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[quote name='geko29']The Skipper would always scream Gilligan's name at the top of his lungs when Gilligan did something that pissed him off. Which was pretty much every episode. :)

Regardless of what happens, I don't understand the sour grapes attitude of "if my chosen format looks like it might not win, I don't want HiDef media anymore." that's popping up on here now. If Blu-Ray turned out to take the crown (as it was beginning to look earlier in the year), I would have been more than happy to pick up a combo player and enjoy new Blu-Ray movies, while continuing to enjoy my HD DVDs as I had been for the year or two prior.

Now that it looks like HD DVD has a chance of recovering the lead it had last year, why is the reverse not true? Pick up an A3 for
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I recommend everyone read that thread, it breaks down number of Hi-Def sales by Company and shows what would happen if WB goes exclusive either way.[/quote]
Except that's not what it shows, at all. They're using total consumer spending on ALL formats, which just so happens to include DVD. For an example of one problem, WB is far and away the biggest earner in the HighDef arena. One out of three HighDef discs sold is a WB title (well close enough, it's actually just over 30%), and half of the top 10 selling titles Year to Date and Since Inception are from Warner.

But the pie chart says Fox/MGM makes more than WB, which is patently false. WB has likely sold more copies of 300 than all Fox and MGM titles combined. Fox has only one title on the top 10 YTD and none in the top 10 SI. 300 on HD DVD sold the same amount its first week than Fox/MGM's three titles in the top 20 have sold since inception.

Paramount going exlusive didn't change the total number of available titles by much, from 293 down to 260 for Blu-Ray, vs. 287 for HD DVD. Noticible, but not earth-shattering. But if you take Warner titles out as well, the BR list drops to 200. THAT is a significant deficit, especially when you consider the number of big sellers there.
 
[quote name='geko29']Except that's not what it shows, at all. They're using total consumer spending on ALL formats, which just so happens to include DVD. For an example of one problem, WB is far and away the biggest earner in the HighDef arena. One out of three HighDef discs sold is a WB title (well close enough, it's actually just over 30%), and half of the top 10 selling titles Year to Date and Since Inception are from Warner.

But the pie chart says Fox/MGM makes more than WB, which is patently false. WB has likely sold more copies of 300 than all Fox and MGM titles combined. Fox has only one title on the top 10 YTD and none in the top 10 SI. 300 on HD DVD sold the same amount its first week than Fox/MGM's three titles in the top 20 have sold since inception.

Paramount going exlusive didn't change the total number of available titles by much, from 293 down to 260 for Blu-Ray, vs. 287 for HD DVD. Noticible, but not earth-shattering. But if you take Warner titles out as well, the BR list drops to 200. THAT is a significant deficit, especially when you consider the number of big sellers there.[/quote]

Sorry, I just assumed that since it was a Blu-ray forum that they would just be talking about Hi-Def sales, not all formats.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I Am not upset that Blu-ray is losing[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't be upset, because it isn't losing. It has outsold HD 2 to 1 consistently for all of 2007 so far, received the backing of Blockbuster and Target, and has millions more available players in the market compared to HD. It has received every bit of good news this year save one (the Paramount decision), and that was by virtue of Paramount selling out. BR still has more exclusive studios than BR, still has the backing of more analysts...so where is it that BR is losing the battle?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You shouldn't be upset, because it isn't losing. It has outsold HD 2 to 1 consistently for all of 2007 so far, received the backing of Blockbuster and Target, and has millions more available players in the market compared to HD. It has received every bit of good news this year save one (the Paramount decision), and that was by virtue of Paramount selling out. BR still has more exclusive studios than BR, still has the backing of more analysts...so where is it that BR is losing the battle?[/quote]
I meant that it might not win by the end of this year, and that if WB I wouldn't support it just because that would show it wasn't "winning"
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Guess I won't be watching any HD movies on my 360 any time soon. fucking RROD.[/quote]
RROD?

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=423

Blue Ray Technologies Calls Paramount Deal "Desperate"

Posted August 23, 2007 by Josh

Blu-ray Disc Blue Ray Technologies, the first independent Blu-ray manufacturer in the US, has issued a press release regarding the recent exclusivity agreement between Paramount and HD DVD. Commenting on the move, Erick Hansen, founder of Blue Ray Technologies, said, "Toshiba and HD-DVD offered this deal because they are desperate. The public has chosen Blu-ray discs with their pocket books, buying BDs 2-to-1 over HD-DVDs this year."

Regarding why he disagrees with the move, Hansen commented, "For retailers, it's like being forced to stock VHS tapes after the public chose DVDs. For the consumer it creates more confusion that hurts the industry-wide move to hi-def."

Hansen also says he isn't the only person speaking out. "If multi-billion dollar director Steven Spielberg and billion dollar director Michael Bay like Blu-ray, the deal is a double-edged sword." Commenting further, "If these two spoke up so quickly, you can be sure that there are a dozen others who will follow suit if they have the clout on a film."

He also hopes that others will be as outspoken as himself. "I would like to see others take a stand, this is only slowing the inevitable and hurting consumers and the business. It's not that I'm surprised they took the deal but it's like paying them not to grow crops. How is the film industry going to segue into the next-gen world if it accepts a relative pittance to stunt its growth?"
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Wow, interesting to see someone so outspoken.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=422

Mitsubishi Developing 3D Blu-ray Player

Posted August 23, 2007 by Josh

Blu-ray Disc Mitsubishi is currently developing a Blu-ray player which can convert 2D images into a 3D viewing experience, on-the-fly. While 3D movies have been around for decades, they have never made it in to the mainstream, mostly because films are required to be shot for 3D. What Mitsubishi is attempting to do, is convert your existing 2D library to stunning 3D on-the-fly, and deliver that technology early next year.

The technology works with current DLP displays, and any other TV which can output at 120MHz (120fps). The image is converted to 3D, and then output to your TV as two separate 60fps feeds which are then output from you display by alternating feeds. While no working product was available at the demonstration, the aggressive launch date suggests that Mitsubishi has had at least some success in the lab.
Click to expand...
Can any other TV do 120fps? IF not, don't see this being popular...
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Wow, interesting to see someone so outspoken.[/quote] If you'd just invested $12.1 million in a Blu-Ray replication line, I'd imagine you'd be pretty outspoken about things that could impact your ability to recoup your money too. I know I would.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] Can any other TV do 120fps? IF not, don't see this being popular...[/quote]
I don't see it being popular either, but a number of newer TVs can do 120fps, as it's the first even multiple of both 60fps and 24fps. 120Hz is how most TVs handle 24fps content.
 
[quote name='geko29']If you'd just invested $12.1 million in a Blu-Ray replication line, I'd imagine you'd be pretty outspoken about things that could impact your ability to recoup your money too. I know I would.


I don't see it being popular either, but a number of newer TVs can do 120fps, as it's the first even multiple of both 60fps and 24fps. 120Hz is how most TVs handle 24fps content.[/quote]

I thought 60hz was 60 frames per second? That whole thing confuses me so much...
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I thought 60hz was 60 frames per second? That whole thing confuses me so much...[/quote]
It is. Well, actually it's 60 fields per second, which equates to 30 frames per second for interlaced content and 60 frames per second for progressive content. Let's say you have a 120Hz TV with two sources hooked up to it....an HD DVR that outputs 1080i/60, and a Blu-Ray/HD DVD player that outputs 1080p/24. Here's what the TV does:

With the TV programming (60i): Deinterlace to 30p, repeat every frame four times to make 120Hz/fps.

With the movies (24p): Repeat every frame five times to make 120Hz/fps.

The advantage of 120Hz is it allows you to watch 24fps content without the motion judder associated with the 3:2 pulldown required to show it on a 60Hz set, without screwing with content that originates at 60Hz. 72Hz also shows 24fps cleanly (repeats 3 times), but is a nightmare for 30fps.
 
[quote name='geko29']It is. Well, actually it's 60 fields per second, which equates to 30 frames per second for interlaced content and 60 frames per second for progressive content. Let's say you have a 120Hz TV with two sources hooked up to it....an HD DVR that outputs 1080i/60, and a Blu-Ray/HD DVD player that outputs 1080p/24. Here's what the TV does:

With the TV programming (60i): Deinterlace to 30p, repeat every frame four times to make 120Hz/fps.

With the movies (24p): Repeat every frame five times to make 120Hz/fps.

The advantage of 120Hz is it allows you to watch 24fps content without the motion judder associated with the 3:2 pulldown required to show it on a 60Hz set, without screwing with content that originates at 60Hz. 72Hz also shows 24fps cleanly (repeats 3 times), but is a nightmare for 30fps.[/quote]

Yeah, I knew 24fps was better just never understood why. Main reason why I like Blu-ray better because I am pretty sure even the cheapest Blu-ray player supports 1080p/24.
 
At the current moment, Blu-Ray, overall, has a 1.5:1 advantage over HD DVD (2.2 for Blu, 1.5 for HD). I can't believe anyone would think thats a good thing especially with 10x the amount of players in homes. Sad.
 
Indeed. Anyone with more hardware and software than the competition should just give up. It's only a matter of time before the Wii and 360 give up.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Indeed. Anyone with more hardware and software than the competition should just give up. It's only a matter of time before the Wii and 360 give up.[/QUOTE]

Video game consoles is a whole different game and you know it.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']At the current moment, Blu-Ray, overall, has a 1.5:1 advantage over HD DVD (2.2 for Blu, 1.5 for HD). I can't believe anyone would think thats a good thing especially with 10x the amount of players in homes. Sad.[/QUOTE]

I was looking through your achievements, and I didn't notice the one for touching a vagina. You should work on that.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Video game consoles is a whole different game and you know it.[/quote]
Gizmo, we've been over this, This year Blu-ray has been outselling HD-DVD 2:1. The main reason is because the PS3 wasn't out last year, which has been the biggest selling Hi-def player out there and the main catalyst for Blu-ray. It is helping out Blu-ray tremendously. Video games consoles don't count ey? What about all the people who just bought the ps3 as a cheap blu-ray player? Or the people like me who bought the PS3 as a combo Video Game machine and Blu-ray player?

As Dpatel once said "Yes, Blu-ray does have lots of things going for it."
 
[quote name='seanr1221']I was looking through your achievements, and I didn't notice the one for touching a vagina. You should work on that.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I thought I got that one from your mom and sister last week, weird.

I'll call Microsoft about that one. I'll be sure to ask them about the missing achievement for you when you touched your dad.

Thanks for being mature, sean. :roll:
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Gizmo, we've been over this, This year Blu-ray has been outselling HD-DVD 2:1. The main reason is because the PS3 wasn't out last year, which has been the biggest selling Hi-def player out there and the main catalyst for Blu-ray. It is helping out Blu-ray tremendously. Video games consoles don't count ey? What about all the people who just bought the ps3 as a cheap blu-ray player? Or the people like me who bought the PS3 as a combo Video Game machine and Blu-ray player?

As Dpatel once said "Yes, Blu-ray does have lots of things going for it."[/QUOTE]

Ok, great. So we agree that the PS3 is a Blu-ray player then? It should be counted, right? So then Blu-ray has shitty attach ratios, and with all those systems out there they can't even keep Paramount/Dreamworks neutral. Good, at least we agree on that. I love the 700k disc advantage Blu-Ray has with 10x the players...its amazing! And I'm sure the DVD of Transformers will look AWESOME up-converted on it :lol:
 
The main thing here is that everyone with a hd player chose to buy that hd player. I am betting these type of people buy alot more movies than the usual joe's.

Most of the ppl with a ps3 automatically become bluray backers because the system has it built in.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Ok, great. So we agree that the PS3 is a Blu-ray player then? It should be counted, right? So then Blu-ray has shitty attach ratios, and with all those systems out there they can't even keep Paramount/Dreamworks neutral. Good, at least we agree on that. I love the 700k disc advantage Blu-Ray has with 10x the players...its amazing! And I'm sure the DVD of Transformers will look AWESOME up-converted on it :lol:[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Blu-ray should just pack up and leave. Selling 10x more hardware and double the software is dismal. Paramount made the right choice (a choice solely based on attach ratio and not the $150million incentive).

PS3 also has the lowest hardware and software sales in the gaming market, much like HD-DVD, so I can see many developers going PS3 exclusive pretty soon.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']The main thing here is that everyone with a hd player chose to buy that hd player. I am betting these type of people buy alot more movies than the usual joe's.

Most of the ppl with a ps3 automatically become bluray backers because the system has it built in.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. This explains the dismal attach ratio. When the format war started, I was a supporter of BD, but, had it not been for the PS3, it probably would've been a few years before I bought any format. I would've preferred to let the war decide a winner before jumping on any format. But, since I bought the PS3, I'm sorta forced into adopting BD earlier than expected, which, I'm sure, is the case with more PS3 owners.
 
well sorta the same thing.. i adopted hd early thanks to microsoft and their very affordable add on.... It also got me back into movies as well as i was never a big dvd buyer

So i think their is still alot of potential for current 360 owners to pick a drive up... jesus christ its only 180..
 
[quote name='guyver2077']The main thing here is that everyone with a hd player chose to buy that hd player. I am betting these type of people buy alot more movies than the usual joe's.

Most of the ppl with a ps3 automatically become bluray backers because the system has it built in.[/QUOTE]


The main about that is that most of those people chose HD DVD because it was cheap, and not because it was the superior product. Does that matter? No. Does what you stated matter? No. Disc sales are disc sales, it doesn't matter how or why. All that matters are the numbers, the money being spent and made.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']well sorta the same thing.. i adopted hd early thanks to microsoft and their very affordable add on.... It also got me back into movies as well as i was never a big dvd buyer

So i think their is still alot of potential for current 360 owners to pick a drive up... jesus christ its only 180..[/QUOTE]

Yea. The additional cost made BD more appealing to me. If there were only standalones, I probably would've waited for the $150-$200 mark. This way, I got a BD player for about that much, but close to the formats release.

I definitely don't regret adopting the format earlier than expected. I just wish this war would end soon, so I can get to watching some movies that I've been missing out on.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']The main about that is that most of those people chose HD DVD because it was cheap, and not because it was the superior product. Does that matter? No. Does what you stated matter? No. Disc sales are disc sales, it doesn't matter how or why. All that matters are the numbers, the money being spent and made.[/QUOTE]

True. There is nothing wrong with HD-DVD being cheaper, but, other than price, I haven't really seen any advantages we would gain, should the format win in the long run.
 
well i dont see the drive as being my permanent fix.... im assuming stand alone's will continue to drop price.....

If i ever get a standalone player i will just use my current drive on my pc

for the mean time though its a great value..

I really didnt just get it because it was cheaper either.. at launch time hd discs were superior to the bd movies...

i eventually got a good deal on a ps3 from a friend so now i have the best of both worlds.....
 
I would agree with dpatel, I've become a BD adopter mainly because I bought a PS3. It was one of the features that weighed heavily on my decision when I decided to go next gen. Honestly though I really haven't bought many movies so far. One of the first would've been Transformers but M$ bought the studio's loyalty.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']I would agree with dpatel, I've become a BD adopter mainly because I bought a PS3. It was one of the features that weighed heavily on my decision when I decided to go next gen. Honestly though I really haven't bought many movies so far. One of the first would've been Transformers but M$ bought the studio's loyalty.[/quote]

I still suprised everyone blames M$ for the cash payout. Don't get me wrong M$ has a interest it keeping the format war, but companies like who own the patents and invested in it have more to lose then M$...
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Ok, great. So we agree that the PS3 is a Blu-ray player then? It should be counted, right? So then Blu-ray has shitty attach ratios, and with all those systems out there they can't even keep Paramount/Dreamworks neutral. Good, at least we agree on that. I love the 700k disc advantage Blu-Ray has with 10x the players...its amazing! And I'm sure the DVD of Transformers will look AWESOME up-converted on it :lol:[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Blu-ray should just pack up and leave. Selling 10x more hardware and double the software is dismal. Paramount made the right choice (a choice solely based on attach ratio and not the $150million incentive).

PS3 also has the lowest hardware and software sales in the gaming market, much like HD-DVD, so I can see many developers going PS3 exclusive pretty soon.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']well sorta the same thing.. i adopted hd early thanks to microsoft and their very affordable add on.... It also got me back into movies as well as i was never a big dvd buyer

So i think their is still alot of potential for current 360 owners to pick a drive up... jesus christ its only 180..[/QUOTE]

I can appreciate the "it's really cheap" argument, but I don't think that alone is satisfactory. This is just going to lead into a "what is *value*?" argument. For some people, a $350 console with an optional $180 HD DVD player is value. For others, a $500 console with an included BR player that can be used for games as well is value. That's an argument that's purely subjective, frankly. I could just as easily say "Jesus Christ the PS3 is only $500" and be laughed at by most people - however, it's as valid as "the HD DVD add on is only $180."
 
Blu-ray wins because it looks sexy in my bedroom.

PanasonicHDTVrunningBlu-ray.jpg
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']Blu-ray wins because it looks sexy in my bedroom.

PanasonicHDTVrunningBlu-ray.jpg
[/quote]

Is that a Panasonic Plasma? Man, that looks nice. Does your TV automatically convert everything to 1.85:1 or do you do that by yourself?
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']The main about that is that most of those people chose HD DVD because it was cheap, and not because it was the superior product. Does that matter? No. Does what you stated matter? No. Disc sales are disc sales, it doesn't matter how or why. All that matters are the numbers, the money being spent and made.[/QUOTE]

How is Blu-ray superior? Because it has more disc storage then HD DVD? I have yet to see a Blu-ray that is better then a similar HD DVD (Compare POTC to King Kong for example. Both look great...but can you honestly say POTC is WAY better then King Kong?). I would think the format that has finalized specs, and has since day 1 would be superior, but I guess everyone else enjoys having players that may or may not be compatible with future movies. I wonder how places like Best Buy and Circuit City are going to explain that. 'Yeah, sorry your $500 Blu-Ray player can't play that special feature...how about you buy another one?"

Remember, Blu-ray is now only backed by 5 of the 8 major studios and HD DVD has 4. This may change in the future for either format, but as it stands, today, they are very similar.

As for money being made...just because 300 sold twice as much on Bu-ray does not mean thats twice amount of profit being made. HD DVDs are cheaper the Blu-ray, and with a $5 more price tag I'm sure WB made similar amounts on both formats.

Chris, sweet setup. I've always wanted to mount my Plasma to the wall, but living in an apartment it would be a pain in the ass when moving. That looks sick though. Do you have a sound system or do you just the speaker built-in to the TV?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I can appreciate the "it's really cheap" argument, but I don't think that alone is satisfactory. This is just going to lead into a "what is *value*?" argument. For some people, a $350 console with an optional $180 HD DVD player is value. For others, a $500 console with an included BR player that can be used for games as well is value. That's an argument that's purely subjective, frankly. I could just as easily say "Jesus Christ the PS3 is only $500" and be laughed at by most people - however, it's as valid as "the HD DVD add on is only $180."[/QUOTE]

Understandable, but your also quoting the price of a PS3 today...which may go up to $600 when the 60GB sells out. Not only that, PS3 has way less of a selection of games to play as well. That may mean people will choose the 360 + HD DVD over a PS3 w/ Blu-ray built in. The price of a premium w/HDMI and a HD DVD add-on is going to be the same as a PS3 w/ Blu-ray remote (does anyone actually use the controller? Ick!).
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Blu-ray Superior in that it has better disc storage and anti-scratch protection.[/QUOTE]

...thats it? 20GB more, that so far has meant nothing, and being scratch resistant?
 
I thought I had read awhile back somewhere, that while the blu ray discs have that nice scratch resistant base, that if they do get scratched it makes it unwatchable.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']...thats it? 20GB more, that so far has meant nothing, and being scratch resistant?[/quote]

That's a pretty significant different when you consider longevity of the format. Larger storage space eliminates the need to use multiple discs to hold special features in movies or additional content in games thus eliminating the annoying switching of discs. Durability is huge as well. Who here hasn't run into issues with disc quality? Back in my Funcoland days I turned away thousands of trade in on PS1 discs because they were in such bad shape they looked like the customer had taken a Brillo pad to them.

Gizmo you're such a M$ fanboy I have to ask you how is Bill Gates colon? Is he doing ok? No signs of polyps or any other illnesses? You have your head so far up his ass the least you could do is give him a free lower G.I. screening.
 
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