My hometown made the national news!!!..... I'm so ashamed

Xtreme331

Xtreme331

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/26/drawings.arrests.ap/index.html

"Boys arrested for stick figure drawings

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Posted: 7:29 AM EST (1229 GMT)

OCALA, Florida (AP) -- Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs.

The 9- and 10-year-old boys were arrested Monday and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person. They were also suspended from school.

One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and "holding knives pointed through" his body, according to a police report. The figures were identified by written names or initials.

Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened.

The boys' parents said they thought the children should be punished by the school and families, not the legal system."

](*,) Speechless.......
 
[quote name='epobirs']If this were a chargable offense in the early 70's my whole elementary school would have been converted to a prison.[/quote]

yeah so i guess i should turn myself in to the authorities due to all those violent death threats i created in elementary/middle/high school and college (yeah so i never really got over doodling). :roll: stupid authorities
 
Am I missing something? Isn't this an obvious violation of freedom of speech, and specifically artistic freedom? It's even more ridiculous that they are only 9 and 10 years old.
 
"making a written threat to kill or harm another person"

If they SHOWED it to him, that would be a threat. Otherwise, it's just fiction/art/free expression. in poor taste, perhaps, but not a threat.
 
Maybe this is a stupid question, but how the hell can they tell who the stick figures are supposed to represent???
 
Remember that it was only a couple of years ago that that one elementary school kid got suspended for sexual harrassment because he kissed a classmate. Making threatening and aggressive remarks sound a lot more serious than a simple kiss, possibly deserving of more severe punishment.
 
Makes perfect sense to me. After all, if someone floats but they're not a duck they must be made of wood and therefore a witch...or something like that. ;)
 
Heh... my best friend and I used to draw stick figures killing each other all the time back in 5th & 6th grade. In fact one of our teachers caught a glimpse of the cartoon and said we had "talent"

This is just ridiculous... I think I'm going to try to re-create a Mr. Mime & Mr. Clown cartoon with paintshop though, just for kicks.
 
zero tolerance = zero common sense.

My roommate and I, in HS and college, had a whole 'purge list' written up. People, famous or local, we determined in our infinite teenage wisdom were wastes of oxygen or scourges on society. Or just annoying. Had a lot of names on it. All it was, though, was names, no method of execution or anything. Was interesting one time when someone on the list, saw the list...
Now, I guess, we'd be expelled for that.
 
[quote name='MaxBiaggi3']Remember that it was only a couple of years ago that that one elementary school kid got suspended for sexual harrassment because he kissed a classmate. Making threatening and aggressive remarks sound a lot more serious than a simple kiss, possibly deserving of more severe punishment.[/quote]

"Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs."

C'mon. Maybe the classmate was a bully? Maybe the teacher and other school officials had done nothing to reprimand the bully? What does this teach kids that may be getting harassed and let out their feelings on paper? Don't draw and act out - you are going to get arrested for a felony, so why not just take out the kid?

](*,)
 
[quote name='tickdude']"Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs."

What does this teach kids that may be getting harassed and let out their feelings on paper?[/quote]

I think this teaches kids that there are legal resources you can turn to when obnoxious, ill-mannered bullies begin threatening your life. Nothing on a juvenile's record will follow them into adult life, so having these little pint-sized thugs led away in handcuffs might actually do them some good in a "scared straight" sort of way.

If the kid depicted in the drawings was actually the bully, the other two kids should have long ago talked with their teacher and others about the bully, so this one drawing incident couldn't have been taken out of context like this. If these kids wanted to express their feelings, they should have played GTA3 like all the other pre-teens on these boards seem to brag about doing.
 
[quote name='plastikpyro']so if i sketched a drawing of me boning a hot chick and gave it to her would that be considered rape?[/quote]

No but that can be construed as sexual harrassment.
 
[quote name='epobirs']If this were a chargable offense in the early 70's my whole elementary school would have been converted to a prison.[/quote]



yeah, same here...
 
This is ridiculous, I don't think these kids did anything illegal. Perhaps these drawings were inappropriate for class, but an arrestable offense? Stupid.
 
behold an almost exact replica of a Mr. Mime & Mr. Clown cartoon that my friend and I used to draw about 12-13 years ago!

mimeinthebox0sm.jpg
 
[quote name='MaxBiaggi3'][quote name='tickdude']"Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs."

What does this teach kids that may be getting harassed and let out their feelings on paper?[/quote]

I think this teaches kids that there are legal resources you can turn to when obnoxious, ill-mannered bullies begin threatening your life. Nothing on a juvenile's record will follow them into adult life, so having these little pint-sized thugs led away in handcuffs might actually do them some good in a "scared straight" sort of way.

If the kid depicted in the drawings was actually the bully, the other two kids should have long ago talked with their teacher and others about the bully, so this one drawing incident couldn't have been taken out of context like this. If these kids wanted to express their feelings, they should have played GTA3 like all the other pre-teens on these boards seem to brag about doing.[/quote]

I don't know what teachers and others in charge can do about bullies. I really don't. If the parents do not care (as in Columbine where the parents really did not give a flying fuck what their kids were doing on computers and gun shows) or actually encourage violence, bullies remain doing what they do. But drawing things out and acting out are two different things, altogether. Again, if the images were drawn and shown to the kid who was being threatened, then there is a definite basis for punishing the 2 kids. However, handcuffing kids is way overboard. They are 10 years old, and as far as I can tell, did not commit any assault or battery. What are they going to do? Draw their way out of the school using crayons? Please.

Why not put Michael Jackson in handcuffs?
 
[quote name='_heretic']Am I missing something? Isn't this an obvious violation of freedom of speech, and specifically artistic freedom? It's even more ridiculous that they are only 9 and 10 years old.[/quote]

Artistic freedom? Maybe. Freedom of speech? Maybe. But where exactly is the line drawn that there is an issue, and the artistic freedom of speech becomes reality?
Call me closed minded if you want, but too much of this type of thing, is explained away as a freedom of expression and speech these days. Columbine could be explained as freedom of expression in this logic.

Freedom of speech, expression, and art, does require a certain level of common sense and decency.

Handcuffs and the whole thing is a bit far and overreacting though.
 
Well, i guess the days of having "School vs. Army" on blue lined paper are over. Hell, Calvins & Hobbes rendition of "T-Rex in F-14 attacking school" would be called bad
 
I just wish I could find all those old Mr. Mime & Mr. Clown drawings... as we progressed they started to involve a lot of sexual innuendo and cross dressing on behalf of the Mime.
 
[quote name='Wshakspear']Well, i guess the days of having "School vs. Army" on blue lined paper are over. Hell, Calvins & Hobbes rendition of "T-Rex in F-14 attacking school" would be called bad[/quote]

:lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry:
 
There is a thing called freedom of speech. If they were not sharing this with others the school should be punished.
 
[quote name='Indiana']If they were not sharing this with others the school should be punished.[/quote]

If they were not sharing this with others, nobody would have ever heard about this, and we'd all be posting on some other thread.
 
[quote name='dental_regurgitation']This is ridiculous, I don't think these kids did anything illegal. Perhaps these drawings were inappropriate for class, but an arrestable offense? Stupid.[/quote]

Try drawing a pic like that of your boss and leave it at work. See what happens.

Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to threaten someone. It amazes me that people still give kids a pass simply due to age. Kids today aren't that naive or stupid. They know the difference between right and wrong. You also have to realize that kids have more freedom to act like idiots today. Teachers have limited ways to correct a bad apple because the school can get sued. Parents who spank a child may be areested for abuse.

Personally, I think the parents and school should handle this but I have no problem with the arrest. The felony charge is surprising (it won't stick most likely) but safety of a child always trumps free speech. If it didn't, then there wouldn't be an age limit of 18 for porn. Of course, if people were better parents, it wouldn't come to this in the first place.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']behold an almost exact replica of a Mr. Mime & Mr. Clown cartoon that my friend and I used to draw about 12-13 years ago!

"pic taken out for sake of 56ks"[/quote]


AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH
nice. :rofl:
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK'][quote name='dental_regurgitation']This is ridiculous, I don't think these kids did anything illegal. Perhaps these drawings were inappropriate for class, but an arrestable offense? Stupid.[/quote]

Try drawing a pic like that of your boss and leave it at work. See what happens.

Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to threaten someone. It amazes me that people still give kids a pass simply due to age. Kids today aren't that naive or stupid. They know the difference between right and wrong. You also have to realize that kids have more freedom to act like idiots today. Teachers have limited ways to correct a bad apple because the school can get sued. Parents who spank a child may be areested for abuse.

Personally, I think the parents and school should handle this but I have no problem with the arrest. The felony charge is surprising (it won't stick most likely) but safety of a child always trumps free speech. If it didn't, then there wouldn't be an age limit of 18 for porn. Of course, if people were better parents, it wouldn't come to this in the first place.[/quote]

Thanks man for a second there i was like :whistle2:k...am i the only one who is ok with this? I dont care if the kid in the picture was a bully or not. If it was my kid being stabbed in someones else's drawing i wouldnt be like "oh just give him a slap on the wrist" I would be pressing to get them suckers kicked out of school or something. If it was my kid doing the drawing...well i would be ashamed but most likely it wouldnt be because i would hope to have taught him better than that.

As for you guys with the hit list and your own personal drawings....man thats just sick and the fact that you feel its ok even now(where one could argue you know better) is just strange (IMO). I love zero tolerance because id rather get some punk kids punished and hopefully in doing so they learn a lesson instead of having something like columbine happen where innocent children have to die and suffer.

I know you might think 9 and 10 is way too young...well think about it, years ago did you think it would happen in a middle school?
 
[quote name='ElfAngel7']I'm from Miami, so I'm used to my stupid city being in the news.[/quote]

Haha....it's funny cuz its true :lol:
 
[quote name='epobirs']If this were a chargable offense in the early 70's my whole elementary school would have been converted to a prison.[/quote]

If this were a chargeable offence when i was in grade school (just 5 years ago) id be a lifer right now.
 
[quote name='Weedy649'] Thanks man for a second there i was like :whistle2:k...am i the only one who is ok with this? I dont care if the kid in the picture was a bully or not. If it was my kid being stabbed in someones else's drawing i wouldnt be like "oh just give him a slap on the wrist" I would be pressing to get them suckers kicked out of school or something. If it was my kid doing the drawing...well i would be ashamed but most likely it wouldnt be because i would hope to have taught him better than that.

As for you guys with the hit list and your own personal drawings....man thats just sick and the fact that you feel its ok even now(where one could argue you know better) is just strange (IMO). I love zero tolerance because id rather get some punk kids punished and hopefully in doing so they learn a lesson instead of having something like columbine happen where innocent children have to die and suffer.

I know you might think 9 and 10 is way too young...well think about it, years ago did you think it would happen in a middle school?[/quote]

Did I think what would happen in a middle school? I'm pretty sick of people pulling out a single incident and justifying everything they say with it.

Yes, there was a tragedy at Columbine High School, and I wish it had not happened. But that doesn't mean that it is okay to take away the rights of all students. What happened there only reflects a minute portion of society. School shootings really do not happen all that often. And even if they did, the way to respond is not to take away the rights of expression.

Part of the reason this happened at Columbine, I'm told, is that those students felt like they had no other way out. They didn't have a way of expressing to others what was happening to them. Bottling up their emotions would not have helped anything. Maybe the teachers or administrators who had these kids arrested thought that they would be preventing an attack by these particular students, but the message this sends to all other students is that it is not okay to express yourself. I don't think that stifling expression is the way to stop school violence.
 
[quote name='_heretic'] I don't think that stifling expression is the way to stop school violence.[/quote]

It not an expression issue. If you write anything that can been seen by the public about killing someone or hurting someone, the person threatened can take legal action. That doesn't change for a middle school. It amazes me that so many keep saying it is an expression issue without admitting that their are better ways to express oneself. The fact is that the situation was in school and involved an immediate threat. It is not the same as a parent finding the drawing at home in a journal.
 
[quote name='_heretic']I don't think that stifling expression is the way to stop school violence.[/quote]

I'm just fearful that these kids' next attempt at "expressing" themselves would be to physically act out their violent behavior on the other child, and at that point intervention might be too late.
 
"Sometimes when I feel like killing someone, I do a little trick to calm myself down. I'll go over to the persons house and ring the doorbell. When the person comes to the door, I'm gone, but you know what I've left on the porch? A jack-o-lantern with a knife stuck in the side of it's head with a note that says "You." After that I usually feel a lot better, and no harm done."

I think we can all agree, this is what the kids should have done. :wink:
 
[quote name='Xtreme331'][quote name='epobirs']If this were a chargable offense in the early 70's my whole elementary school would have been converted to a prison.[/quote]

yeah so i guess i should turn myself in to the authorities due to all those violent death threats i created in elementary/middle/high school and college (yeah so i never really got over doodling). :roll: stupid authorities[/quote]

My friends were trying to figure out how to blow the school up....
 
[quote name='MaxBiaggi3'][quote name='_heretic']I don't think that stifling expression is the way to stop school violence.[/quote]

I'm just fearful that these kids' next attempt at "expressing" themselves would be to physically act out their violent behavior on the other child, and at that point intervention might be too late.[/quote]

I agree that if that type of "artistic expression" is found, they need to be talked to in this day and age..i dont think there should be any other action taken at that time.
 
[quote name='Zman310']"Sometimes when I feel like killing someone, I do a little trick to calm myself down. I'll go over to the persons house and ring the doorbell. When the person comes to the door, I'm gone, but you know what I've left on the porch? A jack-o-lantern with a knife stuck in the side of it's head with a note that says "You." After that I usually feel a lot better, and no harm done."

I think we can all agree, this is what the kids should have done. :wink:[/quote]

That's the first thing that came to my mind... well that and Mr. Mime & Mr. Clown http://img171.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img171&image=mimeinthebox5pa.jpg
 
I had an agenda with a mock hitlist with friends' names on it........I lost it at school........and I still can't find it. :shock:
 
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