MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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[quote name='cgarb84']What fight are you talking about? Alves and Silva are different weights and have never fought.[/QUOTE]

Thales Leites not Alves. Again posting quickly while working bites me in the ass. I would probably make better points myself if I actually looked at what I was writing eh?
 
[quote name='cgarb84']What fight are you talking about? Alves and Silva are different weights and have never fought.[/QUOTE]

He means Leites (although the fact that he couldn't remember his name speaks volumes for what a "memorable" performance Leites gave, haha). And no, I think Silva was showboating, and looked like a cat toying with the mouse he's about to eat. I said that as soon as the fight was over. It clearly showed that Leites didn't deserve to be in the octagon with him, but letting it go to a decision was ridiculous on Silva's part.

As I said back then, I completely understand not wanting to take a chance and get caught, but when you've proven for 20 minutes that the guy can't touch you, what is there to be afraid of? Champions don't put forth just enough effort to win. They beat people. Silva didn't beat Leites. He just did more. This is why I'm pulling for Forrest Griffin at UFC101. There are several guys in the UFC who need to be knocked down a peg. Silva is one. Lesnar is another. And BJ Penn is the third. Hopefully Griffin and Florian can start the process.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']He means Leites (although the fact that he couldn't remember his name speaks volumes for what a "memorable" performance Leites gave, haha). And no, I think Silva was showboating, and looked like a cat toying with the mouse he's about to eat. I said that as soon as the fight was over. It clearly showed that Leites didn't deserve to be in the octagon with him, but letting it go to a decision was ridiculous on Silva's part.

As I said back then, I completely understand not wanting to take a chance and get caught, but when you've proven for 20 minutes that the guy can't touch you, what is there to be afraid of? Champions don't put forth just enough effort to win. They beat people. Silva didn't beat Leites. He just did more. This is why I'm pulling for Forrest Griffin at UFC101. There are several guys in the UFC who need to be knocked down a peg. Silva is one. Lesnar is another. And BJ Penn is the third. Hopefully Griffin and Florian can start the process.[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you said except about BJ Penn. While a dick I hope he dismantles Kenny Florian. That guy has always pissed me off, something about him makes me hate his guts.
 
[quote name='cgarb84']I agree with everything you said except about BJ Penn. While a dick I hope he dismantles Kenny Florian. That guy has always pissed me off, something about him makes me hate his guts.[/QUOTE]

Haha, well, even though Florian is from Boston (and I'm a born New Yorker), I still like the guy. I think part of it is just that he's always such an underdog. Even looking at him, you wouldn't think he could beat your ass. I like how hard he works too. I'm not sure how confident I am that he'll beat Penn, but like I said, he's a perennial underdog, and I'll be rooting for him.
 
[quote name='whiptcracker']I think it sort of sucks that the UFC is trying harder for Lesnar to fight Fedor than they did for Couture.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree, but the situation at the time was unfortunate in that Fedor had more open options and his handlers would not agree to multi-fight UFC exclusivity and Dana wouldn't make a deal without it. I think after this Affliction fight that the market has contracted to the point where UFC is the only real money option for him, multiple fight exclusivity be damned.

I would be frightened to put a 2-year-older Randy in with Fedor, except that it is Randy and we've seen him pull miracles out before. Not that I think he'd win, but I don't think he'd be destroyed. At least I hope he wouldn't. :pray:
 
[quote name='cgarb84']I agree with everything you said except about BJ Penn. While a dick I hope he dismantles Kenny Florian. That guy has always pissed me off, something about him makes me hate his guts.[/QUOTE]

Haha, well, even though Florian is from Boston (and I'm a born New Yorker), I still like the guy. I think part of it is just that he's always such an underdog. Even looking at him, you wouldn't think he could beat your ass. I like how hard he works too. I'm not sure how confident I am that he'll beat Penn, but like I said, he's a perennial underdog, and I'll be rooting for him.
 
[quote name='whiptcracker']I just hate his nickname. KenFlo?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's not the best nickname. But I put it about on par with Hendo for Dan Henderson.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Since you seem to have a time machine, can you tell me who wins the World Series this year too? You can't just say NOBODY can beat Brock. He's looked very dominant in his last couple of fights, but we've never seen him take a shot either. If you get somebody who's strong and can neutralize his wrestling (ie. Carwin), you might be surprised.

What if Carwin gets Brock on his back? What happens then? I think at this point, you could say Lesnar's OFFENSE is dominant, but his defense is more untested than Carwin's is. In the Gonzaga fight alone, we saw Carwin get off his back and knock him out.



All this proves is exactly how dominant Carwin has been. I'll admit, a lot of the names on that list are nobodies, but you can't argue with the results. 11 wins is still impressive, and plenty of guys have gotten title shots without rolling off 11 straight wins. I'm not saying Carwin will definitely beat Lesnar. But to say he doesn't have a chance just shows what a man crush you have on Brock.[/QUOTE]


Hahahaha, yes my "man crush" may infact be showing through "o great one" but it wont destract Brock from destroying anything the UFC has to offer right now.

And the Mets win the world series...place your bets
 
Silva better not take Forrest for granted. He is one fighter I don't count out of any fight. I give whoever wins out of Cain vs Carwin at least a shot against Lesnar.

Anyone think Mac Danzig is in danger of being let go? 3 loses in row but not cans(Miller, Neer, & Guida).

Anyone think Stephan Bonnar is in danger of being let go by the UFC? I know he fought in what many feel is the most important fight in UFC history. However, he has been on a losing streak lately and recently got beat by Mark Coleman. He is right at 5-5 in the UFC right now however which is not bad.
 
bonnar has lost two in a row. i didnt see the coleman fight so i cant say but i heard it was a competitive fight. he lost to jon jones, but that guy is a monster so i doubt theyll hold it against him. i dont see him being cut unless he starts looking bad. maybe loses 2-3 more in a row.
danzig isnt great but hes not bad. he doesnt get finished. he doesnt get dominated and hes an ultimate fighter. i hear rumors of tryign to force him to cut and move to the wec featherweight div.
hes a small 155.
 
[quote name='paz9x']danzig isnt great but hes not bad. he doesnt get finished. he doesnt get dominated and hes an ultimate fighter. i hear rumors of tryign to force him to cut and move to the wec featherweight div.
hes a small 155.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a great idea. The biggest thing I've always hated about TUF is that guys fight WAY out of their natural weight class. It still boggles my mind that Mike Swick competed at Light Heavyweight and Kenny Florian at Middleweight...some 35 and 30 pounds over where they are now. That's insane!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I still stand by what I said: give him 2-3 losses, and he'll quit and cry about how it was everyone's fault but his own. Hell, listen to him frame the discussion of his loss to Mir. He doesn't talk about a "mistake," he constantly refers to his error as a "gift" he "gave" to Mir. Which takes away some of the responsibility for such a basic screwup.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I think Brock was booed tremendously on his UFC debut, and rightly so. And I was right there with the crowd, as I have always hated Brock Lesnar. I thought Brock was a pompous cry baby and I thought it was hilarious that he thought he could damage a UFC fighter in the least bit. That was one of the first times I was shown to be wrong in my opinion of how a match would play out in the UFC (I personally think it's easy to know who is going to win many of the matches between the big name guys and have rarely been wrong). I was absolutely blown away at the way Brock just destroyed Mir so fast. Then he made a rookie mistake and lost quickly. But immediately following the match and for months afterwards he gave Frank credit for taking advantage of his inexperience. He didn't resort to tantrums like you suggest. After the match he was gracious to the crowd and he again blew me away with how nice he was being.

I missed his next fight, but saw the fight against Couture. The same thing happened. The fans brought down the house for the MMA god Couture, but boooed incessantly for Lesnar (this time I was against the crowd and for Lesnar for the first time ever). But again, Lesnar was a nice guy in the end and he understood why the crowd was booing and gave props to Randy.

Then you have Mir talking so much crap against the guy before this fight for so long, even calling him no better than his little sister. You have the MMA fans still against him, talking all sorts of crap about how he is "only" a pro wrestler. Of course he is going to be ticked off. The guy is a genuine hot head and he had tried so hard to be against his nature for so long. Honestly, when he cut his promo after beating Mir's face inside out, I was cheering. Not because I think it was appropriate or the right thing to do, because it wasn't. I was happy that a smug fool like Mir got destroyed and that the fans were getting what they deserved (and you should know that I previously loved Mir before the lead up to this fight).

Lesnar got propelled to the top of the WWE without earning it. He was then treated as a princess and never earned what he had already been given. He then turned his back on the fans who had done nothing but support his undeserved rise and treated them like crap. For that he was a jerk and deserved to be hated.

He may have been undeserving of a quick rise to fame in MMA in both yours and my eyes. But once he got there, no one can doubt that he has both paid his dues and shown that he deserves his spot now. There is no man on earth who can best Randy Couture and Frank Mir in hand to hand combat and not have done what was necessary to deserve the wins. The cry baby Brock Lesnar has worked hard and deserves to be on his throne.

That being said, I do still think he's probably a spoiled brat and have to agree with you that if anyone ever dethrones him and if he is kept off the throne longer than momentarily, he will go crying back to Minnesota.



As for sportsmanship, as a lot of people have been bringing up, I guess I have a very different view of the definition than most of you. I consider how Brock has behaved in the UFC until this weekend to be very sportsman like. I think it is a very low caliber of person who behaves over the top like Mir did before this match. Sure, I expect a little smack talking, but not rude and thug like commentary of the upcoming opponent. That is why I have always hated Tito Ortiz. His behavior before a match and then his shirts and pantomime displays after a win are just juvenile. On the other hand, when someone behaves like Tito or Frank for so long and then you pull the horseshoe out of their rear and beat them over the head with it, I feel you deserve to shove their own words and behavior back in their face. I do think Brock was a little too crude and he shouldn't offend sponsors, but oh well. He swallowed his pride and did the right thing in the end. But I do think that Frank Mir and the a-hole fans don't have the right to act as they have and for that I applaud what Brock did.

I am a native Las Vegan and still claim it as home. I say this just because I noticed someone said something to the effect that the crowd had the right to be rude to Brock because Mir is from Vegas, which is utter BS. I am a huge Jazz fan. But I absolutely hate the way Jazz fans act and treat opponents (and Derek Fisher).
 
[quote name='paz9x']bonnar has lost two in a row. i didnt see the coleman fight so i cant say but i heard it was a competitive fight. he lost to jon jones, but that guy is a monster so i doubt theyll hold it against him. i dont see him being cut unless he starts looking bad. maybe loses 2-3 more in a row.
danzig isnt great but hes not bad. he doesnt get finished. he doesnt get dominated and hes an ultimate fighter. i hear rumors of tryign to force him to cut and move to the wec featherweight div.
hes a small 155.[/QUOTE]

It was competitive but still a UD & against a very old fighter(however it was the most competitive coleman has been in years). Yea I would certainly not hold Jones against him. Yes very true I had the same discussion with a friend. Danzig seems better suited for a lower weight class.
 
Bonnar really has never beaten anyone worthwhile. The biggest win he has is a controversial split decision over Keith Jardine. Personally, between his poor record, and his positive steriod test, I say let him go. If he hasn't gotten any better by now, he never will.
 
i feel bad for stephen. things were all going good for him until his trainer/mentor died when he needed him most. he's never been in it since then.

carwin vs. cain is an awesome fight...one of the only awesome fights that can be made in the ufc hw division. if i could have my way the ufc hw division would have fedor, barnett, and arlovski back. so many interesting fights with those 3 added to the roster.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Who said it was ok?[/QUOTE]

I said it was okay. You quoted my post but couldn't read it?

If it wasn't okay, I would have expected the plethora of outraged posts to follow in Jackson's wake. Tacit approval is still approval, ergo it's okay.

[quote name='One4Deuce']Looks pretty hot. Gotta love Rampage... never a dull moment.[/QUOTE]

Ooops, not so tacit anymore!
 
[quote name='Fanboy']I said it was okay. You quoted my post but couldn't read it?

If it wasn't okay, I would have expected the plethora of outraged posts to follow in Jackson's wake. Tacit approval is still approval, ergo it's okay.



Ooops, not so tacit anymore![/QUOTE]

You're an idiot. Go jerk off to your John Cena posters.
 
Nate, I'm not sure that guy is even a wrestling fan (though I only read the posts you quoted). But really, you should ease up on the insults directed at wrestling fans. 2 of your good CAG friends (at least 2) are intelligent wrestling fans.

Also, we jerk off to Maria Kannelis, Kelly Kelly, and Alicia Fox posters.

Did anyone catch the 4+ hour DREAM 10 event that aired at midnight Pacific time on HDNet? I have it on my DVR to watch later tonight, probably.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Nate, I'm not sure that guy is even a wrestling fan (though I only read the posts you quoted). But really, you should ease up on the insults directed at wrestling fans. 2 of your good CAG friends (at least 2) are intelligent wrestling fans.

Also, we jerk off to Maria Kannelis, Kelly Kelly, and Alicia Fox posters.[/QUOTE]

Ehh...I'm pretty sure he's a WWE fan (not that it means anything. Keep reading). After UFC100 when people were upset about Brock flipping off the crowd and insulting Bud Light, this clown was calling me a "mark" and said I was getting "worked" because it was "part of the show". Since then, he's just been trolling, pointing out the MMA "bad boys" and insinuating that fans are hypocrites for only being upset with "a former pro wrestler".

I know you and Gary are fans of wrestling. I don't have a problem with intelligent wrestling fans. The key word there being intelligent (see: a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares).

I'd be hard pressed to call a person intelligent when they can't recognize the difference in how you act toward opponents, paying crowds, sponsors, etc. when you're putting on a show (and generally, playing a character) vs how you act when you're competing in an organized, sanctioned sporting event (what would happen if Sidney Crosby flipped off the crowd in Detroit when they were booing after the Pens won the Stanley Cup, haha. Can you even imagine that?).

I took issue with this guy because he took these practices and marketing ploys from the world of scripted entertainment, and was telling me I needed to accept them in what I know to be MMA. That just wasn't cool with me.

As far as any WWE directed comments toward him, I was just trying to speak to him in a language he'd understand. Notice I didn't say "go be a typical WWE fan and jerk off to John Cena". I just chose a person that I thought he'd personally enjoy. I know this is a hot button issue right now, but I tried not to generalize all WWE fans in one group. Trust me when I say this attack had a personal touch. :)
 
Gotta say Tito vs. Babalu is one im dyn to see. Barnett, Fedor cant wait. One other thing who other than myself wants Aleksander to get his shit together get back with Red Devil and go toe to toe with Arlovski.
 
I caught Dream 10. A bunch of good entertaining fights. Except for the Aoki one, though I am a fan of his. But the tourny was exciting to watch and seeing Filho make a comeback to hopefully his former self was great too.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Barnett is out of the Fedor fight.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/update-fedor-barnett-bout-in-jeopardy-18663

Personally, I'd like to see Belfort step in as opposed to Lashley. It's way, way too early for Lashley to be in a match like this. However, I'm not really sure about the weight difference with Vitor and Fedor. Who would you guys like to see step in?[/QUOTE]


What a letdown, I was going to order this, not now. I wonder what Fedor will do after Aug.1? What's your opinions on where he will go?
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Barnett is out of the Fedor fight.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/update-fedor-barnett-bout-in-jeopardy-18663

Personally, I'd like to see Belfort step in as opposed to Lashley. It's way, way too early for Lashley to be in a match like this. However, I'm not really sure about the weight difference with Vitor and Fedor. Who would you guys like to see step in?[/QUOTE]

Ah, that sucks. Belfort has busted his ass to become a top contender at 185. His goal should be gunning for Anderson Silva. Not screwing around with his weight to fight Fedor.

Affliction's main goal in finding a replacement for Barnett should be giving Fedor a good fight. Otherwise, consider him gone. Throwing Lashley at him would look like nothing more than a tune up for Brock. If Arlovski hadn't lost to Brett Rogers, I would have liked to see a rematch of that fight...but he did. Hell, maybe Brett Rogers would be a decent opponent.

I don't know. No matter what they do, it just feels like a fight to "get out of the way" so Fedor can get to the UFC and have some real fights again. If this doesn't show him he needs some real competition, nothing will.
 
Well just read those stories on sherdog. Very dissapointed in Barnett what's this his second or third time getting busted. As for Tito back in UFC he said there's a slim a chance he would go back to the UFC. I don't see Dana being very forgiving or the Fertittas giving Tito the pay day he wants. Even though he had a draw with the former champ and almost submitted the new champ.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']Fedor won't go to the UFC. He'll go back to Japan and make aton of money beating nobodies.[/QUOTE]

I hope not. This is probably the only time I would wish for Brock to talk a bunch of shit to get Fedor to sign. To me, it's a "whatever it takes" move. Or Dana should work out a "sign & trade" type of move with Affliction where they re-sign Fedor to a new contract, and then Dana purchases all the contracts of Affliction's fighters. If Fedor ducks Lesnar, and goes to fight for DREAM or some shit, I'll lose a lot of respect for him.
 
The problem is, Fedor doesn't give a shit who he faces or how he is viewed. Fedor doesn't care if he is considered the best MMA fighter in the world or not, he just cares about his payday, and getting everything he wants. If he cared about fighting top-level competition he would have been in the UFC by now. I will be truely shocked if he ever ends up in the UFC.
 
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[quote name='Pavel6969']The problem is, Fedor doesn't give a shit who he faces or how he is viewed. Fedor doesn't care if he is considered the best MMA fighter in the world or not, he just cares about his payday, and getting everything he wants. If he cared about fighting top-level competition he would have been in the UFC by now. I will be truely shocked if he ever ends up in the UFC.[/QUOTE]

Eh, but he never really has had anybody call him out either. Yeah, Randy wanted to fight him, but there wasn't much heat behind that. Since Brock loves playing the bad guy so much, let him disrespect Mother Russia a bit and see if he can get Fedor to come out and play. Even if he doesn't care about his "legacy", Fedor still seems like a proud man. If Lesnar starts getting diabolical, I can't imagine him just shrugging it off. I could be wrong though...but I hope not :)
 
Heiwa Dream 10 was awesome! I wish there were more asian fighters fighting in UFC. Also, where do you guys watch pride? I only watch HDnet for my MMA fix.
 
Dream 10 was awesome. It was great to see Filho back and looking more like his old self. That head kick to end the tourney was vicious, too. I personally own several Pride dvds, so I watch those and I rent them from my local Hastings.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']The problem is, Fedor doesn't give a shit who he faces or how he is viewed. Fedor doesn't care if he is considered the best MMA fighter in the world or not, he just cares about his payday, and getting everything he wants. If he cared about fighting top-level competition he would have been in the UFC by now. I will be truely shocked if he ever ends up in the UFC.[/QUOTE]

Can't blame him.

He knows what he's worth and he isn't getting any younger. He shouldn't be forced to accept a smaller amount of cash or to quit Sambo so he can dominate everybody in the UFC :lol:

- edit Here's a new interview with Fedor explaining why he hasn't signed with the UFC

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/06/04/fedor-ufcs-offer-didnt-make-sense/

Basically, if he won the championship, his contract would have become indefinite until he lost a fight and than they would have the option to drop him that day or reduce his purse due to a poor performance. Also the whole he couldn't do Sambo anymore and he would be stuck waiting for the UFC to call him for a fight.
 
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Damn...I thought August was going to be a hell of a month for MMA, but now everything is falling apart. Not sure about Fedor's contract, but I would think it would have an expiration date. So, he's probably still under contract through August 1st. If Dana is serious about going after Fedor though, he'll drop all the crazy requirements. As long as the contract isn't guaranteed money (like in MLB where players like Carl Pavano can earn $40 million by being "injured" for 4 years), I don't know why he'd care.

Make it so that Fedor gets paid a certain amount for each fight (and more if he wins the title). Let him do his sambo, but if he gets hurt outside of UFC, he misses fights and doesn't get paid. If he has the belt and is not able to defend it in a reasonable amount of time, strip him of it and make him earn it again. I know Dana likes to have control of his fighters, but there's really not much for him to lose here. I'm not saying he should cater to Fedor, but just make sure there are consequences if the guy does something stupid.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']Affliction is officially dead, just signed up with the UFC again.[/QUOTE]

It's incredible hearing people blaming Josh Barnett for Affliction's downfall. Clearly, Barnett is dumb as hell to still be taking steroids after already being busted once, but if Affliction couldn't find a replacement, to AT LEAST make the show happen, there were wayyyy deeper problems going on in the background.

They must have barely been getting by by the skin of their teeth. Considering how quickly all this happened, it makes me wonder if there were thoughts that the event might not happen anyway...before Barnett was busted. I just can't see one failed drug test making an entire organization say "Ok, we give up!"

It's funny how quickly hard feelings get resolved and Affliction goes right back to UFC though. Obviously, it's all about money, but maybe it'll show Fedor that MMA is a fickle business, and the UFC is one of the only companies who can promise him work.
 
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