Mass Effect 2 Discussion - Fight for the Lost

[quote name='Ryuukishi']If would be great if Mass Effect 3 could come out, like ... next week.[/QUOTE]I'm in no rush. I think part of what made ME2 so great for me was the 2+ year wait for it that I had once I beat ME1. I want the ME team to be able to toss out as much DLC as they want to keep all of us happy until then, also.

[quote name='Arikado']Man I wish. Whenever ME3 info starts leaking out, I'm going to try my damndest to stay off of the internet and avoid spoilers. I want to go into the finale completely blind if at all possible.[/QUOTE]Same here. I'm definitely not going to be the guy to create the Mass Effect 3 thread and continuously post "breaking news" or trailers into the OP this time around - I'm going to find the nearest rock and hide under it until release day. Going into ME2 without being spoiled was really tough, so I'd imagine the buildup to ME3 is going to cause spoilers to come from every direction as the game comes closer and closer to release.

[quote name='Lord_Kefka']I guess I'm more of the "the glass is half-empty" type then, but I'm not as optimistic anymore. It seems like the free DLC is running out with the announcement of paid costume packs and the upcoming Kasumi DLC. The Dragon Age expansion pack has only 15 to 20 hours of gameplay for $40 - at least from any review or board I've found thus far. As we discussed a few pages ago, the concept of treating DLC like printing money is a sad trend settling into gaming.

I'd really love to see DLC go on sale more often. Maybe after it's been out for a few months.[/QUOTE]My opinion on the whole DLC matter is this:

Mass Effect 1 had a pair of DLC that extended the game maybe 3 hours.
Mass Effect 2 already has DLC that extends the game by 30-45 minutes (Zaeed), new weapons/armor, and they're planning to give us something in the range of ~2 and a half hours in the next couple of weeks with the Firewalker pack and Kasumi. They've basically equaled the entire amount of ME1 DLC (that spanned two years) in less than two months.

The issue is mostly with pricing, but I hope people look more at the content (specifically, the amount of content) as the game moves forward. I don't know how I look at glasses being half empty/full, but I know my thinking is "I'd rather have more content available than I want or need (costume packs) than sit around waiting for something to come out - to no avail (ME1)".

If things start costing 1200 MS points for not-so-great additions to the game, then I think pricing should be the forefront of discussion - I know it would be for me. 160 MS points for a costume pack that maybe 100 people want, and 560 (rumored) MS points for the most badass female character in the ME series? That's nothing to get too excited about. A continuous, steady amount of DLC is better than no DLC, I think.
 
[quote name='Lord_Kefka']I guess I'm more of the "the glass is half-empty" type then, but I'm not as optimistic anymore. It seems like the free DLC is running out with the announcement of paid costume packs and the upcoming Kasumi DLC. The Dragon Age expansion pack has only 15 to 20 hours of gameplay for $40 - at least from any review or board I've found thus far. As we discussed a few pages ago, the concept of treating DLC like printing money is a sad trend settling into gaming.

I'd really love to see DLC go on sale more often. Maybe after it's been out for a few months.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, 15 to 20 hours of gameplay is considered a full game, so $40 is not bad at all. Plus, that thing is going to drop like a rock. If used copies ever come in stock on GS.com, they have is listed for under $30.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']I'm in no rush. I think part of what made ME2 so great for me was the 2+ year wait for it that I had once I beat ME1. I want the ME team to be able to toss out as much DLC as they want to keep all of us happy until then, also.

Same here. I'm definitely not going to be the guy to create the Mass Effect 3 thread and continuously post "breaking news" or trailers into the OP this time around - I'm going to find the nearest rock and hide under it until release day. Going into ME2 without being spoiled was really tough, so I'd imagine the buildup to ME3 is going to cause spoilers to come from every direction as the game comes closer and closer to release.

My opinion on the whole DLC matter is this:

Mass Effect 1 had a pair of DLC that extended the game maybe 3 hours.
Mass Effect 2 already has DLC that extends the game by 30-45 minutes (Zaeed), new weapons/armor, and they're planning to give us something in the range of ~2 and a half hours in the next couple of weeks with the Firewalker pack and Kasumi. They've basically equaled the entire amount of ME1 DLC (that spanned two years) in less than two months.

The issue is mostly with pricing, but I hope people look more at the content (specifically, the amount of content) as the game moves forward. I don't know how I look at glasses being half empty/full, but I know my thinking is "I'd rather have more content available than I want or need (costume packs) than sit around waiting for something to come out - to no avail (ME1)".

If things start costing 1200 MS points for not-so-great additions to the game, then I think pricing should be the forefront of discussion - I know it would be for me. 160 MS points for a costume pack that maybe 100 people want, and 560 (rumored) MS points for the most badass female character in the ME series? That's nothing to get too excited about. A continuous, steady amount of DLC is better than no DLC, I think.[/QUOTE]

The way I see it is that all this DLC that has come out or is about to come out should be free. The game came out in what January? Every thing that comes out for it till May should be free. After May it should be less then five bucks worth of points. About the end of June or July I could see DLC costing more then 5 bucks worth of points. However EA and other companies want to make as much cash as they can so they do the stuff they do.
 
[quote name='yukine']That is a good point, when people are paying $60.00 for a 9 hour game (GOWIII)

$40.00 for 20 hours of gameplay is a steal in comparison.[/QUOTE]
I hope we don't start charging for games by the amount of time it takes to play them... God of War is condensed awesomeness. If you stretch something out for 30 hours doesn't make it better. I would not spend more on Farcry 2 than I would on Half Life 2.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']I hope we don't start charging for games by the amount of time it takes to play them... God of War is condensed awesomeness. If you stretch something out for 30 hours doesn't make it better. I would not spend more on Farcry 2 than I would on Half Life 2.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it certainly is not the only factor. However, it is a factor. Mass Effect 2 at 1/3rd the length would not be as good.

[quote name='sendme']The way I see it is that all this DLC that has come out or is about to come out should be free. The game came out in what January? Every thing that comes out for it till May should be free. After May it should be less then five bucks worth of points. About the end of June or July I could see DLC costing more then 5 bucks worth of points. However EA and other companies want to make as much cash as they can so they do the stuff they do.[/QUOTE]

There's a problem with doing paid/free DLC that way. EA needs to strike while the iron is hot. They need to sell paid DLC while people are still actively playing the game, and before they may decide to trade it in. If they wait 'til June or July, they'd likely lose some potential customers.
 
Yeah, it varies by genres. RPG games need to be longer to have a good plot, give the sense of having a big world to explore, quests to do etc.

For most other genres, 8-10 hours is the sweet spot for me as I tend to get tired of most games around that point. And I can only find time for a couple of longer games a year anyway.
 
Omg she looks like Miranda:drool:
masseffectgirl-590x596.jpg
 
I have a hard time paying for DLC. I guess it's because I'm cheap, a collector, and I've been spoiled by all the free content for PC games over the years.

It does seem like we're not getting a lot from the Cerberus network, or at least I was expecting more. I can see paying for the new character, but I think they should have given us the costume packs. Costume packs are a rather minor addition to the game.

It's too bad they don't offer DLC disks that you could order from bioware's site. Guess I'm going to have to start looking for deals on points.
 
[quote name='BingoBrown']I agree, it certainly is not the only factor. However, it is a factor. Mass Effect 2 at 1/3rd the length would not be as good.



There's a problem with doing paid/free DLC that way. EA needs to strike while the iron is hot. They need to sell paid DLC while people are still actively playing the game, and before they may decide to trade it in. If they wait 'til June or July, they'd likely lose some potential customers.[/QUOTE]

That would be ture however they could give free DLC till then to keep people playing. If someone is going to trade in the game they are going to trade it in. If everything was free till MAY that has come out or will be coming out then how will they lose customers? It would just be more free stuff and then cheap stuff and after that larger DLC that costs 5 bucks or more.
 
The whole Cerberus network concept only exists to fight used game sales. It is a smart tactic.. but the 'free' DLC is more an illusion, in my opinion. I think they would have had much of the content on the disk if they hadn't thought of this.
 
[quote name='sendme']That would be ture however they could give free DLC till then to keep people playing. If someone is going to trade in the game they are going to trade it in. If everything was free till MAY that has come out or will be coming out then how will they lose customers? It would just be more free stuff and then cheap stuff and after that larger DLC that costs 5 bucks or more.[/QUOTE]

The whole point the other poster was making was that people often buy big name titles like Mass Effect 2 on impulse. It gets really hyped, people who might not necessarily even like the genre buy it, and eventually their interest wanes, until one day they see it sitting there, collecting dust. The whole point of rushing paid DLC to the market is catch such consumers while their interest might still be there. I would love to see the sales number on Pinnacle Station. Besides the fact that it wasn't very good, it came way late to the party.

[quote name='BattleChicken']The whole Cerberus network concept only exists to fight used game sales. It is a smart tactic.. but the 'free' DLC is more an illusion, in my opinion. I think they would have had much of the content on the disk if they hadn't thought of this.[/QUOTE]

It's a debate we will never really know the answer to, because the developers aren't going to admit to holding stuff back so they could sell it. It's really part of the much larger DLC debate overall. Would games be bigger if there wasn't DLC? Maybe, maybe not. I don't remember games from the last generation being bigger or having any more content than they do today. A lot of this stuff consists of elements that they start to work on and decide there isn't time for. 10 years ago, it would just end up on the cutting room floor.

The way I looked at it...is the game I have purchased worth what I paid? Now, I'm not debating whether or not games should be $60, but unfortunately, that's what they are. So, is this game worthy of full retail price? Absolutely. If a game feels like it's gimped, and then they suddenly bring out all of this wonderful content, that would be a problem, in my opinion. But all of this stuff...a vehicle, a character, some outfits, whatever...it's extra stuff. Either I buy it, or I don't, but it not being included in the ME2 package certainly didn't ruin any experience for me.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']More Kasumi goodness :cool::



Link?[/QUOTE]

It's up on gamespress so a link won't do many people much good. But here's the PR:

BIOWARE UNVEILS NEW RECRUIT IN MASSIVELY ACCLAIMED MASS EFFECT 2
Guildford, UK – March 22, 2010 – Leading video game developer BioWare™, a division of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ: ERTS), today revealed an all-new playable character to the Mass Effect™ 2 universe, a master thief named Kasumi. Coming this April in North America and Europe, the Kasumi – Stolen Memory PDLC pack will introduce Kasumi Goto, the galaxy’s most enigmatic and cunning master thief. In addition to being able to recruit Kasumi in all new missions, players will be able to utilize her special skills as a member of Commander Shepard’s squad throughout the entire game. The Kasumi – Stolen Memory PDLC pack will be available for the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system at a cost of 560 Microsoft points, and on PC for 560 BioWare points.

“Mass Effect 2 is BioWare’s highest Metacritic game to date, and we are excited to be able to expand that experience by introducing another engaging new character in Kasumi,” said Aaryn Flynn, Studio General Manager of BioWare Edmonton. “Kasumi – Stolen Memory is a testament to our promise to continue to provide fans with new, compelling, high quality post-launch content.”

Cerberus has procured the service of Kasumi Goto, the galaxy’s most enigmatic master thief. In return for her help, Kasumi has asked for Commander Shepard’s help on a dangerous heist to infiltrate the vault of a deadly master criminal named Donovan Hock. Players must gain Kasumi’s loyalty on the planet Bekenstein, where Hock is throwing a party for some of the galaxy’s richest and most deranged criminal minds. The mission: recover data of great importance to Kasumi, and to the galaxy at large. In addition to this new mission, players will also receive a new research upgrade, one new weapon, and a new achievement in this PDLC pack.
Prior to the launch of Kasumi in April, also being released on March 23 through the Cerberus Network is the Firewalker DLC pack, which includes five heart-pounding missions taking place on five uncharted worlds. Players will be able to explore planets and engage in combat in the new Hammerhead hover-tank.
Mass Effect 2 was released to worldwide critical acclaim on January 29, 2010, and is available for the Xbox 360 videogame and entertainment system and the PC and is rated PEGI 18+.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='smoger']It's up on gamespress so a link won't do many people much good. But here's the PR:[/QUOTE]Thanks, I was just making sure it was an official statement, as 560 MS points has been rumored for weeks now.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']The whole Cerberus network concept only exists to fight used game sales. It is a smart tactic.. but the 'free' DLC is more an illusion, in my opinion. I think they would have had much of the content on the disk if they hadn't thought of this.[/QUOTE]

It's debatable. I think there are obviously some things that Bioware intentionally left out of the game, so that the Cerberus network would have more of an effect (such as the Eviscerator, the best shotgun in the game, an easy-to-include item with the retail disc).

But, on the other hand, I see some of this stuff as essentially "Director's Cut" stuff. The Firewalker missions, for example. I don't know this for a fact, but I'd bet Bioware attempted to create the Firewalker missions and include them with the ME2 retail disc. But, because it didn't really fit with the rest of the game, they yanked it, only to later include it as free DLC. Now, maybe it just needed extra polishing, or maybe it just didn't feel right in the game. Regardless, I don't think we would have ever seen the Firewalker missions if not for the Cerberus network and its free DLC.

[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']The whole point the other poster was making was that people often buy big name titles like Mass Effect 2 on impulse. It gets really hyped, people who might not necessarily even like the genre buy it, and eventually their interest wanes, until one day they see it sitting there, collecting dust. The whole point of rushing paid DLC to the market is catch such consumers while their interest might still be there. I would love to see the sales number on Pinnacle Station. Besides the fact that it wasn't very good, it came way late to the party.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that's exactly the point I was trying to make.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']Thanks, I was just making sure it was an official statement, as 560 MS points has been rumored for weeks now.[/QUOTE]

no problem :cool:
 
Regarding the idea that some things were scrapped from the final game in order to make it DLC:

BioWare developers have already come out on their forums and stated that none of the current DLC items (Zaeed, weapons/armor, Hammerhead, Kasumi) were removed from the final game and put up for download. The DLC team (separate from the core ME team) has been working side-by-side with the ME team before the game was 100% finished. The Cerberus Armor, Eviscerator Shotgun, etc. have all been things that the DLC team has designed and implemented. I'm sure ideas for things like the Hammerhead and two additional squadmates originated with the core ME team, but that's the extent of it - the DLC team were the ones who got the ball rolling in terms of design, build, and implementation.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']Regarding the idea that some things were scrapped from the final game in order to make it DLC:

BioWare developers have already come out on their forums and stated that none of the current DLC items (Zaeed, weapons/armor, Hammerhead, Kasumi) were removed from the final game and put up for download. The DLC team (separate from the core ME team) has been working side-by-side with the ME team before the game was 100% finished. The Cerberus Armor, Eviscerator Shotgun, etc. have all been things that the DLC team has designed and implemented. I'm sure ideas for things like the Hammerhead and two additional squadmates originated with the core ME team, but that's the extent of it - the DLC team were the ones who got the ball rolling in terms of design, build, and implementation.[/QUOTE]

I can't really believe that. Wasn't Kasumi originally discovered by people going through the PC's version files, and finding a number of Kasumi resources (including sound clips and some basic images)? Don't think the model was in the game, but you can still find youtube clips from early Feb of Kasumi running the suicide mission.

You can easily debate what exactly this means, but I'd say it makes more sense that she was in the game and taken out (not necessarily for DLC, but perhaps time constraints) than it does that a "separate" DLC team accidentally included DLC resources in the main build.
 
I will admit that I am annoyed they are charging for the new character. They gave us the one for 'free', charging for what I expect will be an hour or two of content - two short missions and some quips from the character on the ship (like Zaeed's) aren't worth $7.

I don't feel cheated for my Mass Effect 2 purchase by any means - it is a fantastic game..! but I think the free DLC is all but done now (once Hammerhead comes out) - I suspect they've run out of what they were forced to cut out of the game to give us 'free' via the Cerberus Network. If there wasn't a lot of content for it, it would have appeared to be the shameless tactic to force new sales that it actually is.
 
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I'll wait til the Kasumi dlc drops in price to 400 points $5 bucks. 7 dollars for 1 hour of gameplay isn't worth it and I already beat the game and put 50 hours into it.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']I can't really believe that. Wasn't Kasumi originally discovered by people going through the PC's version files, and finding a number of Kasumi resources (including sound clips and some basic images)? Don't think the model was in the game, but you can still find youtube clips from early Feb of Kasumi running the suicide mission.

You can easily debate what exactly this means, but I'd say it makes more sense that she was in the game and taken out (not necessarily for DLC, but perhaps time constraints) than it does that a "separate" DLC team accidentally included DLC resources in the main build.[/QUOTE]As I mentioned, the DLC team didn't start after the game was finished - it was somewhere near the end. I suspect that since the core ME team and the DLC team communicated as much as they did, the core team left files in the retail game that would allow the DLC to be incorporated much more easily post-release. They've stated that some forms of her dialog are pre-built into the game's files (again, to make the DLC addition more fluid) but it's nowhere near complete.

Again, I don't know why a few Kasumi files (as well as Liara files, hidden dialog, etc.) exist, but I'm definitely going to take multiple developers (BioWare devs, not EA reps) at their word if they say that DLC items were not left out of the full game.

[quote name='BattleChicken']I will admit that I am annoyed they are charging for the new character. They gave us the one for 'free', charging for what I expect will be an hour or two of content - two short missions and some quips from the character on the ship (like Zaeed's) aren't worth $7.

I don't feel cheated for my Mass Effect 2 purchase by any means - it is a fantastic game..! but I think the free DLC is all but done now (once Hammerhead comes out) - I suspect they've run out of what they were forced to cut out of the game proper to make the Cerberus Network appear to have value.[/QUOTE]There's more free content on the way, according to the PR on Kasumi's pricing.

[quote name='wildcpac']I'll wait til the Kasumi dlc drops in price to 400 points $5 bucks. 7 dollars for 1 hour of gameplay isn't worth it and I already beat the game and put 50 hours into it.[/QUOTE]Drops in price? As in a XBL Deal of the Week discount? If so, I wouldn't hold your breath for that - as it'll probably happen in like 2011.
 
I am hopeful that they will release DLC to allow us to choose the choices from ME1 without importing a ME1 character.

I don't know that I have the patience to play through ME1 JUST to make a series of choices so I can see what difference it makes in ME2. ME1 is a lot of fun to play, but to spend 30-50 hours purely with the intent to make the something like 15 choices that carry over is just not something I'm willing to do.

I would play through ME2 several more times if I could customize the choices from ME1 a lot more easily.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']
There's more free content on the way, according to the PR on Kasumi's pricing.
[/QUOTE]

Where did you see that? Other than the firewalker pack, I didn't see mention of any other free DLC. There was a quote about this being part of their promise to continue to release DLC, but presuming it would be free is as presumptuous as saying it would be PDLC.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']As I mentioned, the DLC team didn't start after the game was finished - it was somewhere near the end. I suspect that since the core ME team and the DLC team communicated as much as they did, the core team left files in the retail game that would allow the DLC to be incorporated much more easily post-release. They've stated that some forms of her dialog are pre-built into the game's files (again, to make the DLC addition more fluid) but it's nowhere near complete.

Again, I don't know why a few Kasumi files (as well as Liara files, hidden dialog, etc.) exist, but I'm definitely going to take multiple developers (BioWare devs, not EA reps) at their word if they say that DLC items were not left out of the full game.[/QUOTE]

If I had to wager a guess, the dialog exists because the DLC was planned far enough in advance that when they had the voice actors in to read the main game's dialog, they had them read the DLC dialog as well. Makes sense, since scheduling to bring in everyone again for additional missions would increase costs and cause potential time issues.

As for why it's in game, that's another question entirely. It's not in there to make DLC integration more fluid. While I don't know Mass Effect's engine specifically, I know patching in sound is usually no more complicated than copying the file/library to a specific place (which the game will use scripts to access).

At the very least though, it shows that this DLC has been in the works since long before the game was finalized. In particular, the dialog between Tali and Archangel during his recruitment mission shows dialog was recorded before the order of missions was completed. While I certainly don't feel gyped by buying the game new, I'm not entirely sure I like devs working on DLC content while the main game is in development. The concept of "Day One Paid DLC" is something that irritates many gamers.

[quote name='BattleChicken'] I would play through ME2 several more times if I could customize the choices from ME1 a lot more easily.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the reasons why I love my PC version. In addition to Save Editor's floating around, there are save databases, and even custom clothing options.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Again, if you have the PC version, you can just get the saves online...[/QUOTE]

Yeah.. I played through the 360 version of ME1, so I opted for ME2 on the xbox.

I got ME1 for $5 on PC around Christmas through steam.. I'm thinking I'll snag ME2 on PC as well when it is on sale. In hindsight, I should have pawned ME2 off to Gamestop for the $57 while I could...
 
[quote name='kylerg']Why is it everytime I use Miranda's powers my Shepard starts strafing in cover?[/QUOTE]


Third time asking is the charm?
 
[quote name='kylerg']Third time asking is the charm?[/QUOTE]It's never happened to me personally (and I've never heard about it), but it seems to me that it's a glitch. Does this happen everytime that you are in cover and you choose to use Miranda's ability? When you use Miranda's ability, are you pulling up the power wheel to select it each time? If so, try mapping the intended power to the D-Pad and using it that way to avoid pulling up the power wheel.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']Firewalker's up, it won't let me download it, though. I keep getting an error code.[/QUOTE]

Same with me. I get to 99% and then it says it can't download.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']It's working fine with me now! I'm dying to play it.[/QUOTE]

Still won't for me.
 
[quote name='Tha Xecutioner']There's a countdown timer on Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age's sites. The countdown ends on the 29th.

Speculation time![/QUOTE]

Official announcement of Dragon Age 2 (which we already know is coming next February) and Mass Effect 3 (or perhaps a Mass Effect expansion like DA: Awakening)?!?!

I gotta think it's a big announcement. They wouldn't do a countdown for a piece of Cerberus Network DLC.
 
I'm going with the Dragon Age 2 announcement. Seems a bit too early to announce a ME expansion when they will want to sway the consumer towards getting excited about DA and run out to buy Awakenings.

Then again, maybe it will end up just being "Alternate Appearance Pack 2" and I will vomit with rage. I really should get a box of feces ready for EA.....
 
Just tried out the first Firewalker mission, which is mostly a tutorial for getting used to the vehicle. It definitely ain't the Mako. I liked the way it controlled, felt pretty smooth. Haven't tried combat in yet though and won't get a chance until later tonight.

Also, remember to talk to Legion after every Firewalker mission if you hit the Omega 4 Relay right after your crew was abducted. Chances are most people didn't get to hear all of his dialog.
 
I liked how the Hammerhead controlled, just hope they have better missions. Imaging a BDTS mission with the Hammerhead... that'd be so nice.

But my surprise thing I LOVE about the hammerhead:
Melee fighting Geth colossus'. It was fun in ME1, but the ability to uppercut and body slam them makes it awesome.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Looking forward to trying out the hammerhead tonight. Will take a break from Assassin's Creed 2 to check it out.[/QUOTE]

Same here. ACII is great, fantastic even, but I've been itching for more ME2, and hopefully the Hammerhead will scratch that itch.
 
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