MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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Did anyone else see Henderson's corner pour water down his pants in between rounds? It looked a little funny with the guys fingers in his pants, but who am I to judge.
 
I don't belive it's so much Brock being a Jerk as just an athlete being caught up in the heat of the moment. For months you train to smash a guy, the fights on, adrenaline pumpin, Wham! fights over, you win, It's hard to turn that off in a second.

Can't wait to see the bisping KO over and over on the highlight reels.
 
[quote name='Dingleberry']Did anyone else see Henderson's corner pour water down his pants in between rounds? It looked a little funny with the guys fingers in his pants, but who am I to judge.[/QUOTE]

I saw that and right before, Hendo told the guy "pull this out" the guy looks at Hendo and says "what?" Hendo repeats himself and the guy tugs on Hendo's waist band. Looked like they were too tight or something. The water thing looked like an afterthought.
 
[quote name='Dingleberry']Did anyone else see Henderson's corner pour water down his pants in between rounds? It looked a little funny with the guys fingers in his pants, but who am I to judge.[/QUOTE]

I didn't notice that, but I did get a kick out of poor GSP grimacing and adjusting during his post fight interview with Joe Rogan. You could tell how uncomfortable and in pain he was, but he just kept talking. At one point, he looked like a 5 year old doing "the pee dance", but you gotta give him credit for hanging in there.

[quote name='5of9']I don't belive it's so much Brock being a Jerk as just an athlete being caught up in the heat of the moment. For months you train to smash a guy, the fights on, adrenaline pumpin, Wham! fights over, you win, It's hard to turn that off in a second.[/QUOTE]

Ehh, that's kind of a flimsy excuse. I can understand being pumped up, but you're still a professional and you're responsible for your actions. Either way though, it is what it is. I just hope he handles himself differently in the future. It would be nice if the alleged "biggest star in UFC" actually cared about how he represented the sport.
 
Best part of last night goes to

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[quote name='Renzokuken']Best part of last night goes to

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I couldn't agree more. I've always liked Dan Henderson quite a bit, and after last night he rose up higher on my list of favorite fighters.
 
[quote name='5of9']I don't belive it's so much Brock being a Jerk as just an athlete being caught up in the heat of the moment. For months you train to smash a guy, the fights on, adrenaline pumpin, Wham! fights over, you win, It's hard to turn that off in a second.
[/QUOTE]

Eh, it's all an act, just like it was in wrestling. Pretty funny stuff though.
 
There really wasn't much to see in the GSP fight unless you want to see 85% of it on the ground and in a hold. Lesnar was decent, he mashed Mir's face pretty well.
 
[quote name='Vince McMahon']n8 do you get beat up a lot? Cuz you sure whine a lot like someone who might get beat up a lot. Just an observation.[/QUOTE]

What? Because I think Lesnar showed no class, that means I must get beaten up? Where's the logic there? It's not surprising that someone with a member name of Vince McMahon would defend Brock's antics though. Look around the news. Everybody is writing about how he undermined his great performance by acting like an idiot. Go back to your fake fighting. Let me know who gets crushed under a car this week.
 
I freaking love how GSP apologizes for getting hurt..lol. He is one tough dude, and a very humble champion. Truely the best in the world in his weight class. Hopefully he comes back sooner than later.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']What? Because I think Lesnar showed no class, that means I must get beaten up? Where's the logic there? It's not surprising that someone with a member name of Vince McMahon would defend Brock's antics though. Look around the news. Everybody is writing about how he undermined his great performance by acting like an idiot. Go back to your fake fighting. Let me know who gets crushed under a car this week.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that controversy is money, right? Lesnar's antics is only going to get the media (and casual/non fans) talking. Rather if it gets people to start following UFC/MMA more or not I can't say. But at least its bringing UFC/MMA more into the mainstream which while you see his antics as bad its better than nothing.
 
I enjoyed the night of fights except my buddies TWC HD feed was fucked up so we had to watch in SD. I agree Belcher got robbed but decisions can always go either way(never let the judges decide a fight). WAR HENDO me and my buddies went insane when Hendo knocked the count silly!(I hit him one more time to shut him up for a little bit.) GSP dominated most the fight but Alves put up a fight though(tie for best quote of the night I think I pull my abductor muscle I don't care hit him with it!) I really was disappointed in Mir's performance and Lesnar's post fight interview(please bring Fedor to UFC!).
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']You do realize that controversy is money, right? Lesnar's antics is only going to get the media (and casual/non fans) talking. Rather if it gets people to start following UFC/MMA more or not I can't say. But at least its bringing UFC/MMA more into the mainstream which while you see his antics as bad its better than nothing.[/QUOTE]

This is true. But I don't know anybody who would say insulting one of the UFC's biggest sponsors was a smart move. And like Dana said in the post-fight interview, it's not how the UFC was built. I don't see the point of getting into the mainstream if it's by having a negative image. As others have stated, Lesnar made MMA look like a bunch of barbarians having a dick measuring contest. Clearly, there's a right way to do things and a wrong way. And acting trashy just to get more viewers leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth.

It reminds me somewhat of the early days of Tito Ortiz's career. He was an arrogant kid who thought he could beat anybody. And he would ridicule his opponents by putting on t-shirts declaring how badly he beat their ass.

His most infamous moment came after beating Lion's Den member Guy Metzger, when he put on a shirt that said "Gay Metzger is my bitch". That's when Ken Shamrock blew up at Tito, and their huge feud began (all of this was before Zuffa bought UFC).

Tito was about 22 at the time, and while all that stuff was disrespectful, it was at least aimed at an opponent, and added to the intensity of future matches. But even Tito eventually grew out of it. Hearing a 32 year old grown man talk negatively about sponsors, and flipping off the entire crowd (which was Mir's home crowd...so no shit they're going to boo) was unnecessary.

Anyway, I'm done talking about the Lesnar fight. My thought on the actual match itself is that UFC needs a Super Heavyweight division because no one under 235 is going to have a chance against Brock. Those guys between 206-235 are in no man's land. Even Mir at 245 wasn't enough. Fedor is probably the only answer for Brock. I just hope he doesn't make excuses and not sign.
 
When I first started watching UFC I was blown away seeing the level of professionalism and respect the fighters had not only for the sport but for each other. It was refreshing to see after a guy kick another guys ass, he'd go up and give him a hug, handshake or bow. Seeing the Matt Hughes/Serra fight was a perfect example. They talked alot of shit before the match, and had some harsh feelings for each other. By the end of the fight, they acknowledged each other and seem to have left the ring on better terms. I recently watched Shamrock vs Ortiz and they seem to have come to a level of respect for each other after the fight.

My point being, as someone who wasn't into MMA it was respect the fighters gave each other, that turned me onto the sport. Honestly, if 2/3 of the league had Brocks attitude I'd be turned off.
 
Bottom line, love or hate him.... Brock not only got you talking about him, it has people who dont normally watch MMA talking about him and MMA. That is good for the sport, put more asses in seats, more dollars to pay per veiw and more money to fighters.

I would like to see the day when MMA fighters make big money like pro boxing, without the corruption.

I find it to be a fun sport to watch and participate in, but I do believe it needs to pay fighters more.

Brock is here to stay and will be the ONLY chance of anyone dethrowning the King(Fedor).
 
Everyone seems like they're bashing Brock, but did you hear the live crowd POP after he cut that promo? It was like they were on his side after cheering against him all night.
 
For people complaining about Brock's attitude post fight must've completely forgotten Mir's trash talking over the last few months. I don't think Mir will say that Brock hits like his little sister anymore.

That fact that Dana White said the comments were unprofessional is bullshit considering Dana White drops the F-bomb and makes disrespectful statements all the time. Brock might've been rude, but Dana White makes his living talking that way all the time.

Brock's comments weren't nearly as unsporting as Henderson taking a shot on a guy that he admitted he knew was KOed. Yet no one seems to take issue with that.
 
Not to mention Dana White gave Henderson a $100k bonus for his knockout last night also. I'm not understanding why it's ok to trash talk for weeks before the fight but afterwards it's not. Also why is Dana White on every TV show or PPV, UFC does. I think he's trying to be the McMahon of MMA, just not as over the top.
 
There's a difference between trash talking your opponent (which often makes for a better fight) and ripping into one of your employer's biggest sponsors completely unprovoked. The only reason Dana was even concerned with those comments was because he didn't want to piss off Budweiser and lose a ton of money.

As for "Why Dana is always there", he's the President of UFC, and he's been very involved in shaping MMA. He's been busting his ass to improve the sport for over 10 years. Sure, he can be crude at times, but he never dodges a question and he tells it like it is. He doesn't talk like a businessman or a politician simply because he's a fan first (notice Joe Rogan is the same way).

Ripping into Loretta Hunt may not have been the smartest thing ever, but she attacked him first, questioning his practices and making accusations that were completely unfounded. Some of the words he chose were harsh, but he was defending himself. He probably should have taken some time to cool off before recording his response, but we've all been there before.

Regardless of all that, there will always be Lesnar apologists who love everything the guy does. A lot of those people probably followed him over from WWE, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. They're Lesnar fans. But he has the opportunity to be the most dominant heavyweight of all time. If he'd give up this "everyone wants to see me fail" attitude, people might actually start to like him and appreciate his ability.
 
Regardless of all that, there will always be Lesnar apologists who love everything the guy does. A lot of those people probably followed him over from WWE, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. They're Lesnar fans. But he has the opportunity to be the most dominant heavyweight of all time. If he'd give up this "everyone wants to see me fail" attitude, people might actually start to like him and appreciate his ability.
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Or maybe some folks don't understand why people have no problem with stuff like Dana White, the public face of UFC, can use words sponsors don't like such as 'bitch' and '$$$$$$' when talking about a reporter and article. Or how do you think sponsors felt about Rampage Jackson hit and run on two different cars and then tried to evade the police? He was bailed out by White and no punishment was ever made public. Or during a time they're trying to convince politicians in New York it's not a dangerous blood sport....then give the KO of the Night to Henderson who creamed an unconscious opponent?

It just seems amusing that all of that appears not to be worth getting worked up over, but Brock Lesnar insults Bud Light and OMG!

But I'm from MN, so I'm obligated to root for him.

His speech would've been more amusing if UFC still only had smaller sponsors. Had Brock insulted Condom Depot that would've been classic. Besides that I think the biggest insult was him admitting that he would ever drink a Coors Light.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']. As others have stated, Lesnar made MMA look like a bunch of barbarians having a dick measuring contest. [/QUOTE]

Um, isn't that what it basically is? All the fighters talk a whole bunch of shit. I don't see how it's any different when Brock does it.

Dana knows what he's doing with Lesnar. It gets people talking. I wouldn't be surprised if he eggs Lesnar on. He basically is the Vince McMahon of MMA.
 
[quote name='Blackout']Um, isn't that what it basically is? All the fighters talk a whole bunch of shit. I don't see how it's any different when Brock does it.

Dana knows what he's doing with Lesnar. It gets people talking. I wouldn't be surprised if he eggs Lesnar on. He basically is the Vince McMahon of MMA.[/QUOTE]

There are many fighters like GSP, Fedor, Anderson Silva, and Machida who do little to no trash talking.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Wow... Bisping's first real loss.[/QUOTE]

It was also the first time he has fought anyone that was worth anything in the MW division.
 
Dana might pretend to be appalled at Brock's actions post-fight, but I'm sure he's doing just fine with the amount of coverage Brock has brought to his company. Of course Dana has to condemn Brock dogging the sponsors - it's a great way to save face and not lose them.
 
Just seeing so many people us the term "promo" for Lesnar's talk makes me want to puke. Anything that crosses over from WWE into the UFC is terrible for the sport. If Lesnar has to put on a "heel" act for people to notice him then the sport hasn't come near as far as it needs to. Tito Ortiz acted like an asshole as well, and he built up his fights just like Lesnar did. But he was a real person afterwards, in every fight he was in. He always showed the real him, his real personality, after a fight. Lesnar was practically cutting a fucking wrestling promo in the cage afterward. WTF man leave that shit behind.......

YOUR MIC SKILLS SUCKED ASS THEN AND THEY SUCK ASS NOW!
 
This obviously isn't the case 100% of the time but it seems to me that for the most part the Lesnar fans are WWE fans and the more hardcore MMA fans hate Lesnar......that's all I'm saying.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I strongly hate Lesnar and this WWE heel promo shit needs to end. I think I cringed when Lesnar brought out the "horseshoe" line that sounded like it came straight out of a WWE promo.
 
God bless Lesnar. And god bless the people who hate him for being so hilarious. The Sherdog forums after that fight were especially a treat to read. Some people just can NOT accept the fact a "fake wrestler" is dominating all their heroes. Toooo bad.

You've got Rampage practically forcing himself on women and running from the cops, you've got the face of the orginization calling people "$$$$$$," but we'll overlook that because Lesnar dares to be a past WWE employee and gets a little belligerent during a post-fight interview (after the other guy mocked him for weeks building up to the fight). Lesnar is often a dick in real life, that has nothing to do with "WWE."

For fuck's sake, he was an amateur wrestler first, ya morons. WWE was a way for him to make money, just like UFC is. That's it. Quit trying to pretend it's so much more important than it really is. Speaking of which:

As others have stated, Lesnar made MMA look like a bunch of barbarians having a dick measuring contest.
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Lesnar is no more guilty of this than many of the other fighters in the organization. Plus, that IS basically what it is. Time to accept that fact.
 
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[quote name='pimpster4183']As I said in one of my earlier posts, I strongly hate Lesnar and this WWE heel promo shit needs to end. I think I cringed when Lesnar brought out the "horseshoe" line that sounded like it came straight out of a WWE promo.[/QUOTE]

Well, Dana did say that he'd believe him this time (that Brock just got carried away). If it happens again though, I hope he does something about it. For all you guys enjoying Lesnar's schtick and begging for more, you do realize how trashy it is, right? This isn't pretend WWE. He's competing in a real sport now, against real people, for real championships. Would you raise your kids to behave that way when playing Little League or Pee Wee Football?

The only other reason I could see Lesnar fans enjoying him acting like an idiot is because they don't take it seriously...meaning they don't take MMA seriously. I guess I can understand that since they're used to watching WWE, but it's still disappointing.

Nobody recognizes that MMA has had to struggle and adapt to not be banned all across the US. John McCain, himself, tried to put UFC out of business by referring to it as human cock fighting and getting people to rally against it. This is why we take the sport seriously. We appreciate how far it's come.

I don't have extensive personal experience in martial arts, but I did kickbox for 2 years in high school. And aside from the actual techniques, we learned respect and good sportsmanship. Is this stuff just "lame" to people now? I know I value those traits, and appreciate athletes who exhibit them. I guess if that makes me nerdy and uncool, then so be it.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Lesnar is no more guilty of this than many of the other fighters in the organization. Plus, that IS basically what it is. Time to accept that fact.[/QUOTE]

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Every sport has its thugs and criminals. But even with guys like Rampage and Tito Ortiz, Dana has been able to keep their egos in check and make them recognize that no one man is bigger than the sport. I don't think Brock possesses this mentality, and that's where I could see problems arising.
 
Let's rather accept the fact that UFC is not "sport."

For a moment, and in a sense.

Is it competitive? Is the outcome uncertain? Yes and yes.

Based on what measurement of excellence in the organization/sport as a whole was Lesnar assessed as the person who should challenge for the UFC Heavyweight Title against (EDIT: Randy Couture, duh)? Two wins against nobodies, and a loss to Mir? That this fight happened shows that the events are built around what people will pay money to see. Lamentably for those who would think that this is a "pure sport" (whatever in the world that means), that's how fight cards are built. Not based on some quantifiable rubric of who is in line for a fight.

Like professional wrestling, you get a title match if you're "over" with the crowd.

I understand, to a degree, if you don't like Lesnar as a human being. He's a petulant child who cries when he's unhappy, and a hillbilly shit talker who lacks a remarkable amount of social tact.

But acting like he's degrading a sport with the history and characters UFC/MMA does is the same kind of overreaction that people have to charismatic athletes who change the face of sports.

Dennis Rodman did not ruin NBA basketball.
John McEnroe and Andre Agassi did not ruin tennis; nor did the Williams sisters.
Chad Ochocinco (christ i hate typing that) won't outlive or outlast the NFL.
That dude what had the "Garnier Fructis" NASCAR didn't ruin that, either.
...I'm sure you can think of dozens better examples than those.
Likewise, Brock Lesnar won't kill the UFC.

I still stand by what I said: give him 2-3 losses, and he'll quit and cry about how it was everyone's fault but his own. Hell, listen to him frame the discussion of his loss to Mir. He doesn't talk about a "mistake," he constantly refers to his error as a "gift" he "gave" to Mir. Which takes away some of the responsibility for such a basic screwup.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Let's rather accept the fact that UFC is not "sport."

For a moment, and in a sense.

Is it competitive? Is the outcome uncertain? Yes and yes.

Based on what measurement of excellence in the organization/sport as a whole was Lesnar assessed as the person who should challenge for the UFC Heavyweight Title against (EDIT: Randy Couture, duh)? Two wins against nobodies, and a loss to Mir? That this fight happened shows that the events are built around what people will pay money to see. Lamentably for those who would think that this is a "pure sport" (whatever in the world that means), that's how fight cards are built. Not based on some quantifiable rubric of who is in line for a fight.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if I agree with all of that. Lesnar definitely got an extra push because of his name. But the fact is, the UFC heavyweight division was really weak at that time (and it kind of still is). A lot of the former champions careers were faltering. Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski started sucking, Mir was in a serious accident, Antonio Nogueira was getting old, and Randy Couture was old and in a contract dispute.

Sure, Lesnar didn't exactly earn his shot, but there was NOBODY he really leapfrogged over. The fights in the UFC are not set up based on who's "over" with the fans as you say. Look at the other recent title fights: GSP vs Alves...completely deserved. Silva vs Leites...deserved because MW is weak as hell also. Evans vs Machida...completely deserved. UFC101: Penn vs Florian...completely deserved. Those aren't just the popular matchups. They're the right matchups.

[quote name='mykevermin']I still stand by what I said: give him 2-3 losses, and he'll quit and cry about how it was everyone's fault but his own. Hell, listen to him frame the discussion of his loss to Mir. He doesn't talk about a "mistake," he constantly refers to his error as a "gift" he "gave" to Mir. Which takes away some of the responsibility for such a basic screwup.[/QUOTE]

Well, let's hope those 2-3 losses come in his next 2-3 fights then :) Maybe he can go try out for the Vikings again. Hey, he might get to play with Brett Favre this time!

Oh, and UFC is definitely not a sport. UFC is a company. However, MMA is most certainly a sport. It's as much of a sport as boxing, and is really even more cohesive than boxing considering you don't have multiple governing bodies with multiple belts. Add to that the fact that boxing has become filled with dirty dealings and fight fixes, and MMA has to be considered the top form of competitive hand to hand combat. Joe Rogan has had hundreds of debates on this with numerous sports writers/personalities. And as he says, boxing is the sport of punching. MMA is the sport of fighting.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Well, Dana did say that he'd believe him this time (that Brock just got carried away). If it happens again though, I hope he does something about it. For all you guys enjoying Lesnar's schtick and begging for more, you do realize how trashy it is, right?
[/QUOTE]

So it was also trashy with Henderson-Bisping? Ortiz-Shamrock? Ortiz-Metzger? BJ Penn's interview against GSP before GSP dominated him where he said he was going to kill GSP in the octogon? Hughes vs Serra fight was built on longstanding mutual disrespect. Royce Gracie was well known for his smack talk. Bas Rutten? Tank Abbott?

Brock didn't call him a douchebag, asshole, make a T-shirt saying Mir was his Bitch, say he was going to go out to the cage and kill Mir, etc. It certainly wasn't the first time a fighter reacted to the crowd booing him that way.

I'm just amazed that people have a problem with this when it doesn't even come close to what other fighters have said or done. Henderson did much worse and was awarded.
 
[quote name='whiptcracker']So it was also trashy with Henderson-Bisping? Ortiz-Shamrock? Ortiz-Metzger? BJ Penn's interview against GSP before GSP dominated him where he said he was going to kill GSP in the octogon? Hughes vs Serra fight was built on longstanding mutual disrespect. Royce Gracie was well known for his smack talk. Bas Rutten? Tank Abbott?

Brock didn't call him a douchebag, asshole, make a T-shirt saying Mir was his Bitch, say he was going to go out to the cage and kill Mir, etc. It certainly wasn't the first time a fighter reacted to the crowd booing him that way.

I'm just amazed that people have a problem with this when it doesn't even come close to what other fighters have said or done. Henderson did much worse and was awarded.[/QUOTE]

Yeah everyone talks shit BEFORE the fight. Most of everyone you just listed is always respectful after the fights, Tito vs. Metzger being the only real exception. And hey guess what..... people flipped their shit when Ortiz acted like that too. Brock isn't getting any different treatment, he was an asshole AFTER the fight, didn't thank anyone, didn't say one nice thing about anyone or anything, was just being a stupid fuck.
 
[quote name='cgarb84']Yeah everyone talks shit BEFORE the fight. Most of everyone you just listed is always respectful after the fights, Tito vs. Metzger being the only real exception. And hey guess what..... people flipped their shit when Ortiz acted like that too. Brock isn't getting any different treatment, he was an asshole AFTER the fight, didn't thank anyone, didn't say one nice thing about anyone or anything, was just being a stupid fuck.[/QUOTE]

Yeah and what was one of the UFC fights that gained the largest TV audience? Ortiz vs Shamrock.

Henderson isn't an exception, in his interview he said he knew that Bisping was out and delivered another blow to just shut him up. But I guess that's cool?

Gracie and Abbott certainly talked shit after thier fights.

I guess you must've missed all of the shit talking Mir has done about Brock that happened after the last fight?

Pretty sure BJ Penn hasn't stopped talking shit since the GSP fight.

But Brock isn't being held by a different standard.

Also, I'm not sure if I get your point, calling someone a douche, asshole, disrespecting them or two guys claiming they hate each other is only okay if they do it before the fight, but after they're supposed to be friendly?
 
For the final time, nobody cares about Brock talking shit about/to Mir. What crossed the line was flipping off a paying crowd and ripping into one of your employer's biggest sponsors. NO FIGHTER has ever done this before, and as others have said, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. HOWEVER, Brock apologized and the world will get over it. As long as he doesn't act this dumb in the future, he'll be fine.

About Henderson, he may have said hitting Bisping after the big punch was "on purpose", but I've seen guys do far worse. If Lesnar is to be believed that he was so "jacked up" after the fight that he couldn't control his mouth, how can you expect a fighter to let up DURING a fight? Yes, Henderson PROBABLY knew he had KO'd Bisping, but why take a chance and let him recover? He kept attacking until the referee stopped him. I can't fault that. That's what the referee is there for.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I don't know if I agree with all of that. Lesnar definitely got an extra push because of his name. But the fact is, the UFC heavyweight division was really weak at that time (and it kind of still is). A lot of the former champions careers were faltering. Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski started sucking, Mir was in a serious accident, Antonio Nogueira was getting old, and Randy Couture was old and in a contract dispute.[/quote]

You're reinforcing my point. "Started sucking," "getting old" and "contract dispute" all reinforce that it was not a competition-based metric that got Lesnar his shot. You're making things up, really, that are periphery to whether or not someone is a good fighter, or has a recently remarkable W/L record. Moreover, you excuse Mir's lack of a title fight on account of an accident that happened 5 years ago, when Lesnar's title match was fewer than 9 months ago.

Really, you're reinforcing that it's not based on skill or ability.

Oh, and UFC is definitely not a sport. UFC is a company. However, MMA is most certainly a sport. It's as much of a sport as boxing, and is really even more cohesive than boxing considering you don't have multiple governing bodies with multiple belts. Add to that the fact that boxing has become filled with dirty dealings and fight fixes, and MMA has to be considered the top form of competitive hand to hand combat. Joe Rogan has had hundreds of debates on this with numerous sports writers/personalities. And as he says, boxing is the sport of punching. MMA is the sport of fighting.
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Look, I get that you like MMA/UFC, but your ability to convince yourself of the rightness of your point via selective argument is stunning. There aren't multiple governing bodies and belts in MMA? There aren't dozens, if not hundreds, of MMA organizations globally? Each with their own nuances and titles? Absolute, unadulterated pish-posh. UFC is the dominant organization in the market, but acting like they're the only game in town involves a strong degree of willful ignorance.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']For the final time, nobody cares about Brock talking shit about/to Mir. What crossed the line was flipping off a paying crowd and ripping into one of your employer's biggest sponsors. NO FIGHTER has ever done this before, and as others have said, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. HOWEVER, Brock apologized and the world will get over it. As long as he doesn't act this dumb in the future, he'll be fine.

About Henderson, he may have said hitting Bisping after the big punch was "on purpose", but I've seen guys do far worse. If Lesnar is to be believed that he was so "jacked up" after the fight that he couldn't control his mouth, how can you expect a fighter to let up DURING a fight? Yes, Henderson PROBABLY knew he had KO'd Bisping, but why take a chance and let him recover? He kept attacking until the referee stopped him. I can't fault that. That's what the referee is there for.[/QUOTE]

To quote Henderson "I've knocked out guys before, so I knew that he was out, that final shot was just to shut him up".

The ref was out of position though, he shouldn't have let that happen.

It's certainly not the first time a fighter has attacked the crowd for booing, or flipped off the crowd before.

The sponsor thing was out of line. I still say Dana's reaction to a written article was potentially more damning to any future sponsorships than that, and in recent interviews he says that just the way he talks and that's not going to change. But he expects the fighters to after a fight?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Like professional wrestling, you get a title match if you're "over" with the crowd.[/QUOTE]


I don't know how much MMA you've watched but this point here could not be more incorrect. There have been tons of fighters over the years that have definitely not been "over" with the crowd and still given title fights. In MMA title fights actually DO happen because of matchups. Lesnar was given the title shot because at the time there was really no other HW to give that title shot at that time. Most fighters have to get 3 or 4 consecutive wins before given the opportunity of a title fight. If popularity or being "over" gave fighters title shots, some fighters would be given a title shot every fight.

[quote name='whiptcracker']Yeah and what was one of the UFC fights that gained the largest TV audience? Ortiz vs Shamrock.
Henderson isn't an exception, in his interview he said he knew that Bisping was out and delivered another blow to just shut him up. But I guess that's cool?
Gracie and Abbott certainly talked shit after thier fights.
I guess you must've missed all of the shit talking Mir has done about Brock that happened after the last fight?
Pretty sure BJ Penn hasn't stopped talking shit since the GSP fight.
But Brock isn't being held by a different standard.
Also, I'm not sure if I get your point, calling someone a douche, asshole, disrespecting them or two guys claiming they hate each other is only okay if they do it before the fight, but after they're supposed to be friendly?[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you saw Ortiz/Shamrock after their last fight but they burried the hatchet and were talking respectively about each other after that fight. That's usually how that works. Did you hear Mir's interview in the Octagon after the fight? He was talking about what he did wrong and what Lesnar did to take advantage of his mistakes. He was acting like an adult after the fight was over.

Hmm.....what did Mr. Lesnar do after the fight? Lets see... as soon as Mir was on his feet Lesnar heads right over to him and starts talking shit. Next when Joe comes in to talk to Lesnar he starts acting respe....oops. Oh wait, Lesnar once again shows 0 respect for anyone and pulls out a line such as "I told everyone Mir had a horseshoe up his ass and I pulled it out and beat him over the head with it". Then Lesnar procedes to give everyone in the arena the double bird and rip on a major sponsor of the UFC.

I can see that you are apparently a big fan of Lesnar which is fine....but you could at least acknowlege the fact that he was acting like a fucking prick afterwards.
 
[quote name='bg88']I don't know if you saw Ortiz/Shamrock after their last fight but they burried the hatchet and were talking respectively about each other after that fight. That's usually how that works. Did you hear Mir's interview in the Octagon after the fight? He was talking about what he did wrong and what Lesnar did to take advantage of his mistakes. He was acting like an adult after the fight was over.

Hmm.....what did Mr. Lesnar do after the fight? Lets see... as soon as Mir was on his feet Lesnar heads right over to him and starts talking shit. Next when Joe comes in to talk to Lesnar he starts acting respe....oops. Oh wait, Lesnar once again shows 0 respect for anyone and pulls out a line such as "I told everyone Mir had a horseshoe up his ass and I pulled it out and beat him over the head with it". Then Lesnar procedes to give everyone in the arena the double bird and rip on a major sponsor of the UFC.

I can see that you are apparently a big fan of Lesnar which is fine....but you could at least acknowlege the fact that he was acting like a fucking prick afterwards.[/QUOTE]

Fine, then Ortiz/Machida. Ortiz/Metzger. That was Shamrock/Ortiz 3, and by that point the guy knew he was going to win and that the fight was going to make him money.

How about Mir after Lesnar/Mir 1? He's been nothing but disrespectful of Lesnar since that fight. Hell he said Lesnar's punches were like that of his little sister.

I'm not a big fan of Lesnar's. I just think people are making a big deal out of nothing. Lesnar hada fight with a guy who already beat him, who had the odds to win, was considered one of the top Heavyweight fighters, who talked shit about him for months leading up to the fight and had the crowd booing him the whole time. Was he being a bit of a dick? Yeah. But considering Mir's comments leading up to the fight and how the crowd treated him I felt he earned it. He just beat a guy who said he was lightyears ahead of Lesnar, that he was a dumb gorrilla, that he should go back to the fake stuff, that he hits like a girl and on and on. He's just supposed to ignore that?

That Bud Light comment was out of line though. I don't get what the story behind that one is.
 
Brock shouldn't have ripped on Bud Light. They are a major sponsor of the company that employees him. Flipping of the crowd, he shouldn't do that either, those people you just flipped off pay your salary. As for talking shit about Mir, that's fair game. Mir talked a ton of trash and gave Brock no respect, why should Brock ever be nice to him? Hell Mir lost and he is already saying he has Brock afraid to stand with him, and that Brock was running from him like a lightweight. Mir is just a big of a bitch as Lesnar.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That doesn't explain why Mir did not get a title fight, though.[/QUOTE]

I love how you think you're right no matter what you say. Your arrogance is unbelievable. These are Mir's fights after his motorcycle accident (up to his first match against Brock).

Result - Opponent - Decision - Event - Date - Round - Time
Win - Brock Lesnar - Submission (Kneebar) - UFC 81 - Breaking Point - 2/2/2008 - 1 - 1:30
Win - Antoni Hardonk - Submission (Kimura) - UFC 74 - Respect - 8/25/2007 - 1 - 1:17
Loss - Brandon Vera - TKO (Punches) - UFC 65 - Bad Intentions - 11/18/2006 - 1 - 1:09
Win - Dan Christison - Decision (Unanimous) - UFC 61 - Bitter Rivals - 7/8/2006 - 3 - 5:00
Loss - Marcio Cruz - TKO (Punches and Elbows) - UFC 57 - Liddell vs Couture 3 - 2/4/2006 - 1 - 4:10

His first three fights included two losses and an unimpressive decision victory over Dan Christison. I wouldn't call that a clear cut resume of someone deserving a title shot. Not to mention the fact that the heavyweight title holder was in a contract dispute.

After nearly a year of not defending the title, an interim belt was finally created. Tim Sylvia and Big Nog fought for this belt (the same night that Mir fought Lesnar the first time). Since Nogueira won the title, and Mir beat Lesnar, Mir was set to fight Nogueira for the only heavyweight title being contended for at the time.

Then, out of nowhere, Randy Couture settles his contract dispute, returns as the reigning champion, and needs an opponent. After his loss to Nogueira, Tim Sylvia left for Affliction. With the heavyweight division being really weak, that left Brock Lesnar as the only viable challenger. He may not have had the record to warrant a title shot, but clearly he had the talent.

See what you want, believe what you want, tell yourself how great you are. I don't give a shit. But I'm not sure how the UFC could have been much more pragmatic than that.
 
Oh, here we go. Shane Carwin's comments concerning Brock Lesnar...taken directly from his blog.
(http://www.shane-carwin.com/profiles/blogs/ufc-100-thoughts)

I cannot say I was surprised by anything that night other then Brock's reaction to beating a very tough Frank Mir. Frank is a legend and a great guy who got out powered not out classed. The sponsor issue, you need to talk to your manager not the fans or Dana.

The flipping off of the fans that just lined your pocket with millions of dollars is just LAME. He may be a Champion but he has a long ways to go before he earns the respect of a Champion. The fans are why we do this Brock, this sport is not about fat paychecks and drama it is about hard work and sacrifice for a shot to do what you did last night. It doesn't matter how much money you make if you can't earn your peers respect and the respect and love of the greatest sporting fans in the world. We have no scripts in this sport, no pre-determined earning amount and no pre-determined outcomes. It doesn't matter if you win or loose it matters how you win or loose.

Every autograph I give, every hand I shake I am thankful that you give me the opportunity to be a part of your world. This is the greatest sport int he world and most of the athletes in it deserve the love and respect they get and some just dont get it.

From leaving the venue all the way to the Airport I have had fans of the sport ask me to take out Brock Lesnar for them. The thing is I have a very tough fight ahead of me that IMO is every bit as tough and talented as Brock. Cain is no joke and he may have had a tough fight against Kongo but I got rocked against Gonzaga. Fact is we are at the top of the HWT division and anyone we fight moving forward is going to be a real test. Cain is nothing short of a super athlete with amazing wrestling and he trains with one of the best camps in the country. I am sure Joe Silva told Cain the same thing he told us, winner gets the title shot. Cain is not looking past me he is looking right at me as the person that is in his way from potentially one of the greatest opportunities of his life and mine.

I have said what I have to say about Brock. He will make sure the world knows who he is and what he is all about. I ask that you my fans and the fans of Cain give this fight its due. You would never see two rising undefeated stars put together in Boxing so enjoy this fight. Two warriors with wills to win and the skills to do so are going to show those watching UFC 104 what the future of the sport will look like. Tune in and support Cain and I.
Click to expand...
I'd still rather see Fedor come to UFC, but if not, I'm pulling for Carwin already :)
 
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