MMA (UFC, Strikeforce, Bellator, Invicta, etc.) Discussion Thread -- Version II

Disappointing finish from Gus. If he thinks he can take a guy's title away by getting conservative and fading down the stretch, he's an idiot. Just like in his fight with Jones, he just let DC take it in the 5th. I don't know if it's stamina or heart, but Gus just seems to break at the most critical time.
 
DarkTower80 said:
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/13792855/ufc-192-johny-hendricks-tyron-woodley-bout-called-off

Looks like it was a legitimate medical issue. Intestinal blockage and kidney stone is what is being reported.
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Due to coming into camp way to heavy and trying to cut way too much weight the last 48 hours. So it is still 100% on Hendricks being an idiot.

I really hate extreme weight cutting so I'm kind of glad that if Hendricks was going to miss the fight for a failed weight cut that he at least had to deal with painful kidney stones and bloody urine.

They'll blame a freak thing, they'll blame the nutritionist, they'll blame supplement, etc. It will never be Hendricks' fault that he came into camp too heavy or that he should fight a weight class up.

Onto the other fights - everything on the main card was pretty lackluster except the main event. Can't believe Gustaf went out there and gave away the fifth round like that. That's twice he has crumpled in the fifth round - a shame.

Gustaf stock has fallen a bit recently and I don't know where they should put him in terms of rankings or who next. He has lost 3 out of 4 with his last. He shouldn't be sniffing a title shot for again for a long time. I think he should fight Little Nog, Cummins, or someone around there net along the bottom of the Top 10. Maybe give him Shad since I have no idea what Shad has left in the tank now.

Now the question is - will Bader finally get his title shot. He already deserved much more than Gustaf, and now there is nobody else to give it to unless Jones comes back. Bader has 5 wins a row since he stumbled to Glover (a fight he was winning and almost finished Glover until he got caught in the process). It will be interesting to see if Bader gets his shot. He is always so close but never gets it. The loss to Jones, the loss to Machida, the loss to Glover. Three number one contender fights that he lost.

I don't think he will win against Cormier, but at this point there is nobody else you can give it to, unless the UFC keeps following their current way and gives out title shots on losses. Cormier lost to Jones then gets title shot. Gustaf got flatlined by Rumble and then gets a title shot. I guess by that logic it is time for DC vs Shad.

 
I'm actually interested in the Honda vs Holm coming up. I think I said it here like 6 months or a year back, but Holm is the only interesting fight out there right now (aside from the never happening Cyborg fight).

I do believe that due to Holly's boxing background and having Greg Jackson that she will be the first girl to find Rousey and not clinch, bullrush or repeatedly dive for single leg take downs (What the hell was wrong with you Miesha. Every single one send you harai goshi'd onto your head). Greg Jackson is hopefully beating into Holm that she should not get close to Rousey. Stay to the outside, box, and then if by some God awful way she gets close get underhooks and get the hell away. Even take the Gustaf way out and straight out run away with your back to her.

In terms of WMMA, I feel that is one of the biggest problems the fighters have. No gameplan whatsoever. Tate with her strong wrestling background should've tried using it to avoid clinching and grappling with Rousey, not shooting takedowns. Rousey would still be a huge favorite, but she pretty much hung herself by shooting for single legs. In prepping for judo tournaments one of the first thing that you drilled a million times was the harai goshi or uchi mata of wrestling shots. If anything I'm sure Rousey hopes that her opponents shoot for takedowns. Either they get dumped on their head or she takes their back.

Then there is Zigano. What kind of gameplan did she have. I'm going to bullrush and try to throw down the Olympic medalist. What kind of horrible thinking is that? She's a purple belt in BJJ (which is good), but not a world champion. Hell I've done jiu jitsu and judo longer than her.

 
In case anybody forgot that CM Punk is still trying to be an MMA fighter, apparently he injured his shoulder this past week in training. I guess it's nothing severe, but Duke Roufus is saying he COULD be ready to fight in 6 to 10 months... Really? REALLY?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2576207-cm-punk-injury-updates-on-ufc-stars-shoulder-and-return

The fact that he gets to pretend that he's a UFC fighter is the biggest joke in all of this. He's as much of a UFC fighter as Betty White is.

 
It's as simple as this; he's going to put asses in seats. And that's one of the best qualities to have in the business.

He may not have the athletic background you deem worthy, but it's there. From a MMA fan's standpoint he probably should have been, best case, through a TUF (he does have Gracie training), but that wouldn't get the payday that his first PPV will.

 
Yagami said:
It's as simple as this; he's going to put asses in seats. And that's one of the best qualities to have in the business.

He may not have the athletic background you deem worthy, but it's there. From a MMA fan's standpoint he probably should have been, best case, through a TUF (he does have Gracie training), but that wouldn't get the payday that his first PPV will.
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I don't mind him showing up. Might be interesting for a few minutes and get a buzz out there for the UFC.

His Brazilian Jiu Jitsu background is negligible (last I checked still a white belt) and I bet in terms of grappling any high level blue or low level purple belt would dominate him Jiu Jitsu wise (same with any competition experienced Judoka, wrestler, Samboist, etc).

He is a freakshow calling back to the Pride days (and soon to be Rizen lol). Show up make a few bucks, get asses in seat, and some PPV dollars. Pretty much a James Toney.

 
Yagami said:
It's as simple as this; he's going to put asses in seats. And that's one of the best qualities to have in the business.

He may not have the athletic background you deem worthy, but it's there. From a MMA fan's standpoint he probably should have been, best case, through a TUF (he does have Gracie training), but that wouldn't get the payday that his first PPV will.
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Who said anything about athletic background?

Do you remember James Toney vs Randy Couture? Nuff said. Yes, people will buy the PPV for the freakshow of it and because Punk is popular. But how long do you expect that to last? How many times are people going to pay to watch him get smashed before the consensus opinion is "Please, go back to WWE"?

As for his "Gracie Training", if we're going to throw a former WWE employee in the cage based on that background, Eve Torres/Gracie (Rener's wife) is probably better qualified. As the article points out, Punk will be 37 next week...and STILL might be almost a year away from taking his first fight against a scrub fighter about to be cut from the UFC. That's how half-cocked this thing is.

 
Jon Jones was reinstated today.  Not a surprise at all and no date has been set for his return but it is official now.

 
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n8rockerasu said:
As for his "Gracie Training", if we're going to throw a former WWE employee in the cage based on that background, Eve Torres/Gracie (Rener's wife) is probably better qualified.
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I do find it interesting how many old pro-wrestlers may have been MMA fighters if they were here today versus 10+ years ago.

Guys like Bad News Brown (olympic medalist), Iron Sheik, Kurt Angle, plus a host of other guys who didn't make it quite as far but were still excellent collegiate wrestlers (like the Steiner Brothers).

Back to Punk. I'll watch it, but it is completely a freak show thing. When his pedigree is BJJ and he only has a whitebelt (maybe he is up to blue now since he is training full time) I think he will be in trouble. They need to find a massive scrub for him to fight or find someone who with a wink and nod take a quick dive.

 
Woooooo! Ronda let her ego get to her and it cost her dearly. Didn't even get a post fight interview lol. Next time touch gloves and don't rush your opponent in the weigh ins!

 
Dokstarr said:
I'm actually interested in the Honda vs Holm coming up. I think I said it here like 6 months or a year back, but Holm is the only interesting fight out there right now (aside from the never happening Cyborg fight).

I do believe that due to Holly's boxing background and having Greg Jackson that she will be the first girl to find Rousey and not clinch, bullrush or repeatedly dive for single leg take downs (What the hell was wrong with you Miesha. Every single one send you harai goshi'd onto your head). Greg Jackson is hopefully beating into Holm that she should not get close to Rousey. Stay to the outside, box, and then if by some God awful way she gets close get underhooks and get the hell away. Even take the Gustaf way out and straight out run away with your back to her.
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I was even more right than I imagined. Holly Holm proved what a good game plan can do (watch and learn Tate, Zigano and the rest of you).

She did exactly as she was supposed to, and made Ronda look like an amateur.

Everyone everywhere said the Holm had no chance, shouldn't be in there, etc., but I guess she proved everyone wrong. This also just proved how far WMMA has to come along. Tonight it was a judoka versus a boxer/kickboxer where the grappler couldn't grapple. Ronda looked like a mess flopping around and charging like a bull.

This fight should not be compared to the GSP vs Serra fight. Both had the underdog win, but Holly dominated Ronda for 6 or 7 minutes. Serra landed a huge blow to KO GSP pretty much as the fight started.

I wonder if EA sports regrets putting Ronda on the cover now hah hah. Also - did Dana White look awkward or what. He buttoned and unbuttoned his jacket four times and then put his hand in his pockets four times waiting til he could leave the cage and go sulk.

Edit:

Hopefully this also stops the stupid talk of Ronda beating up Floyd Mayweather

 
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I noticed Dana in the background looking like someone kicked his dog, it was great. 

I saw somewhere that some believed that the ones in charge of UFC matchmaking thought Holm wasn't quite ready and figured they throw her to Ronda now so she could say she had already beat her, seeing that she would become a legit threat to Ronda later on. If that is the case, they clearly waited too long.

 
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Dana in the post-fight presser just seems so dejected. And pissy as hell. This is almost as entertaining as the fight.

 
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I wish RR was at the post fight, but oh well. Dana I'm sure doesn't want to be there right now, but I'm sure after he sits down and has a few drinks he will calm down and think about how much money a rematch will bring him.

 
I will be honest I thought Rousey would have won the fight easily based on the past two performance of Holm in the UFC. Holm just didn't look that great and her punches didn't look like it had power to them when she fought the two other girls before Rousey. So it was really a surprise to see that the first few punches messed up Rousey face right away in the first minute, which you can tell than that it would have been a bad game plan for Rousey to sit there and strike with Holm.

Also I thought Rousey was mentally defeated when she took that swing at Holm after the bell.

 
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Yep...I thought the same. Holm fought Raquel Pennington to a freaking split decision just earlier this year. The biggest thing Holm did was cause Ronda to do what Ronda usually does to others. Ronda came in with a TERRIBLE gameplan (even if Dana can't admit it at the post fight press conference). She may as well have been Cat Zingano going for a flying knee.

I don't know why so many champions get this crazy ego thing where they have to beat their opponent at what their opponent does best. Jon Jones was becoming this exact same way. It's literally the dumbest fight strategy you could have. GSP never did this. When he fought Nick Diaz...he took him down over and over again. When he fought Josh Koscheck...he jabbed the shit out of him. That is the mark of a true strategist and someone not driven by ego. Attack your opponent's weaknesses. Not their damn strengths. It's not "being a bitch". It's being smart.

I can only hope that as Ronda was lying on the mat, she remembered why she won her first 8 pro fights by armbar. Yeah, she went for what...one hip throw (which she wasn't really in a good position for) and then sort of tried to grab for an arm off a ground scramble that wasn't really there. But you could tell that wasn't her gameplan...and you could even argue that those attempts sucked because she's gotten rusty at it.

That brings me to my other issue with this fight...Ronda didn't seem into it at all. I think her outburst at the weigh ins was to try to get her hyped for it...but it's pretty obvious she's burned out as hell. She's fought 3 times in 10 months, with two of those fights being overseas. And in the past month, she's had her relationship drama in the news, her mother's tirade against her coach, and then Edmond's bankruptcy crap. Just way too many bullshit distractions...and that's on top of her movies and all the media obligations. I feel like she's one bad dream away from thinking she's been abducted by aliens like GSP, lol.

She also looked like ass at the weigh ins...which has had people questioning her weight cut. Tonight, I thought she looked bloated and slow. This was her first fight since IVs were banned. Did any of that play a role? Who knows. Either way...I think she beat herself more than Holm beat her. But it will definitely be interesting to see how she responds. Does it light a fire? Or does it turn her into Gina Carano?

 
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tylerh1701 said:
Mighty Mouse apparently streams regularly on Twitch, I didn't know that.

http://www.twitch.tv/mightymouseufc125

Streaming some Dark Souls 2 but he's not really playing just talking about UFC in a mostly unintelligible manner.
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lmao...I gotta say, this makes me sad. Poor Mighty Mouse is so underappreciated he talks to random people on Twitch and gets excited when he has 165 viewers. The freaking UFC Flyweight champion and arguably best pound for pound fighter in the world... I mean, good for him for staying grounded. But geez...

 
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I feel like you're trying to make excuse for why Rousey loss. She got beat because Holm was the better fighter with the better game plan that night.
 
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blueweltall said:
I feel like you're trying to make excuse for why Rousey loss. She got beat because Holm was the better fighter with the better game plan that night.
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Is somebody not making proper preparations an excuse or a reason? There can be reasons for why someone didn't perform at their best. Most of the stuff I said is fact (other than the weight cut thing...which I'll admit, is speculation).

I do not for one second believe that Holm is a better fighter. She's a better striker...without question. Which is why Ronda was fucking dumb for trying to stand with her. And Taverdyan is fucking dumb for telling her after the first round "you're doing great".

If Ronda fights at all smart, she's doing everything in her power to take that fight to the ground. But she was drunk on this "I can be a boxing champion" bullshit that Taverdyan was feeding her. This fight should be a reality check. Ronda didn't medal in the Olympics in boxing...she medaled in judo.

There is 100% still a chance that Holm beats Ronda anyway and legitimately does have the answer for double legs and hip throws. But there is no way you can say this was Ronda at her best. This was like when Chris Weidman beat Anderson Silva the first time.

 
The craziest thing is Ronda predicted the exact outcome in her interview on The Tonight Show last month.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589555-ronda-rousey-prophesied-knockout-by-holly-holm-to-jimmy-fallon-in-october

I mean, it wasn't exactly a mystery that that's what Holm would want to do...which just makes it all the more stranger that Ronda was so adament on standing with her.

Even she recognizes that she needed to be patient...but then she wasn't patient at all. Something was just off, man. I don't know if it's that asshat Travis Browne or if it was the EA Curse (cover announcement just 2 days prior). Or just the fact that she's been so damn dominant, she hasn't been in an actual fight in quite a while. Hell, maybe she was on her period. I don't know. :lol:

Holly was good. But Ronda was not herself.

 
n8rockerasu said:
There is 100% still a chance that Holm beats Ronda anyway and legitimately does have the answer for double legs and hip throws. But there is no way you can say this was Ronda at her best. This was like when Chris Weidman beat Anderson Silva the first time.
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Chris Weidman was putting a beating on Anderson the first fight. Took him down and was ground and pounding him. Silva just happened to be caught after getting worked the first round and the first half of the 2nd. Silva tried getting in his head and got KO'd. The next fight also had Weidman winning til the leg break.

Ronda needs to focus on her judo. She really hasn't shown all that much in the UFC except for her harai-goshi and uchi-mataas (her two hip tosses) when people clinch with her. I think she is very use to bullying her opponents into the clinch or having them just trying to clinch with her (since they all have no game plans). Ronda doesn't go for double legs, single legs, ankle picks, sweeps, trips, etc. She just latches on and send them for a ride. Against a person who won't let her clinch she is going to have to use a much more diverse grappling game then what she has had to show so far.

Ronda probably doesn't have much of single/doouble leg since it is frowned upon in judo and now even banned. You shoot for a double leg in judo you are disqualified.

I'm not saying Ronda can't win, but she has to take a step back and rethink her game plan (and maybe get a real coach). The chasing Holm forward and then bull rushing throwing haymakers hoping to connect and clinch is not going to work on Holm. She needs to diversify and keep her guessing or use lateral movement to keep Holm trapped. Ronda just uses straight forward movement, she never tried to cut off the cage and keep Holm stuck at all. She's never had to before, so it wasn't an issue.

Ronda's aggression and killer instinct already set her apart from 90% of WMMA so its been smooth sailing for her until now.

I do think the immediate rematch might be a bad idea. If Ronda loses again I'm guessing she will be done, and maybe retire. She's already talked about before not wanting to stay long in the sport, and if she loses twice her marketability will be in deep trouble. Then if she loses a third time it is gone. I think Dana should try to have a few warm up fights to then build the rematch and that way Ronda isn't put in a bad spot.

 
See, Dokstarr knows his shit, and I agree with all of that. And you're not wrong about the issue with the immediate rematch either. A second loss would basically put her where Miesha Tate has been. However, that's the exact scenario that happened with BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Anderson Silva, Renan Barao, etc. After they all lost that second time...they went into no man's land. And that's fair.

I guess it depends where Ronda's head is at after all this. The rematch would be a chance for her to prove that she's still the best in the world and that this fight was an aberration. She'd have to go into it with the understanding that losing again would mean falling way down the ladder. Then it's on her whether she wants to climb back up (ala Miesha) or yeah...do the Brock Lesnar/Gina Carano "it's only fun when I'm winning" routine.

For me, I feel like she's proven herself enough over these past several years (and has been a total company woman) to deserve a second chance. If Anderson Silva deserved one because he didn't take Weidman seriously and was clowning, I don't see how this is any less worthy. But again, who knows where Ronda's head is going to be after this. She might be done already.

 
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So...Jon Jones posted this on his Facebook earlier:

In my opinion Holly Holm is already the G.O.A.T. of women's combat sports. She was considered the greatest female boxer to ever compete in the sport and now she has defeated the greatest female mixed martial arts fighter to date. Her accolades are absolutely unheard of, but that's not what makes me such a fan of Holly. It's the way she carries herself outside of the bright lights and the arenas.
I know the MMA community doesn't really know Holly yet, so let me be the first to tell you. She is the most classy and down to earth athlete I've ever had the pleasure to be around. She is the long time pride of Albuquerque, New Mexico not only because the way she competes, but the way she treats each and every individual that has the opportunity of meeting her. This actually can be a problem at times, a simple trip for a gallon of milk to the grocery store could take her an easy 45 minutes and she doesn't even mind haha. If you're impressed by Holly's talent, wait until you get an understanding of what type of character she possesses, it is truly world class. She is a role model that you would love to have your daughters look up to. I'm so honored to be able to call her a teammate and most importantly a friend.
Congratulations again, Champ and keep kicking ass at life. Jackson's Martial Arts & Fitness Academy Westside UFC
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Jon Jones said these words... So, he can recognize what these traits look like...understand the importance of them...and then completely and utterly ignore them himself, lol. I'm a huge fan of Jon Jones, the fighter. But seriously, what in the hell?

 
Herb Dean talks about Ronda not looking like she was in great shape.

http://www.mmamania.com/2015/11/19/9760426/referee-herb-dean-think-ive-seen-ronda-rousey-in-better-physical-shape-ufc

I'm telling you, man...it was a bad weight cut. The fact that she overshot and came in at 134 even says something. She probably had to cut more than she's ever cut before and just dehydrated the hell out of herself. Then, trying to rehydrate (without IVs), she bloated up and carried all that water into the fight.

I'm not saying that's WHY she lost. But I'm almost positive that did happen.

 
Between the movies, books, signing autographs, being a "star" she probably didn't focus like she should and didn't train/diet like she should before a fight. She probably just assumed she could walk in and steam roll Holm.

Cutting weight is probably the most miserable thing you can do in the world. I hated it more than anything, and it saps your energy. I would do better being the lighter guy in the division than weighing 15 lbs over the division cutoff.

 
Bellator...you so crazy...

9b3b2490-916f-11e5-889b-ef26692adfe2_Kimbo-vs-DaDa-5000-fight.jpg


 
Wow...so the winner of the Aldo/McGregor fight will be on the cover of the UFC 2 video game next to Ronda Rousey. Man...there is SO MUCH PRESSURE on Conor to win this fight. If Aldo wins, the UFC's world is seriously fucked upside down several times over.

Aldo barely even likes the company. He's not going to give a shit about being on the cover of a video game. I get that they're hoping Conor wins and everything falls into place, but I think I'd go with Weidman (though I guess he could lose too) before I'd take a chance getting stuck with a lump of coal like Aldo. :lol:

 
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Damn...PVZ got her ass beat tonight. No takedown defense whatsoever. This is the problem with such a thin division and rushing her along. I know the UFC wants her to be a star, but she's so inexperienced. Gotta wonder how she's going to rebound from being mauled like this.

The Northcutt fight could have had a similar outcome, but Sage has been immersed in all types of martial arts his entire life (he's seriously a super human...like "Chuck Norris is such a badass, he reincarnated as Sage Northcutt while still alive" super human). I don't think he expected Pfister to take him down.

But once he got back up from that he was like "Oh, this is what you want to do?"...and just jacked Pfister up. And he's only 19...but at least he has the luxury of having a much deeper division that he can gradually progress in. But personally, I'll be shocked if Northcutt doesn't abandon MMA when those movie deals start rolling in. I know he said he wants to break Jon Jones record for being the youngest champion. But I can't see 2015 Zack Morris being a cage fighter for very long.

 
fuck, where did that come from? Was definitely pulling for Mendes, so not happy with this result.

Not sure why they're saying Frankie will for sure get the next title shot. If Conor wins tomorrow no way they won't have an instant rematch.

 
My prediction for Aldo v McGregor...Jose will be well aware of how Mendes was able to keep Conor on his back, and he'll take him down just to frustrate Conor and get in his head.

I'm pulling for McGregor, but I saw massive holes in his ground game...and had Mendes not rushed for a foolish submission attempt, he probably could have lived in Conor's guard the entire fight.

If Aldo does this, I could see Conor getting pissed and doing something to massively disrespect him.

Or...I mean, Aldo could get KTFO, lol.
 
Hell yeah, Luke Rockhold! I don't dislike Weidman, but he's a bit on the boring side. Having Rockhold as a legitimate rival can only be good for both him and the UFC.
 
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