Metroid Prime Trilogy - Out of Print (Thanks, Nintendo!)

[quote name='bmulligan']Putting. It's an absolute joke for the golf games that depend on it. I've put hours into WiiGolf and Tiger Woods and tried to be patient, make slow and purposeful movements and it's still a crapshoot that my 12 foot putt goes in the hole instead of across the green 25 yards.[/QUOTE]

It's no crapshoot when many people can sink shots consistently and reliably.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']
Didn't MP3 deliver massive pwnage with It's controls?[/QUOTE]

IMO, yes, it did.

[quote name='mykevermin']If memory serves, about (arbitrary numbers coming up!) 2/3 of the internet community loved MP3's controls, and about 1/3 said they were the worst thing on the face of the fucking planet. So, extrapolating those numbers into the real world, everybody but about 30 lonely bitches loved the controls for the game.
[/QUOTE]

This is about what I remember too. Though there is a third category who maybe didn't care about the controls and who normally like FPS type games but wouldn't play it because it wasn't HD/multiplayer (like Cheapy, perhaps? ;)).
 
[quote name='snipegod']It's no crapshoot when many people can sink shots consistently and reliably.[/QUOTE]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be insulting or personal in my next paragraph. My angst isn't directed towards you specifically, it's simply that my frustration with the Wii controls and the difference between my assumptions of their capabilities and their actual performance after I purchased it have brought me to this state of perturbedness.

Your statement that includes "consistently and reliably" is compelling me to this response: You're are delusioned.

Maybe "unplayable" was a zealous overstatement, or purposefully hyperbolic to demonstrate my frustration, but there's no way you or anyone else can reliably sink puts with the WiiMote. Maybe I have a defective Wii, or a bum WiiMote, because that can be the only alternative. And because there's an entire faction of people who are just as frustrated as I am, I'm inclined to believe in the delusional theory. If the Wii were capable of such fine control, aside from lightsabering, there wouldn't be much of a need for Motion Plus to begin with.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Maybe "unplayable" was a zealous overstatement, or purposefully hyperbolic to demonstrate my frustration, but there's no way you or anyone else can reliably sink puts with the WiiMote. Maybe I have a defective Wii, or a bum WiiMote, because that can be the only alternative. And because there's an entire faction of people who are just as frustrated as I am, I'm inclined to believe in the delusional theory. If the Wii were capable of such fine control, aside from lightsabering, there wouldn't be much of a need for Motion Plus to begin with.[/QUOTE]


And that's just exactly it. There are just some games that the current technology inside the Wiimote can not handle. It works great for anything that requires large motions. This is why bowling, baseball, etc. works so well. Anything that requires small precise hand movements just fails to translate (aside from the pointer) hence the serious issues with putting.

But it would be hard to argue without WiiMotion+ that anyone can reliably and consistently perform said putting movements; its just not possible. At least not with the current technology. It would have been simply better for them to revert to the old standard of "hold button down for power" until the technology proved adequate enough to produce a consistency in the controls.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'] If the Wii were capable of such fine control, aside from lightsabering, there wouldn't be much of a need for Motion Plus to begin with.[/quote]
I don't think anyone's taking this discussion as unfriendly, and I believe all your points are valid based on plenty of other similar experiences. But for every disappointing experience like yours, it feels like I see/hear/read of four accounts that are pleased (primarily outside "gaming" communities like CAG).

I don't doubt that putting is frustrating for you because I have a friend who is constantly frustrated with Wii Sports Golf and Tiger Woods in the same way you describe. I also don't doubt that snipegod can putt consistently, because I can without issue as well and after practice my 60+ year-old father was able to also.

I pulled out your quote from above because I really do believe that the Wii is cabale of such fine control - to an extent. And though that extent is more limited than Motion Plus, I also believe that 1:1 will not add anything because 95% of Wii games with motion controls have not fully realized the capabilities of the existing control method.

In "Return of the GameCube game news", if I get a chance tonight or tomorrow I will play the ported Jungle Beat and Pikmin and post my impressions.
 
[quote name='wii skiier']

I pulled out your quote from above because I really do believe that the Wii is cabale of such fine control - to an extent. And though that extent is more limited than Motion Plus, I also believe that 1:1 will not add anything because 95% of Wii games with motion controls have not fully realized the capabilities of the existing control method.
[/QUOTE]

That right there makes me disappointed in the Wii. It's been OVER 2 years now and we only have a slight handful of games that really use the controls exceptionally well.

ATTENTION PEOPLE WHO GET OFFENDED BY Wii STUFF: I SAID HANDFUL OF GAMES THAT CONTROL EXCEPTIONALLY WELL--NOT "GOOD GAMES IN GENERAL"
 
[quote name='lilboo']That right there makes me disappointed in the Wii. It's been OVER 2 years now and we only have a slight handful of games that really use the controls exceptionally well.
[/quote]
Yeah, it stinks. But there are also some very good games that don't use motion controls at all, which I really appreciate. Last night after a marathon of Wii Sports, Boom Blox and Rock Band 2 I was exhausted and ready to plop on my ass. De Blob was waiting for me and I was happy to have the limited motion controls. My fear when I first got the Wii was that every game would try to have motion controls. I'm prefectly happy with something like Fire Emblem alongside MP3 because there's really no reason that the sideways remote or remote/nunchuk combo can't function as a traditional controller for certain games.
 
I don't doubt that golf games that try to use motion control for putting don't work well. I haven't actually played any of them (not even the one in WiiSports yet), but I can imagine that it wouldn't work well. However, that doesn't cancel out all the games that do work well with the Wii's existing controls. So, yeah, if you're primary purpose for getting a Wii is to have a motion-controlled golf game, you are going to be majorly disappointed. Perhaps this will be alleviated by MotionPlus, but we shall see.

For me, golf games aren't high on my list, so this hasn't been a big deal to me. Plus if it bothered me I'd just play a Gamecube golf game or one on the PS2 or something else and play other stuff on the Wii. Hopefully some developer, perhaps Nintendo, will be smart enough to not even attempt to provide motion control for putting, at least not in a swing the club fashion. There may be other ways to do it with motion that would work better. Developers have to work with what's actually possible and not try to force the issue... and/or wait for MotionPlus, but once that's here, if it can't do it either, come up with a control scheme that does work well and don't pretend like it can do what it can't.
 
It would be funny to see DKJB be compatible with GH/RB drums. Of course that would never happen.

And with regards to motion controls: waggle because it's there is bad (see: most shovelware/PS2 ports). Waggle as a supplement (see: Galaxy) can be done very well. Waggle for pointing (see: MP3, RE4, Trauma Center) can pwn if done well and is appropriate for the game.

But I have to say that the remote/nunchuk do not substitute a "true" controller for certain games: namely, Brawl and Mario Kart.
 
[quote name='Lone_Prodigy']
But I have to say that the remote/nunchuk do not substitute a "true" controller for certain games: namely, Brawl and Mario Kart.[/quote]
I would have to disagree here as well, although what makes a "true" controller could lead to endless arguments over semantics. In the sense that you have a direction-sensitive controller and several action buttons available (none of which require IR or motion sensing) it works as a traditional controller for me. I have played Brawl and Mario Kart with that setup and didn't notice anything lacking, and lately have been playing Tatsunoko vs Capcom with that setup. There are fewer buttons than some recent controllers and the comfort level may vary, but that can be said of any controller (I ranted against the GC controller for comfort and layout reasons earlier in this thread).
 
[quote name='Lone_Prodigy']But I have to say that the remote/nunchuk do not substitute a "true" controller for certain games: namely, Brawl and Mario Kart.[/QUOTE]

I've never played Brawl and in fact I've never played Mario Kart with Remote & Nunchuck (only wheel, which I find fun, tough I'm sure it's not the best control, I do find that it works well). However, my kids and my nephews (older) all swear by the remote and nunchuck over a Gamecube controller for Mario Kart Wii and my older nephew is damn good at the game.
 
I play Wii Sports Golf at least once a week and its fine for me. I sink some hardcore distance shots, the main struggle is getting within putting range with the last shot being the birdie shot.

I can largely take shots without practice swings, especially the max distance shots.
 
My buddy and I play Wii a few times a week, and we almost always start or finish with a game of Wii Sports Golf. Just as with DMK, on most tee-off shots I take no practice swing and rarely fudge up the power. That's not that hard ... if I were to say I take most of my putter shots without a practice swing, then we, Bmulligan, would really be in a downright fight. But there's more than enough room for common ground in our arguments.

Putting IS difficult. The plateau for the highest power shot is not a slow slope ... the precise level of acceleration that the game wants for the difference between a 2 power shot (using the 4 sections of the power bar) and a 4 power shot are not that far apart. It's easy to practice a certain power a couple of times and then put just a tad too much arm strength into the Wiimote and then you end up with much more power than you wanted in-game. And the opposite is also true.

So, it's not that the putting is instantly perfect or that the control input could not be advanced technologically in the future by, perhaps, Motion+, or even that many players are frustrated (but then, so are all those reviewers who write shit because they can't, don't, or won't understand how to properly control a Wii game) ... but that plenty have taken the time to understand the minute differences of the control and been able to produce consistent, reliable, and accurate shots on or off the green.

I think Wii Sports Golf is the best golf game on the Wii to date. And I don't think it's a hassle to play or to learn to play, but obviously we disagree there.
 
I actually get strangely good results putting when I ignore the meter and just look at the pole and just shoot it like I were actually shooting it for reals. A lot of times practicing messes me up because I'm too focused on replicating the power I put into the practice shots.
 
The people who hated MP3's controls didn't customize their controls I believe it was set it to Advanced or whatever it's called) and/or tried to play with their arms hanging in the air, which is just the wrong way to play any Wii game besides a specific handful.
 
[quote name='Lone_Prodigy']
But I have to say that the remote/nunchuk do not substitute a "true" controller for certain games: namely, Brawl and Mario Kart.[/quote]

What?

You can map every move you need in Brawl to the buttons on the Wiimote and nunchuck. You can also map pretty much any move to any button so it would be pretty hard for someone to find a button scheme on the Wiimote and nunchuck they can't work with.

And using the Wiimote and nunchuck in Mario Kart Wii is superioir to using a Classic Controller or Gamecube controller since you don't have to take your finger off the analog stick to use wheelie or to do tricks.
 
All I can say is that motion controls, like it or not, is the future of gaming and honestly, I really do like where the Wii is going. It is primitive, but it is taking the first step in evolving gaming through input rather than through output. I think in due time, motion controls will become perfected and it'll become the new gold standard.
 
To get this thread sort of back on track (not that I am not enjoying the other discussions going on), I played through the first three or four levels of the Wii version of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat last night (I stopped and saved after the part where you punch the giant monkey a lot).

I should reiterate that not only had I never played this game before, I had never even seen it played. This means that some of what I say will be describing what many of you have already seen, and I really can't say what was changed aside from the obvious control method.

From the opening screen, the game really shines graphically. I don't know if this has anything to do with the 480p boost, but I was immediately reminded of the first time I saw Donkey Kong Country and how crisp everything was. The game opens with a fake "level" that you have to traverse to get to the menu. This works really well because it forces you to learn the controls before you start playing. If you can't read the instructions posted on various signs, there are also little monkeys that follow you around and wave Wii remotes to show you where to swing the remote. They do this constantly, so if you stand still in just the right place it looks like they are smacking you in the ass. This is especially satisfying if you are clapping at the angry oily pig while they smack your gorilla buttocks.

The controls are very straightforward. Movement is mapped to the nunchuk stick, A jumps, Z (or B, I can't remember now) hard drops to break stuff, and a quick whack of the Wii remote claps. You can aim the impact of the clap with the control stick very easily. There are quite a few times where you alternately beat the nunchuk and remote. So far this has come up when it's time to repeatedly punch a giant deformed brightly colored animal of some kind, grab bonus bananas at the end of a round, or get in extra punches on the giant monkey (I know - primate).

I had mentioned Donkey Kong Country earlier. Playing through the opening levels I felt the gameplay was much more like New Super Mario Bros than DKC. This was a good thing for me because I prefer the more restrictive feel of that kind of platformer. Aside from the odd floating animals, the only thing that really stood out was the fun of clapping. It's a very satisfying feeling to whack the remote, and the game world has a nice variety of objects to interact with by clapping (just like in the real jungle where you can clap to make mushrooms become engorged to 10 times their normal size).

The other reason the "whack" control scheme was satisfying was the sound from the remote. I usually turn off the remote sounds (it used to be because I didn't want to buy new batteries, now it's because I don't want to charge the batteries... because I am a cheap AND lazy bastard) in games after seeing what they are. Yeah, the sound is still crackling and tinny, but it's immediately gratifying in providing additional feedback for the motion you just performed with a little drum sound. When it is appropriate to use the nunchuk for whacking as well, it gets another little sound out of the remote.

I enjoyed the experience for the most part, and the only real disappointment for me was how generic some of the banana collecting felt but I suppose that is a pretty standard convention for this kind of game. It looks great, and I had no issues or control confusion picking up and playing immediately. For someone who never played on GC I'd say it's definitely worth a shot. For those of you who loved the game on GC it's a tough call. From the level design I saw, I can see how someone charmed by the unique control scheme on GC would be disappointed by this version. It feels very much like a 16-bit platformer. Many of us want this, but if you already have an attachment to the other version of the game the two things might be hard to separate.

I'm going to try Pikmin tonight if I get a chance...
 
Thanks for your review, wii skier. While I enjoyed the Wii Folder videos from earlier in the thread, that dude spend WAY too much time going over the basics. "I get it, just play the friggin' level already!"
 
To each their own. I played Brawl with remote/nunchuk at my cousin's house and was absolutely terrible. Mapping jump to C or pad-down just doesn't do it for me. With Mario Kart the controls are limited so it's not as hard, but driving with the wheel often has me drifting in the wrong direction. I'll chalk it up to inexperience, but I still prefer the GC controller for those games.

I've said it before, but the fewer buttons on the Wiimote/nunchuk combo does make me wary of MP3. I finished MP1 recently and found the GC controls to be seamless.
 
I'm excited for both primes and pikmin games. I actually own all but the first pikmin game, and I fully intend to repurchase them all. Here are some thoughts...

Metroid Prime had connection bonuses with Metroid Fusion, you could use the fusion suit and unlock the original Metroid. Will these return?

Metroid Prime 2, will the multiplayer return? Will it be improved? Will it be online? Will you be able to be someone other than Samus?

Pikmin, will they remove the limit on the amount of days that you must win in, like they did when they moved to Pikmin 2?
 
[quote name='JoeyBoots']Metroid Prime had connection bonuses with Metroid Fusion, you could use the fusion suit and unlock the original Metroid. Will these return?[/quote]
For your answer, I refer you to a part of Jeremy Parish's Animal Crossing: Wild World 1up review:
533.gif


Metroid Prime 2, will the multiplayer return? Will it be improved? Will it be online? Will you be able to be someone other than Samus?
Click to expand...
Probable. Possible. Improbable. Who knows?

Pikmin, will they remove the limit on the amount of days that you must win in, like they did when they moved to Pikmin 2?
Click to expand...
No. Instead, they allow you to go back and redo any day that you may have messed up on. The WiiFolder video goes into great detail about this game.
 
OK, I've spent some time with Mario Power Tennis now. It's going to sell a zillion copies.

Once again, I never played the original so I had no expectations going in. Out of Top Spin 3, Wii Sports Tennis and Sega Superstars Tennis it is by far the best tennis game I have played on the Wii. Control is with the nunchuk stick and you swing with the remote. That's about it. The game is sensitive to forehand and backhand swings and to some extent power.

The pace is just right - I found Sega Superstars to be a little too fast at times and requiring way too much crazy arm swinging. My favorite thing about Mario Tennis so far is how laid-back it is. It's not trying too hard like Mario Strikers and even though it uses cartoony characters it's not immediately ridiculous the way Sega Superstars was. The graphics are sharp and very smooth, and of course it has 16:9 support. Really not that much else to say about this one. It's tennis, it's good for a tennis game.
 
I'm going to guess that beating the game once in Metroid Prime on Wii gets you the Fusion Suit skin. But that's entirely a guess.
 
[quote name='wii skiier']Tiger Woods 2009 is good. Really good. It's not perfect yet, but definitely the best of them all by far. I don't think Motion Plus will really change things that much, and would probably make a golf game nearly impossible to play. As it is, the game only needs to measure speed/power. With Motion Plus, you would need to also then have a straight swing. This would be fine, except you are swinging a semi-physical object in real space at a virtual object in digital space. I don't know, it just seems like a pain to me.

This may have been mentioned many times over, but I just saw the first two titles on Gamestop's site for 3/9 release at $29.99. The cover art is not growing on me still.

230396b.jpg

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=73028

230397b.jpg

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=73029[/quote]

MP Tennis would be a nice buy at $20 :hot:
 
Do we know if Pikmin is 16:9? That alone would make me pick it up instead of trying to find a cheap used NGC copy (if there is such a thing.)
 
[quote name='crunchewy']Do we know if Pikmin is 16:9? That alone would make me pick it up instead of trying to find a cheap used NGC copy (if there is such a thing.)[/quote]
The Japanese version is (along with Donkey Kong and Mario Tennis), so I am assuming the US version will be.
 
I would think about buying those games if they are 20. If they are anything above that I don't see many selling.
 
[quote name='HuppSav']I would think about buying those games if they are 20. If they are anything above that I don't see many selling.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure MSRP is $29.99 across the board, so a true cheapass should be able to find them for $20 easily.
 
I picked up Pikmin today and I'm enjoying it so far (I've never played the Gamecube version). The only thing I don't really like is the time limit and how quickly days seem to go by. The new Wii controls seem to work really well.

I've heard some negative impressions of Mario Tennis so I think I'll wait on that one for awhile.
 
You only need to get 1 ship part per day to get them all. I spent some days not getting any, but setting myself up to get 2 or 3 the following day. I completed it in 27 days with every ship part without reloading. I could have done it in 24, but I wasted several days on the final level dicking around. I could have easily reloaded and done it on the 24th day but I didn't think it mattered.
 
I would buy these if I didn't already have them for the GC. The reversable box art is a nice touch but I get the feeling that these GC releases will further delay any Wii Players Choice lineup.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']I picked up Pikmin today and I'm enjoying it so far (I've never played the Gamecube version). The only thing I don't really like is the time limit and how quickly days seem to go by. The new Wii controls seem to work really well.

I've heard some negative impressions of Mario Tennis so I think I'll wait on that one for awhile.[/QUOTE]

Can you confirm if it's in 16:9?

Yeah people didn't like the time limit the on the GCN either, so they took it out for Pikmin 2, IIRC. It's been quite some time since I played them. I think I preferred the first though because it was more focused with the timer always pushing you along. I don't remember finishing #2.

What would be ideal is to have both, a time specific adventure like the original Pikmin, and then a Free Play/Roam mode where you can do whatever you want.
 
I can't imagine Mario Tennis being good at all, but I am def gonna get Pikmin eventually. $30 is kinda dumb.


Donkey Kong Jungle Beat is up next..and in May..right?
 
[quote name='lilboo']I can't imagine Mario Tennis being good at all, but I am def gonna get Pikmin eventually. $30 is kinda dumb.


Donkey Kong Jungle Beat is up next..and in May..right?[/quote]
Why couldn't you "imagine it being good at all"? From everything I have heard it was a very good game on GC and it seems good to me. The first two control schemes work really well (I haven't tried the others yet), it looks great and it's fun. It's tennis - there's not a whole lot of depth, but what would you expect? If you don't like tennis, you probably won't like it. It's better than Wii Sports tennis, Top Spin or Sega Superstars.

I tried Pikmin and despite the charm am having the same problem I did with the GC version (it's one of the two GC games I have played). It's way too stressful.
 
Picked up Pikmin and Mario Tennis last week at TRU.

Pikmin overall is a better game, although I preferred having the c-stick control with the GameCube as it was much more precise.

I'm debating opening Mario Tennis, I'm not sure if I want to keep or play...
 
Picked up Pikmin and Mario Tennis last week at TRU.

Pikmin overall is a better game, although I preferred having the c-stick control with the GameCube as it was much more precise. The ability to start from any day is a very nice feature, but provided this was my 5th or 6th play through I didn't personally need it.

I'm debating opening Mario Tennis, I'm not sure if I want to keep or play...
 
I picked up jungle beat gamecube which came with 2 bongo controllers for 10 bucks. Then I bought 2 to cool ps3 games and it was all for the same price as buying the stupid wii edition of jungle beat.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Anyone pick up Donkey Kong Jungle Beat yet?[/QUOTE]

I rented it recently from Gamefly. I only played the first two or three levels, though. From what I played, I decided to buy the game. Since I didn't have the instruction manual, there were some moves that I was not able to pull off. I never played the original GameCube version, so I can't compare the two.
 
I finally started Pikmin last night(courtesy of the TRU deal a couple weeks ago).

I haven't played the original since, probably '01. Graphically, it holds up okay, but gameplay-wise, it's still fun as ever. I enjoyed 1 over 2, so it's nice revisiting it. it would be amazing to see a future sequel in HD(think Flower with insects). I guess we are at least a few years out from seeing that happen though.

I sold my original Pikmin ages ago, so this wasn't really an upgrade for me, more of a re-addition to the collection situation. I have to say the Wii controls are pretty much a lateral move, IMO. If you already own the original, I have to say, there is zero reason to pick this up. The controls are good, just not significantly better than the Wavebird. Just... different.
 
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