MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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It's just crazy that in this one fight, Cain answered every doubt people had going into the fight.

Can he stop the takedown? Check!

If he does get taken down, can he get back up? Check!

Can he outstrike Lesnar? Check!

Can he take Lesnar down? Check!

Does he have enough power to finish Lesnar? Check and double freaking check!!!

Fight of the year!
 
Didn't see that one quite coming the way it did with Lesnar just being dominated the way he was.Happy I didn't bet on Lesnar although I was somewhat confident he was going to win but instead he ended up getting his ass kicked.

On the bright side Lesnar vs. Mir III should be good and one would think it would do even a bigger buyrate then this ppv with it being more of a grudge match and the rubber match.

Hopefully Shields gets the weight cut better off next time against GSP then he did tonight.

With Diego moving back down to Lightweight now with a win maybe they can finally do Florian vs. Sanchez II.

Cain vs. Dos Santos should be a good fight.Carwin also seems like he might be a guy able to beat Cain possibly.I only say that because of the Kongo vs. Cain fight where Kongo had him rocked every round but couldn't stop the takedowns while he had him on wobbley feet and I'm sure someone like Carwin could prevent the takedowns and he seems to have even more KO power then Kongo but that would all be assuming he can actually finish it in the first round and it doesn't go any further.

I wouldn't mind seeing Gonzaga vs. Kongo for their next fight.The two biggest UFC Heavyweight Gatekeepers battling it out.

Was there really no Tito excuse or can we expect one in the following hours or next few days?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Does he have enough power to finish Lesnar? Check and double freaking check!!![/QUOTE]

I was always under the assumption he threw "baby" punches...:roll:
 
Before the fight started I kept thinking to myself. "If Carwinn didn't have the power to knock Lesnar out, there's no way Cain can." His punches do not look lethal at all, but I believe it is because he throws so many and they all connect, that lead to the TKO. If you're getting hit that many times in the face, eventually they're gonna stop it
 
[quote name='xpag406']Well if you should start betting, I should buy a Lotto ticket tomorrow (5 for 5 Main Card 6 for 7 overall)... in fact I think I will![/QUOTE]

get on it
 
Poor Lesnar got his shit kicked in tonight. Not really looking forward to Cain Vs 2 Saints cause I'm not a fan of either of them.

Shields is super technical but boring as shit. I understand that grappling is badass and all but that doesn't mean I wanna see it for 15 minutes straight.

Also...Sanchez didn't say his catch phrase ...=(
 
Velasquez made Lesnar his Fourthmeal.

I have mocked Diego Sanchez in excess over the last few years, but he won me back as a fan after that most impressive comeback against a very tough, and Joe Silva hated, Paulo Thiago. I always cheer for Thiago, but Sanchez has that poor man's Georges St-Pierre attitude that is always welcomed in MMA. Yes, (Yes! Yes! Yes!) he's very eccentric, but he has always been focused on being the best fighter he could be.

I wish Matt Hamill had a more aggressive fighting approach. I think Hamill would be highly-dominate if he showed a little more aggression. He and Michael Bisping need a Part 2 in their series. Hamill should have won the first fight, but I think Bisping would also win the second. Bisping may not have "knock-out power" but he's evolved since he first entered the Octagon. Against Yoshihiro Akiyama, he displayed confident striking in the pocket, and a willingness to exchange strikes against top talent is something he always needed to check off his To-do list.

The weight cut appeared to have really hurt Jake Shields. He looked like a shell of his former self. What is with fighters ignoring their strengths? Gabriel Gonzaga, Demian Maia, and Martin Kampmann: Stop dicking around. Even a half-dead Jake Shields had enough wherewithal to control Kampmann in grappling. Shields' grappling is mesmerizing. His skill is so impressive, and he's so active, that I do not mind watching 15 minutes of grappling. Shields ate two powerful knee strikes to the face, looked hurt, and yet, when Kampmann had the opportunity to stand and strike, he tried to grapple. I cheered for Shields, but found it odd that Kampmann chose to not strike with Shields. If Shields wishes to be competitive against Georges St-Pierre, he'll need to become comfortable at 170 pounds. It's a shame for Shields that his next fight is a title fight, as I think he needs one more fight at 170 to acclimate his body to the weight class and its demands. If this version of Jake Shields shows up against St-Pierre, St-Pierre will govern the entire match with flashes of grappling command from Shields.

Cain Velasquez's knock-out of Big Nog is still an impressive, and frightening, feat. Velasquez is quick and powerful with a solid wrestling base--yet I chose Brock Lesnar to win, as Lesnar has monster strength and a solid wrestling base. Lesnar loss because Velasquez has superior speed and striking technique. In his first two years, Brock has dominated with his monster strength and wrestling alone. Now, he should try to evolve as a fighter. Brock Lesnar with a wrestling base and kick-boxing prowess would be terrifying. Who in the world would want to exchange technical strikes with Lesnar? I expect to see a much improved Lesnar in his next fight. Lesnar still has a lot to learn, and now he'll get to show the world how great he will be.

Just for the record, Junior dos Santos is good at the two-dimensional fighting he does. However, Cain Velasquez is better and far more balanced. Velasquez will run a train over dos Santos, and probably face Brock Lesnar in a rematch. Lesnar's tune-up fight should be against Frank Mir. I have given up on Mir ever fully-utilizing his potential. So, I hope Lesnar exhibits better striking, and knocks out Mir.
 
[quote name='AK85']I was always under the assumption he threw "baby" punches...:roll:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, his striking hasn't improved at all since he fought Kongo. Nobody's ever said anything that became untrue a year and a half later. It's not like he worked to get better or anything...:roll:
 
Got home in time to see the last 2 fights live on the net. All I have to say is DOWN GOES LESNAR, DOWN GOES LESNAR!

I am a Lesnar fan but he's not looked that good 2 fights in a row, he started believing his own baddest man alive hype maybe. Velasquez is a bad man!
 
Mike Goldberg said it was a matter of horsepower being defeated by technique and I couldn't agree more. The fear had to be setting in Brock's mind after he was taken down and rear mounted. That had to be the last position he expected to be in. Props to Velasquez for fighting the perfect fight versus Lesnar.

Also, I need the Brock Barrel Roll GIF stat.
 
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Wow...keeps getting uglier. Vince McMahon makes an offer to Brock to "fight" The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

http://pwspoilers.com/confirmed-wwe-offers-brock-lesnar-a-deal-to-face-the-undertaker=1103

Gotta say, if he does this, he loses all credibility and respect he was building and is simply an attention whore. You can't talk about respecting the sport and craving the competition and then do a fucking work for your ex/future employer at your current employer's pay-per-view. If he's that embarrassed after one loss that he needs to run back to wrestling, then he really had no heart to begin with.

Add this to the fact that Brock told Dana he wanted some "extended time off" and it appears that the writing may be on the wall here.
 
Considering what he pulled when he left WWE to pursue an NFL career, the scenario of him jumping back onto the WWE ship when things get rough in UFC isn't out of the realm of possibility.
 
Jesus, there are a lot of fickle people that watch MMA. Brock gets his ass kicked, and suddenly, he was either 1) Never that good, 2) Heartless, or 3) Going back to the WWE. In matter of two fights, everyone went from talking about Cain's "pillow punches" to being all over his dick. I'm not a Brock fan, but the shit that he's taking for this fight is ridiculous. He has said absolutely nothing about going back to wrestling, and everyone is already talking shit. I can't help but wonder if his illness took something out of him. He hasn't looked the same since he came back.
 
WrestleZone exclusively spoke with two prominent backstage sources at the WWE Bragging Rights pay per view last night, and there is nothing short of a "state of confusion" in WWE regarding the Brock Lesnar/Undertaker brief stare down after Brock lost the UFC Title to Cain Velasquez on Saturday night.
"No one knows what's really going on!" a WWE writer told WZ tonight after the pay per view. "We've been discussing what to do with 'Taker at Wrestlemania, but Brock Lesnar's name has never come up. Now Vince is walking around with this smile on his face like he has this in the bag, and we're all looking at each other wondering who knows what."
To make matters even worse, the WWE writer told me tonight, "it's going to end up like WCW here, in that the writers are all going to be paranoid about each other, wondering who is and who isn't in on the angle. That shit belongs in TNA."
 
[quote name='dkreegz515']WrestleZone exclusively spoke with two prominent backstage sources at the WWE Bragging Rights pay per view last night, and there is nothing short of a "state of confusion" in WWE regarding the Brock Lesnar/Undertaker brief stare down after Brock lost the UFC Title to Cain Velasquez on Saturday night.
"No one knows what's really going on!" a WWE writer told WZ tonight after the pay per view. "We've been discussing what to do with 'Taker at Wrestlemania, but Brock Lesnar's name has never come up. Now Vince is walking around with this smile on his face like he has this in the bag, and we're all looking at each other wondering who knows what."
To make matters even worse, the WWE writer told me tonight, "it's going to end up like WCW here, in that the writers are all going to be paranoid about each other, wondering who is and who isn't in on the angle. That shit belongs in TNA."[/QUOTE]

i think brocks going to show up at wrestlemania.
brock and undertaker are supposedly real life friends which makes
that weird interaction at ufc 121 even more odd.
I think brock likes money and im sure him doing whatever it is at wrestlemania
with undertaker is going to make him a lot of it.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Jesus, there are a lot of fickle people that watch MMA. Brock gets his ass kicked, and suddenly, he was either 1) Never that good, 2) Heartless, or 3) Going back to the WWE. In matter of two fights, everyone went from talking about Cain's "pillow punches" to being all over his dick. I'm not a Brock fan, but the shit that he's taking for this fight is ridiculous. He has said absolutely nothing about going back to wrestling, and everyone is already talking shit. I can't help but wonder if his illness took something out of him. He hasn't looked the same since he came back.[/QUOTE]

You don't agree that running back to pretend fighting after being embarrassed and losing his belt would be at all weak? I'm not saying he's going to do that, but considering the known factors, we can't just deny it as a possibility. Honestly, as much as I dislike Brock, I really hope he's better than that. I never wanted him to lose because of who he is. I wanted him to lose to create some real competition and rivalry in the heavyweight division. If he just runs away, that isn't going to happen.

Not to put down WWE, but I actually think Brock owes himself more than that at this point. It would be a shame to just throw out all the work he has done to go for a money/attention grab. And I'm pretty damn sure that if he took the opportunity to jump back to the WWE, it would burn a bridge with Dana White (who reportedly, he hasn't been getting along with anyway). Saying he "hasn't looked the same since his illness" is a bit of a cop out though. He showed improved skills against Carwin and submitted him for God's sake. He just finally ran into a guy who could beat him. It happens to everybody.

None of this is to say Brock IS heartless. But IF he responds to his biggest loss by changing careers again (which I honestly hope he doesn't), what does that say about him?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']You don't agree that running back to pretend fighting after being embarrassed and losing his belt would be at all weak? I'm not saying he's going to do that, but considering the known factors, we can't just deny it as a possibility. Honestly, as much as I dislike Brock, I really hope he's better than that. I never wanted him to lose because of who he is. I wanted him to lose to create some real competition and rivalry in the heavyweight division. If he just runs away, that isn't going to happen.

Not to put down WWE, but I actually think Brock owes himself more than that at this point. It would be a shame to just throw out all the work he has done to go for a money/attention grab. And I'm pretty damn sure that if he took the opportunity to jump back to the WWE, it would burn a bridge with Dana White (who reportedly, he hasn't been getting along with anyway). Saying he "hasn't looked the same since his illness" is a bit of a cop out though. He showed improved skills against Carwin and submitted him for God's sake. He just finally ran into a guy who could beat him. It happens to everybody.

None of this is to say Brock IS heartless. But IF he responds to his biggest loss by changing careers again (which I honestly hope he doesn't), what does that say about him?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree with your point about that. I'm just saying, everyone seems to be all over him about going back to WWE, even though he has never even mentioned that. In his post-fight interview, he seemed pretty humble and he seemed to handle the loss well. As far as improved skills against Carwin, I don't think so. That's just my opinion. His worst habit is backing straight up when he gets punched in the face. Hands down, chin up. If it happened all over again, I think that Carwin would easily beat Brock, just like Cain did. While the arm triangle was nice, it would never happen against someone who hadn't gassed out.
 
A move back to the WWF wouldn't make much sense, and would probably be more of a detriment to either path. I think he'll be fine, the guy is still a freak of nature and a top contender.

It's like you always hear, if you're not losing any fights, you're fighting the wrong people.

A big part of the mystique is gone though, as we've now seen a fighter with more training handle him rather easily. Cain pretty much followed Carwin's approach, and it is now obvious (for the time being) that you can't be scared to get in Lesnar's face. I think a lot of his wins were boosted by the intimidation of fighting a guy that manhandled opponents on a regular basis. Overall, it's good for the sport and I'd like to see him come back stronger.

How'd did everyone feel about it being Mexican night? I'm first generation American (Mexican-American on a form) and the whole thing seemed rather forced, it didn't even cross my mind that a good number of the matches involved Hispanic fighters. As much as I think Tito is a douche, I did appreciate him carrying the two-sided flag. Cain as the first Mexican heavy-weight? His wrestling background is due to being born in the States; honor your heritage but be grateful of your opportunities. Pretty sure that hype is all Dana though...
 
UFC is trying real hard to get popular in Mexico given their boxing heritage. It was all marketing, and may seem forced, but I wasn't bothered by it really. But then again, I'm not Mexican so IDK, maybe some were bothered by how hard the UFC was trying.
 
Sanchez/Thiago may be fight of the year...it was really really awesome.

Shields is a boring guy that isn't even that impressive of a grappler honestly. Aoki is everything I want to see in a MMA submission artist. Shields is just a wrestler, nothing more.

Cain must have really saw how easy it was for Carwin to get Lesnar to buckle under pressure. Carwin/Cain is a fight I can't wait to see.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see Lesnar go back to pro wrestling for a super fight with the Undertaker for the big pay while he's taking time off and relaxing. Its not like its real you know.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I wouldn't mind seeing lesnar fighting the undertaker at wrestlemania. Why pass up what would most likely be a huge paycheck?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']I wouldn't be surprised to see Lesnar go back to pro wrestling for a super fight with the Undertaker for the big pay while he's taking time off and relaxing. Its not like its real you know.[/QUOTE]

I just think if he goes back, he's done in UFC. At a time when MMA is pushing for mainstream acceptance and petitioning for a bid as an olympic sport, having one of the top stars bounce back and forth, blurring the line between real fighting and "fake fighting" doesn't really help the cause. If that's what Brock is interested in, then he's not the horse to get you there. Simple as that.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']Sanchez/Thiago may be fight of the year...it was really really awesome.[/QUOTE]

It was a cool fight, but the part that left me a bit sour was all of Sanchez's backriding; he just didn't know what to do in that position. It just came across as comical, if you suck at a certain position, why keep going back?

Thank God it counter-acted the boring ass Shield's fight though.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I just think if he goes back, he's done in UFC. At a time when MMA is pushing for mainstream acceptance and petitioning for a bid as an olympic sport, having one of the top stars bounce back and forth, blurring the line between real fighting and "fake fighting" doesn't really help the cause. If that's what Brock is interested in, then he's not the horse to get you there. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, how would it work as an Olympic sport? With the down time needed between each fight to heal/train, I just can't see that happening.
 
I imagine the rules would be altered in a way similar to Olympic boxing: bigger gloves, restrictions on strikes, rewards for fighting technically, shorter rounds and bouts, etc.

Worst case scenario: Gold Medalist Jake Shields. Does America cheer?
 
1. props on the ippo avvy
2. gold medalist shields = gold medalist in sharp shooting. nobody cares.
3. olympic acceptance doesn't make all sports better, that's for sure.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']If it happened all over again, I think that Carwin would easily beat Brock, just like Cain did. While the arm triangle was nice, it would never happen against someone who hadn't gassed out.[/QUOTE]
I think you could really make the argument that if the ref stopped it in the first round of the Carwin fight then no one would be complaining.It was enough to earn a stoppage but the ref let it go on a bit longer and Lesnar got lucky with Carwin's gas tank.Unfortunately it doesn't seem Brock could hope for the same against Cain with that epic gas tank and pace of his.

His biggest problem seems to be not being that great at taking a punch, he just seems to turtle up and prays he'll survive till the end of the round.I agree with you though,people seem to be taking a shit all over him now that he lost.He's still one of the best even though he is lacking in some area's like most noteable his striking defense in his last two fights.He could really use a better training camp and just increasing his workload above the normal 2 hours a day for him.I think he could really fit into Xtreme Couture pretty well if he would be willing to get help and be away from his family but he doesn't seem like he is all that willing to do those things to be the best.

Personally I'm starting to think Taker is working people over the whole thing with it being reported WWE sent out some feelers to Brock about doing wrestlemaina.With Taker being somewhat vague and asking if he "wants to do it" could mean a bunch of things like the reported match and just trying to be in a character and he seems like hes almost about to let out a smile after asked what that was about.Everyone else seemed to think Taker and Brock were friends before the interview so I'm leaning closer to it being a work.
 
If you ask me, this is all being overblown. I don't think it was a plant, and to me it seems like a legitimate personal beef.

I think a lot of people speculating that it was a plant (not necessarily people in this thread) are not familiar with Brock's history in the WWE. He wasn't the most popular dude in the locker room.

This whole thing will blow over.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']If you ask me, this is all being overblown. I don't think it was a plant, and to me it seems like a legitimate personal beef.

I think a lot of people speculating that it was a plant (not necessarily people in this thread) are not familiar with Brock's history in the WWE. He wasn't the most popular dude in the locker room.

This whole thing will blow over.[/QUOTE]

That's not hard to believe, considering what a D-bag he used to be.
 
[quote name='Magiblaze']He could really use a better training camp and just increasing his workload above the normal 2 hours a day for him.I think he could really fit into Xtreme Couture pretty well if he would be willing to get help and be away from his family but he doesn't seem like he is all that willing to do those things to be the best.[/QUOTE]

That's what I love about him.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']That's what I love about him.[/QUOTE]

Well, then enjoy watching him be Cain's personal bitch because he's not going to get any better without making a bigger commitment. It's what real professional athletes do.
 
That's fine with me. He had a rough fight, will go home, heal up, and start training to get better again. I'd rather have him get better slowly and be there for his family then do "what real professional athletes do".
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']That's fine with me. He had a rough fight, will go home, heal up, and start training to get better again. I'd rather have him get better slowly and be there for his family then do "what real professional athletes do".[/QUOTE]

He's not going to learn how to box by flying Peter Welch out once a week to show him some things. In a business based around PPVs, sure, it's nice that he's a good dad, but it's not going to make me want to watch him fight. Kimbo Slice is a good dad too, and he's also not getting any better. Let's just bring him back while we're at it.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']So brock loses once, and now you put him at the same level as kimbo slice? Your argument credibility just dropped big time, though I do get what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

The same level as Kimbo in terms of improving the skill set that he currently has, yes. Look around MMA. The fighters who keep to their small camps do not grow. Gabriel Gonzaga is a perfect example of this. I'm not insulting the guy. I'm just saying, he can't really expect much improvement sticking with what he's been doing. But yeah, maybe he doesn't care. He might not have any plans to fight again anyway.
 
n8 is harsh but correct. nothing short circuits your skill growth more than sticking to a tiny camp with low competition.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']n8 is harsh but correct.[/QUOTE]

That's just how I roll. :cool: I'm like the Jim Rome of CAG. I want my own segment. "N8 is Ir8". Hahaha, j/k.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Holy crap! He's going to look like a corpse![/QUOTE]

I agree with this. He's going to look like James Irvin at 185, maybe worse. Marcus Davis must be grasping for some success, because if he even makes the weight he will start getting KO'd and beaten up at LW with ease. I would even take a guy like Guida to beat the tiny bit of Irish Davis has in him out of him.
 
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