New Feedback System: speak up now or forever hold your peace...

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It seems that a new rating system is inevitable. I do believe it's important to integrate the previous scores, though. The old feedback tally is nice but it would be better to include it w/the new system. If I had Excel and knew how to use it I would have already volunteered to help, really.:) I think this suggestion has already been made but I'll repeat it anyway. After a certain period of time lock the old feedback tally option then the mods could confirm the scores listed using the old threads. This may seem like a lot of work but I don't think everybody that has traded will use the "old feedback tally" option so that will cut down on the amount of research. If the people CheapyD listed plus a few more are the only ones who use it, it shouldn't be too difficult. I would be willing to help w/this if requested to.

As far as the new rating system I think the unique user system is a bad idea. The score should reflect each trade, not user. Part of my current score is based on more than 1 trade w/1 person. A unique user system would essentially penalize you for establishing a rapport w/someone and making multiple trades w/them, at least as I understand it. I strongly vote for a rating based on the individual transaction, not user. If my viewpoint is flawed, feel free to try to persuade me otherwise.
 
My opinion is this: 1) I prefer unique trade totals over unique member totals. Also, originally it sounded like it was less complicated to do the former over that latter? I'm still confused about that? 2) For integrating the old feedback, I think each user should have to option to do their own feedback in excel sheets, if that helps at all. (For those that can't use excel, I think Excel can read tab-delimited or comma separated text files... if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm sure there are volunteers to help you transfer feedback too.) 3) I only like having the old feedback tally in the profile as a temporary solution (like joshingit said), until users finish #2. If none of these points are relevant, my apologies...
I will go with whatever is decided in end, and I hope whatever it is it's not overly complicated for Cheapy.
 
I haven't been around much the last two or three weeks, but this is an important subject to me. Personally, I'd much rather have the old feedback imported in (and count) than to simply start from scratch. I have about 1/10th the trades that shrike does, but my total is still a lot more than the majority of CAGs, and I don't want to start back at a "level" field.
Also, I disagree with judy. I would rather see a feedback score based on unique users, rather than trades (similar to eBay). Basing the cumulative score on the number of trades, not unique trading partners, leaves too much room for abuse. That wouldn't be a problem if everyone looked at more than just the numbers, but (sadly) very few do.
I'm not one for coming up with ideas related to these types of things, so I'll support whatever you guys decide, but these are the things I would prefer to see.
If you need help with anything, I'd be more than willing to sacrifice several hours this weekend. I have no problem with data entry, and since I'm in debt up to my eyeballs after spring break, I don't see myself flipping beer mats anytime soon. Just PM me if there's anything I can do.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']well...maybe we can see if there is a way we can hack TraderRatings to add the old feedback store to the new one.
Lets discuss it further tomorrow. gnight[/QUOTE]


That would be great. My computer died on me and I'm on a webtv so there isnt much i can do :( and i dont want to lose all my feedback. I know its just 11 but still...
 
[quote name='neocisco']As far as the new rating system I think the unique user system is a bad idea. The score should reflect each trade, not user. Part of my current score is based on more than 1 trade w/1 person. A unique user system would essentially penalize you for establishing a rapport w/someone and making multiple trades w/them, at least as I understand it. I strongly vote for a rating based on the individual transaction, not user. If my viewpoint is flawed, feel free to try to persuade me otherwise.[/QUOTE]
It works for eBay. It will also help cut down on fradulent entires.
Also, it will still tally your total feed back received, its just not part of your main score
EDIT: I see defiance_17 pretty much wrote the same thing.

In the end its up to you guys to decide how you want to handle it (as long as it doesnt involve too much work for me, of course). I'm only giving you the options and my opinions.

If you want to go the detailed, harder route, of being responsible for your own excel spreadsheets/data entry, that is fine, but I don't think you will have more that 10-20 people who will be bothered to do so.

Lets just decide already so we can move forward....

[quote name='shrike4242']Here's a novel idea. How about bringing up the three archived feedback threads, so we can actually pull feedback from them?[/QUOTE]
Stuck. (fyi, the search function actually works now)
 
[quote name='CheapyD']If you want to go the detailed, harder route, of being responsible for your own excel spreadsheets/data entry, that is fine, but I don't think you will have more that 10-20 people who will be bothered to do so.

Lets just decide already so we can move forward....[/quote]
I'm one of those 10-20 people, methinks.

[quote name='CheapyD']Stuck. (fyi, the search function actually works now)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for bringing them back. Greatly appreciated.
 
I think we should just do it asap, and look into the hack after.

I can't wait for all the stickies in the Trade forum to be removed for less clutter. :D Maybe one or two wouldn't hurt.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I think we should just do it asap, and look into the hack after.

I can't wait for all the stickies in the Trade forum to be removed for less clutter. :D Maybe one or two wouldn't hurt.[/QUOTE]

If you want to consolidate the three locked trade threads into the one "archive" thread you did before, I'm sure no one would mind. Least of all me. I'd just like them available for a little while, so I can go and drag out all my feedback.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']If you want to consolidate the three locked trade threads into the one "archive" thread you did before, I'm sure no one would mind. Least of all me. I'd just like them available for a little while, so I can go and drag out all my feedback.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't you just bookmark the threads? Plus they're pretty easy to find now by using the searches.
 
[quote name='judyjudyjudy']Couldn't you just bookmark the threads? Plus they're pretty easy to find now by using the searches.[/QUOTE]

Trakan had made an "archive" thread that just had the three threads as links as the first and only post.

Just asking if he'd put them back the way they used to be, is all.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']Trakan had made an "archive" thread that just had the three threads as links as the first and only post.

Just asking if he'd put them back the way they used to be, is all.[/QUOTE]
oh, okay, I see what you mean... I actually liked the other scammer archive thread too, but I guess we wouldn't need that if the wall of shame is eventually implemented in the new feedback system.

Edited to add:
Also, when the new feedback system is implemented, I think we should still have a feedback thread stickied at the top so people can post the same feedback stuff we've been posting and link it to our feedback. And then we can link all the old feedback threads in the first post in whatever feedback thread is stickied. (I hope that made sense.)
 
[quote name='StealthySeal']3 dollars paypal to whoever does my feedback excel sheet thingy! hahaha[/QUOTE]

Yes, I will offer the same thing. 3 dollars for my excel feedback thingy.
 
the excel thing is too hard...expecially for people with more than 20 (i mean i only have 10, but i have many other things to do)

i say we just keep it how we are doing it now (putting it into our profile) and then see what we can do about the hacking and inserting the number into the new system
 
[quote name='CheapyD']I added links to all the feedback threads in the Tally Thread.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, it's greatly appreciated!

I guess I'm going to start on my excel spreadsheet, since it seems like that's the only way old feedback will count unless someone finds a hack (which I imagine is pretty far back on the to-do list with all the other bigger issues right now).

I'd just like to make sure that if I do put in the work to make my spreadsheet that it will be usable in the new format. That's my understanding of things now, that if you want to make your own spreadsheet then it can be integrated into the new system.


As for the unique thing, I really see no reason for not having all feedback count, even if some of it is from the same user(s). Quite honestly the old system was very easy to exploit and it never caused us any problems, so why do people seem to think that this system which is a little harder to exploit will cause us problems? Also why should be people be penalized for establishing a good rapport with a specific trader or traders. Really though either way it won't be the end of the world, if everyone is really really worried about abuse then by all means go with the unique user idea, I just don't think hardcore abuse will be an issue. Just my 2 cents though.

Also I agree we should make a decision soon, if everyone here just keeps talking about it then nothing will get done, we either need to make a poll with all the realistic options and vote on them for a week or so. Or someone (most likely Cheapy since he is in charge) just needs to gauge the response of people in the community and make a decision in their best interests.
 
As long as the old threads stick around for quite some time, I saw we make the move now, and have the people that care about getting their old feedback into the new system get onto it.

One question I just thought of. If Person X is gets all their feedback set up into an Excel file, including feedbacks for Person Y, and then Person Y gets their feedback set up in the Excel file, what happens when both files are inputted into the new system?

Does it end up seeing a duplicate and only counting one, or does it end up doubling up on the feedback?
 
I just got back from vacation, so I hope I'm not too out of the loop. I care about my feedback, but I'm not sure I could devote the time now to convert all of my feedbacks to spreadsheet format. Is there any way that we can set a date and have the new feedback system begin then, and use the rating tally topic to give previous traders a head start with the new system? For example, say someone had 20 positive feedbacks before the new feedback system is implemented. Instead of starting at zero, just like everyone else, that person begins with a score of 20, but the details of their trades go unrecorded in the new system. From then on, however, trade details WILL be recorded and new feedbacks will be added to their previous count (20). I hope that makes sense.

I'm also going to submit a vote against unique users - three successful trades with one user should not be counted the same as one trade. I don't really see abuse being that big of a deal.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']As long as the old threads stick around for quite some time, I saw we make the move now, and have the people that care about getting their old feedback into the new system get onto it.

One question I just thought of. If Person X is gets all their feedback set up into an Excel file, including feedbacks for Person Y, and then Person Y gets their feedback set up in the Excel file, what happens when both files are inputted into the new system?

Does it end up seeing a duplicate and only counting one, or does it end up doubling up on the feedback?[/QUOTE]

Peope should only input their own (incoming) feedback.
Do not input feedback that you have left for other CAGs.
Not only is this easier for you, I think its the only way it would work.
 
I've been reading through all the pages on this thread this morning and I'm not sure if I missed it but is there a certain format that we need to use for the excel spreadsheet? I'm with a lot of other people, I have quite a bit of feedback with the old system and would like to see it implemented into the new system.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Peope should only input their own (incoming) feedback.
Do not input feedback that you have left for other CAGs.
Not only is this easier for you, I think its the only way it would work.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was expecting to end up with double feedback because every CAG would be doing both sides of the feedback, from what I had seen in the posts.

Makes my job half as daunting, now.
 
So, should i close this thread up and start a new one with specific instructions on what to do if you want your feedback carried over?

I believe we have agreed that everyone is responsible for filling out the excel sheet if they want their feedback carried over. What kind of time frame are we giving people to get this done?
 
[quote name='CheapyD']So, should i close this thread up and start a new one with specific instructions on what to do if you want your feedback carried over?

I believe we have agreed that everyone is responsible for filling out the excel sheet if they want their feedback carried over. What kind of time frame are we giving people to get this done?[/QUOTE]


It'll be a huge task to wade over 4 feedback topics. I'm thinking about 3 weeks to a month?

Maybe by May 1st?
 
Haven't read through all the posts...

Ideally I'd really like to see the feedback tie tightly in with the trade. That means the trade would have to be setup here and go through a process where each party indicates they have received their goods and then feedback would be able to be left. This system seems like anyone could enter feedback for anyone else at any time? That would seem to make it awfully easy for someone to sign up for a few new user ids and pad their feedback... I mean a poster could do that anyway, but having to setup a bunch of details, etc would make it a bit more work. If someone is caught padding their feedback I'd like to see them perma-banned.

I'd like to see the score be based on unique members, that's a very valuable metric.

But, the system does seem to be tons better than what we have now, and overall looks good. (From you OP, Cheapy, I thought I'd be able to play around and leave some fake feedback, but I couldn't see how to do that.)

As far as not posting until now. I tend to gloss over the stickies as they are often fairly static, and didn't see this thread until just now.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']So, should i close this thread up and start a new one with specific instructions on what to do if you want your feedback carried over?

I believe we have agreed that everyone is responsible for filling out the excel sheet if they want their feedback carried over. What kind of time frame are we giving people to get this done?[/QUOTE]

I'd vote for May 1, for the "input period" to be open until. Gives a full month for people to get off the stick and get it done. Beyond that, charge them a nominal fee that goes into the funds for the upkeep of CAG.

The old feedback threads will stay current in the soon-to-be-locked Tally thread, correct?
 
I just skimmed over this thread after getting back from Vacation.

Im just wondering, is there any way to make it so that BOTH members need to leave the feedback for it to count? Because I can easily see someone making a new account to add feedback to their main one.

This new system looks much much better. May 1st seems like a fine date to cut off the excel.

Besides that, I think everything else looks great.
 
[quote name='SS4Brolly']I just skimmed over this thread after getting back from Vacation.

Im just wondering, is there any way to make it so that BOTH members need to leave the feedback for it to count? Because I can easily see someone making a new account to add feedback to their main one.

This new system looks much much better. May 1st seems like a fine date to cut off the excel.

Besides that, I think everything else looks great.[/QUOTE]

Holy shucking fit, he's alive after all! :shock:

Good to have you back, Brolly.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I don't have Excel... :x

Ah well, just saying I had 24 feedback is good enough for me I suppose.[/QUOTE]

i agree, i will just let my 10 go into oblivion and i will start fresh :)
 
[quote name='Trakan']I don't have Excel... :x

Ah well, just saying I had 24 feedback is good enough for me I suppose.[/QUOTE]

I'll be happy to do your feedback, Trakan. :D

And for those that would like to use Excel files and not pay for Office, you might want to try:

http://www.openoffice.org

Great free office suite. Well worth the $$$. Reads and writes Excel files, plus Word.
 
[quote name='SS4Brolly']I just skimmed over this thread after getting back from Vacation.

Im just wondering, is there any way to make it so that BOTH members need to leave the feedback for it to count? Because I can easily see someone making a new account to add feedback to their main one.

This new system looks much much better. May 1st seems like a fine date to cut off the excel.

Besides that, I think everything else looks great.[/QUOTE]

Ya know, I've made maybe 5? maybe 6... I think 5 trades on here and I know at least one of them I didn't get feedback left for me, but I left feedback for all of them. I was hoping we'd find a way that the only way the feedback would count was if both people left it. That way one person isn't getting the shaft, because they took the initiative to do the proper thing and leave feedback as soon as the trade was completed, whilst the other person dicked around.

Of course... in my case I think rimsforsale was banned after I completed a successful trade with him, go figure...
 
[quote name='CheapyD']So, should i close this thread up and start a new one with specific instructions on what to do if you want your feedback carried over?

I believe we have agreed that everyone is responsible for filling out the excel sheet if they want their feedback carried over. What kind of time frame are we giving people to get this done?[/QUOTE]

Sounds good to me. I need very simple instructions for my simple mind.:) As far as the time frame maybe 3 weeks?
 
Im all for making the feedback easier to manager. God knows it must be a pain the way it is, but I really hate to lose my over 30 trade feedbacks. all ranked 10/10. I always did everything I could to have a mutually acceptable and happy trade and it sucks to think that all of that could be erased.
My pc has been messed up for a couple weeks and I havent had the time to read through all the posts on this topic, but I also think this should be all or nothing too. If one persons feedback gets transfered over, everyones should. Im not really computer savy and I dont have Excel, but I think my feedback is just as important as someone elses be it lots more or lots less than mine.
 
I completely agree. It would be incrediblely shitty if someone comes back a week from now to find their 50+ feedback is now zero.

If you reset some, reset them all. Otherwise, do the foot work and copy everything.
 
I think having the option to do your own excel sheet is a good thing. It's not being selective on who gets to have their feedback transferred; it's each person caring enough to do their own feedback. And there are free options for working with Excel files, like shrike mentioned OpenOffice.
 
[quote name='siamesellama']What's stopping people from making up their own feedback then?[/QUOTE]
Well, nothing has really ever stopped people from making up their own feedback. Both the old and new systems can be abused. It's always been up to traders to really research a person's feedback.

The new system allows people to put links in their feedback, so you can add the links to legitimate posts in the feedback threads (but who's to say those posts weren't bogus in the first place anyways?).
 
If anything looks suspicious or needs to be questioned, we can check IPs and edit feedback if necessary.
 
So you're saying everyone is going to have a feedback thread? These are going into a new sub-forum, right? It would get even more cluttered if everyone had their own feedback thread floating in trading post.
 
I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression that we'd each have our own feedback page, probably accessible through our profile, which would show all of our feedback. The page Cheapy linked to would show the top traders and the wall of shame.

I'm saying when I'm viewing someone's feedback page, lets say "X's," that if anything looks awkward there I or any mod can edit that feedback and you guys can bring it to our attention.

It looks like that page is down right now though.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression that we'd each have our own feedback page, probably accessible through our profile, which would show all of our feedback. The page Cheapy linked to would show the top traders and the wall of shame.

I'm saying when I'm viewing someone's feedback page, lets say "X's," that if anything looks awkward there I or any mod can edit that feedback and you guys can bring it to our attention.

It looks like that page is down right now though.[/QUOTE]
What I was talking about earlier was different from what you're referring to. I was talking about a place for posts describing the trades. In the new feedback system, you can link each feedback (click the feedback and it redirects you somewhere), and I was suggesting we link to our posts in the feedback threads. There is a column in the Excel sheets for a URL, and I was saying you can link all the old posts in the old feedback threads. (I hope that makes sense.) But I'm just offering up a suggestion.
 
Ah, okay, I see now. You'd want the link to go to the old feedback that was posted in the tally topic, right? I thought we we were going to add all comments, etc into that space provided in the traderratings. I thought that's what we were transferring it for? I may be misunderstanding you again.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Ah, okay, I see now. You'd want the link to go to the old feedback that was posted in the tally topic, right? I thought we we were going to add all comments, etc into that space provided in the traderratings. I thought that's what we were transferring it for? I may be misunderstanding you again.[/QUOTE]
I meant a link to the specific post (the ones that say "Who did you trade with? What did you trade? blah blah balh") in the feedback threads, not the tally one.
What do mean by add all comments... like the what you traded and such?

This discussion would probably be a lot easier if the new feedback page was up :)
 
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