LOST - The Final Season - LOST Auction Aug 21-22 (Post 1439)

I kinda thought that when Locke said "It worked" that he would go all smoke monster and the alt timeline was actually what would happen if the smoke monster was successful.
 
Yea, I think it has to do with those that lean more towards Spirituality and faith were satisfied with the ending. And those that are more interested in the science and technical side were disappointed.

I thought it was good. But I was hoping for some more technical answers that would have me saying "oooo" and I could go back and watch the old shows with a new perspective. But everything that happened at THE END was not connected with the rest of the show... it's just "everyone died eventually and the island WAS".

They could have thrown at least one "What! Hurley was dead the entire series!?" type of twist. So those fans avid about investigating could go back and see the proof and the connection throughout the entire series. But it's obvious they did not have any connections, they just made it up as they went. And that's what bums me out.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Yea, I think it has to do with those that lean more towards Spirituality and faith were satisfied with the ending. And those that are more interested in the science and technical side were disappointed.

I thought it was good. But I was hoping for some more technical answers that would have me saying "oooo" and I could go back and watch the old shows with a new perspective. But everything that happened at THE END was not connected with the rest of the show... it's just "everyone died eventually and the island WAS".

They could have thrown at least one "What! Hurley was dead the entire series!?" type of twist. So those fans avid about investigating could go back and see the proof and the connection throughout the entire series. But it's obvious they did not have any connections, they just made it up as they went. And that's what bums me out.[/QUOTE]

I think it's more the characters vs. island mythos divide outlined earlier. If you were 100% watching for the characters, then it was a great ending. If they island mysteries, Widmore, Darma, Walt etc. etc. where a big part of the draw, then you have to come away at least partly disappointed.

As for the faith thing, I'm 100% atheiest, and have been for going on 20 years, but I still liked the ending for the characters. Not believing in an afterlife didn't lessen the impact for me, it's a fictional show after all! They handled that half (the character arcs) of the show well. They just unfortunately, IMO, largely decided to not handle the mythos side much at all this final season.

I do agree that I was hoping for some answers to mythos stuff that would make rewatching the series great, looking for hints to it etc.

But like you say, the ending is totally disconnected from most of the first 5 seasons so there's little incentive to rewatch.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']All fine explanations. I've just never been a fan of movies, books, art etc. that leave so much vaguely/poorly explained and open to interpretation.

I personally just enjoy storytelling, and want the story told to me. I don't have to like where it goes, but I want to know where it goes![/QUOTE]

I am the same way.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']people are too used to "Twists" or "hey look we got ya" kind of endings. so to have an ending like this kinda annoyed some people.[/QUOTE]

Not really. There was a twist in the flash sideways world for sure, with that being their dead souls waiting to let go, come together and move on--vs. being an alternate reality started when the bomb went off like we were led to believe.

I didn't need a twist to be completely satisifed. Just a passe, by the books, not suprising at all explanation of the major plot points I've outlined before would have sufficed.

It's not the lack of a twists, it's following the shows mythos closely for 6 years and having it tossed aside. It would be like banging a hot chick for six years straight, finally getting ready to blow your load only to have it end and be left with blue balls for eternity. :D
 
Though I haven't really come to a conclusion regarding this finale, here are my thoughts:

1. I'm OK with not knowing much about the island. I did NOT want to know everything, though a few more concrete answers would have been nice. Like, for instance, what exactly the "light" was.

2. Absolutely FANTASTIC ending with Jack dying to save the island and his friends, and Hugo/Ben taking over.

3. WTF was up with the sideways timeline? The writers were just drilling you with the possibility that the finale would end with the original flight landing in LAX in 2004 and nothing having ever happened once island conflicts were finished with MiB and the H bomb. While that would be a little lame (like waking up from a dream), it would be solved by the characters having a flash of their "other" lives, which would mean they can all be together. I guess that was too predictable, though. I'm OK with the purgatory/heaven ending, just not the way they did it, leading us on all season with seemingly meaningful storylines.

Regardless, I'm happy they finished with the characters. Season 1 was the greatest TV season ever because if the development of those characters.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
It's not the lack of a twists, it's following the shows mythos closely for 6 years and having it tossed aside. It would be like banging a hot chick for six years straight, finally getting ready to blow your load only to have it end and be left with blue balls for eternity. :D[/QUOTE]

I know I should feel this way too, since I've slavishly followed the mythos like you obviously have. I guess I'd just prepared myself for the fact that they weren't going to be giving out answers, so it didn't upset me too much in the end. I think the fact that, in a vacuum, it was a fantastic and entertaining finale probably helped a bit in that regard.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I know I should feel this way too, since I've slavishly followed the mythos like you obviously have. I guess I'd just prepared myself for the fact that they weren't going to be giving out answers, so it didn't upset me too much in the end. I think the fact that, in a vacuum, it was a fantastic and entertaining finale probably helped a bit in that regard.[/QUOTE]

I'd accepted we'd get no more about Walt/Aaron, Dharma etc. Probably no more about Widmore etc.

But I thought they'd at least do a go job of finishing the mythos from the Season 5 finale and this season and get into what the smoke monster was, how it was created, more details about what the island was, what the light was, what would have happened if smokey left, how the island gave it's protector powers to live forever, make other's not age etc.

But you're right, in a vacuum the finale was very good. And as I've said repeatedly, I found it a great ending for the character arcs. So I'm not in a rage--I did vote it "good, not great" in my poll. :D
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
But I thought they'd at least do a go job of finishing the mythos from the Season 5 finale and this season and get into what the smoke monster was, how it was created, more details about what the island was, what the light was, what would have happened if smokey left, how the island gave it's protector powers to live forever, make other's not age etc.
[/QUOTE]

Who built the chamber around the source...

Part of me wonders if they even know the answers to these questions.. It's certainly possible they just never intended to explain these things so they don't even know. You'd think it would be an odd choice if they had the answers to these questions and decided not to include them anyway.
 
love to see an entire series place in a airplane looking boxset :) maybe even have the little cages the bears lived in,..... i sure many people would pay 300+ for that lol
 
[quote name='bvharris']Who built the chamber around the source...

Part of me wonders if they even know the answers to these questions.. It's certainly possible they just never intended to explain these things so they don't even know. You'd think it would be an odd choice if they had the answers to these questions and decided not to include them anyway.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's clear that even with the 3 year deadline they self imposed, they were still just making it up as they went for the last 3 years.

They couldn't come up with any answers they liked so they decided to just ignore most all of it.
 
the people that built the light chamber are probably the same that built the statue, the temple etc. well probably never know who it was, only that they were very ancient and knew things we dont. call it atlantis, ancient egyptians, aliens, doesnt matter.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']the people that built the light chamber are probably the same that built the statue, the temple etc. well probably never know who it was, only that they were very ancient and knew things we dont. call it atlantis, ancient egyptians, aliens, doesnt matter.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's stuff I'd like to have seen--have a flashback episode for the island origin could have explained that and a lot of other stuff.

But it's also stuff I could leave unanswered as it predates the show plot--it's just annoying to have plot lines involving the cast not answered. I can live with not knowing the full origin of the island.

But all the other stuff I listed earlier going largely unresolved spoils a lot of the memory of the show for me.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I know I should feel this way too, since I've slavishly followed the mythos like you obviously have. I guess I'd just prepared myself for the fact that they weren't going to be giving out answers, so it didn't upset me too much in the end. I think the fact that, in a vacuum, it was a fantastic and entertaining finale probably helped a bit in that regard.[/QUOTE]

I'd be raging more if it wasn't for the lackluster origin episode of Jacob and Smokey. After that episode aired I knew we weren't going to get a ton of answers, but I still thought we'd at least get a few things.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, it's clear that even with the 3 year deadline they self imposed, they were still just making it up as they went for the last 3 years.

They couldn't come up with any answers they liked so they decided to just ignore most all of it.[/QUOTE]


Agreed! There's so much BS the writers introduced into the show that there was no way for the them to explain/answer all of it.

I'm satisfied with how it ended, although it sucks knowing that the last 3 seasons were all kind of BS. They seriously could have had this same ending at the end of Season 3.

I'm glad its over.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's stuff I'd like to have seen--have a flashback episode for the island origin could have explained that and a lot of other stuff.

But it's also stuff I could leave unanswered as it predates the show plot--it's just annoying to have plot lines involving the cast not answered. I can live with not knowing the full origin of the island.

But all the other stuff I listed earlier going largely unresolved spoils a lot of the memory of the show for me.[/QUOTE]

its frustrating not knowing, but like i said earlier. if they had given it a definitive origin there would be just as many people that are upset. theyd be just as mad to learn it was god/aliens/atlantis/egyptians etc. thats why i said the island just is. its a magic island and you either accept that or you get a headache.
 
[quote name='vkroshin']Agreed! There's so much BS the writers introduced into the show that there was no way for the them to explain/answer all of it.

I'm satisfied with how it ended, although it sucks knowing that the last 3 seasons were all kind of BS. They seriously could have had this same ending at the end of Season 3.

I'm glad its over.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the frustrating part. They could have tacked on this ending to pretty much any of the seasons since it didn't really answer anything much anyway.

Last 3 seasons are definitely frustrating in retrospect. They got away from character development to large extent (compared to seasons 1-3), and focused on moving plot forward. Season 4, getting out of the time jumps. Season 5, getting back to the future. Season 6, stopping smokey.

But then that plot really didn't go anywhere since we got a crappy origin for Jacob and Smokey and little explanation about what it was all about.

Then the ending focuses on the characters, which hadn't been the main focus of the show since season 3!
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's stuff I'd like to have seen--have a flashback episode for the island origin could have explained that and a lot of other stuff.[/QUOTE]

Across the Sea comes in, says hi, and then you remember how much it sucked.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, it's clear that even with the 3 year deadline they self imposed, they were still just making it up as they went for the last 3 years.

They couldn't come up with any answers they liked so they decided to just ignore most all of it.[/QUOTE]

If you wanna see a show where they were making shit up as they went along, watch BSG. It's pretty fucking obvious. I rewatched all of Lost over the last couple weeks, and what really struck me was how well it all flowed and worked together for seasons 4-6. It seemed to me that they had a general idea of what would happen for the next season for 1-3, but not the whole picture. After season 3, I got the vibe from watching it that they really did plan things out, at least when it came to the major plot points. The island/flash forward stories of those seasons moved really well and made sense as I watched. There wasn't much, if any, filler or wasted time.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']the people that built the light chamber are probably the same that built the statue, the temple etc. well probably never know who it was, only that they were very ancient and knew things we dont. call it atlantis, ancient egyptians, aliens, doesnt matter.[/QUOTE]

Everyone had someone come before them, and it always ends once. Whether it be the Egyptians, the Romans, the people who built the statue, the people that built the temple, Dharma, or the people who came in the crashed plane. The island just is what it is, and once you accept that it makes everything much more simple.
 
[quote name='evanft']Across the Sea comes in, says hi, and then you remember how much it sucked.
[/QUOTE]

Across the Sea sucked because they spent the entirety of it focused on the characters of Jacob and MIB when they should have been focusing on the island itself. It sucked because the only thing we learned which we couldn't have otherwise pieced together was that they were brothers, which while neat ultimately mattered zilch to the story.

The concept of an island origin story is not inherently bad, they just badly dropped the ball on the two chances they had this season to make good ones.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy'] The island just is what it is, and once you accept that it makes everything much more simple.[/QUOTE]

But then we're left with a simple character drama with a heavy emphasis on faith, which isn't something I'd have lasted a season through, much less six seasons.
 
[quote name='evanft']Across the Sea comes in, says hi, and then you remember how much it sucked.
[/quote]

But as I said before, I'll take sucky explanations over no explanations in day of the week. And as bvharris pointed out, the real problem was that focused on pretty pointless details about the two characters, and they missed a chance to spend more time explaining the island mystery. Who they got their powers etc.

If you wanna see a show where they were making shit up as they went along, watch BSG. It's pretty fucking obvious. I rewatched all of Lost over the last couple weeks, and what really struck me was how well it all flowed and worked together for seasons 4-6. It seemed to me that they had a general idea of what would happen for the next season for 1-3, but not the whole picture. After season 3, I got the vibe from watching it that they really did plan things out, at least when it came to the major plot points. The island/flash forward stories of those seasons moved really well and made sense as I watched. There wasn't much, if any, filler or wasted time.
Click to expand...

I agree it flowed much better. I think they had a solid, general idea of what they wanted to do.

They just didn't know how to explain the island and Jacob/smokey fully, and never came up with a good way of tying that all to the seasons 1-3 (and dharma which) plot lines and making it all fit together. So they just said fuck it.

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']its frustrating not knowing, but like i said earlier. if they had given it a definitive origin there would be just as many people that are upset. theyd be just as mad to learn it was god/aliens/atlantis/egyptians etc. thats why i said the island just is. its a magic island and you either accept that or you get a headache.[/QUOTE]

Of course.

But I've never been one to give a crap what others think about a tv show, movie, book etc. My only interest is that I enjoy it from start to finish and find it worth the time. Even better if it's great from start to finish and something I can revist periodically over the years.

I don't regret watching Lost. But unless there's some movie, book, spinoff show that gets into fleshing out the island mythos, I doubt I'd ever invest the however many hours to rewatch it all.
 
Open question: Do you think they "owe" it to the fans now to come up with some venue in which they can explain some of the unanswered questions? And if so, would you want them to do so or did they have their chance and blow it?
 
[quote name='bvharris']Open question: Do you think they "owe" it to the fans now to come up with some venue in which they can explain some of the unanswered questions? And if so, would you want them to do so or did they have their chance and blow it?[/QUOTE]

They don't owe fans anything. It's their story and they can do what they want.

But I really hope they do a spin off show, let someone write a series of books with major points approved by them etc. to flesh it out.

They didn't blow it with me, I spent to much time and effort following the mythos. So I'd be up for any further avenue to flesh it out.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']But then we're left with a simple character drama with a heavy emphasis on faith, which isn't something I'd have lasted a season through, much less six seasons.[/QUOTE]

The characters are what drew me into the show. The mystery was just fun backdrop.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They don't owe fans anything. It's their story and they can do what they want.

But I really hope they do a spin off show, let someone write a series of books with major points approved by them etc. to flesh it out.

They didn't blow it with me, I spent to much time and effort following the mythos. So I'd be up for any further avenue to flesh it out.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way, I'm still willing to gobble up anything they'll give me, and I hope they do.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']The characters are what drew me into the show. The mystery was just fun backdrop.[/QUOTE]

It was both for me, but probably a bit more the mystery as I'm never that into shows/movies/books that are JUST character development. Probably because I've never been a people person and never really given a crap about other people's lives etc. So that said, they did a great job making me care a lot about these characters!

And as I noted, it really shifted with lost in seasons 4-6 as they focused much more on the plot and mystery than character development as we were done with flashbacks about main characters lives etc.

So I got even more focused on the mythos than I was before, so I can't help but be half satisfied/half disappointed with the finale.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']But then we're left with a simple character drama with a heavy emphasis on faith, which isn't something I'd have lasted a season through, much less six seasons.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I am not one to normally get too invested in characters of a show, at least not as the main point of it. I don't watch a lot of TV anyway, and when I do, it is for the cool backdrop and mythos of the particular series.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']I agree totally with this. The series finale was a total cop out.
The series should have ended with the 6 getting off the island (that is when the show lost its magic).[/QUOTE]

6 did get off the island.

Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Lapedis, Miles and Richard
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']What a sad sentence. :cry:[/QUOTE]

Well, maybe that's too literal. I care about my family, close friends etc.

But I'm definitely not a people person, big draw of my academic career for me is that I can spend most of my time working on stuff myself, not interacting with the public etc. Just students and colleagues. I've always definitely been a self-focused person for sure. Not a shy introvert, just very particular about who gets into my inner circle etc. as I stay super busy with work and don't want to waste time on other's drama too much etc.

Anyway, what I meant was more that I've never cared about the stories of the lives of people I don't know. i.e. the crappy human interest stories the media is always running etc.

Much less the stories of the lives of fictional characters--unless there is a compelling plot that keeps me watching and helps me care about them. Lost had the plot, but they really jumbled it up over the years and left it a mess after the finale IMO.
 
I still find it funny that the writers had planned to have Jack killed off on the first season, and it was the fanbase behind Jack's character that had them changed the story and he ended up being the major character in the story.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']I still find it funny that the writers had planned to have Jack killed off on the first season, and it was the fanbase behind Jack's character that had them changed the story and he ended up being the major character in the story.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I believe that was in the Pilot, and it was before Matthew Fox was even cast in the role. By the time the show actually aired I believe they'd settled on him as the main protagonist. I could be wrong.
 
Finally chipping in here. The producers' insistence that this is character driven is a season and a half old. They know that what drives the viewers to the show isn't the characters, but they stuck to it because the character-driven idea was easier to finish off.

Hence, the finale was just an extension of this conceit that it's all about the characters. If you're part of the 30-40% (my rough estimate) of the viewership who agreed with that, then the finale was the balls. You got to see Kate and Jack kiss not once but twice and you got to watch all the alt timeline characters grin stupidly at each other upon "waking up." Plus, you got to see what was effectively a wrap party in the church at the end. So mission accomplished on that score.

If you were part of what I'd estimate to be the majority of viewers who got hooked on the show because weird shit was going down and you have a mind that digs puzzles and/or simply wants to know Why? when weird shit goes down, then the finale was hard to swallow.

What annoyed me a bit was that after all the elaborate, intertwined mythology and character backstory, a device that was introduced not only two or three weeks ago (the golden light) played a huge role in closing out the events on the Island. Not that it's necessary to know exactly what the light and that pool were, but when Des went down and we first saw it and the hieroglyphs and all kinds of cool shit, I thought to myself that it might as well have been tinsel and x-mas lights at this point. That feeling of emptiness, for me, characterized a lot of the final season.
 
I wonder if abc will pull off all the episodes from their website when they release the dvd set. That would be a nice way to stick it to their loyal fans lol.

WIll there be a Dancing with the Stars Finale discussion here tonight?

LOL JK

I read yesterdays commercials cost $900,000 per 30 seconds.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's the frustrating part. They could have tacked on this ending to pretty much any of the seasons since it didn't really answer anything much anyway.

Last 3 seasons are definitely frustrating in retrospect. They got away from character development to large extent (compared to seasons 1-3), and focused on moving plot forward. Season 4, getting out of the time jumps. Season 5, getting back to the future. Season 6, stopping smokey.

But then that plot really didn't go anywhere since we got a crappy origin for Jacob and Smokey and little explanation about what it was all about.

Then the ending focuses on the characters, which hadn't been the main focus of the show since season 3![/QUOTE]

Exactly! It's like the whole mystery of the island didn't matter in the end.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Actually, I believe that was in the Pilot, and it was before Matthew Fox was even cast in the role. By the time the show actually aired I believe they'd settled on him as the main protagonist. I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]

I remember reading that Jack was supposed to be the pilot and played by Michael Keaton who gets killed off. Greg Gunberg? of Heroes was cast as the pilot after Matt Fox was cast as Jack who was switched over to being the doctor and star of the show. Michael Keaton would have taken the role of Jack if it were for just the pilot. He didn't want any part of being on a tv show. ABC were the ones who changed Jack to being the main protagonist of the show after reading the script to the pilot.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2697


MTV: There was also talk that you were the initial choice to play Jack on "Lost." True?

Keaton: Yeah. J.J. [Abrams] called me and he said, "I know you don't want to do a television show but just hear me out." Here's what the idea was: He created this huge setup in the pilot episode with this guy who looks to be the lead or the hero. He has all those earmarks. And then all of a sudden he dies in the middle. I had to go think about it. And what happened was he went to [ABC] and said, "Here's how it works." And they said, "Nah." I think they read it and thought, "No, you've got to keep that guy alive." And then I was out of that.
 
[quote name='dothog']Finally chipping in here. The producers' insistence that this is character driven is a season and a half old. They know that what drives the viewers to the show isn't the characters, but they stuck to it because the character-driven idea was easier to finish off.

Hence, the finale was just an extension of this conceit that it's all about the characters. If you're part of the 30-40% (my rough estimate) of the viewership who agreed with that, then the finale was the balls. You got to see Kate and Jack kiss not once but twice and you got to watch all the alt timeline characters grin stupidly at each other upon "waking up." Plus, you got to see what was effectively a wrap party in the church at the end. So mission accomplished on that score.

If you were part of what I'd estimate to be the majority of viewers who got hooked on the show because weird shit was going down and you have a mind that digs puzzles and/or simply wants to know Why? when weird shit goes down, then the finale was hard to swallow.

What annoyed me a bit was that after all the elaborate, intertwined mythology and character backstory, a device that was introduced not only two or three weeks ago (the golden light) played a huge role in closing out the events on the Island. Not that it's necessary to know exactly what the light and that pool were, but when Des went down and we first saw it and the hieroglyphs and all kinds of cool shit, I thought to myself that it might as well have been tinsel and x-mas lights at this point. That feeling of emptiness, for me, characterized a lot of the final season.[/QUOTE]

This sums it up nicely IMO.
 
[quote name='dothog']
Hence, the finale was just an extension of this conceit that it's all about the characters. If you're part of the 30-40% (my rough estimate) of the viewership who agreed with that, then the finale was the balls. You got to see Kate and Jack kiss not once but twice and you got to watch all the alt timeline characters grin stupidly at each other upon "waking up." Plus, you got to see what was effectively a wrap party in the church at the end. So mission accomplished on that score.

If you were part of what I'd estimate to be the majority of viewers who got hooked on the show because weird shit was going down and you have a mind that digs puzzles and/or simply wants to know Why? when weird shit goes down, then the finale was hard to swallow.
[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's necessarily as black and white as you're painting it. I'm firmly in the latter half of the fanbase in that I've followed the show obsessively, digested every detail, etc etc. And yet I still enjoyed the finale.

I think it probably boils down to this: I realized a while ago that they weren't ever going to really be in answers mode, at least not how I understood it. So I wasn't really expecting anything other than a satisfying conclusion to the story. Was it intellectually satisfying? Of course not. But I'm at least appreciative that they did do well with the direction in which they chose to go. The ending was certainly satisfying emotionally.

I think that's a valid opinion to have without having to transform into a Ben and Jerry's swilling housewife whose only moments of Lost enjoyment come from watching Kate make goo-goo eyes at various hunky guys.
 
Small thing that bothered me about the finale.
How is it in one scene, Ben has a tree fall on him. The next one he's running to the cliff, basically uninjured. I hope there is at least a deleted scene on the DVD that explains that..
 
[quote name='Darkchaos91']Small thing that bothered me about the finale.
How is it in one scene, Ben has a tree fall on him. The next one he's running to the cliff, basically uninjured. I hope there is at least a deleted scene on the DVD that explains that..[/QUOTE]

seemed clear to me that he was trapped by the tree, not crushed by the tree. they just didnt bother showing the 3 get him from the tree. at the point when he said he knew locke had a boat you knew they were going to get him loose. why waste screen time showing hurley, kate and sawyer lifting a log.
 
For those who did or didn't leave purgatory, who's to say that the next level, or whatever Christian was walking to through the doors was actually heaven. Christian was not clear as to what was beyond, and it could be different for each of them. Maybe someone like Ben is afraid to leave purgatory because he will be judged and suffer his ultimate fate which might not be a good one.
 
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