the Matrix news.[/QUOTE]

His news was on the Matrix was also wrong, however.

This current news makes now sense technically or marketing-wise. Marketing-wise, New Line would be better off releasing two versions to capitalize on profits.

And tech-wise, the extended cut would be a better fit for HD DVD, anyway: Warner's announced capcities for TotalHD are: HD15/BD25 and HD30/BD25. BD50 will not be an option, therefore you are working with 5GB less when dealing with TotalHD on Blu-Ray. That doesn't sound like a good fit for an extended cut, it would make more sense the other way around.
 
[quote name='Ruined']They are a leap ahead in currently shipping capacity but they are a giant leap behind in interactivity, extras, & consistent a/v quality.

Also, the extra capacity of Blu-Ray has not shown any improvement in video; in fact, HD DVD has shown more consistently high quality video despite having less maximum capcity. On the other hand, the lack of interactivity on Blu-Ray sticks out like a sore thumb with static standard DVD style menus on nearly every release compared to HD DVD's fancy and functional overlays. Not to mention Blu-Ray's lack of features like U-Control or IME.[/QUOTE]

True, but its much easier for Blu-ray to overcome those issues, than HD-DVD overcoming the fact that they have 10GB less per layer.
 
Did the BDA not factor Talladega Nights into sales figures? Because Casino Royale is being said to be the first movie to reach 100,000.
 
[quote name='dpatel']True, but its much easier for Blu-ray to overcome those issues, than HD-DVD overcoming the fact that they have 10GB less per layer.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, as HD DVD has already overcome that issue in two ways: first, HD DVD has proved that by using VC-1/Dolby TrueHD lossless audio you can get reference quality HD video & audio on HD15/HD30 discs depending on movie length - the only time you may need more than 30gb is if you use the outdated MPEG2 codec in combination with uncompressed audio and HD DVD has avoided this. Second, HD DVD group has proposed a triple layer 51gb disc to be official incorporated into the HD DVD specs; this disc has been manufactured successfully and can be read by current players according to Toshiba so its just a matter of voting on it and making it official.

More importantly, the main problem for Blu-Ray remains twofold: first, they have failed to replicate BD50 in mass quantities as evidenced by tons of continued BD25 releases and further have failed to replicate BD50 outside of Sony replication plants. Second, Sony has failed to prove the usefulness of BD50 over HD30 - HD DVD has provided more consistent A/V quality and more interactivity/extras than Blu-Ray. Even when using BD50 discs and MPEG4 Blu-Ray has failed to demonstrate a noticable difference compared to HD30 and VC-1.

In summary, the lack of hardware standards on the Blu-Ray side combined with the lack of benefit from BD50 even when using advanced codecs along with quantity over quality mentality from Blu-Ray studios has resulted in HD DVD delivering the more consistently superior product. Further, with Blu-Ray supporting BD+ Advanced Countermeasure which will likely now be put in play by Fox, you can count on Blu-Ray having anti-consumer DRM as well - thankfully BD+ is not in the HD DVD spec!
 
Interesting info. I didn't know a lot of it.

However, I don't think that using better codecs solves the lack of storage problem. It helps with movies, but, with the format, in general, it does not help.

I didn't know BD was having so much trouble with the 50GB. Still, while HD-DVD may be quicker at reaching the 50GB point and more effective at it, how long can they stay ahead? BD will always have the advantage of 10GB more per disc, and while they seem to be having a lot of trouble getting it together, I would be surprised if these problems continue.

Although, the lack of hardware standards, as you mentioned, is a pretty big problem. From what I understand, any BD with more than 2 layers won't be playable on most (all?) BD players. I think this is a really bad move. Maybe they think we will never surpass the 50GB mark for movies, but I think it's always nice to have that room to breathe there, rather than make assumptions about the future.
 
[quote name='Ruined'] Second, HD DVD group has proposed a triple layer 51gb disc to be official incorporated into the HD DVD specs; this disc has been manufactured successfully and can be read by current players according to Toshiba so its just a matter of voting on it and making it official.[/quote]

Last I heard they haven't even been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum (source). And have they really been manufactuered, I have yet to see any announcement of that either. Plus you fail to mention the fact that it's speculated the discs will be more costly to manufactuer and it's still unconfirmed whether or not they can even be mass produced efficently enough. With those two things against and no real need for studios to use 51gb as you point out, we may never see them on the market. IMO it's all a bunch of hype to trump BD a bit.

[quote name='dpatel']Interesting info. I didn't know a lot of it.
[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind he's about as bias as you can get for some reason.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Keep in mind he's about as bias as you can get for some reason.[/QUOTE]

If he is, he sounded pretty convincing. I assumed all his info was correct, but I don't know that much about the technical aspects of both formats to say for sure.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Although, the lack of hardware standards, as you mentioned, is a pretty big problem. From what I understand, any BD with more than 2 layers won't be playable on most (all?) BD players. I think this is a really bad move. Maybe they think we will never surpass the 50GB mark for movies, but I think it's always nice to have that room to breathe there, rather than make assumptions about the future.[/QUOTE]

I believe at the current time, all current Blu-Ray players (with the exception of the PS3) will be screwed if they ever hit a disc over 50GB. The players simply cannot read them. Same issues will occur with Blu-Java ones its finalized. The PS3 is the notable exception because its a 'super computer' and can be updated (and since 95% of Blu-Ray players are PS3 it sure as hell better be!).
 
[quote name='dpatel']If he is, he sounded pretty convincing. I assumed all his info was correct, but I don't know that much about the technical aspects of both formats to say for sure.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying he's not convincing at times, but actions (extremely repeated actions no less) speak louder than words do sometimes. Just look at his post/topic history involving this little HD/BD format war if you don't believe me.
 
So, does that mean that Talladega was not included in the blu-ray sales count? If it was, then it would've been the first to reach 100,000
 
In the latest reshuffling of its Blu-ray release schedule, Fox Home Entertainment has bumped 'Me, Myself & Irene' from its April 3 release date.

The $100 million-grossing Jim Carrey smash was originally announced for Blu-ray release at this year's CES, along with a host of other Fox winter titles.


The studio has offered no reason for the delay, nor any new street date.

'Me, Myself & Irene' represents the latest of Fox's winter line-up of Blu-ray catalog titles to be yanked from the schedule. The studio had previously announced a major shake-up of its Blu-ray schedule, which saw the postponement of a number of high-anticipated hits, including 'The Fly,' 'Turistas' and 'Dude, Where's My Car?'

The studio then delayed two other major catalog releases, 'From Hell' and 'Mr. & Mrs. Smith,' earlier this month.

Now, aside from the already-released 'Eragon' and the upcoming April 24 debut of 'Night at the Museum,' Fox's entire winter Blu-ray line-up has been wiped clean.
Click to expand...

Shame as this was one of the few Fox catalog titles I was considering buying. Could it be to add the new BR + security? Adding more extras? 50GB discs? Going neutral? Who knows. All I know is the gigantic list that Fox showed everyone at CES to wow them into Blu-Ray has been all but wiped out.
 
[quote name='dpatel']So, does that mean that Talladega was not included in the blu-ray sales count? If it was, then it would've been the first to reach 100,000[/QUOTE]

Since they were not 'sold' they do not count in retail numbers. Sony most likley counted them in overall figures, but can't really call them 'sold' since they were never 'sold' to a store and then 'sold' to a consumer. Atleast thats how I understand it. Much like the 5 Free HD-DVDs from Toshiba. They will count in overall numbers, but they can't claim they have sold 100,000 copies of Dukes of Hazzard.
 
[quote name='dpatel']So, does that mean that Talladega was not included in the blu-ray sales count? If it was, then it would've been the first to reach 100,000[/QUOTE]

Oh god, blu ray or hd dvd battle aside, that should make anyone weep.
 
hdbrzz5.jpg


Amazon numbers as of today...HD-DVD has really turned in the past few days/week. Could be because of the recent 50% + Buy 1 Get 1 Free BR sales that people are broke, could be because HD-DVD has The Matrix, could be alot of factors. I expect these numbers to turn even more once the A2 is officially $400 at retail outlets next week (along with 4 free HD-DVDs from Circuit City + 5 free from Toshiba). Happy Feet, release today, on HD-DVD is outselling the Blu-Ray counterpart even though its $4 more and a Combo. Wonder if Disney will take notice?
 
[quote name='gizmogc']
hdbrzz5.jpg


Amazon numbers as of today...HD-DVD has really turned in the past few days/week. Could be because of the recent 50% + Buy 1 Get 1 Free BR sales that people are broke, could be because HD-DVD has The Matrix, could be alot of factors. I expect these numbers to turn even more once the A2 is officially $400 at retail outlets next week (along with 4 free HD-DVDs from Circuit City + 5 free from Toshiba)[/QUOTE]

3 Words: Children of Men, easily
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']3 Words: Children of Men, easily[/QUOTE]

Looks like the Matrix Triology raked in a lot of sales too.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Looks like the Matrix Triology raked in a lot of sales too.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah I suppose that would do it too. I didn't realize the pre-orders would count towards sales yet.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Looks like the Matrix Triology raked in a lot of sales too.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah. There is two different versions too...so both will be dominating for a while. Had there been 1 version I'm sure it would be in the #10 for a while. I prefer this instead of releasing the super duper version 6 months later and pissing everyone off.
 
Are there really two versions, or are they just being listed twice on Amazon? If there are, what is the difference?

And what is the BR version getting? I don't think they have confirmed a date for it yet, either.
 
I'm suprised the simple trilogy is outselling the ultimate collection, when they announced it I figured it'd be the other way around. Then again, I suppose that could easily change between now and may.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I'm suprised the simple trilogy is outselling the ultimate collection, when they announced it I figured it'd be the other way around. Then again, I suppose that could easily change between now and may.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I'm going with the regular ol' edition. HD DVDs are expensive enough without adding in a bunch of special features I'll never end up watching.
 
Oh ok, I see one is the 'ultimate edition' now. Why is being outsold by the regular edition? There is a price difference of $13.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Oh ok, I see one is the 'ultimate edition' now. Why is being outsold by the regular edition? There is a price difference of $13.[/QUOTE]

Maybe people don't care about the extras? I never really cared for any of 'The Matrix' movies, but will rent them anyway. Not a buy for me.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Oh ok, I see one is the 'ultimate edition' now. Why is being outsold by the regular edition? There is a price difference of $13.[/QUOTE]

Oh wow, the difference is only $13? Maybe I will get the ultimate edition then.
 
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