Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

[quote name='Lord_Kefka']Look Mass Effect, we had some good years. And every story has it's end. It could have ended happily for us, content to ride off into gaming lore sunset, surrounded by little spin-off titles on handheld devices. But you ended things abruptly, hurtfully calling me entitled, and left me confused and alone.

This extended edition ending is our "let's meet for coffee and give our stuff back" months later moment. You tried to give me closure, and in some ways I guess it did. Still, some of your story still doesn't make sense. I don't fully trust it, like it, or know what it all means. But I think I'm at peace with it now.

There's no going back from here. I have to move on, there are plenty of other gaming fish in the sea. I'll always treasure the good years, Mass Effect 2 rates in my top three games ever. Too bad it only serves as a beacon of what could have been.[/QUOTE]

Lol I look back with the nostalgia of my first girlfriend; her name was Mass Effect 1. Sure she was rough around the edges but she was something, really giving you some experience. Then I saw Mass Effect 2, oh man it was love at first sight and things were good, really good. We traveled a lot and saw many sights. After a few years we drifted apart due to life's quirks and then Mass Effect 3 found me. We had a good ride but than out of the blue her husband showed up and I found out she was married!

lol Monday, slow work day;)
 
I absolutely hated the original ending. I kept my expectations in check for the Extended Cut back when it was announced and I'm glad I did, because I was pleasantly surprised by what we got. There was no way in hell BioWare was going to scrap the entire ending and write
the Catalyst
out, but I think they did a decent job of meeting fans somewhere around the middle at a compromise point. There are still problems with the ending, but at least we now get to see
what those last choices actually do, rather than fading to black and telling us to make it all up ourselves.
I found
the control option
much more interesting because of this.

Mass Effect's strongest point has always been its characters and the universe they inhabit. During the Extended Cut, I found it difficult not to get attached again. The
Normandy evac scene during the run to the London conduit doesn't make sense, but the scene is salvaged because of the characters and some stellar voice acting. These last goodbyes are gut-wrenching and make the scene worthwhile despite the problems with it. The new/fixed flashbacks and the touching memorial scene (with some of Sam Hulick's best work in the series) made me put the Catalyst's ridiculous logic in the back of my mind temporarily.

The Extended Cut did a very good thing for me: it put me at peace with the series. The whole original ending disaster seriously left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The speculation, the arguments, game journalism being exposed for the bullshit that it is, the "entitled and whiny" insults, "artistic integrity..." the list goes on and on. The Extended Cut washed those horrible tastes out. I'm actually excited to play my other Shepards and eventually play through the entire series again. I'm even interested in the Leviathan DLC that seems all but confirmed at this point, and there was no way in hell I would have touched it pre-EC.

Thanks for the Extended Cut, BioWare. It's still pretty amazing to me that they even did it... whether you love it or you hate it, it is a huge concession. It bumped the ending up from a 1 out of 10 to a 5 out of 10 for me. Did I want better? Sure... but I can live with what we've got now.

P.S.: Tali is still the best space waifu.
 
busey_clapping.gif
 
Maybe I'm the only one, but I completely dumped any bit of the "games are art" mindset I had because of the original ending controversy. I wasn't nearly as upset as most are over it, but reading all the defense of it as art made me sick. A lot of people defending it came out with a "holier than thou" artsy fartsy "you aren't smart enough to understand" mindset.
 
[quote name='6er']reading all the defense of it as art made me sick. A lot of people defending it came out with a "holier than thou" artsy fartsy "you aren't smart enough to understand" mindset.[/QUOTE]
One of the most disappointing things about this whole episode was the reaction of game magazines and websites, which almost without exception were ultra-defensive of BioWare while attacking fans as entitled, stupid, and out of line. While I think anyone would admit that some fans' reactions were extreme and off base, and there's room for reasonable views on both sides of this dispute or whatever, it was just startling how quickly the "journalists" took BioWare's side and circled the wagons. Just shows you where their bread is buttered.
 
[quote name='6er']Maybe I'm the only one, but I completely dumped any bit of the "games are art" mindset I had because of the original ending controversy. I wasn't nearly as upset as most are over it, but reading all the defense of it as art made me sick. A lot of people defending it came out with a "holier than thou" artsy fartsy "you aren't smart enough to understand" mindset.[/QUOTE]

I wholly believe that games can be art (Ebert can take his opinions and shove it). But what BioWare did? That's not art. That's just pissing all over fans and telling them it's raining.

No one bought that crap.
 
[quote name='Arikado']I absolutely hated the original ending. I kept my expectations in check for the Extended Cut back when it was announced and I'm glad I did, because I was pleasantly surprised by what we got. There was no way in hell BioWare was going to scrap the entire ending and write
the Catalyst
out, but I think they did a decent job of meeting fans somewhere around the middle at a compromise point. There are still problems with the ending, but at least we now get to see
what those last choices actually do, rather than fading to black and telling us to make it all up ourselves.
I found
the control option
much more interesting because of this.

Mass Effect's strongest point has always been its characters and the universe they inhabit. During the Extended Cut, I found it difficult not to get attached again. The
Normandy evac scene during the run to the London conduit doesn't make sense, but the scene is salvaged because of the characters and some stellar voice acting. These last goodbyes are gut-wrenching and make the scene worthwhile despite the problems with it. The new/fixed flashbacks and the touching memorial scene (with some of Sam Hulick's best work in the series) made me put the Catalyst's ridiculous logic in the back of my mind temporarily.

The Extended Cut did a very good thing for me: it put me at peace with the series. The whole original ending disaster seriously left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The speculation, the arguments, game journalism being exposed for the bullshit that it is, the "entitled and whiny" insults, "artistic integrity..." the list goes on and on. The Extended Cut washed those horrible tastes out. I'm actually excited to play my other Shepards and eventually play through the entire series again. I'm even interested in the Leviathan DLC that seems all but confirmed at this point, and there was no way in hell I would have touched it pre-EC.

Thanks for the Extended Cut, BioWare. It's still pretty amazing to me that they even did it... whether you love it or you hate it, it is a huge concession. It bumped the ending up from a 1 out of 10 to a 5 out of 10 for me. Did I want better? Sure... but I can live with what we've got now.

P.S.: Tali is still the best space waifu. [/QUOTE]


Well said and I agree. While I still am not a huge fan of the endings overall, the fact that we got to see what our choice actually did was a huge improvement. The endings went from unbearable to tolerable enough for me to go through the game again.
 
Got an advanced screening of The Amazing Spider-Man, recommend. One thing though is that The Illusive Man is in the movie, lol and has a few good voice over parts.
Me hearing Martin Sheen's voice:
kb88bl.jpg
 
[quote name='6er']Maybe I'm the only one, but I completely dumped any bit of the "games are art" mindset I had because of the original ending controversy. I wasn't nearly as upset as most are over it, but reading all the defense of it as art made me sick. A lot of people defending it came out with a "holier than thou" artsy fartsy "you aren't smart enough to understand" mindset.[/QUOTE]

You're not the only one... I at least thought about it but quickly realized that Bioware had no right to make that claim... That claim went out the window when they released the second game on the PS3 without releasing the first and then chose to make nearly any choice in MEI pointless.

Only two mattered in the end.
killing Wrex and whose your vermire survivor is.

Also if you look at the default choices one is stuck with in the beginning of ME3 if one doesn't important a save you quickly realize how they set it up to make their ending make sense...

You cannot save the Geth and the Quarian from their war. Wrex is dead so you can lie without concern to the Krogan about curing the genophage. They will never figure it out. So it never really a united front against the Reapers and its impossible to see the glaring hole in Bioware's storytelling* because Shepard can never point out that the Geth and Quarians put their differences aside for the benefit of each of their societies to the Catalyst.

* Its not a plot hole, the Catalyst as a rogue AI can think whatever it want too but for the end of the game, a three part trilogy at that, to revolve around what is essentially synthetics killing organics before they can be killed by their own synthetics is outright garbage and not at all what the original games (or even most of ME3) was about. Don't believe me go play vermire again or what videos on youtube were you have the conversation with Sovereign. Sovereign wasn't a galactic janitor in the least. He was Darwin. It was survival of the fittest and the only reason they (the reapers) tolerated any organics was because they needed them for the future of their own races.

Basically, in a nutshell it was a pooch screw in nearly every way imaginable.

Anyhow, this is looking closer and closer to a rant than I want it to be... So I'll just leave it right there. :lol:
 
The complaint about ME1 not being on the PS3 is a very pointless and unnecessary argument because of the sole fact that Microsoft helped BioWare make the first (and published). Why no one can understand this is WAY beyond me.

Your second point is more valid for the sheer fact that Genesis should've had more choices and less crappy art.
 
I liked Genesis. For those on the PS3, I thought that was a good compromise that brought people up to speed. The art was standard dark horse ME comic art and the voice over by Meer (who is this Hale? *snicker*) was pretty good too. I bought it for the 360 just to experience it and enjoyed it.
 
I only just completed the game tonight, I was able to avoid spoilers which was good. So I went back to read the last couple of pages as I was unable to before.

I thought the ending was okay, still a little weak though considering the amount of time i've invested into the games / characters. I'm still trying t to get my head around the number of endings, theres like seven right? Haha.

I didn't like the whole Catalyst / Boy form thing really.. and I am trying to find examples about the originally ending to see how bad it was / the differences etc. Because obviously I didn't get to experience it.
 
[quote name='saunderscowie']I only just completed the game tonight, I was able to avoid spoilers which was good. So I went back to read the last couple of pages as I was unable to before.

I thought the ending was okay, still a little weak though considering the amount of time i've invested into the games / characters. I'm still trying t to get my head around the number of endings, theres like seven right? Haha.

I didn't like the whole Catalyst / Boy form thing really.. and I am trying to find examples about the originally ending to see how bad it was / the differences etc. Because obviously I didn't get to experience it.
[/QUOTE]

if you thought the new endings were just "okay", you would've absolutely hated the original endings...

While technically there were more, there were only three endings. The others are just minor variations of one of those three. Depending on your EMS score, 1) Earth was either completely destroyed or not...2) When the Normandy crash lands on the jungle planet, either no one gets out, only Joker gets out, or Joker and some squadmates get out....3) If your EMS is super high and you picked destroy, there's a short scene of
Shepard taking a gasp of air

As for the endings themselves, they all followed the same procedure. Shepard performs some action to make his choice, Citadel radiates and shoots off a colored beam, something happens to the reapers, the Normandy crashlands and people get out (if they can), and then there's the Stargazer scene. Oh, and once a Relay sends off their beam, they blew up beyond repair.

In "Destroy", the beam/energy was red, and the reapers died. In "control", the beam/energy was blue, and the reapers just flew off. In "Synthesis", the beam was green, Reapers flew off, every human/plant was given a nice green glow, and EDI is guaranteed to leave the Normandy.

There was no one talking, no memorial scene for Shepard, no hint of what happened to the rest of the galaxy at all. Just lots and lots of speculation.
 
[quote name='saunderscowie']
Ha well I can see why people were pissed on then.. no memorial for Shepard?.. are you kidding me?!
[/QUOTE]

It was like a choose your path book with the final chapter missing.
 
So my friend told me that
there is an easter egg if you shoot the Catalyst. As soon as I got home I decided to load up my save and did it.
When I saw what came next, my heart literally sank.
 
They're demoing new MP DLC at SDCC this weekend. I hope its that Earth DLC that was rumored a few weeks ago. The panels should be interesting as well. #GodpleasegivenewDAinfo
 
I'm playing my Renegade Femshep playthrough and I just got done with the
Cure the Genophage mission and man was that rough to watch. I do love Mordin, seeing him crawling across the floor saying not yet reminded me of Gladiator (the first one, not that crappy remake) lol.
 
I'm not going to type out an in depth response but the extended endings did me no good. I do think the Synthesis and Control are fine for people that chose them.

The two applicable endings Destroy and
Refusal
answered questions with the same answers that were implied previously. They managed to botch things even further too e.g.,
Normandy swooping in during the suicide run to the beam and having time for a fucking conversation when reapers are shooting death beams at you. That scene was so intense originally and they lost that intensity. In the original I'm pretty sure a ton of reapers land instead of just one and you have multiple death beams flying all over the place.
Maybe I'm misremembering but in the Destroy ending didn't
the red shockwave destroy everything? That's what I intended to do but now it seems to only destroy synthetics? Also, why is the Normandy no longer damaged when it crash lands?

The only Shepard becoming a legend amongst the stars was great but now apparently the Mass Relays are easily repairable so the legend isn't so unfathomable now is it...and then I logically made my way into the
Refusal ending
which had so much potential and then...I wanted throw the disc out the window.
 
[quote name='dastly75']I'm not going to type out an in depth response but the extended endings did me no good. I do think the Synthesis and Control are fine for people that chose them.

The two applicable endings Destroy and
Refusal
answered questions with the same answers that were implied previously. They managed to botch things even further too e.g.,
Normandy swooping in during the suicide run to the beam and having time for a fucking conversation when reapers are shooting death beams at you. That scene was so intense originally and they lost that intensity. In the original I'm pretty sure a ton of reapers land instead of just one and you have multiple death beams flying all over the place.
Maybe I'm misremembering but in the Destroy ending didn't
the red shockwave destroy everything? That's what I intended to do but now it seems to only destroy synthetics? Also, why is the Normandy no longer damaged when it crash lands?

The only Shepard becoming a legend amongst the stars was great but now apparently the Mass Relays are easily repairable so the legend isn't so unfathomable now is it...and then I logically made my way into the
Refusal ending
which had so much potential and then...I wanted throw the disc out the window.[/QUOTE]

Nope, about the destroy ending,
it had always been destroy all synthetics only
 
[quote name='Spybreak8']I'm playing my Renegade Femshep playthrough and I just got done with the
Cure the Genophage mission and man was that rough to watch. I do love Mordin, seeing him crawling across the floor saying not yet reminded me of Gladiator (the first one, not that crappy remake) lol.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that might be one of my new favorite sequences in the ME trilogy. It's just really moving to see
the tower blow then the genophage cure raining down with that old school ME1 music. People will gripe about ME3 and how your choices didn't matter or whatever, but seeing stuff like that or seeing Tali on Rannoch is really pretty powerful.
 
[quote name='chubbyninja1319']Yeah, that might be one of my new favorite sequences in the ME trilogy. It's just really moving to see
the tower blow then the genophage cure raining down with that old school ME1 music. People will gripe about ME3 and how your choices didn't matter or whatever, but seeing stuff like that or seeing Tali on Rannoch is really pretty powerful.
[/QUOTE]

Ha, speaking of old school ME1 music I was just so humming the Faunts song in the shower this morning. It's going to be a good day! :lol:
 
[quote name='MrPiggles']Nope, about the destroy ending,
it had always been destroy all synthetics only
[/QUOTE]
You're right which means I only like the
Refusal
ending...in theory. Too bad Bioware did not actually put any effort into it.
 
[quote name='dualedge2']The complaint about ME1 not being on the PS3 is a very pointless and unnecessary argument because of the sole fact that Microsoft helped BioWare make the first (and published). Why no one can understand this is WAY beyond me.[/quote]

Pardon me but I understand the situation perfectly... now, and I question if you do. The complaint is valued. One of the major points of the series was your decisions mattered, that they carried forward and changed stuff not just in the current game but the rest of the trilogy... That's really hard to pull of when you don't release one of the games on a platform... and truth be told. it didn't matter what MS said, and, yes, I know that MS said no which was completely within their right and what I would have done too in their shoes but as you just mentioned they had Genesis to work with...

[quote name='dualedge2']Your second point is more valid for the sheer fact that Genesis should've had more choices and less crappy art.[/QUOTE]

5 choices is not enough. Now it didn't need to be everyone in the game, that would be silly but with them only taking the trouble to do five I think its pretty safe to say they mail in their artist integrity for the money that the PS3 brought them.

Anyhow, ready to move on... Hopefully for those still willing to support them day 1 they've learned a lessons from all this... Not for their sakes... but for those willing to give them top notch money.
 
[quote name='chubbyninja1319']Yeah, that might be one of my new favorite sequences in the ME trilogy. It's just really moving to see
the tower blow then the genophage cure raining down with that old school ME1 music. People will gripe about ME3 and how your choices didn't matter or whatever, but seeing stuff like that or seeing Tali on Rannoch is really pretty powerful.
[/QUOTE]I have to agree with that as one of the best sequences of the trilogy. As much as
shooting Mordin to stop him from curing the genophage was about as Renegade as it gets, I couldn't do it to him
. It was a very powerful image to see.

The bit with
Tali on Rannoch is another one that's pretty moving from everything that's come before that point. Same goes for Legion sacrificing himself to upgrade the geth, another powerful moment.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']I have to agree with that as one of the best sequences of the trilogy. As much as
shooting Mordin to stop him from curing the genophage was about as Renegade as it gets, I couldn't do it to him
. It was a very powerful image to see.[/QUOTE]
I did that on my Paragon playthrough. :cold:
From a logical standpoint I was forced to agree with the Salarian councilor that the genophage cure was too dangerous to allow. It broke my heart to betray Mordin and Wrex though. That was probably the best "role playing" moment in the series for me-- I actually agonized over the choice, it didn't just come down to whether I wanted blue points vs. red points. Amazing writing.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']I did that on my Paragon playthrough. :cold:
From a logical standpoint I was forced to agree with the Salarian councilor that the genophage cure was too dangerous to allow. It broke my heart to betray Mordin and Wrex though. That was probably the best "role playing" moment in the series for me-- I actually agonized over the choice, it didn't just come down to whether I wanted blue points vs. red points. Amazing writing.
[/QUOTE]I couldn't do it on either Paragon or Renegade playthrough.
I couldn't shoot Wrex in ME1 for sticking to his ideals on Virmire and I couldn't have done it in ME3 for trying to do right for his people. I couldn't stop Mordin from trying to fix his mistake with the genophage, even though it probably cost the salarian support over the krogan.

If you didn't cure the genophage then you're just continuing the same thought process that may have worked in the past, though now would have just been an impediment to have the krogan work past the old ways and try to better their people. With Wrex leading the way, there was hope for the krogan.

If I had killed Wrex and it was Wreav running the show for the krogan, then I probably would have killed Mordin and stopped the cure, since I couldn't see the krogan doing anything different than before.
 
Even with Wrex in charge, a resurgent krogan is a giant gamble for all the other races. And I always played as a "Humanity First" kind of guy. :)
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Even with Wrex in charge, a resurgent krogan is a giant gamble for all the other races. And I always played as a "Humanity First" kind of guy. :)[/QUOTE]That explains it. Damned xenophobes.
 
Totally. Same reason I sent the rachni queen packing, there's no room for wildcards when humanity's future is at stake. Of course it's a lot easier when it's a big scary-looking bug rather than my main bros
Mordin and Wrex.
:cry:
 
[quote name='INMATEofARKHAM']Pardon me but I understand the situation perfectly... now, and I question if you do. The complaint is valued. One of the major points of the series was your decisions mattered, that they carried forward and changed stuff not just in the current game but the rest of the trilogy... That's really hard to pull of when you don't release one of the games on a platform... and truth be told. it didn't matter what MS said, and, yes, I know that MS said no which was completely within their right and what I would have done too in their shoes but as you just mentioned they had Genesis to work with... [/QUOTE]

Please re-read my post. I just wanted you to understand the fact that releasing ME1 on the PS3 WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how much anyone wished for it. Not with Microsoft's death grip on it (Yes, it would've made for a far greater understanding of the lore/story/decisions/etc., but it just wasn't going to happen).

But they "attempted" to alleviate this problem by releasing Genesis. Which was utter garbage (I have a 360 and I downloaded it hoping it would give me a VERY comprehensive list of choices) because it basically had, as you said, 5 choices. Save/kill the council, relationship, kill/save wrex, kill/save rachni, and save ashley/kaiden. I basically had to go back and replay ME1 all over again, just to get my perfect setup for ME3. Even after all they said, that it would fix the problem of not being able to release ME1 on the PS3. Genesis was wasted potential, just like ME3's ending before/after the Extended Cut. It should've had at least close to 100 decisions. Did you complete all the side missions? Did you save the colony on Feros? What did you do with Shiala? Did you...? The list goes on and on. And every decision should've had you answer it in a Paragon or Renegade way.

So yes, I understood your complaint. But you didn't understand my point. While I disagreed with you about ME1 (It should've happened, but it simply wasn't ever going to) for the PS3, their attempt to "fix" that tiny (haha, more like HUGE) problem was, at best, half-assed. At worst, it was a blatant slap in the face to PS3 players.

THAT was my point.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']I couldn't do it on either Paragon or Renegade playthrough.
I couldn't shoot Wrex in ME1 for sticking to his ideals on Virmire and I couldn't have done it in ME3 for trying to do right for his people. I couldn't stop Mordin from trying to fix his mistake with the genophage, even though it probably cost the salarian support over the krogan.

If you didn't cure the genophage then you're just continuing the same thought process that may have worked in the past, though now would have just been an impediment to have the krogan work past the old ways and try to better their people. With Wrex leading the way, there was hope for the krogan.

If I had killed Wrex and it was Wreav running the show for the krogan, then I probably would have killed Mordin and stopped the cure, since I couldn't see the krogan doing anything different than before.
[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with the Salarian Counselor in either playthrough either. That was the one that I think I agonized over the most.
There was logic there that I couldn't argue with, but I couldn't do that to Wrex even if I thought Mordin would get on board from a pure "shit makes sense" standpoint. I remember the first time Eve was like "Commander, is something bothering you?" or whatever she said in the transport. It reminded me of one of those Twix commercials where I needed a moment. Bioware should have added a dialogue option of "I, uh, um, well you see.... uh... I hear my Mom calling me, gotta go!"
 
[quote name='dualedge2']THAT was my point.[/QUOTE]You're right I missed the point. Sorry for that.

As for Genesis... I think the 5 choices via comic was about right but their should have been an option at the end where you could have at least chosen all paragon/renegade instead of the stuff just not happening... Honestly, clicking check marks on a hundred or so choices wouldn't have been that bad if someone had wanted to do it badly enough. (They should have done a Genesis for ME3 too consider bow horrible the default choices were.)

Krogan Talk
If you cannot bring yourself to kill Wrex on Virmire you can always just have the conversation go badly, just don't chose any of the extremes, and one of your Squad mates will put him down for you... Leaving you guilt free. ;)
 
Since I bought Genesis, I was really expecting a lot of thought and time to have been put into it. It just wasn't.

I mean, I wanted to have helped out Tali, Wrex, and Garrus with their side missions. But when you meet Tali on Freedom's Progress in ME2, it's pretty apparent you'll have to play through all of ME1 again or just skip it.

I also wanted to have kept Shiala alive (I like her and wanted her as a LI in ME3) on Feros.

And I wanted my "perfect" playthrough :cry:

So I had to trudge through the misery of ME1. Just glad I had a save point right before recruiting Liara.
 
[quote name='saunderscowie']
photo-1.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Totally would be funnier with the Turian Councilman. Possibly with air quotes photoshopped in for the hands.

Still funny though.
 
So I'm just returning to ME3 again after a four-month intermission following the birth of my twins. Although I wasn't playing games during that period, I obviously heard about all of the ending controversy. Nevertheless, I've managed to remain largely unspoiled.

My question is this: I'm currently completing the Rannoch missions. Would you advise playing through the original shitty ending, then DLing the EC and playing through that? Or just skip the original ending and just do the EC? I have that option, right?
 
[quote name='Tybee']So I'm just returning to ME3 again after a four-month intermission following the birth of my twins. Although I wasn't playing games during that period, I obviously heard about all of the ending controversy. Nevertheless, I've managed to remain largely unspoiled.

My question is this: I'm currently completing the Rannoch missions. Would you advise playing through the original shitty ending, then DLing the EC and playing through that? Or just skip the original ending and just do the EC? I have that option, right?[/QUOTE]

Congrats on your twins!! I was okay with the original ending, but I recommend going with the EC endings. They're really well done. Then go to YouTube after and look up the original endings. It would be an interesting perspective and one that most around here can't have because we saw the originals from the get go.
 
I agree. See the EC then YouTube the originals. After that give your thoughts on what you think of them. It will be interesting to see what someone thinks of the originals after seeing the EC first.
 
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