- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='flizmo007']Just read on AVSforum that Sony's new Blu-Ray player, Model: BDP-S300, scheduled to ship this month will cost $499, down from the originally planned price of $599. Granted this is true, how do you think it will affect the format war and also how do you think it will affect PS3 sales. I personally know of about 5 people that bought a PS3 strictly for a Blu-Ray player and can care less about gaming. Any thoughts?

"TVPredictions.com has learned that at least one electronics chain in the Washington, D.C. area has been notified that the player (Model: BDP-S300) will be priced at $499.

The chain's representative spoke to TVPredictions.com in confidence. However, he said Sony plans to ship the new Blu-ray player this month and it will cost $499. "

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sonysurprise060107.htm[/QUOTE]

It simply means Sony see's HD DVD as a threat with their now $299.99 player and feel they need to lower the price or else. It seems very possible to see a $300 Blu-Ray player and a $200 HD DVD player by the Holidays. Which is great for people who want to get into the HD market, and they now can buy both and support both formats. This war will not be ending anytime soon so either suck it up and stick to one format, or buy both and enjoy. I did, and I am.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']It simply means Sony see's HD DVD as a threat with their now $299.99 player and feel they need to lower the price or else. It seems very possible to see a $300 Blu-Ray player and a $200 HD DVD player by the Holidays. Which is great for people who want to get into the HD market, and they now can buy both and support both formats. This war will not be ending anytime soon so either suck it up and stick to one format, or buy both and enjoy. I did, and I am.[/QUOTE]

I am currently in the HDDVD side right now but only for financial reasons. Once price of players drop I will definitely be going nuetral.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I'm guessing studios aren't using the same logic as you. I am hoping studios are smart enough to realize that with the PS3, attach ratio is naturally going to be a lot lower.[/QUOTE]

Aside from the fact that there have been WAY more then twice as many Wii's sold then PS3s, but that Wii's are still in VERY high demand and sell out almost instantly according to many posters here. Yet the PS3 sits on the shelf and rots.

Lets not get into attach rates because I'm sure when Sony, yes Sony, convinced alot of the movie studios to pick Blu-Ray instead of HD DVD was because they were implementing Blu-Ray into there PS3, and since last gen the PS2 had 75-80% of all console sales, its not shocking they chose Blu-Ray. Now, however, the attach rates for Movies to hardware is .33% per player...which is VERY bad. HD DVD is at around 5-6 movies per player, including the 360 add-on. Thats a pretty damn big difference that the Blu-Ray studios do notice. What happens when HD DVD doubles there player sales in the coming months? Will those attach rates remain the same? If so, will HD DVD sales surpass Blu-Ray? Art this point it hardly matters as the numbers of Pirates is the same that American Pie Part 18 would sell in a week. The numbers mean nothing but to tout ans to try and sell more hardware.

Now, since its both Pirates movies combined making 47k, why can't we take the 14k number of Matrix and times it by three, since there are 3 movies in a boxset? Hell, if Sony can do it to show how 'impressive' Pirates was, why not take the same logic and apply it to 'The Matrix'. Like I said before, at $25 its easy to swallow buying a Pirates movie, while $80+ (since it was on sale last week, MSRP is really $100/$/120) is not. I bought both Pirates and not The Matrix (yet) due to that fact.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Aside from the fact that there have been WAY more then twice as many Wii's sold then PS3s, but that Wii's are still in VERY high demand and sell out almost instantly according to many posters here. Yet the PS3 sits on the shelf and rots.[/QUOTE]

So, when Wii outsells the PS3 2:1, the PS3 is rotting, but when Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD 3:1 for the first quarter, HD-DVD is 'still selling'. The former situation usually ends with multiple companies in the market, while, the latter, generally leads to only one company surviving. So, if anything HD-DVD needs to lead more than the PS3 does, as far as their respective futures are concerned.

I'm going to pull a gizmogc for a second and say that the PS3 is actually selling pretty close to what the 360 was at this point in time, with a higher price and more competition.

And what do Wii sales have to do with the format war? Did I miss something? Is pushing HD-DVD? I seriously doubt the studios care how well the PS3 does against the Wii. The are more concerned with how well the PS3 does against HD-DVD players. I guess, indirectly, that does equate to them caring about the PS3s place in the console war, but if the PS3 came out in last in the console war, but still managed to outsell HD-DVD players by a WIDE margin, studios would be happy.

[quote name='GizmoGC']Lets not get into attach rates because I'm sure when Sony, yes Sony, convinced alot of the movie studios to pick Blu-Ray instead of HD DVD was because they were implementing Blu-Ray into there PS3, and since last gen the PS2 had 75-80% of all console sales, its not shocking they chose Blu-Ray. Now, however, the attach rates for Movies to hardware is .33% per player...which is VERY bad. HD DVD is at around 5-6 movies per player, including the 360 add-on. Thats a pretty damn big difference that the Blu-Ray studios do notice. What happens when HD DVD doubles there player sales in the coming months? Will those attach rates remain the same? If so, will HD DVD sales surpass Blu-Ray? [/QUOTE]

You've been using this same argument for months now. I would think that with such a drastic difference in attach rates (.33% vs. 5-6), Blu-ray would be dead by now. You make it seem like you are the only one that notices these differences in attach rates, and that studios are so short sighted that they won't see what will become of this attach rate. No offense to you, but I do think that, for the most part, studios do know what they are doing, and there is a reason the majority of them are supporting blu-ray, regardless of the crappy attach rate. I think that reason is the same thing I have been saying all along, the attach rate really isn't that significant at this point when compare to overall software/hardware sales. You keep throwing out that low attach rate, the high blu-ray player prices, and the crappy PS3 sales, yet nothing drastic has really happened (unless you consider a couple of studios' neutrality drastic. I would think that from the poor numbers from all of the three things I listed above, we should be saying more than just a handful of studios going neutral, you would think that studios would be jumping ship as fast as they could. According to the numbers you quotes, BD really has nothing going for it). The reason this hasn't happened is either: those numbers are as important as you make it out to be, and studios do know what they are doing or, Gizmogc is holier than thou and is the ONLY individual to see through Sony's BS marketing. I'm thinking is the former.

Since we are taking to account attach rates, the choice should be painfully obvious to studios. .33 vs 5-6 is a no brainer. Yet Blu-ray still has more support. I do realize studios are going neutral, but with THAT big of a difference in attach rate, I would've expected a more drastic move (in favor of HD-DVD).. of course, this is if the attach rate mattered as much as you seem to think it does.

[quote name='GizmoGC']Now, since its both Pirates movies combined making 47k, why can't we take the 14k number of Matrix and times it by three, since there are 3 movies in a boxset? Hell, if Sony can do it to show how 'impressive' Pirates was, why not take the same logic and apply it to 'The Matrix'. Like I said before, at $25 its easy to swallow buying a Pirates movie, while $80+ (since it was on sale last week, MSRP is really $100/$/120) is not. I bought both Pirates and not The Matrix (yet) due to that fact.[/QUOTE]

..And if you take the square root of users that own 360s, divide it by the number of potential HD-DVD add-on owners, multiply by Pi, and add the difference, HD-DVD really isn't doing too bad...I swear!

Seriously, just take your own advice:
The numbers mean nothing but to tout ans to try and sell more hardware.

You say that, yet every single figure that puts HD-DVD in a good light you post here and speculate as to what this means for Blu-ray. I've been saying this all along, both formats are selling pretty badly right now, so I have no idea why you are so fixated on these meaningless numbers.
 
[quote name='flizmo007']Just read on AVSforum that Sony's new Blu-Ray player, Model: BDP-S300, scheduled to ship this month will cost $499, down from the originally planned price of $599. Granted this is true, how do you think it will affect the format war and also how do you think it will affect PS3 sales. I personally know of about 5 people that bought a PS3 strictly for a Blu-Ray player and can care less about gaming. Any thoughts?

"TVPredictions.com has learned that at least one electronics chain in the Washington, D.C. area has been notified that the player (Model: BDP-S300) will be priced at $499.

The chain's representative spoke to TVPredictions.com in confidence. However, he said Sony plans to ship the new Blu-ray player this month and it will cost $499. "

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sonysurprise060107.htm[/quote] i think youre right, i also think the PS3s getting a price cut $100-$200 in the mid to late summer followed by a 360 price cut right around the time of halo 3.

why do i think this? because MS delayed the launch of their 65nm CPU because they decided to shrink their GPU to 65nm at the same time and relaunch it as a new premium w/ HDMI at the old premium's price (or cheaper if sony does decide to really hit the chopping block hard w/ the $200 price cut Michael Savner from Banc of America told Business Week it would take to spur sales). hence, why the elite was a limited edition. so you will either get more for the same price, or you can buy an older model premium for $300 and a core for $200 (sub wii price).

so it might detract from PS3 sales for a short while, but i think it will be other budget producers like funai that will break the sub $400 price mark for stand alone BR players. and i dont think BR will be able to catch HD DVD in price even in 2k8. their only chance to actually win and not just exist, is to keep disney and fox exclusive (in the U.S. at least, they're not exclusive in europe) long enough for their players to reach sub $200. and thats going to be very hard if BR cant produce/keep at least 75% of the disc sales. right now its about 58% i think.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']and i dont think BR will be able to catch HD DVD in price even in 2k8[/QUOTE]I don't care about the price of the players, there's no different in price of the movies. Target has been selling Blu-Ray movies $5 cheaper than HD-DVD titles, even if it is because of the double format releases, which is possibly the worst take on a somewhat good idea ever.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']I don't care about the price of the players, there's no different in price of the movies. Target has been selling Blu-Ray movies $5 cheaper than HD-DVD titles, even if it is because of the double format releases, which is possibly the worst take on a somewhat good idea ever.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? If a HD DVD movie is $5 more, its because its a combo. If both movies are on both formats, and HD DVD is NOT a combo, they are the same price.
 
[quote name='dpatel']So, when Wii outsells the PS3 2:1, the PS3 is rotting, but when Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD 3:1 for the first quarter, HD-DVD is 'still selling'. The former situation usually ends with multiple companies in the market, while, the latter, generally leads to only one company surviving. So, if anything HD-DVD needs to lead more than the PS3 does, as far as their respective futures are concerned.

I'm going to pull a gizmogc for a second and say that the PS3 is actually selling pretty close to what the 360 was at this point in time, with a higher price and more competition.

And what do Wii sales have to do with the format war? Did I miss something? Is pushing HD-DVD? I seriously doubt the studios care how well the PS3 does against the Wii. The are more concerned with how well the PS3 does against HD-DVD players. I guess, indirectly, that does equate to them caring about the PS3s place in the console war, but if the PS3 came out in last in the console war, but still managed to outsell HD-DVD players by a WIDE margin, studios would be happy.



You've been using this same argument for months now. I would think that with such a drastic difference in attach rates (.33% vs. 5-6), Blu-ray would be dead by now. You make it seem like you are the only one that notices these differences in attach rates, and that studios are so short sighted that they won't see what will become of this attach rate. No offense to you, but I do think that, for the most part, studios do know what they are doing, and there is a reason the majority of them are supporting blu-ray, regardless of the crappy attach rate. I think that reason is the same thing I have been saying all along, the attach rate really isn't that significant at this point when compare to overall software/hardware sales. You keep throwing out that low attach rate, the high blu-ray player prices, and the crappy PS3 sales, yet nothing drastic has really happened (unless you consider a couple of studios' neutrality drastic. I would think that from the poor numbers from all of the three things I listed above, we should be saying more than just a handful of studios going neutral, you would think that studios would be jumping ship as fast as they could. According to the numbers you quotes, BD really has nothing going for it). The reason this hasn't happened is either: those numbers are as important as you make it out to be, and studios do know what they are doing or, Gizmogc is holier than thou and is the ONLY individual to see through Sony's BS marketing. I'm thinking is the former.

Since we are taking to account attach rates, the choice should be painfully obvious to studios. .33 vs 5-6 is a no brainer. Yet Blu-ray still has more support. I do realize studios are going neutral, but with THAT big of a difference in attach rate, I would've expected a more drastic move (in favor of HD-DVD).. of course, this is if the attach rate mattered as much as you seem to think it does.



..And if you take the square root of users that own 360s, divide it by the number of potential HD-DVD add-on owners, multiply by Pi, and add the difference, HD-DVD really isn't doing too bad...I swear!

Seriously, just take your own advice:
The numbers mean nothing but to tout ans to try and sell more hardware.

You say that, yet every single figure that puts HD-DVD in a good light you post here and speculate as to what this means for Blu-ray. I've been saying this all along, both formats are selling pretty badly right now, so I have no idea why you are so fixated on these meaningless numbers.[/QUOTE]

I could have swore I saw you compare the PS3 sales to the Wii. Maybe I'm just crazy?

I'm still laughing at Sony touting the sales number of BOTH pirates movies to the sales of 2 boxsets of the same movies. Yeah, makes so much sense. Who would buy BOTH Matrix sets? Love Sony PR.

Has anyone read Bill Hunts Anti-HD DVD rant over at his poorly designed website? THAT's a funny read.
 
I would like to see the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for myself on my own TV, but blu-ray players are expensive. Actually, the most affordable one is the PS3. I am willing to bite and get a PS3 this summer.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']I would like to see the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for myself on my own TV, but blu-ray players are expensive. Actually, the most affordable one is the PS3. I am willing to bite and get a PS3 this summer.[/QUOTE]

What kind of TV do you have? There is really no big difference between either format PQ wise. HD DVD has been more consistent with their PQ release while some of the early Blu-Ray have been hit and misses. Both now have just about the same PQ and at this point its what movies you want to buy, audio, extras, etc. I prefer HD DVD because catalog titles are cheaper, they have more movies I would want, and they didn't delay 50%+ of there movies to 'TBA'. Audio means nothing to me since I like in an apt. and can't blast it.

As for a PS3, if you want a Blu-Ray player its your best, most secure purchase. Who knows if any of the current standalone players will be able to handle Blu-Java after October 31st. PS3 is almost guaranteed to.
 
I wish Uni would delay more stuff or release second discs on some. With "Lost In Translation" it may have been all the SD extras they tried to cram on one disc.
Others I think they didn't take enough time on. I'm hoping when "Heroes" comes out at least all the deleted scenes will be in HD.
edit: Gizmo that's assuming it actually happens.
 
PQ really is a moot point now. I understand Gizmo's reasoning for audio, but that is the big deciding factor for me. I bit on the 360 HD-DVD drive because of the price when it first came out, and really wished I had waited and just bought one of he stand alone drive for $250. The audio on the 360 HD-DVD drive really pales in comparison to the PS3. For that reason I buy movies that release on both formats in Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The Elite is not a limited edition. Find me something from the mouth of MS that says so. You can start here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360elitesystem/default.htm[/quote] it was stated many times during the release. go look in the xbox 361 thread. im not going to dig it up for you, ya lazy bum.

or you can just wait and see, i could care less.

edit: a 2 second google 'im feeling lucky' search for "360 elite limited"
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/20/xbox-360-elite-new-black-limited-edition-xbox-with-hdmi-and-120gb-drive/

Xbox 360 Elite: new, black limited edition Xbox with HDMI and 120GB drive


  • The Elite will be limited quantities only; that may be as much or as little as a couple hundred thousand.
  • The case, controller, and Live headset will all be black. It will have all new packaging.
  • Elite will cost $479, and will be a 3rd SKU; it will be sold alongside Premium and Core packs.
  • Eventually Elite hardware (in white plastics) will take the role of the Xbox Premium. That is to say, after the Elite is launched and sold out, future Xbox Premiums will have 120GB / HDMI.
  • We do not yet know exactly when 120GB / HDMI will become the standard for Premium, but it is loosely estimated to be late summer or fall.
  • Elite models run cooler than normal 360s, but they are not yet confirmed to have 65nm chips.
  • Prices may remain the same with the 120GB / HDMI hardware upgrade in the Premium Xbox, but we may still see a price cut on the line when 65nm chips start shipping.
  • The HD DVD drive will not be internal or bundled -- Microsoft never did or nor does not currently have plans to put an HD DVD drive in the 360.
  • There are no current plans to integrate WiFi into the Elite or future Premiums (although that can always change).
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='dallow']Blu-Ray and HD-DVD comparison Mission Impossible III

http://xylon.haloapplications.com/formatwar/missionimpossible3/01/

The picture already there is BD.
When you slide the bar over, you get the HD DVD picture.[/QUOTE]

Thats actually pretty cool. However HD DVD has had more consistent PQ releases while Blu-Ray has been more or less hit and miss. They have improved drastically recently, but at this point, but formats are just about equal on PQ.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I wish Uni would delay more stuff or release second discs on some. With "Lost In Translation" it may have been all the SD extras they tried to cram on one disc.
Others I think they didn't take enough time on. I'm hoping when "Heroes" comes out at least all the deleted scenes will be in HD.
edit: Gizmo that's assuming it actually happens.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand what your trying to say here. You want the SD Extras on a second disc? You want the SD extras in HD on the same disc? You want the SD extras in HD on a second disc?
 
[quote name='TimPV3']I don't care about the price of the players, there's no different in price of the movies. Target has been selling Blu-Ray movies $5 cheaper than HD-DVD titles, even if it is because of the double format releases, which is possibly the worst take on a somewhat good idea ever.[/quote]
ok, but think about it like this. if roughly 1/2 the movies you buy are on combo (which theyre going to discontinue in a while, and movie prices will keep approaching $20 as players approach $200) it would take roughly 120 movies before the price difference of the player breaks even. by the time you collect that many there will probably be $100 players and movies will cost $10-15.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Thats actually pretty cool. However HD DVD has had more consistent PQ releases while Blu-Ray has been more or less hit and miss. They have improved drastically recently, but at this point, but formats are just about equal on PQ.[/quote] well the HD DVD Looks sharper to me. just look at the flames and the truck in the area thats in focus.
 
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/30/hd-dvd-rebate-promotions-a-success/

HD DVD rebate promotion a success?


The recent rebates from Toshiba on stand alone HD DVD players has gotten us pretty excited, and it seems we're not the only ones. Toshiba is claiming that "player sales are up 5-10 times higher than before" and at least the one retailer that shares its data confirms this. In fact over the weekend the HD-A2 was rated the number 1 selling DVD player on Amazon -- no, not just in the HD category, but in all DVD players. While this is great and all, we're not sure how this is going to affect the overall outcome of the format war, but one thing is for sure, this holiday season is going to be very interesting for HD fans.
Click to expand...

and from the comments
The HD-A2 was also number one of ALL Electronics on Amazon.com.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='propeller_head']it was stated many times during the release. go look in the xbox 361 thread. im not going to dig it up for you, ya lazy bum.

or you can just wait and see, i could care less.

edit: a 2 second google 'im feeling lucky' search for "360 elite limited"
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/20/xbox-360-elite-new-black-limited-edition-xbox-with-hdmi-and-120gb-drive/[/QUOTE]

engadget? My dead gramma's a more reliable source.

I suppose you missed the part where I asked you to show me where M-I-C-R-O-S-O-F-T said it would be limited.

You'll find you were as correct about the Elite being limited as you were about the Elite having the 65nm chipset. :lol:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']What kind of TV do you have? There is really no big difference between either format PQ wise. HD DVD has been more consistent with their PQ release while some of the early Blu-Ray have been hit and misses. Both now have just about the same PQ and at this point its what movies you want to buy, audio, extras, etc. I prefer HD DVD because catalog titles are cheaper, they have more movies I would want, and they didn't delay 50%+ of there movies to 'TBA'. Audio means nothing to me since I like in an apt. and can't blast it.

As for a PS3, if you want a Blu-Ray player its your best, most secure purchase. Who knows if any of the current standalone players will be able to handle Blu-Java after October 31st. PS3 is almost guaranteed to.[/QUOTE]

I have a Hitachi LCD 50V500. 1080i is its highest resolution. I don't think my wife will go for a new set, just because it is capable of 1080p. I am leaning towards Blu-Ray so I can have the ability to see movies like Casino Royale and the Pirates of the Jonny Depp in HD.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']PQ really is a moot point now. I understand Gizmo's reasoning for audio, but that is the big deciding factor for me. I bit on the 360 HD-DVD drive because of the price when it first came out, and really wished I had waited and just bought one of he stand alone drive for $250. The audio on the 360 HD-DVD drive really pales in comparison to the PS3. For that reason I buy movies that release on both formats in Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]

So, you bought your PS3 more for playing movies? I'll be honest with you, that is probably the only reason I'd buy a PS3 right now.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I could have swore I saw you compare the PS3 sales to the Wii. Maybe I'm just crazy?[/QUOTE]

Nah, you're not crazy. I was mocking your logic, if you didn't notice. So... what does the Wii have to do with the format war, again?

[quote name='GizmoGC']I'm still laughing at Sony touting the sales number of BOTH pirates movies to the sales of 2 boxsets of the same movies. Yeah, makes so much sense. Who would buy BOTH Matrix sets? Love Sony PR.

Has anyone read Bill Hunts Anti-HD DVD rant over at his poorly designed website? THAT's a funny read.[/QUOTE]

..I'm guessing you aren't going to even try to defend the rest of your post.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']I have a Hitachi LCD 50V500. 1080i is its highest resolution. I don't think my wife will go for a new set, just because it is capable of 1080p. I am leaning towards Blu-Ray so I can have the ability to see movies like Casino Royale and the Pirates of the Jonny Depp in HD.[/QUOTE]

Just go with whatever studio has the releases you want.

Go to highdefdigest and look over the review and release date section.

I see you have an Xbox 360, did you think about grabbing a HD-DVD attachment and just going duel format? They are cheap (150 for a used one) and really get the job done.
 
Yea, that list definitely shows a much better HD-DVD list. Just curious, what makes that list more official? I'm not saying the list I had was right, but just wondering what makes one more official than the other.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']engadget? My dead gramma's a more reliable source.

I suppose you missed the part where I asked you to show me where M-I-C-R-O-S-O-F-T said it would be limited.

You'll find you were as correct about the Elite being limited as you were about the Elite having the 65nm chipset. :lol:[/quote] your dead gramma? real classy. :roll:

i never said it would. i said it COULD
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769194&postcount=225
[quote name='propeller_head']that just backs up what i said. they say the "Limited" black one may have 65 nm because it does run cooler. if that's the case, they've already taped them out & need that few month buffer period to get the numbers out for a geniune "Non-limited" price drop launch including them.

now they were supposed to have the 65nms out this summer anyway. so its only logical that's when the Limited edition would be replacing the premium & the 20GB premium receiving a price cut.

they say it may keep the price. but i dont see that happening, if that were the case; the Limited edition wouldnt be very limited. limited = exclusive, more rare, an excuse for a higher price. if they rebadge it Premium and it becomes white again they would all but have to at least return it to $400 again. the speculation re: 65nm bringing the price cut is not because its needed for a price cut, so much as it would be something for it to coincide w/.[/quote]

you know who Dean Takahashi is right?
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/03/exclusive_microsoft_to_announce_the_xbox_360_elite.html
The new box will go on sale in limited quantities soon for $479.
Click to expand...

now its the color that's supposed to be limited. the console is supposed to keep the same features. they may decide to keep the elite moniker but change it back to white just to avoid confusing customers before their older premiums are liqudated. but nonetheless the elite, as you know it today; will be limited.

wait and see, MS isnt going to say it because MS doesnt want customers to even know what 65nm is, or that they could essentially get it cheaper if they wait a few months. then they might discover that 65nm would be inherently less succeptable to the RoD and not buy now.(even though the high non-MS estimates are 3% or about the same as getting your jacket stolen at a club)

thats the last im gunna say about it, because this is supposed to be a HD DVD/Blu-ray thread and im not about to continue some sort of console flame war you seem to love starting.

i like how you made NO comment about anything relative to the reasoning involved in my take on the HD DVD/Blu-ray discussion. you focused on sematics. unless you somehow disagree that the PS3 and 360 will drop in price?
 
[quote name='propeller_head']your dead gramma? real classy. :roll:

i never said it would. i said it COULD
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769194&postcount=225


you know who Dean Takahashi is right?
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/03/exclusive_microsoft_to_announce_the_xbox_360_elite.html


now its the color that's supposed to be limited. the console is supposed to keep the same features. they may decide to keep the elite moniker but change it back to white just to avoid confusing customers before their older premiums are liqudated. but nonetheless the elite, as you know it today; will be limited.

wait and see, MS isnt going to say it because MS doesnt want customers to even know what 65nm is, or that they could essentially get it cheaper if they wait a few months. then they might discover that 65nm would be inherently less succeptable to the RoD and not buy now.(even though the high non-MS estimates are 3% or about the same as getting your jacket stolen at a club)

thats the last im gunna say about it, because this is supposed to be a HD DVD/Blu-ray thread and im not about to continue some sort of console flame war you seem to love starting.

i like how you made NO comment about anything relative to the reasoning involved in my take on the HD DVD/Blu-ray discussion. you focused on sematics. unless you somehow disagree that the PS3 and 360 will drop in price?[/QUOTE]

It would be semantics if it wasn't another one of your wild-eyed predictions.

See your thoughts sprinkled throughout this thread with regard to the Elite: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123015 (quick! There's time to delete your posts before other people see how bloody wrong you were then!)

I like this one, personally:

[quote name='propeller_head']anybody else think this Black HDMI 120GB 360 w/ price increase is an early April fools joke?

i dont see them changing the color. HDMI maybe. 120GB def. price increase, hardly. color change = wtf?

i see 65nm 360 w/ 120GB and maybe HDMI for same price as current system

current system drops 100 bucks

core drops 50-75 or else is eliminiated.


note: i am psychic and have a crystal ball[/quote]

April Fool's joke, indeed.

Let me explain why I harp on it. We're all well aware of retro fashion coming into and going out of style. Whether it's 80's, 70's, 60's, or whatever. Those damned mesh-back trucker caps were hip for a number of years recently. Now, how is this relevant? I've been telling friends for 5 years or more that eventually leg warmers will make a massive comeback in contemporary fashion. Now, the closest they've come to "retro chic" is showing up in a recent Madonna video ("Hung Up," I believe). In short, I've been wrong for 5+ consecutive years. So, when I'm right, does that mean I've predicted anything properly? Of course not; it's silly to say "I told you so!" at that point, because I'm responsible for more false alarms than correct predictions.

Same with you, pal. Your whole post was another weaving of speculation on the 360; price drops, 65nm chipsets, etc. It's the same song and dance you've been playing before (and the same one you were *wrong* about before!). What, then, pray tell, is your point? If you keep predicting changes to a smaller, cheaper chip, and price drops, well...eventually, you'll be right. But, if you keep repeating this overall, you're going to find yourself more wrong than right. Which is precisely where you were with regard to the Elite: it's not limited, it didn't coincide with price drop, it's the same lawnmower-loud DVD drive, still runs hot, and still the old motherboard.

Someone with your track record of prediction-making ought to go find another hobby.

What does this have to do with the formar war? Well, it renders incorrect your claims in this post: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2978206&postcount=601

Now, doesn't it?

Lastly, it's nice to see you accuse me of arguing semantics when you can't even directly address the questions I ask you. You provide second-hand sources and outdated blogs to support an unproven claim, and then try to flip *your own* argument on its head by claiming MS wouldn't admit they're limited (which, given the abundance of "limited" and "collectible" merchandise in the world, is an absurd argument to make, even for you).

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38830
 
[quote name='dpatel']Yea, that list definitely shows a much better HD-DVD list. Just curious, what makes that list more official? I'm not saying the list I had was right, but just wondering what makes one more official than the other.[/QUOTE]


Well, many of the titles from this list (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782217) have been postponed until who knows when, and others aren't US releases so it's not that list is "unoffical," but I personally have found HDD's release list always to be the most accurate.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']blahblahblahblahblah
im trying to start a console flame war, i have nothing meaningful to contribute, im just bitter because my w/ my ASSERTION that 1080p is superior w/ re: to THIS THREAD Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray *The One and Only* was summarily disproved[/quote]
why yes, i agree w/ you. oh & btw, nice assertion of the consequent. its interesting you didnt actually link TO the quote, instead the entire thread. that post was made FEB 7.

this was back when the only source was an anonymous tip to an austrialin gaming site. and the pics that kept popping up were of Dev units. try on MAR 7 when engaget (you know the site you say is as reliable as your "dead gramma") broke the story, wait who posted that again? http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123015&page=23

if it's raining then the streets are wet.
the streets are wet.
it must be raining. right?

again, what does ANY of this have to do w/ anything except u being a bitter hoity-toity pseudointellectual cold sore? tell me, how does this relate in any way to HD DVD or Blu-ray? again, do you think prices wont drop on consoles? whats YOUR prediction einstein?
 
[quote name='dpatel']Yea, that list definitely shows a much better HD-DVD list. Just curious, what makes that list more official? I'm not saying the list I had was right, but just wondering what makes one more official than the other.[/QUOTE]

For ME, HD DVD has almost a title a week for me to buy this summer. Blu-Ray has almost none...which REALLY bums me out. All this PR talk from Fox and Sony and they delay/cancel all there releases. Most of the lists I see out there still include all those canceled/delayed titles.


For Blu Ray I have...
Cruel Intentions (Already have it on BR thanks to someone on AVS)
Weeds Season 2

Thats IT for the list we have so far. Which SUCKS! Well, make it 3 since Sony will be offering an exchange program for people who bought The Fifth Element for the new, 'better' version.

As for HD DVD
Bruce Almighty
Army of Darkness (non-combo)
Big Lebowski
Dead Silence
Mallrats
Billy Madison
Hot Fuzz
Shaun of the Dead
TMNT
Dawn of the Dead
Bell Witch
Heroes

Only TWO of those are going to be on both HD and BR (TMNT and Bell Witch). I really have no interest in 300 (either format) or the dud Ghost Rider which some AVSers are going nuts about how it will sell so many copies.

Let me add I was ready to buy Meatballs until Sony delayed it. I was ready to buy 'The Graduate' until Sony/MGM delayed it (imported the HD version from France!). I was ready to buy I, Robot, Castaway, Independence Day, Walking Tall, Edward Scissorhands, Dodgeball etc. until they were delayed. Whatever is going on with the BDA needs to be fixed RIGHT away if they even think they are going to beat HD DVD. With the A2 being #1 this week in ALL of Electronics it really says something.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']blahblahblahblahblah
im trying to start a console flame war, i have nothing meaningful to contribute, im just bitter because my w/ my ASSERTION that 1080p is superior w/ re: to THIS THREAD Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray *The One and Only* was summarily disproved[/quote]
why yes, i agree w/ you. oh & btw, nice assertion of the consequent. its interesting you didnt actually link TO the quote, instead the entire thread. that post was made FEB 7.

this was back when the only source was an anonymous tip to an austrialin gaming site. and the pics that kept popping up were of Dev units. try on MAR 7 when engaget (you know the site you say is as reliable as your "dead gramma") broke the story, wait who posted that again? http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123015&page=23

if it's raining then the streets are wet.
the streets are wet.
it must be raining. right?

again, what does ANY of this have to do w/ anything except u being a bitter hoity-toity pseudointellectual cold sore? tell me, how does this relate in any way to HD DVD or Blu-ray? again, do you think prices wont drop on consoles? whats YOUR prediction einstein?
 
Of course prices will drop on consoles; I suppose you failed to read my anecdote about leg warmers. IOW, you're (1) predicting the inevitable (so big deal to you), and (2) since you've been dead wrong about the timing of it before, that won't necessarily make you "right" when it inevitably does happen. Crying wolf and all that.

What it has to do with this thread is your claim of how price drops for the PS3/360 will alter BR/HD DVD purchases. If you can't figure that out, then you truly *are* that thick.

You and I have had many, many unfriendly discussions on this board thus far. I've yet to be wrong. Give me a good reason why I should be bitter.

I linked to the entire thread because you had a large number of posts on there that turned out to be dead wrong. I was providing a more generous "take your pick" approach, y'know. :lol:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']blahblahblahblahblah
im trying to start a console flame war, i have nothing meaningful to contribute, im just bitter because my w/ my ASSERTION that 1080p is superior w/ re: to THIS THREAD Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray *The One and Only* was summarily disproved[/quote]
why yes, i agree w/ you. oh & btw, nice assertion of the consequent. its interesting you didnt actually link TO the quote, instead the entire thread. that post was made FEB 7.

this was back when the only source was an anonymous tip to an austrialin gaming site. and the pics that kept popping up were of Dev units. try on MAR 21 http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2766708&postcount=459
btw engaget (you know the site you say is as reliable as your "dead gramma") broke the story originally
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/the-second-xbox-360-revealed-codename-zephyr/
notice that the version they had was White.
notice also that the color change is the only thing i didnt see happening, however at the time (like i said before in my original post you began all this whining over) no1 knew back then that they were moving the GPU to 65nm as well) that wasnt reported until the very end of April
http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20070430PB208.html


if it's raining then the streets are wet.
the streets are wet.
it must be raining. right?

again, what does ANY of this have to do w/ anything except u being a bitter hoity-toity pseudointellectual cold sore? tell me, how does this relate in any way to HD DVD or Blu-ray? again, do you think prices wont drop on consoles? whats YOUR prediction einstein?
 
I wish more companies would go back and re-transfer some titles. Some of my favorite movies I'll never pick upon an HD format because of the shitty transfers.

On Blu-ray; The Punisher, Jay and Silent Bob: Strikeback, Total Recall, xXx, American Psycho, and Silent Hill.

On HD DVD; Animal House, Christmas Vacation, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, The Breakfast Club, and Accepted
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Of course prices will drop on consoles; I suppose you failed to read my anecdote about leg warmers. IOW, you're (1) predicting the inevitable (so big deal to you), and (2) since you've been dead wrong about the timing of it before, that won't necessarily make you "right" when it inevitably does happen. Crying wolf and all that.

What it has to do with this thread is your claim of how price drops for the PS3/360 will alter BR/HD DVD purchases. If you can't figure that out, then you truly *are* that thick.

You and I have had many, many unfriendly discussions on this board thus far. I've yet to be wrong. Give me a good reason why I should be bitter.

I linked to the entire thread because you had a large number of posts on there that turned out to be dead wrong. I was providing a more generous "take your pick" approach, y'know. :lol:[/quote]
oh? you werent wrong about 1080p? you didnt proport the painfully obvious fanboy mistake you made when you tried to crap all over the HD-A2 by insinuating it was somehow inferior for outputting 1080i?

what was i wrong about? i never said it WOULDNT or WILL anything. i said waaaaaaaaaay back when NO1 saw it coming that it seemed to be around that time for an april fools joke and that the ONLY thing i didnt see happening was black plastics.

now thats the end of that. you obviously have a crazy weak ego, because you just cant seem to actually focus on the TOPIC AT HAND and CONTRIBUTE something MEANINGFUL besides being a bitter flaming troll.:hot:

:whistle2:k:shame:

try actually bringing something to the table instead of flooding this thread w/ garbage.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']I wish more companies would go back and re-transfer some titles. Some of my favorite movies I'll never pick upon an HD format because of the shitty transfers.

On Blu-ray; The Punisher, Jay and Silent Bob: Strikeback, Total Recall, xXx, American Psycho, and Silent Hill.

On HD DVD; Animal House, Christmas Vacation, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, The Breakfast Club, and Accepted[/quote]
they might go back and remaster some of those eventually, like they did on DVD.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']I wish more companies would go back and re-transfer some titles. Some of my favorite movies I'll never pick upon an HD format because of the shitty transfers.

On Blu-ray; The Punisher, Jay and Silent Bob: Strikeback, Total Recall, xXx, American Psycho, and Silent Hill.

On HD DVD; Animal House, Christmas Vacation, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, The Breakfast Club, and Accepted[/QUOTE]

I'm OK with movies that are 20+ years old not being 'perfect'. However movies like Punisher, Jay and Silent Bob, Silent Hill, and Accepted are somewhat poor. Punisher is just plain horrendous.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']For ME, HD DVD has almost a title a week for me to buy this summer. Blu-Ray has almost none...which REALLY bums me out. All this PR talk from Fox and Sony and they delay/cancel all there releases. Most of the lists I see out there still include all those canceled/delayed titles.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. If it's your opinion, then I guess it wasn't wrong, but I thought you meant in general there was a lack of movies, and HD-DVD was loaded. I do HD-DVD does have quite a bit more movies than BD in the coming months.

[quote name='Chris in Cali']Well, many of the titles from this list (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782217) have been postponed until who knows when, and others aren't US releases so it's not that list is "unoffical," but I personally have found HDD's release list always to be the most accurate.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. I wasn't saying either one was correct. I just wanted to know what their sources were. Neither of them are official, but the one you showed seems to be, currently, more up to date. I just assumed that since the avs one was edited today, that they would've incorporated the delays as well. My fault.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Oh ok. I wasn't saying either one was correct. I just wanted to know what their sources were. Neither of them are official, but the one you showed seems to be, currently, more up to date. I just assumed that since the avs one was edited today, that they would've incorporated the delays as well. My fault.[/QUOTE]

The thing is, the list at AVS is not official be any means. The OP of that thread, beatboy77, has apparent 'contacts'. So since he has 'contacts' he is allowed to put any title he wants. Too many examples to go through, but he claimed LOTR would be out on both Formats with BR getting the Extended Versions, Fox would announce new dates of there titles within days (this was over a month ago), Spider-Man would be out, well, now oN Blu-Ray, Star Wars, HD DVD would be exclusive now, Warner Exclusive...etc. I go by Amazon, not by AVS for titles.
 
Well, I see that the moderator also claims to be an insider as well, and adjusts the list accorindingly. But, it seems there is no 'official' list, but between the AVS list, and what chris provided, we can get a good idea.
 
A am new to all this High Def. DVD stuff, and I just had a real quick question. As of right now, what would be the better player, a Blu-Ray player or the 360 HDDVD attachment. I was thinking of getting my Dad the HDDVD attachment player with "HDDVD Planet Earth" for Father's Day, but I just wanted your guy's opinions.
 
[quote name='pop311']A am new to all this High Def. DVD stuff, and I just had a real quick question. As of right now, what would be the better player, a Blu-Ray player or the 360 HDDVD attachment. I was thinking of getting my Dad the HDDVD attachment player with "HDDVD Planet Earth" for Father's Day, but I just wanted your guy's opinions.[/QUOTE]

That depends on way to many things. First, the cheapest Blu-Ray player is either the $600 PS3, or the old dated Samsung unit that may or may not be able to play new movies after October 31st.

The cheapest HD DVD player is the A2, and right now its $299 with 5 free movies at any store you goto. The 360 attachment is $200. I would honestly pay $100 more for the A2 and get the 5 free movies (if not more depending on a store promotion) instead. Planet Earth plays the same, and looks the same on both formats.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Just go with whatever studio has the releases you want.

Go to highdefdigest and look over the review and release date section.

I see you have an Xbox 360, did you think about grabbing a HD-DVD attachment and just going duel format? They are cheap (150 for a used one) and really get the job done.[/QUOTE]

I have the HD-DVD attachment, just want to get a blu-ray player. I keep talking myself more and more into it. I'll take the plunge soon, I'm just worried about buying one and then Sony having a price drop.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']I have the HD-DVD attachment, just want to get a blu-ray player. I keep talking myself more and more into it. I'll take the plunge soon, I'm just worried about buying one and then Sony having a price drop.[/QUOTE]

If you're thinking of getting a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, another aspect to consider is backward compatibility; any price drop in the US will surely coincide with consoles not including the PS2 chipset on them (like those released in Europe and maybe Australia). If you have a PS2 and are comfortable with having it plugged in for years to come, wait for that price drop. If you want an all-in-one unit, then waiting for a price drop may not be in your best interests (even if the EE-removed systems become a $600 80GB PS3, like those seen in Korea and Canada).
 
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