Microsoft 2010 E3 - Worst Ever!!!

[quote name='crunchewy']Disclaimer: I didn't see the press conference, I've only seen pictures of the new 360 and Kinect.

Regarding recognizing their audience. They have, and it's largely tapped out. That's the reason for Kinect. Bringing it to market has to have benn (still is) a massive undertaking. At the same time I think they know that their core audience isn't going anywhere. You all complain about this being the worst ever, but are you going to sell your 360s? I doubt it. So what Microsoft primarily had to do was show Kinect and they've done that. It also doesn't hurt to show a new 360 that promises, at least, to rid them of reliability issues and noise.

Except for that not naming the price of Kinect bit. Ouch.[/QUOTE]

Why would we sell our 360s after a press conference? Because we didn't like what they showed? How would that hurt MS in any way? Doesn't make sense.

However, if we don't like the product and don't buy it, then yes, this conference was a disaster. They spent the majority of time to showcase a product that is now getting very mixed reviews. Personally, I was excited. Now? Not so much. Especially at $149.99. No thanks. I'll use my controller like a normal person and enjoy games like Gears of War and Call of Duty without looking like a total jackass.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']149.99 gives you at least one game... its a bundle of some sorts... I would hope they'd give you The Kinectic sports and at least two more...damn. Plus the Kinectic games should cost about 30 dollars each. I can't see them charging 60 for that stuff...[/QUOTE]

I'm just going by the article you posted earlier:

"GameStop prices a Kinect Arcade Bundle at $299.99 USD and a Kinect Elite Bundle at $399.99 USD. GameStop also puts a $59.99 USD price on two games, Kinect Adventures! and Kinect Sports."
 
[quote name='pck21']so they priced themselves out of the market already.

Arcade ($149.99) + kinect ($149.99) + 1 kinect game ($59.99) = $359.97 before taxes.

Or

kinect arcade bundle ($299.99) + 1 kinect game ($59.99) = $359.98 before taxes.

Nintendo wii w/ 2 games ($199.99) = $199.99 before taxes.

I'm not going to include the elite kinect bundles because that's just unfair.[/quote]

hahahahahaaha oh wow
 
Well, I think the Kinect games look okay, but the way you can move around in the menus sells it for me really. I would be willing to pony up like 100 bucks for it, but 150 seems to be a bit too much for me.
 
I don't blame either MS or Sony for going after it, bottom line the casual market is a lot of damn money. Hell, in the future, there will be a point in the market where no-one needs to cater to "the hardcore" in any fashion exclusively and they will still make a killing off of their products (see movie industry for ex). Both of those companies see that so even if the product fails today, the technology and R&D they got from it will benefit them tomorrow.

If they don't go forward in appealing to them, they could in the long run be phased out of the market altogether, both Nintendo and Apple are serious competitors and both Sony and MS realize that. They, (N + A) along with other partners, have made a killing. Especially Nintendo and they did the smartest move of them all, ignore the loud, ignorant, hardcore gamers they don't even comprise of 1% of the market.

Let me clarify that though, they appeal to their Nintendo "core" (much like Apple does to their own "core" audience) but people like on this forum...are meaningless to their long term profitability. Its such a small niche. So needless to say, I don't believe Microsoft gives a flying fuck, you guys are going to buy their shit anyway. :D

They are attempting to get others to jump on, that's what makes them smart. E3 from a gamer perspective for them sucked hardcore. From a stockholder perspective, I say they have nailed it to the teeth. I'm hoping as technology continues to refine/define motion gaming, we'll see a smorgasbord of products that will appeal to a broad demographic.
 
[quote name='Pck21']Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]

For four people to play (assuming Kinect can handle 4 players) the Wii could cost more (an extra $30 x 3 for waggle-motes) than you are presenting.

In addition the 360 does HD graphics, has more hard drive space, and I believe has more online features now that ESPN and video chat are there.

I mean technically the prices you put are right, but it's also technically not the 1:1 comparison like you are presenting.
 
Ehh, it definitely had its trainwrecks (seriously, Kinectimals?? What the fuck was that?), and some of the other games looked okay, but I'll be interested to see how it does specifically. I do think, however, that Microsoft just handed Nintendo the ball, so let's see if Nintendo drops the ball or runs with it.

BJ
 
[quote name='Pck21']Watching G4 right now, they brought up some great points:



2.) You still have to have an Xbox 360 to use the Kinect (What I've been saying all along).
[/QUOTE]

Did anyone think you wouldn't need a 360? Why would anyone think that?
 
[quote name='pjb16']For four people to play (assuming Kinect can handle 4 players) the Wii could cost more (an extra $30 x 3 for waggle-motes) than you are presenting.[/QUOTE]

That's actually a good point. Assuming Kinect handles four players playing simultaneously, and we've seen some demo videos suggesting as much, then the price point is a little more manageable.

However, it also begs the question as to how much money Microsoft can make off the Kinect. There aren't any accessories to speak of, just the Kinect itself. I'm sure Nintendo makes a mint off their Wii accessories. Heck, WiiPlay (the crappy Wiimote demo packaged with a Wiimote) is the #1 selling game of the current gen. That's a lot of added revenue.
 
[quote name='M-PG71C']I don't blame either MS or Sony for going after it, bottom line the casual market is a lot of damn money. Hell, in the future, there will be a point in the market where no-one needs to cater to "the hardcore" in any fashion exclusively and they will still make a killing off of their products (see movie industry for ex). Both of those companies see that so even if the product fails today, the technology and R&D they got from it will benefit them tomorrow.

If they don't go forward in appealing to them, they could in the long run be phased out of the market altogether, both Nintendo and Apple are serious competitors and both Sony and MS realize that. They, (N + A) along with other partners, have made a killing. Especially Nintendo and they did the smartest move of them all, ignore the loud, ignorant, hardcore gamers they don't even comprise of 1% of the market.

Let me clarify that though, they appeal to their Nintendo "core" (much like Apple does to their own "core" audience) but people like on this forum...are meaningless to their long term profitability. Its such a small niche. So needless to say, I don't believe Microsoft gives a flying fuck, you guys are going to buy their shit anyway. :D

They are attempting to get others to jump on, that's what makes them smart. E3 from a gamer perspective for them sucked hardcore. From a stockholder perspective, I say they have nailed it to the teeth. I'm hoping as technology continues to refine/define motion gaming, we'll see a smorgasbord of products that will appeal to a broad demographic.[/QUOTE]


I hope you're wrong, but of course, it is all about making profit. 10 years ago, I was in strategy gaming heaven. Tons of TBS and RTS games. Now, only a handful at best. It is all FPS because that is where the money is at.


It will be sad to see the gaming industry totally betray the hardcore gamer. Consoles destroyed hardcore PC gaming, and now Nintendo's success could be the end of the mature gamer.
 
@ King Killer

I say that because I have two unique positions: One as a stockholder whose retirement all relies on healthcare and gaming industry (oh lol!) :O That and as a gamer, a hardcore gamer. Granted, a broke one and guess which console I picked this generation?

The Wii, the only ones who don't see or play their hardcore games are the ones who claim the system doesn't have any. It sure does, and this is coming from someone who trashed Nintendo for years on end during the GameCube era. :D

I think Nintendo has some lessons to learn from the Wii (Qualty Control and marketing two unique audiences in one shot) but they are getting there quickly. That can be see clearly and I think both MS and Sony would certainly benefit from taking a page out of Nintendo's playbook and running with it, which they are.

Hardcore gaming is never going to go away, its just coming to the point now where the industry does not need them exclusively, at all. That's a good thing though, that's showing the industry is finally maturing and hopefully the audience with it. I guess I'm trying to say gaming is no longer exclusive to the hardcore, both software and sales wise. I see it as a very positive thing.

EDIT: Although for the record, I did buy a PS3 later on and I do get to play a good bit of 360 via my younger brother, but I digress. :D
 
The Wii's success was pure luck. Nintendo had no idea they were going to be so successful and that is why you couldn't find a wii on shelves for 2 years.

Microsoft and Sony trying to duplicate the Wii experience with slightly different games is going to be fruitless. Playing catch-up is going to hurt everyone(except Nintendo) in the end. I truly with Kinect/Move would have been shown with NOTHING resembling Wii sports, but it looks like copying that game is what these companies are trying to do.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']The Wii's success was pure luck. Nintendo had no idea they were going to be so successful and that is why you couldn't find a wii on shelves for 2 years.

Microsoft and Sony trying to duplicate the Wii experience with slightly different games is going to be fruitless. Playing catch-up is going to hurt everyone(except Nintendo) in the end. I truly with Kinect/Move would have been shown with NOTHING resembling Wii sports, but it looks like copying that game is what these companies are trying to do.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it will be fruitless... Sony and MS' goals aren't to outsell the Wii... its to get a piece of the pie. If there is a market for product X.. then you only really lose when you allow once company to have product X sales and money exclusively. Imagine how of MORE of a success the DS would be if all PSP sales were added to the DS overall sales. As long as you're getting a piece of the pie, then baring some fruit.
 
Thomas96, I agree in theory, but I still don't see what these new products bring to the table, other than a much higher cost of entry. I think the "wii market" has already bought their systems and this "competition" is a year late and at least $100 overpriced.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']I don't think it will be fruitless... Sony and MS' goals aren't to outsell the Wii... its to get a piece of the pie. If there is a market for product X.. then you only really lose when you allow once company to have product X sales and money exclusively. Imagine how of MORE of a success the DS would be if all PSP sales were added to the DS overall sales. As long as you're getting a piece of the pie, then baring some fruit.[/QUOTE]

I think he is saying that everyone thought it looked cool, but now that alot of people have used the Wii and played "those games", no one wants those games. They saw just how boring the proved to be. I own a Wii, and have since the day it released, and never use it. I've played Wii Sports 10 times max. I bought Wii Fit they day it came out, and haven't played it since. If I had a chance to do it again, I wouldn't of purchased either. Now when similar games come out for PS3 and 360, I know better than to waste money.
 
I was pretty disappointed overall. I did like demos of Gears of War 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops, and I like hardware of Kinect but games are lacking..:roll:
 
If MS picks up the casual audience (20 somethings that own only a Wii, Soccer Moms, The Wii Audience, Kids) it will be the biggest year for them. You are confusing your interests as a core gamer to Microsoft's as a business
 
[quote name='reddjoey']If MS picks up the casual audience (20 somethings that own only a Wii, Soccer Moms, The Wii Audience, Kids) it will be the biggest year for them. You are confusing your interests as a core gamer to Microsoft's as a business[/QUOTE]

the casual audience isn't the type to buy another console if they already have one
 
[quote name='usickenme']the casual audience isn't the type to buy another console if they already have one[/QUOTE]

Yea, the soccer moms got what they wanted and aren't going to dish out a $400+ investment for the same experience.
 
I thought it was pretty entertaining. I laughed a lot. The way Kinetic lets you use an interface was mind blowing. I don't really care about the games though, but they didn't look nearly as bad with dextrous and nimble people demoing them.
 
I'll agree, but MS had a pie chart in a meeting somewhere saying the market was still ripe.

EDIT: Maybe there are thinking that those Wii's are collecting dust and they can do better. Of the vids we have seen, non gaming people are impressed. If I had a child going into a gaming age, I'd strongly consider Kinect (mind you not knowing the price)
 
I watched the kinectimals trailer on marketplace. I read other posts acting like that was dumb, but Kids are going to beg their parents for it. A lot of the other stuff is probably more fun in person.


Gears 3 is going to be cool, Halo Reach space combat looks cool. The "slim" looks awesome, but I can't justify buying it when I have a 120gb non compatable hard drive.
 
Tivo'd the press conference on Spike to record today, and I just watched it with my brother and a friend of his.
Quite possibly the worst E3 and simultaneously the funniest Ive ever seen. Id like to piss and moan more but it was a laugh riot to watch. You cant buy laughs like that.

I laughed so hard I almost cried during the Molestimals demo.

I still dont know how I really feel about all this,.. I know this much tho: Microsoft dropped the ball in quite a few areas.
Take 'Your Shape'. Say what you will but you know for a fact theres a segment of consumers who will purchase a console and a Kinect for titles like this. But the gamer in me couldn't help but think. "It should be Tai Chi Training with Master Chief!"
 
Best part of the entire conference was seeing that white dude attempt to dance, only to be shown up by the dancers behind him. Go white boy go.

Somebody should have let MS know that console redesigns typically come with price drops. I might have gotten excited for it then, not paying $300 for a redesigned console.
 
[quote name='pjb16']For four people to play (assuming Kinect can handle 4 players) the Wii could cost more (an extra $30 x 3 for waggle-motes) than you are presenting.

In addition the 360 does HD graphics, has more hard drive space, and I believe has more online features now that ESPN and video chat are there.

I mean technically the prices you put are right, but it's also technically not the 1:1 comparison like you are presenting.[/QUOTE]

Excellent points across the board. :applause::applause::applause:

Let me Devil's Advocate for a second though...

Who really cares about the specs you mentioned? Hardcore gamers. The reason I say that is because when you look at the Wii, it's basically a Gamecube 2.0 with motion controls, correct? It does not have HD, very difficult online play/setup, and the games are, for the most part, lackluster shovelware titles. However, it sells like crazy. So, that's telling me that kids and their parents don't care for the specs of the console, just what it plays. As of right now, I see a ton of Wii knock off games from Kinect so if I were a parent, I would ask, "Why do you need a Kinect when you have a Wii?" I'm sure it will be an argument that consists of "But all of my friends have it!" and that's what MS is hoping for.

You are correct though...if there is more than one or two family members in the household who play the Wii and already own a 360, then this might be for them. However, how many people do you know that have this setup? I can think of one out of all of my friends and family.

Let me just say that I think MS is taking a HUGE risk here with Kinect. They are distancing themselves from the hardcore a bit and going mainstream. It's not a bad thing, but it's different. I think the price needs to come down and they need that one game that gets people buying the Kinect. They did it with Halo, Nintendo did it with Wii Sports, and so on. If they get one Kinect title that really wows people, they're golden. Otherwise, Sony's Move may just obliterate Kinect and leave it in the dust with other failed video game gimmicks of the past. Then again, Move may be awful too...who knows.
 
Gees, can kinect and the move just bomb already so we can move past this crap. Terrible.

Although, I am excited about Black Ops, I still have yet to play a treyarch COD, but this will likely be day one for me. Good job on going the cold war route.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']Thomas96, I agree in theory, but I still don't see what these new products bring to the table, other than a much higher cost of entry. I think the "wii market" has already bought their systems and this "competition" is a year late and at least $100 overpriced.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, if they pull Tiger Woods off on the PS3 with the move I'd definitely get it. I mean I am less interested in Kinect though I think the tech is real cool. The move could be real good depending on the software (just like kinect). I'd rather play golf in 1080p (or even 720p) than 480p as it's offered on the Wii even though it's supposed to be very good with Motion Plus.
 
[quote name='Pck21']Excellent points across the board. :applause::applause::applause:

Let me Devil's Advocate for a second though...

Who really cares about the specs you mentioned? Hardcore gamers. The reason I say that is because when you look at the Wii, it's basically a Gamecube 2.0 with motion controls, correct? It does not have HD, very difficult online play/setup, and the games are, for the most part, lackluster shovelware titles. However, it sells like crazy. So, that's telling me that kids and their parents don't care for the specs of the console, just what it plays. As of right now, I see a ton of Wii knock off games from Kinect so if I were a parent, I would ask, "Why do you need a Kinect when you have a Wii?" I'm sure it will be an argument that consists of "But all of my friends have it!" and that's what MS is hoping for.

You are correct though...if there is more than one or two family members in the household who play the Wii and already own a 360, then this might be for them. However, how many people do you know that have this setup? I can think of one out of all of my friends and family.

Let me just say that I think MS is taking a HUGE risk here with Kinect. They are distancing themselves from the hardcore a bit and going mainstream. It's not a bad thing, but it's different. I think the price needs to come down and they need that one game that gets people buying the Kinect. They did it with Halo, Nintendo did it with Wii Sports, and so on. If they get one Kinect title that really wows people, they're golden. Otherwise, Sony's Move may just obliterate Kinect and leave it in the dust with other failed video game gimmicks of the past. Then again, Move may be awful too...who knows.[/QUOTE]
I know. Most people wouldn't look at it like I (or you) would. Most people would just look at face value as you presented earlier and not factor in the need for future purchases (etc).

And it is definitely a gamble for MS. I would like them to succeed (as I want the Move to succeed, and 3D for that matter) because the tech could be very useful in a number of games that would appeal to me and create a vividly unique gaming experience (which is what most of us honestly probably yearn for).
 
[quote name='kingkiller33']I am sure that I am not alone in feeling massive disappointment over Microsoft's E3 conference. I knew that the motion control was going to be a major factor, but it appears that the ENTIRE conference was about this product that practically no one is excited about.

Granted, I've only read the Joystiq article, but from the photos, people are dancing and waving arms, oh so much freaking fun. Woohoo! Is Microsoft trying to reign in the Nintendo audience?

So no big new IPs, no big Live annoucements, no Hulu, and they throw in the new Xbox as a big surprise hoping to make up for the complete suck of it all. You fail, MS!![/QUOTE]

You have a very strong critique of something you didn't even bother watching?

I'm not expecting much from the console manufacturers this E3, or to clarify, the non-portable portion of gaming. These systems have been out a while now and new 1st party IPs and major feature updates are going to be hard to come by.
 
[quote name='pRINCESS-iSABELA']You've got to be joking, nothing was worse than that hehe.[/QUOTE]

Microsoft's E3 fucking sucked the worst bunch of sucks that ever did suck. They had to do this

1-bribe.jpg


to make sure journalists didn't write how badly they sucked.
 
IMO, it was informative and basically explained to you some (not all) new features coming out this year. Good because now you have some time to decide what you want to do (financially). You can save now or pass...it's all up to you.

But I agree with some statements. I play games on a gaming console (3 360's, 1 PS3, a Wii and all compliment each other well).

I have a computer to go online (as well as watch Netflix).

A TV to watch sports.

A Wii when I want to work out (or just go outside or the gym like "normal people").

If you're going to be doing any of these things they state are coming for long periods at a time (like watching a 4 hour sports event, then hoping on to play for another 4 hours every other day) you better get some kind of warranty over 2 years (especially if you're getting one at launch)! Don't forget what could (or could not) happen to the 360 you have now due to firmware updates to get these things going.

I see massive job openings in McAllen, TX for repairmen in the future.
 
It was quite painful to watch. I thought that the ESPN guys helped it a bit. They made that part at least a little worthwhile. Not much though.

A commenter on GameTrailers summed it up nicely:

mrmeatmaster: IM A GAMER AND E3 IS MY MECHA. WHY DO YOU DO THIS
Click to expand...
 
This shit they call the ubisoft presser thats on now is the sorriest shit I have ever seen. From Carrot Tops skateboarding adventures to this lazer tag bullshit and the guy pushing it who you can barely understand... yeah. Ubisoft bankruptcy filing coming soon.
 
They've gone from touting timed exclusive games to timed exclusive DLC. Lame. WTF has Konami done to MGS. My god... just call it something else if it's not going to be MGS. Don't ruin it. Poor Kojima having his team botch his baby.

That ESPN stuff looks awesome, I love how you can take part in stuff while watching the game. But I don't think I'll even be able to get it as I don't have ESPN 3.

Star Wars was the best looking Kinect game and even then it was shallow game play on rails.

MS easily spent over $1 million on the giveaway, there's gotta be 3,000+ people there x $300 x shipping.
 
[quote name='Paco']Microsoft's E3 fucking sucked the worst bunch of sucks that ever did suck. They had to do this

to make sure journalists didn't write how badly they sucked.[/QUOTE]

your opinion does not equal general consensus.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']The Wii's success was pure luck. Nintendo had no idea they were going to be so successful and that is why you couldn't find a wii on shelves for 2 years.

Microsoft and Sony trying to duplicate the Wii experience with slightly different games is going to be fruitless. Playing catch-up is going to hurt everyone(except Nintendo) in the end. I truly with Kinect/Move would have been shown with NOTHING resembling Wii sports, but it looks like copying that game is what these companies are trying to do.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't pure luck, it was calculated business with some serious risks. I don't think Nintendo anticipated this much success, but I'm sure they expected their core audience to keep them afloat regardless. So it was certainly worth taking the dive for and see what happens.

Nonetheless, there IS and has ALWAYS BEEN a casual market, its just no-one was able to tap into it until now. And like one other poster stated, just putting your foot in the door increases your market span. That's what they are trying to accomplish, R&D and getting in through the door.

If they are successful, why, that's just the cherry on top. Mark my words, this is not the end of MS and Sony becoming more casual friendly.

Its the beginning.
 
I've been anxious to hear Microsoft's big surprise announcements given their past track record (GTA4, FFXIII, NetFlix, etc), but this year, I've left disappointed.

Given how much money Microsoft spent to buy the Kinect company and subsequent R&D (both internal and external), my confidence that they'll make a good return on investment based on the software shown today is not promising.

The casual market certainly exists and can generate phenomenal sales, but those success stories are really exceptions to the norm (unless it's a Nintendo IP).

Kinect looks like a solution in search of a problem. At least the Move has been shown to cater towards both the hard core and casual (for what it's worth).
 
Personally, I thought today's MS Presser was the worst one in E3 history. I can see that MS is really grasping at straws by ripping off Nintendo's Wii and making it their big focus, complete with phony performances of Kinect in action.

Then again, it's not worth arguing with people who are too scared to be ostracized by their E-friends for calling out MS. It's amazing how so many people value their e-friends in 2010.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']Personally, I thought today's MS Presser was the worst one in E3 history. I can see that MS is really grasping at straws by ripping off Nintendo's Wii and making it their big focus, complete with phony performances of Kinect in action.

Then again, it's not worth arguing with people who are too scared to be ostracized by their E-friends for calling out MS. It's amazing how so many people value their e-friends in 2010.[/QUOTE]

It's easily MS worst one ever, but I still think Sega 95, Sony 05, Sony 06, and Nintendo 08 were worse.
 
[quote name='pRINCESS-iSABELA']your opinion does not equal general consensus.[/QUOTE]
lol have you not seen xbox live, major nelson and everyone who works for Microsoft are ****ting their pants with money to say good things

spitting out crap like= it was awesome, it was fantastic, my favorite part was this.
 
[quote name='timesplitt']lol have you not seen xbox live, major nelson and everyone who works for Microsoft are ****ting their pants with money to say good things

spitting out crap like= it was awesome, it was fantastic, my favorite part was this.[/QUOTE]
You can hate something and still have a favorite part.
 
i thought the press conference was fine. It wasn't great, but not horrible either. I mean, essentially it's a huge commercial for xbox. That's what all these press conferences are. I like some of the kinetic stuff, mostly menu navigation, but I am worried they didn't announce a price. I fear it is $150 which is twice what i would like to see it at. I read somewhere $399 w/ the new box, which might be ok.
 
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