- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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Just because Microsoft denied the Elite, it doesn't mean that every denial a company makes following that incident will be the exact same. I realize there have been times when companies deny something, which ends up being true in the end, but the opposite has happened, and probably just as many times. Just doesn't seem like a relevant correlation to make, in my opinion.

With that said, I think it will happen. The article seems to think so to. It's just a matter of 'when' it seems like.
 
[quote name='DomLando']I was just posting it. I didn't say it meant anything. I still think it is going to happen. But I don't know at all how you can consider HD DVD the winner just from this.[/QUOTE]

It definitely puts HD-DVD back in the race. Prior to this announcement, I couldnt' see HD-DVD really making any sort of comeback. I realize they weren't really that far behind, but I expectend the trend to conintue and for Blu-ray to gain an even bigger lead in the futuer. However, this announcement does change the outlook quite a bit. Problem is, while the players are relatviely cheap, you still need a new TV. While the TVs are dropping price, people who have perfectly fine TVs may not be as willing to upgrade just yet. I still think the 'war' will last until at least 5-6 years from now. At that point, we'll either be having a dual format setup or there will be a winner and that winner will be getting closer to DVD.
 
[quote name='dpatel']It definitely puts HD-DVD back in the race. Prior to this announcement, I couldnt' see HD-DVD really making any sort of comeback. I realize they weren't really that far behind, but I expectend the trend to conintue and for Blu-ray to gain an even bigger lead in the futuer. However, this announcement does change the outlook quite a bit. Problem is, while the players are relatviely cheap, you still need a new TV. While the TVs are dropping price, people who have perfectly fine TVs may not be as willing to upgrade just yet. I still think the 'war' will last until at least 5-6 years from now. At that point, we'll either be having a dual format setup or there will be a winner and that winner will be getting closer to DVD.[/QUOTE]
It helps HD DVD big time but gizmogc stated that if it happens consider HD DVD the winner which is ridiculous remark. I think tis will just extend the war which for us consumers sucks. I just want one to win. The quicker the better.
 
[quote name='DomLando']It helps HD DVD big time but gizmogc stated that if it happens consider HD DVD the winner which is ridiculous remark. I think tis will just extend the war which for us consumers sucks. I just want one to win. The quicker the better.[/QUOTE]

Yea. Claiming it will win the war is a bit premature at this point. I really think that this move will just encourage a dual format generation. I agree that the war should just end as quick as possible, and seeing as how most studios were on board for blu-ray at the beginning, I think it would've been easiest to have blu-ray succeed (although I would've taken either format succeeding as long as it is quick and does not lead to a long drawn out war).
 
I guess we'll have to wait and see if this deal is real or not, I think alot these rumors are started by HD fanboys. This format war has become like a console war, with all the speculation and rumors. Blu-ray is on a big roll right now, and it is growing fast. Up until this year HD was the clear winner in sales, but the PS3 has obviously changed that. The question that remains is will it continue. I think with a large majority of the summer blockbusters being exclusive to BR, come the holidays HD is going to need something big to counter with. The only problem, which I've said before, is how do you sell cheap hardware when alot of the movies people want are on the BD? Think about it Spiderman 3, Pirates, Fantastic Four, and Simpsons will all be BD exclusive. Shrek and Transformers will be on both. The only HD exclusive will be Bourne. This is if studios still stay where they are. How do you combat this?
 
Well, keep in mind that with cheaper hardware comes more consumers, and with more consumers, comes more interest from studios. If HD is able to selll a significant amount of software, studios will see this and may start releasing HD titles.

As for the article about the $300 HD player. I think there is enough evidence out there to support that it will come. When it will is still in question, but I agree that fanboys are already making ridiculous claims about something unconfirmed as of yet. It's only natural though, most of the 'fanboys' do have a significant investment in either format, and a 'win' by that format will prove that there investment was, in fact, worthwhile. I am BD only, and I have invested in the PS3 as well as 4 BD movies. It would be to my benefit to see BD succeed. Of course, I would much rather see HD win rather than have a dual format generation.
 
Blu-Ray is NOT a roll. Remember, there are 10 times the amount of players in peoples homes then HD DVD. For a format with THAT many players they have REALLY bad disc sales. There is no reason why Blu-Ray should not be at around 3 Million BR discs sold by now. With that many players, it would be 1 BR sold PER Player. Right now the attach rate is so incredible low that a format with 200k standalone's sold have sold the same amount of discs. The current attach rate for HD DVD is 5 discs while Blu-Ray has .33. Thats BAD. If Wal-Mart can sell 200,000 standalones this year (which is 10% of there rumored order) and the 5 per attach rate stays the same...what then? What's the excuse for Blu-Ray?

Don't think for a minute that Disney and Fox do not see the sales on both ends and wonder why a format with 200k sold and a format with 2-3 Million sold are equal. Happy Feet did about equal movie sales on both formats...imagine if Disney released 'Cars' on HD. How much more money would they have in their pockets?

Don't think Samsung, LG, Pioneer, etc don't see that currently the cheapest player is the PS3, which accounts for atleast 95%+ of all players sold. Whats the reason for them even to produce a unit if Sony will continue to be the cheapest + offer a game system with it. Sure, the HT people would rather buy a standalone unit, but AVS can clearly prove that wrong as many have a PS3 and not a standalone. Why do you think Samsung decided to finally make a Dual player AND possibly a standalone HD Player? They see where the money is.
 
Gizmogc where do you get "10 times" the HD players? You yourself said HD was selling 4:1 against BR. I assume your talking PS3's, which no one can tell how many of which are used as BR players. And I still question how you can get more consumers to purchase a HD player when alot of the movies that average Joe Consumer want are on BR. I understand cheaper is great for sales with alot of things, but sometimes it takes a little more. CD players are cheaper than mp3 players, but which do people buy? Ok that's not the same, but do you get my point?
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Gizmogc where do you get "10 times" the HD players? You yourself said HD was selling 4:1 against BR. I assume your talking PS3's, which no one can tell how many of which are used as BR players. [/QUOTE]

Apparently, he seems to forget the fact that the PS3 is being included in the attach rate, each and everytime this argument comes up.

BDs attach is probably going to remain pretty low. Doesn't seem to bother Studios. With THAT big of a difference in attach rates, you would think most of them would've just jumped by now. Instead, most are still in favor of Blu-ray, while some choose to benefit from the other side of the 'war' by releasing on both formats. I'm sure you're not the only one to notice the dismal attach rate. It isn't a secret. Yet studios still continue to support BD.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Apparently, he seems to forget the fact that the PS3 is being included in the attach rate, each and everytime this argument comes up.

BDs attach is probably going to remain pretty low. Doesn't seem to bother Studios. With THAT big of a difference in attach rates, you would think most of them would've just jumped by now. Instead, most are still in favor of Blu-ray, while some choose to benefit from the other side of the 'war' by releasing on both formats. I'm sure you're not the only one to notice the dismal attach rate. It isn't a secret. Yet studios still continue to support BD.[/QUOTE]

Yes, PS3 should be counted in this. It plays Blu-Rays, right? Dpatel, how would you play those 4 Blu-Rays you own without it? Sony themselves state 80% of people who own a PS3 will buy a Blu-Ray movie. So we should just throw all that out the window then, right? (Obviously they are wrong otherwise disc sales would be a 2.5 million or so by now)

Studios are counting on the PS3 to sell movies...not the Samsung, Pioneer, or Sony standalone units. If it was not for the PS3, Blu-Ray would be exactly where UMD is now, only Sony releasing titles for it. Studio's are STILL counting on PS3 sales to grow, so there movies will sell. If they continue how they are, with HD neck and neck with BR, they will eventually go neutral, or HD only.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Gizmogc where do you get "10 times" the HD players? You yourself said HD was selling 4:1 against BR. I assume your talking PS3's, which no one can tell how many of which are used as BR players. And I still question how you can get more consumers to purchase a HD player when alot of the movies that average Joe Consumer want are on BR. I understand cheaper is great for sales with alot of things, but sometimes it takes a little more. CD players are cheaper than mp3 players, but which do people buy? Ok that's not the same, but do you get my point?[/QUOTE]

CD vs. MP3 players is a really bad analogy, Hehe :lol:
MP3 players are smaller, lighter, won't skip, most play movies, etc.
If your a kid in school, with a portable CD player I bet you would get laughed at nowadays. I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a Portable CD player.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Yes, PS3 should be counted in this. It plays Blu-Rays, right? Dpatel, how would you play those 4 Blu-Rays you own without it? Sony themselves state 80% of people who own a PS3 will buy a Blu-Ray movie. So we should just throw all that out the window then, right? (Obviously they are wrong otherwise disc sales would be a 2.5 million or so by now)[/quote]

Of course it should be included, but we shouldn't expect all PS3 owners to have an attach rate of 5+, should we?

Studios are counting on the PS3 to sell movies...not the Samsung, Pioneer, or Sony standalone units. If it was not for the PS3, Blu-Ray would be exactly where UMD is now, only Sony releasing titles for it. Studio's are STILL counting on PS3 sales to grow, so there movies will sell. If they continue how they are, with HD neck and neck with BR, they will eventually go neutral, or HD only.
Click to expand...

So far the PS3 is definitely doing a pretty good job. If you look at attach rate alone, I guess you could spin it to make a claim that says the opposite, but looking at the higher price of blu-ray, the later release, the initial launch problems, initial smaller movie list, etc, I'd say the PS3 is doing a pretty good job with getting movies out there.

I can see Studios going neutral. It doesn't mean BD is doing poorly. It means they want to make money. Companies don't care how many formats this gen has. All they care about is your money. And with HD being such a small market, it's quite obvious to see why they would want to reach as many consumers as they can. What better way to do this than to support both formats. As for some of them jumping completely. I think it's too late for that. Unless something significant kills BD sales, studios are not going to jump. Even if BD falls behind, there are still plenty of potential owners out there.
 
I might be compeltely off on this, but I'll just share my view on BDs attach rate:

To me, it seems like HD is being mainly adopted by mostly the tech geeks, videophiles, etc. Basically most people who are in the know about movies. Whereas BD seems to be adopted by quite a number of casuals. That is the impression I get. This is probabaly due to the fact that the PS3 includes Blu-ray and that Blu-ray, in my opinion, seems to be doing a much better job at marketing their product. So, they are more likely to bring in casuals. However, casuals, in general, don't usually have 'high attach' rates.
 
I think your right as far as BD has been adopted by the casual consumer, and marketing is playing a big role. I think the one thing you guys keep ignoring is the movies, like I said before. People are going to go with the movies they want to see. I think the first big test for the formats will be next month when two big movie franchises go against each other. Lets see which sells more the Matrix trilogy or the Pirates movies, they're both huge blockbusters. I think this is going to be the first big challenge between the two. I know people compared Superman Returns sales, and the sales of The Departed, but the Matrix and Pirates I think are bigger for us geeks who are feeding this war.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']I think your right as far as BD has been adopted by the casual consumer, and marketing is playing a big role. I think the one thing you guys keep ignoring is the movies, like I said before. People are going to go with the movies they want to see. I think the first big test for the formats will be next month when two big movie franchises go against each other. Lets see which sells more the Matrix trilogy or the Pirates movies, they're both huge blockbusters. I think this is going to be the first big challenge between the two. I know people compared Superman Returns sales, and the sales of The Departed, but the Matrix and Pirates I think are bigger for us geeks who are feeding this war.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but a $80 boxset vs. a $25 movie is not a great comparison over the actual war. Ill be buying both POTC, but I was never a fan of The Matrix so I'm passing.
 
Ya I guess you're right there is a big difference in price. I think the Matrix was cool for it's time, and it did help rush in DVD, but I would prefer the Pirates movies too. This does kinda help my point though, BR does have more movies people want. HA HA.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Ya I guess you're right there is a big difference in price. I think the Matrix was cool for it's time, and it did help rush in DVD, but I would prefer the Pirates movies too. This does kinda help my point though, BR does have more movies people want. HA HA.[/QUOTE]

Its opinion on what movies YOU feel people want. Obviously people like the movies on HD otherwise they wouldn't be 2,000 disc sales below Blu-Ray. HA HA
 
Good point. I know there are some good movies on HD but most of them are old releases. I myself want this war over just for this reason. A lot of the new movies I want are coming to BR. On the other hand I would really like to see Chronicles of Riddick, Troy, and The Mummy in high def. We'll have to wait and see how this war pans out. And yes I do own a PS3, yes I watch BR with it. But I still wouldn't cry if HD won, at least then I could get whatever movie I wanted and not have to worry about which format it was on.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Its opinion on what movies YOU feel people want. Obviously people like the movies on HD otherwise they wouldn't be 2,000 disc sales below Blu-Ray. HA HA[/QUOTE]

Actually, According to this, it's more like 202,000 (actually quite a bit larger than that: 1.2mill vs 937,500):
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom042207/index.php?startpage=30

Of course, that includes sales since inception, which does kinda give HD-DVD the edge since it was out slightly longer. It also has, and still has the price advantage. But, it seems like HD didn't do too well for the first quarter. I think the link said it was being outsold 3:1.

So while they are only about 250,000 behind in total sales, current trends don't seem to favor HD too much.

Like I've been saying before though, these sales and attach rates you keep quoting don't mean too much as the war is far from over. I don't know how reliable this source is, but I am more inclined to believe a neutral 3rd party over HD or BD groups.

And, just to reiterate millrat did say BD had 'more' movies that people want. Since we seem to be judging it on sales, he is technically right, even if only by a small margin.
 
  • Blu-Ray = larger capacity. good for computer backup
  • HD DVD = cheaper players, more support for VC-1 (best video quality codec)
Video Disc Encryption

AACS stands for Advanced Access Content System. AACS is a form of Digital Rights Management (DRM) used currently to protect content on both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc titles using cryptography. It has two main focuses; to effectively control access to the contents on a protected disc and to prevent unauthorized copying of the contents. The system was developed by Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita, Warner Brothers, Sony, IBM, Toshiba and The Walt Disney Company.

AACS has been cracked, like CSS was for DVD.
allowing for movies to be backed up.
​


BD+ allows for dynamic encryption schemes, meaning that if the protection were to be cracked, manufacturers could simply change the encryption scheme on new discs, so on single crack could not open up all BD-ROM discs. This is, of course a major advantage over the Content Scrambling System (CSS) protection used on DVD discs which was cracked years ago. All old and new DVDs containing CSS can be ripped from the disc to a HDD, or software is available to simply remove CSS on-the-fly.

BD+ has not been cracked.
The nature of it means that it will have to be constantly cracked meaning not all discs you buy will be able to backed up.

​
  • Blu-Ray = AACS + BD+
  • HD DVD = AACS
Movie Industry Support (Currently)
  • Blu-Ray has support of about 70% of the movie industry.
  • HD DVD has support of about 45% of the industry.
Movie Industry Support (Future)

Blu-Ray
  • Player sales continue to rise w/ sale of PS3s.
  • Stand alone player prices remain above $300 until mid 2008.

HD DVD
  • Stand alone player sales lead Blu-Ray 4:1, however PS3 sales far outweigh them until Q1 2008.
  • Chinese manufacturers operating on low overhead and high volume import millions of $200-300 HD DVD players to the US in winter 07.
  • Wal-Mart orders 2 million players w/ a possible 7 million more for 2008.
COMBO PLAYERS
  • LG unveils combo player at CES 2007.
  • Samsung releases details of combo player costing 10% more than their Blu-Ray only player.
  • Blu-Ray laser prices drop by 90% by late 2007 making the primary cost difference manufacturing.
  • Price difference between producing a Blu-Ray player that plays DVDs also, and producing a Blu-Ray player that plays DVDs & HD-DVDs too drops to negligible amount.
  • More manufactuers begin announcing Combo Players in Fall & Winter 2007.
Landscape in Mid 2008
  • Blu-Ray only players $350
  • HD DVD only players $200
  • Combo Players $400
 
Where did you get your facts? The walmart deal has already been denied. And if the blue diode cost has dropped by 90%, couldn't we see BR players at the same price as HD players? Maybe even cheaper? I still thank this will not matter until more studios decide to support HD. Without the support of more studios I can't see how HD can win this war.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Where did you get your facts? The walmart deal has already been denied. And if the blue diode cost has dropped by 90%, couldn't we see BR players at the same price as HD players? Maybe even cheaper? I still thank this will not matter until more studios decide to support HD. Without the support of more studios I can't see how HD can win this war.[/QUOTE]

Wal-Mart deal is confirmed. Ignore the fact that Wal-Mart denied it as they will up until they have the units in their possession. Its a done deal.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2874158&postcount=296
Once this happens other studios will support Wal-Mart, no question about it. Blu-Ray fans will continue to deny this is happening, but if it does, it means studios may in fact leave.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Wal-Mart deal is confirmed. Ignore the fact that Wal-Mart denied it as they will up until they have the units in their possession. Its a done deal.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2874158&postcount=296
Once this happens other studios will support Wal-Mart, no question about it. Blu-Ray fans will continue to deny this is happening, but if it does, it means studios may in fact leave.[/QUOTE]
Can you please tell me where the Walmart deal has been "confirmed?" Why should you ignore the fact that they denied it? And also why do you think this has to mean studios will leave. I agree it will help HD DVD but who know how much? This is just wishful thinking right now on your part.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Actually, According to this, it's more like 202,000 (actually quite a bit larger than that: 1.2mill vs 937,500):
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom042207/index.php?startpage=30

Of course, that includes sales since inception, which does kinda give HD-DVD the edge since it was out slightly longer. It also has, and still has the price advantage. But, it seems like HD didn't do too well for the first quarter. I think the link said it was being outsold 3:1.

So while they are only about 250,000 behind in total sales, current trends don't seem to favor HD too much.

Like I've been saying before though, these sales and attach rates you keep quoting don't mean too much as the war is far from over. I don't know how reliable this source is, but I am more inclined to believe a neutral 3rd party over HD or BD groups.

And, just to reiterate millrat did say BD had 'more' movies that people want. Since we seem to be judging it on sales, he is technically right, even if only by a small margin.[/QUOTE]

Ive seen several reports showing different amount sold. BDA says one thing, Neilsen says another. Who know's really. If you want to take the Nielsen numbers thats fine, it still stand that Blu-Ray has an attach rate of less then 1 movie per player, while HD DVD is sitting pretty at 4/5:1 . Yes, attach rates do mean something. Yes, PS3 is counted as a Blu-Ray player. Yes, The 360 add-on is counted as an HD DVD player. Don't think for a minute that attach rates don't mean a thing...because they do.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Ive seen several reports showing different amount sold. BDA says one thing, Neilsen says another. Who know's really. If you want to take the Nielsen numbers thats fine, it still stand that Blu-Ray has an attach rate of less then 1 movie per player, while HD DVD is sitting pretty at 4/5:1 . Yes, attach rates do mean something. Yes, PS3 is counted as a Blu-Ray player. Yes, The 360 add-on is counted as an HD DVD player. Don't think for a minute that attach rates don't mean a thing...because they do.[/QUOTE]
THe PS3 is counted but don't you think a lot of people have bought the PS3 because they just want to play games. Who know how many people have bought it without a HD TV. So the attach rate numbers are kind of hit and miss. I agree they count. But when they are counting the PS3 in there it kind of makes them off and you can't disagree on that. Yes people are buying a product capable of playing Blu-Ray movies and may use that in the future but you do not know how many of those people are actually using it now or not.
 
[quote name='DomLando']Can you please tell me where the Walmart deal has been "confirmed?" Why should you ignore the fact that they denied it? And also why do you think this has to mean studios will leave. I agree it will help HD DVD but who know how much? This is just wishful thinking right now on your part.[/QUOTE]

Did you read that post? Just because some random person at Wal-Mart denied it does not mean its not going to happen. Too many people with insider knowledge have proved it to be true, some have even gone as far as to order some of the same units to be branded with there store name on them. Its happening.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10422652
Its a 2500+ post thread and I'm not going to go over every single post and quote it here. Its happening, and Blu-Ray owners don't like it. Just how they don't like Samsung making a Dual Player. They need to step it up with releases (Including the 30+ that have been delayed for no reason from Fox and Sony) if they want to even attempt to stay in the game. Sony have claimed they have over a 1,000 titles mastered in High-Def...what's the hold up? Why so many delayed titles? So we can have a Spider-Man bonus disc?
 
[quote name='DomLando']THe PS3 is counted but don't you think a lot of people have bought the PS3 because they just want to play games. Who know how many people have bought it without a HD TV. So the attach rate numbers are kind of hit and miss. I agree they count. But when they are counting the PS3 in there it kind of makes them off and you can't disagree on that. Yes people are buying a product capable of playing Blu-Ray movies and may use that in the future but you do not know how many of those people are actually using it now or not.[/QUOTE]

PS3 plays Blu-Rays therefore it should be counted. Considering Sony themselves claim 80% of PS3 Owners will buy and watch Blu-Rays there is no reason to disregard that. Yes, Im sure most purchased it for games, but it still plays movies. Where would Blu-Ray be without the PS3? Neutral? How many CAGs use it only for Blu-Ray movies (Me)? How many people who have no interest in this war unless they have a PS3? (Dpatel, 4 movies).
 
[quote name='gizmogc']PS3 plays Blu-Rays therefore it should be counted. Considering Sony themselves claim 80% of PS3 Owners will buy and watch Blu-Rays there is no reason to disregard that. Yes, Im sure most purchased it for games, but it still plays movies. Where would Blu-Ray be without the PS3? Neutral? How many CAGs use it only for Blu-Ray movies (Me)? How many people who have no interest in this war unless they have a PS3? (Dpatel, 4 movies).[/QUOTE]
But you also have to understand why the numbers are like they are then. If you are saying they have to be counted that's fine but you state that most purchased it for games so if they did that and they are counting it towards the numbers you are providing where is your argument? I'm not saying it is not a good thing for HD DVD but the numbers are off because of the PS3. Therefore they are not as significant as you make them. And like I said before I hate the format war and wish it would just end. But your comments about Walmart are a little ridiculous. We know it would help HD DVD but who knows by how much. Who knows which studio will jump ship or not. You are just making random assumptions. Also if Blu Ray is in the lead right now why are you even stating they should step anything up. Right now they have had numerous delays with Fox and Sony and even delays with BD-J and they are still in the lead. So you saying they need to step it up makes no sense to me.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Where did you get your facts? The walmart deal has already been denied. And if the blue diode cost has dropped by 90%, couldn't we see BR players at the same price as HD players? Maybe even cheaper? I still thank this will not matter until more studios decide to support HD. Without the support of more studios I can't see how HD can win this war.[/quote]
wal-mart deal is confirmed. even wal-mart's rep pretty much confirmed it w/o confirming it.

and HD DVD also uses blue lasers. the price diff between BR & HD DVD is because BR has higher licencing costs and the actual mechanical drive itself is harder to build than HD DVD which is essentially a DVD drive w/ a blue laser.
 
[quote name='DomLando']But you also have to understand why the numbers are like they are then. If you are saying they have to be counted that's fine but you state that most purchased it for games so if they did that and they are counting it towards the numbers you are providing where is your argument? I'm not saying it is not a good thing for HD DVD but the numbers are off because of the PS3. Therefore they are not as significant as you make them. And like I said before I hate the format war and wish it would just end. But your comments about Walmart are a little ridiculous. We know it would help HD DVD but who knows by how much. Who knows which studio will jump ship or not. You are just making random assumptions. Also if Blu Ray is in the lead right now why are you even stating they should step anything up. Right now they have had numerous delays with Fox and Sony and even delays with BD-J and they are still in the lead. So you saying they need to step it up makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE]

As ive said, regardless if 100% of PS3 owners use it as a Blu-Ray player it should be counted. Blame Sony, they put it in their system.

I'm not getting into the Wal-Mart thing yet again, my thoughts have been posted in the past few days in this thread.
 
[quote name='DomLando']Can you please tell me where the Walmart deal has been "confirmed?" Why should you ignore the fact that they denied it? And also why do you think this has to mean studios will leave. I agree it will help HD DVD but who know how much? This is just wishful thinking right now on your part.[/quote]
WM didnt deny it. they just didnt confirm it. thats 2 very different things.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=10557

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] Spokesperson O’Brien wouldn't comment on the HD DVD player order but said Wal-Mart is in the process of revamping its electronics department to entice both tech savvy early adopters as well as general consumers with improved products at discounted prices.

“[Most] of the shoppers asking about and purchasing either Blu-ray or HD DVD are already pretty savvy technically about both — they are the kind of consumer that absolutely wants the very best and latest in quality that's available,” said O’Brien via e-mail. “It's not quite yet a product the average shopper is attune too, but we anticipate that will change very soon as prices continue to come down.”[/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
I feel like I'm swatting a bees' nest with a giant stick, but here we go.

Is there any consensus on which format looks/sounds/play better at this point? Or is it simply a mixed bag right now, depending on how much a given studio is willing to do to make the transfer and exectuion work out properly?
 
[quote name='daroga']I feel like I'm swatting a bees' nest with a giant stick, but here we go.

Is there any consensus on which format looks/sounds/play better at this point? Or is it simply a mixed bag right now, depending on how much a given studio is willing to do to make the transfer and exectuion work out properly?[/QUOTE]

They're mostly equal, if anyone tells you differently its because they're the proud owner of fanboy-glasses.
 
[quote name='daroga']I feel like I'm swatting a bees' nest with a giant stick, but here we go.

Is there any consensus on which format looks/sounds/play better at this point? Or is it simply a mixed bag right now, depending on how much a given studio is willing to do to make the transfer and exectuion work out properly?[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Both formats has its advantages and disadvantages.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']They're mostly equal, if anyone tells you differently its because they're the proud owner of fanboy-glasses.[/quote]Are you following me around CAG being a helpful genie and answering my questions? ;)

That's kinda what I figured. I mean, essenitally, we're only talking about different way to write data to a disc. You could wasily do Blu-Ray and HD DVD quality stuff on a DVD-9, but you could only have it be a very short time-span. It's less about the media format and all about the content on the disc.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']As ive said, regardless if 100% of PS3 owners use it as a Blu-Ray player it should be counted. Blame Sony, they put it in their system.[/QUOTE]

Intent should definitely play a role in these numbers. There is a clear difference between the PS3 versus standalone players and the HDDVD add-on. People aren't going to buy the latter unless they intend to buy HD/BD movies.

It's very possible the majority of people with PS3s don't have any interest in movies. Sony claiming 80% do means nothing - they have enough reason to skew numbers that such an arbitrary figure holds no clout.
 
[quote name='daroga']Are you following me around CAG being a helpful genie and answering my questions? ;)

That's kinda what I figured. I mean, essenitally, we're only talking about different way to write data to a disc. You could wasily do Blu-Ray and HD DVD quality stuff on a DVD-9, but you could only have it be a very short time-span. It's less about the media format and all about the content on the disc.[/QUOTE]

Actually you need a blu-ray or HD-DVD player not so much to be able to read the wavelength of the disc but also for the CPU processor that's in every player. Its used to process the 1080p signal.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Actually you need a blu-ray or HD-DVD player not so much to be able to read the wavelength of the disc but also for the CPU processor that's in every player. Its used to process the 1080p signal.[/quote]
Yes, because of that were not true, we would have seen 1080p releases on DVD for some of the shorter content out there.

Anyone have a D-VHS player? ;)
That can do 1080i.

(man, i love my new avatar, so pretty)
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Actually you need a blu-ray or HD-DVD player not so much to be able to read the wavelength of the disc but also for the CPU processor that's in every player. Its used to process the 1080p signal.[/quote]True enough. My mind was in data mode. Technically a PC with a DVD drive could display 1080p content from a DVD-9 disc just fine. Of course, if that made a difference, the concept of a media PC in the living room would've really taken off mainstream and not just with dorks like me. ;)

Is's odd, as this "war" rages, it has nothing to do with the discs. They're all just data on an optical format. What matters is the hardware its played on. And yet sales of the discs, the "meaningless" part is what will make or break it. Just kinda silly. And I'm a nerd. That is all.
 
[quote name='daroga']True enough. My mind was in data mode. Technically a PC with a DVD drive could display 1080p content from a DVD-9 disc just fine. Of course, if that made a difference, the concept of a media PC in the living room would've really taken off mainstream and not just with dorks like me. ;)[/quote]

Yup, but it's just an upscaled image.
It's not actually rendered in 1080.
 
I gotta say, these HD fanboys hilarious. I think if both Wallyworld and the chinese company building the HD players both deny it I'm going to have to take their word for it, for now. I'm not saying it won't happen sometime in the future, but for now it's a dead issue. LET IT GO. I also have to agree the numbers are all fudged up. Not all PS3's are being used as BR players. The 360 add-on of course has to be added, why else would someone buy it. No one is ever going to know what the exact attach rate is, without being able to tell who is using PS3's as BR players.
 
[quote name='dallow']Yup, but it's just an upscaled image.
It's not actually rendered in 1080.[/quote]Not an actual DVD, but 1080 content on a DVD disc or a file on the computer. With some slightly shady software, a person can rip a Blu-Ray or an HD DVD disc to their computer and throw it on a different computer without Blu-Ray or HD DVD drive and play it at full resolution. You could burn that ripped file to a DVD (or heck, even a CD if it was really short) and play it just like it was originally.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']I gotta say, these HD fanboys hilarious. I think if both Wallyworld and the chinese company building the HD players both deny it I'm going to have to take their word for it, for now. I'm not saying it won't happen sometime in the future, but for now it's a dead issue. LET IT GO. I also have to agree the numbers are all fudged up. Not all PS3's are being used as BR players. The 360 add-on of course has to be added, why else would someone buy it. No one is ever going to know what the exact attach rate is, without being able to tell who is using PS3's as BR players.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and you are a Blu-Ray fanboy who will deny if anything good happens for the HD camp. All figures INCLUDE the 360 Add-on, which has sold more then the standalone units. Regardless if a random Wal-Mart spokewoman denied it, its still happening. There is no advantage to them or the HD camp to announce these if its still 3-5 months away. It will simply hurt current HD player sales and piss off the BDA camp. This is happening. Its not a DEAD issue as this may be what kills Blu-Ray, so the HD fans do have a purpose in making a big deal about this. Just by looking at your post history you do not have a 360, but do have a PS3 that you have invested $600 in. Just like DPatel, you want Blu-Ray to win because you have already invested in it. I have invested in both formats and I cwould prefer HD to win, but if BR did it would not matter to me. All I am waiting for is a decent BR player/Dual Player to come out so I can dump my POS3.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Ive seen several reports showing different amount sold. BDA says one thing, Neilsen says another. Who know's really. If you want to take the Nielsen numbers thats fine, it still stand that Blu-Ray has an attach rate of less then 1 movie per player, while HD DVD is sitting pretty at 4/5:1 . Yes, attach rates do mean something. Yes, PS3 is counted as a Blu-Ray player. Yes, The 360 add-on is counted as an HD DVD player. Don't think for a minute that attach rates don't mean a thing...because they do.[/QUOTE]

I'm not taking Neilson's numbers to heart, just pointing out that there are other sources out there with different figures. You seemed awfully content with the 2,000 less figure that HD-DVD was touting.

Why do you keep saying attach rates mean something? If they did, don't think you blu-ray would be dead by now? I mean, no matter how you spin it, a .33 attach rate compared to an attach rate of 5 something is pretty dismal, correct? If those numbers mattered so much, the smarter thing would've been to jump ship long ago.

As for Sony promising 80% of PS3 owners will buy blu-ray. You think studios backed blu-ray solely on that statement? These rich companies did not get where they are by investing millions on what other companies tell them they should. Companies are smart, for the most part, and they know what they are doing.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']I gotta say, these HD fanboys hilarious. I think if both Wallyworld and the chinese company building the HD players both deny it I'm going to have to take their word for it, for now. I'm not saying it won't happen sometime in the future, but for now it's a dead issue. LET IT GO. I also have to agree the numbers are all fudged up. Not all PS3's are being used as BR players. The 360 add-on of course has to be added, why else would someone buy it. No one is ever going to know what the exact attach rate is, without being able to tell who is using PS3's as BR players.[/QUOTE]

Well, we do know the attach rate, and that .33 one is correct. Like I have pointed out thought, this isn't a cause for concern. If it was, Blu-ray would've failed long ago.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Well, we do know the attach rate, and that .33 one is correct. Like I have pointed out thought, this isn't a cause for concern. If it was, Blu-ray would've failed long ago.[/QUOTE]

What that .33 attach rate does show though is that their blu-ray installed user base isn't nearly what they try make it out to be. Quite obviously there's PS3 owners that will never buy blu-ray.

Studios like to see the attach rates, player manufacturers could care less.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I'm not taking Neilson's numbers to heart, just pointing out that there are other sources out there with different figures. You seemed awfully content with the 2,000 less figure that HD-DVD was touting.

Why do you keep saying attach rates mean something? If they did, don't think you blu-ray would be dead by now? I mean, no matter how you spin it, a .33 attach rate compared to an attach rate of 5 something is pretty dismal, correct? If those numbers mattered so much, the smarter thing would've been to jump ship long ago.

As for Sony promising 80% of PS3 owners will buy blu-ray. You think studios backed blu-ray solely on that statement? These rich companies did not get where they are by investing millions on what other companies tell them they should. Companies are smart, for the most part, and they know what they are doing.[/QUOTE]

I believe the studios still have faith in the 'Playstation' name and seem to think the PS3 will be just like the PS2 was last generation with an 80% (give it take) market share. Obviously the PS3 is not since the Wii is killing the PS3, and the 360 continues to sell and even put out a new model with an HDMI port for the video enthusiasts. When this HD player hits Wal-Mart, and if they sell, studios may in fact become Neutral.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']What that .33 attach rate does show though is that their blu-ray installed user base isn't nearly what they try make it out to be. Quite obviously there's PS3 owners that will never buy blu-ray.

Studios like to see the attach rates, player manufacturers could care less.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Attach rates mean everything. If the HD camp can sell 15 movies for every 1 sold it (of sold player numbers) means something. If something that had 300k players sold and something that has 3 million sold can pull the same numbers...what if HD just DOUBLED its players sold and retains the same attach ratio? That would mean HD disc sales would go up. Its all a numbers game and all studios take notice of this, regardless if they are Fox/Disney or Universal/Weinstein.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Exactly. Attach rates mean everything. If the HD camp can sell 15 movies for every 1 sold it (of sold player numbers) means something. If something that had 300k players sold and something that has 3 million sold can pull the same numbers...what if HD just DOUBLED its players sold and retains the same attach ratio? That would mean HD disc sales would go up. Its all a numbers game and all studios take notice of this, regardless if they are Fox/Disney or Universal/Weinstein.[/QUOTE]

And then there's Sony/Columbia which will remain blu-ray exclusive (for obvious reasons) forever...
 
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