- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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"only" Fox and Disney, indeed...and Sony, and MGM/UA. There's not a whole lot of "only" going on there, no?

The week's numbers are up, and I'm beginning to think geko works in the industry: 71/29 it is.

Using the ratios as an estimate of lower sales, and believing that Spiderman 3 sold 130K copies, then the total sales of the single film and the trilogy are 220K+ for the first week.

Transformers, going by those same estimates, sold an additional 40K copies that week as well.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']You know, I can never figure out these numbers, I wish they would just put it as quantities sold. WTF does 100.00 mean? and What's "Si"?[/QUOTE]

They're sales ratios, so the top seller always has "100" - the remaining numbers are sales relative to the top seller. So, if the #1 movie in a given week sells 100K copies, and #2's ratio is 33.33, then Multiply the #1 sales figures by the percentage format of that number (.3333) to get the sales figures.

Sometimes the #1 sales aren't available, so you have to work in the opposite direction, as geko did one week using sales from "The Condemned" to estimate the sales figures.

My best guess as to why they use ratios is because they disguise just how few copies the discs in the #8/9/10 slots and beyond tend to sell.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']They're sales ratios, so the top seller always has "100" - the remaining numbers are sales relative to the top seller. So, if the #1 movie in a given week sells 100K copies, and #2's ratio is 33.33, then Multiply the #1 sales figures by the percentage format of that number (.3333) to get the sales figures.

Sometimes the #1 sales aren't available, so you have to work in the opposite direction, as geko did one week using sales from "The Condemned" to estimate the sales figures.

My best guess as to why they use ratios is because they disguise just how few copies the discs in the #8/9/10 slots and beyond tend to sell.[/quote]

Thanks, now it makes sense...well I understand it but I still think It'd be better to just post quantities instead of making everyone bust out their calculators.
 
[quote name='anomynous']they are[/QUOTE]

Well according to Wikipedia they are not:


HDMI revision 1.0 1.1 1.2/1.2a 1.3/1.3a/1.3b
Maximum signal bandwidth (MHz) 165 165 165 340
Maximum TMDS bandwidth (Gbit/s) 4.95 4.95 4.95 10.2
Maximum video bandwidth (Gbit/s) 3.96 3.96 3.96 8.16
Maximum audio bandwidth (Mbit/s) 36.86 36.86 36.86 36.86
Resolutions possible over single link HDMI at 24bits per pixel 1920x1080p60 1920x1080p60 1920x1080p60 2560x1600p60
RGB yes yes yes yes
YCbCr yes yes yes yes
xvYCC no no no yes
Deep Color no no no yes
Maximum Color Depth (bits per pixel) 24 24 24 48*
Consumer Electronic Control (CEC)** yes yes yes yes
Updated list of CEC commands*** no no no no (1.3a:yes)
Auto lip-sync no no no yes
8channel/192 kHz/24-bit audio capability yes yes yes yes
DVD-A support no yes yes yes
SACD (DSD) support **** no no yes yes
Dolby TrueHD bitstream capable no no no yes
DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream capable no no no yes
Blu-ray/HD DVD video and audio at full resolution***** yes yes yes yes
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Thanks, now it makes sense...well I understand it but I still think It'd be better to just post quantities instead of making everyone bust out their calculators.[/QUOTE]

Oh, it's not all that bad, but I'm knee deep in numbers all day long (Hierarchical Linear Models FTMFW). It hides that, say, the 10th best selling hidef disc that week, 2001, sold a hair over 5,000 discs.

Or, perhaps, the ratios are better indicators to marketing/media types (the intended audience of the magazine, as far as I can tell). Those same 5,000 discs will have a much higher ratio on a week where there isn't a Spiderman-caliber release coming out. Also, imagine what that ratio would be if the box set and single-volume sales were considered together! 2.251!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']"only" Fox and Disney, indeed...and Sony, and MGM/UA. There's not a whole lot of "only" going on there, no?[/QUOTE]

You can't discount them but out of all the companies releasing HDM Warner and Universal are the top two companies in terms of quantity of releases, and if either format lost Warner, it would be a massive (not death) blow.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The week's numbers are up, and I'm beginning to think geko works in the industry: 71/29 it is.[/quote]
You wouldn't say that if you saw my 28:72 guess the week Transformers came out. :whistle2:# Totally didn't give enough credit for the BOGO sale that week. Up until then, I had never missed by more than 4. Maybe things are looking up. :) But even after today, my average is still 4.43, whereas if I had abstained on Transformers week it would be 3.00. :(
 
[quote name='Sporadic']You can't discount them but out of all the companies releasing HDM Warner and Universal are the top two companies in terms of quantity of releases, and if either format lost Warner, it would be a massive (not death) blow.[/quote]
Warner is up there, but Universal is extremely inconsistent. Disney blows them out of the water on average quality of releases.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']I think its funny that you and Myke say that. I think that the war soley relys on WB if and when they go exclusive. If they go HD DVD, that's 2 major studios that crossed over to the red side that were neutral, that would only leave Fox and Disney as the two biggest Blu-Ray supporters, I don't see how this would prolong the war, instead Blu-Ray would just slowly die and eventually, Fox and Disney would jump over as well as the other exclusive studios. Same goes for if they choose Blu-Ray I think the days of HD DVD will be numbered.[/QUOTE]

This would be more likely if both formats were dead even.

I really can't see BD dying at all, to be honest. HD has more of a chance of dying, but even that seems pretty unlikely. If Warner does go BD exclusive, HD will need some way to step it up. They do have the price advantage, still, but, as time goes on, even that is diminishing. Conversely, if Warner goes HD exclusive, BD will have to step it up quite a bit too (maybe price themselves more competitively), but I think BD has a better chance at recovering from a Warner loss than HD does, given the current situation and future outlook of both formats.

EDIT: And congrats geko.. pretty impressive!
 
[quote name='dpatel']IHowever, if they go with HD-DVD, I can't see either winning anytime soon, and combo players will just take over making it a two format gen.[/QUOTE]

You're out of your mind . Warner is the best studio Blu-Ray has .
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Using the ratios as an estimate of lower sales, and believing that Spiderman 3 sold 130K copies, then the total sales of the single film and the trilogy are 220K+ for the first week.

Transformers, going by those same estimates, sold an additional 40K copies that week as well.[/quote]

I can't buy that, for two reasons. First, Sony announced 200k for 6 days, there's no way they underestimated and it was actually 220k+ in 5 days. Second, we know Transformers was at right around 31k last week (a 71% drop IIRC). Had it not been for the A2 sale, it certainly would have fallen quite a bit more. I can't see sales picking up 33%, especially considering the majority of people who bought it would have done so at Wal-Mart.

If you go by the 130k figure, you get 224k total, whereas if you choose 70k as the "accurate" number, you get 167k. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and fairly close to the released 200k (but ever so slightly lower to account for the one less day). The average of the two is 195.5k, which is probably fairly close. That would be 113.7k copies of the movie by itself, and 81.8k of the trilogy.
 
[quote name='Richlough']You're out of your mind . Warner is the best studio Blu-Ray has .[/quote]
I would disagree, I think Disney is, their Pixar collection and the amount of movies they own with the Touchstone, Miramax label is quite astounding, plus the quality of movies are always top notch. Either way, Warner is definitaly on top on BOTH sides, not just blu-ray. (better than Sony and MGM anyways).

Either way Geko, Spider-man 3 sold more on Blu-ray than 300 did it's opening week, and by those numbers, by more than 40,000. And considering how new franchise movies always do better on DVD than old ones, the fact that it was criticaly and consumerally panned, and 300 is always seen as more of a "blu-ray ps3 owner movie" I think that is quite astounding that they were able to do that. Although I am surprised more trilogies did not sell with them being on sale, I guess people don't want to double dip and own it on DVD and Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='dallow']He was talking about quantity not quality Geko.

He knows what's important.[/quote]

My bad, I see that now. In that case, Sony actually has ONE more BD title than Warner does. :lol:
 
[quote name='Richlough']You're out of your mind . Warner is the best studio Blu-Ray has .[/QUOTE]

I still think they have enough support to survive until combo players hit a mainstream enough price. Doesn't mean BD will perform well, but it doesn't really take much to just survive until combo players hit. Look how long some of the 'dead' formats survived.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I still think they have enough support to survive until combo players hit a mainstream enough price. Doesn't mean BD will perform well, but it doesn't really take much to just survive until combo players hit. Look how long some of the 'dead' formats survived.[/quote]
I would so love it if WB went HD DVD exclusive and then throw in an "I told you so" to you and Myke when Blu-Ray starts dying. There's no way in hell that they would survive in the long run with Disney and Fox, yes I know that Sony/MGM is in the picture as well (duh, that's a given), but lets face it, most of the top selling titles for Blu-Ray come from WB & Disney followed by the rest.
 
[quote name='geko29']Warner is up there, but Universal is extremely inconsistent. Disney blows them out of the water on average quality of releases.[/QUOTE]

I think in back catalog titles Universal would slay Disney .
 
[quote name='dallow']Doesn't MGM have the most films in it's archives than any other studio?[/quote]
I don't think that matters because their releases are always crap, and they never really release that many movies in the first place.

And to be fair, FOX was MIA for a while and is really starting to pick up their releases. I Think you guys are underestimating Lionsgate, no they are not a big studio, but their movies are always great to watch on Blu-ray and pack a lot of extras.

Either way, I think Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM, Lionsgate could hold off Warner/Paramount/Universal.

All sony needs to do is release Ghostbusters.;)

And While universal may have more, Disney has a MUCH MUCH better quality overall, and I prefer Quality > Quantity persoanlly.
 
[quote name='geko29']My bad, I see that now. In that case, Sony actually has ONE more BD title than Warner does. :lol:[/quote]I'm so glad you're objective about these things!
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I would disagree, I think Disney is, their Pixar collection and the amount of movies they own with the Touchstone, Miramax label is quite astounding, plus the quality of movies are always top notch. Either way, Warner is definitaly on top on BOTH sides, not just blu-ray. (better than Sony and MGM anyways).
.[/quote]
How long have those studios been around ?

Founded in 1918, WesBen is the third-oldest American movie studio in continuous operation, after Paramount Pictures, founded in 1912 as Famous Players, and Universal Studios, also founded in 1912.

From Wiki

How much back catalog do you think they have ?
They been around for 80 years .
The others started in the '80's.

You guys should really wait for Myke to get home from work before you post .
 
I'm still right about MGM I believe.
They're the fourth or fifth oldest studio, but have had the most output of all.

EDIT:
I am.

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc. is an independent, privately-held motion picture, television, home video, and theatrical production and distribution company. The company owns the world's largest library of modern films, comprising approximately 4,000 titles, and over 10,400 episodes of television programming. Its film library has received 208 Academy Awards, one of the largest award winning collections in the world, and includes numerous successful film franchises
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Richlough']How long have those studios been around ?

Founded in 1918, WesBen is the third-oldest American movie studio in continuous operation, after Paramount Pictures, founded in 1912 as Famous Players, and Universal Studios, also founded in 1912.

From Wiki

How much back catalog do you think they have ?
They been around for 80 years .
The others started in the '80's.

You guys should really wait for Myke to get home from work before you post .[/quote]
Quality > Quantity. I was just trying to point out that Disney has more movies that the Disney brand has more movies than just the typical cartoons. The fact that Disney has become part of American Culture, with Disney world and their movies, and you add in the fact that they have more movies with the Touchstone, Pixar and Miramax labels, they are more important to Blu-ray than Warner Bros. If universal releases 10 movies and Disney releaes 10 movies, I know I don't have to worry about the quality of the Disney movies being bad, can't say the same for really any other company.

Dallow, the problem with MGM is that I believe Warner owns 20% of their catalog, with Fox and Sony owning the rest.

AND Don't forget Lionsgate! :)
 
You sure Corner?

MGM is owned by an investor consortium comprised of Providence Equity Partners, TPG, Sony Corporation of America, Comcast Corporation, DLJ Merchant Banking Partners and Quadrangle Group.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Sporadic']You can't discount them but out of all the companies releasing HDM Warner and Universal are the top two companies in terms of quantity of releases, and if either format lost Warner, it would be a massive (not death) blow.[/QUOTE]

That's what I was getting at.

[quote name='geko29']You wouldn't say that if you saw my 28:72 guess the week Transformers came out. :whistle2:# Totally didn't give enough credit for the BOGO sale that week. Up until then, I had never missed by more than 4. Maybe things are looking up. :) But even after today, my average is still 4.43, whereas if I had abstained on Transformers week it would be 3.00. :([/QUOTE]

Outliers FTL.

[quote name='geko29']I can't buy that, for two reasons. First, Sony announced 200k for 6 days, there's no way they underestimated and it was actually 220k+ in 5 days. Second, we know Transformers was at right around 31k last week (a 71% drop IIRC). Had it not been for the A2 sale, it certainly would have fallen quite a bit more. I can't see sales picking up 33%, especially considering the majority of people who bought it would have done so at Wal-Mart.

If you go by the 130k figure, you get 224k total, whereas if you choose 70k as the "accurate" number, you get 167k. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and fairly close to the released 200k (but ever so slightly lower to account for the one less day). The average of the two is 195.5k, which is probably fairly close. That would be 113.7k copies of the movie by itself, and 81.8k of the trilogy.[/QUOTE]

Or, much more simply, if the trilogy sold 70K copies and the single 130K, the ratio would be .5385, far less than .7195. Something doesn't add up, that's for certain.

[quote name='dallow']Doesn't MGM have the most films in it's archives than any other studio?[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter much, since they're doing fuck-all with them.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Quality > Quantity. I was just trying to point out that Disney has more movies that the Disney brand has more movies than just the typical cartoons. The fact that Disney has become part of American Culture, with Disney world and their movies, and you add in the fact that they have more movies with the Touchstone, Pixar and Miramax labels, they are more important to Blu-ray than Warner Bros. If universal releases 10 movies and Disney releaes 10 movies, I know I don't have to worry about the quality of the Disney movies being bad, can't say the same for really any other company.[/quote]
Just because it has a "Disney" label doesn't make it quality. High School Musical, High School Musical 2, Hannah Montana, Pocahontas 2, Lion King 1 1/2, Krunks New Groove, Mulan 2, Jungle Book 2, Peter Pan 2, Sleeping Beuty 2 & 3, Bambi 2, Little Mermaid II...etc.


[quote name='Steve Jobs']We feel sick about Disney doing sequels. If you look at the quality of their sequels it's pretty embarrassing.[/quote]
source: http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=18376
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Quality > Quantity. I was just trying to point out that Disney has more movies that the Disney brand has more movies than just the typical cartoons. The fact that Disney has become part of American Culture, with Disney world and their movies, and you add in the fact that they have more movies with the Touchstone, Pixar and Miramax labels, they are more important to Blu-ray than Warner Bros. If universal releases 10 movies and Disney releaes 10 movies, I know I don't have to worry about the quality of the Disney movies being bad, can't say the same for really any other company.[/QUOTE]

I know about Disney , I'm 36 years old .

I guess that's why I don't give a shit about 'Meet the Robinsons' .

You put way too much stock in new releases , a lot of people buy movies to watch over and over again .

Shit like Wild Hogs or The Haunted Mansion is nothing compared to Animal House or Blues Brothers .
 
[quote name='dallow']Classic Disney is the only good Disney.

Pixar is not Disney.[/QUOTE]

Not anymore , and I'm pretty sure I could count the Pixar movies without having to remove my shoes and socks .
 
[quote name='Richlough']I know about Disney , I'm 36 years old .

I guess that's why I don't give a shit about 'Meet the Robinsons' .

You put way too much stock in new releases , a lot of people buy movies to watch over and over again .

Shit like Wild Hogs or The Haunted Mansion is nothing compared to Animal House or Blues Brothers .[/quote]

I think out of everyone here I don't put stock in new releases, I am waiting to buy a lot of bond films, Ghostbusters, and other old movies until they come out on Blu-ray. But New releases are the ones that always sell the most.

And Disney has a lot of classics, so I don't see the point there.

Either way, Disney is still the most important Studio in my mind.
 
[quote name='dallow']Classic Disney is the only good Disney.

Pixar is not Disney.[/quote]
:applause:

I do love Pixar though, they may not be Disney but now that they're owned by Disney I hope that they don't start skimping on the quality of the titles they release. I mean seriously if I was to go Blu-Ray it would be because of Pixar, I wan't Cars, Nemo, The Incredibles, A Bug's Life, Toy Story 1 & 2, Monster's Inc...but that would be pretty much it.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']
Either way, Disney is still the most important Studio in my mind.[/QUOTE]

I guess , if your talking about theme parks .:lol:
 
[quote name='Richlough']Not anymore , and I'm pretty sure I could count the Pixar movies without having to remove my shoes and socks .[/quote]What?
I was just saying I only like older Disney flicks and productions.
And I don't consider Pixar a part of Disney, even when they were partners.
 
[quote name='Richlough']I guess , if your talking about theme parks .:lol:[/quote]

Nope, I am talking about all Pirates movies, The Rock, Con-Air, Deju Vu, The Prestige, Apocalypto, Cars, Ratatouille, Sleeping Beauty, Crimson Tide, Meet the Robinsons, etc, but I digress.

Plus, they own the domestic rights to Equilibrium, if they were ever smart enough to release it.
 
[quote name='dallow']What?
I was just saying I only like older Disney flicks and productions.
And I don't consider Pixar a part of Disney, even when they were partners.[/QUOTE]

Oops , I didn't know they made up .
 
[quote name='dallow']Have the Cars and Rata2E reviews left you drooling Linkin? (did for me!)
Both are perfect on audio and video.[/quote]
:drool: Shut up! ;)

Though I got Shrek The Third coming and its supposed to be excellent quality, early reviews are saying it looks and sounds phenomenal.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']:drool: Shut up![/QUOTE]

If you hold off on someathem imports, you might be able to add a 40GB to your family pretty soon, no? ;)

Maybe dallow and I will get you a nice Pixar Blu-Ray for Christmas.
 
I thought Pixar was on its own...but, clearly, the BR of Ratatouille suggests otherwise, no?

I read the HDD review. I'm not Peter Bracke's biggest fan, but this was cute:

"Although the concept of a talking critter movie is hardly anything new, Pixar has never been interested in churning out the kind of frantic, cluttered, pop-culture-referencing stew that usually passes for an animated movie these days (sorry, Shrek!)."
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If you hold off on someathem imports, you might be able to add a 40GB to your family pretty soon, no? ;)

Maybe dallow and I will get you a nice Pixar Blu-Ray for Christmas.[/quote]

I can't. I just can't justify spending $499 for a straight up Blu-Ray player and Ratchet & Clank ;). Also now with the drop of PS2/PS1 support it even makes me want it less. I have a ton of PS2 titles that I haven't really played through, The Sly Coopers, God Of War, The Jak & Daxters plus a few others that I would have loved to eventually play on a PS3.
 
That's a deal right there Linkin.
Buy a PS3, get free Pixar film.

Decades from now we'll be watching these Pixar films. Most of them are AAA, and timeless.
I can't say the same for Shrek.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I thought Pixar was on its own...but, clearly, the BR of Ratatouille suggests otherwise, no?

I read the HDD review. I'm not Peter Bracke's biggest fan, but this was cute:

"Although the concept of a talking critter movie is hardly anything new, Pixar has never been interested in churning out the kind of frantic, cluttered, pop-culture-referencing stew that usually passes for an animated movie these days (sorry, Shrek!)."[/quote]
Jan. 26 2006
Walt Disney has announced that it is buying Pixar, the animated studio led by Apple head Steve Jobs, in a deal worth $7.4 billion.
Click to expand...
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/disney_pixar_deal/
 
Blu ray sales dominate again with 71%.

http://www.engadgethd.com/category/hd-dvd/

Only one HD disc in the top ten.

1. Spider-Man 3 BD 100.00
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 71.95
3. Transformers HD 31.42
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 8.82
5. 300 BD 6.56
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 5.03
7. License to Wed BD 4.24
8. The Shining BD 4.11
9. Mr. Brooks BD 4.03
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 3.88
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Nope, I am talking about all Pirates movies, The Rock, Con-Air, Deju Vu, The Prestige, Apocalypto, Cars, Ratatouille, Sleeping Beauty, Crimson Tide, Meet the Robinsons, etc, but I digress.

Plus, they own the domestic rights to Equilibrium, if they were ever smart enough to release it.[/QUOTE]

Not that you'll be able to appreciate them but here goes .

To Kill a Mockingbird
The Birds
American Graffiti
Jaws
Slap Shot
Smokey and the Bandit
National Lampoon's Animal House
The Blues Brothers
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Scarface
Sixteen Candles
Back to the Future
The Breakfast Club
Field of Dreams
Uncle Buck
 
[quote name='dallow']Oh, haven't kept up with the whole Pixar/Disney thing.
Interesting.[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought you were calling me out on .:)
 
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