Nintendo 3DS - General Discussion Thread

[quote name='dothog']Consider your desire for bigger/better alongside the push for 3D. We're at a place where bigger/better isn't feasible, economic, or appreciable.[/quote]

For TVs that's sort of true...once they hit 1080p and good response times, they really ran out of things to market...so then the next year we got all these goofy "120hz" processing effects that looked like gabage, and then the year or so after that we got "3D" that...

For games though it depends. Appreciable, absolutely. We're at least decades away from being able to do photo realistic, assuming it's possible given physical and economic constraints, and even then we could use more memory and CPU power.

Economic? I don't know...from the beginning this whole generation has been publishers whining about how expensive things are. I've never been sympathetic, because actually spending the same amount, having the same sized team, you STILL get better results on better hardware without spending a dime more. They're CHOOSING to have huge budgets (and I'm not entirely sure what huge is...apparently 3-5 million used to be common, and now it's way more than that? Except at the same time the Bioshock guy was saying Bioshock cost 15 million, and I'm not sure how much more that really is given inflation, and plus it's one of the highest end games ever made...so...)

But besides that, the DS is two generations behind current (presumably soon to be three) so there's lots of catch up room where it should still be viable.

While I'm somewhat annoyed by them releasing a PSP competitor six years late...still, it's a PSP competitor with Nintendo franchises. That ain't nothing! If they were focusing on "hey, we've got a newer generation portable, and its got a great analog stick! It's going to have all kinds of new games!" THAT I'd think was pretty awesome... not a fan of the focus being on gimmicks like "3D" and "motion control".
 
Stopped by a Best Buy this morning and tried out the 3DS. Pilotwings couldn't hold my attention long, but I enjoyed the 3D effects. My husband was with me, and we both agreed the game was easier to play without the 3D on. Part of the problem was playing the 3DS at an angle due to the tether to the demo station. I think it wouldn't be as hard to play in 3D when you're comfortable at home.

Also, the blue/teal color is great, and I'm happy I went with it. It is indeed kind of sparkly up close.

Excited! :D
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']120hz isn't a "goofy processing effect" it's the refresh rate of the screen.[/QUOTE]

Well LCDs don't HAVE refresh rates. While you'd think it was at least an indicator of how many frames per second the display could show, what that "120hz" was referring to is this goofy processing effect that makes up fake frames and inserts them in between real frames to "smooth" things out...it looks reaaaaaaaaaally bad but thankfully can be shut off on any TVs I've seen.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Well LCDs don't HAVE refresh rates. While you'd think it was at least an indicator of how many frames per second the display could show, what that "120hz" was referring to is this goofy processing effect that makes up fake frames and inserts them in between real frames to "smooth" things out...[/QUOTE]

What? LCDs don't have refresh rates? I guess mine's broken, cause it's not a static image.
 
[quote name='elessar123']What? LCDs don't have refresh rates? I guess mine's broken, cause it's not a static image.[/QUOTE]

One has nothing to do with the other.
 
Has there been any confirmation on which of the launch games will utilize Spot Pass or Street Pass? To that end, is there any word on which games have online multiplayer?

I did a quick Google search and didn't find much.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Ok dude, whatever you say.[/QUOTE]

What kind of non-response is that? LCDs do not refresh, hence they do not have refresh rates.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']What kind of non-response is that? LCDs do not refresh, hence they do not have refresh rates.[/QUOTE]

If it didn't refresh, it'd be a static image.
 
Wolfpup is confusing 120hz with the frame interpolation tech that some TVs use for that fake looking smoothing.

120Hz and now 240Hz refresh rates are very beneficial to LCDs.
 
Since I'm on lunch, I'll elaborate.

If LCDs did not have a refresh rate (0 Hz), it'd be a static image. If it was 1 Hz, it'd change once a second. So yes, it has a refresh rate.

That being said, 60 Hz LCDs update the screen at 1/60 of a second (thus the 60 Hz). When you go higher, say 120 Hz / 240 Hz / 480 Hz, you're either effectively doing something similar to upscaling, where signal processing algorithms fill in the blanks for the missing frames, OR the TV outputs a black screen in between actual screens. For the former, YMMV on the results, which range from ok to piss poor. This is what you have a beef with. For the latter, if you have a 120Hz or above TV, you're not filling in the blanks with generated data, but just clearing all pixels between frames, so to speak.

Furthermore, a set does benefit from 240 Hz if you're watching a 3D source, because this means each eye will still receive 120 frames per second, in alternating order. If you have a non-3D source, the 240 Hz is arguably worthless.

I'm not sure what 480 Hz LCDs do, but first guess would be that for 3D, each eye gets 240 frames per second, which could be 5 frames of color based on each initial 24fps source image + 5 frames of black, so 10 * 24 = 240 frames per second, per eye.

Depending on the quality of the screen, a 240 Hz LCD might still output at 120 Hz, because it physically can't switch faster. But if you have an LCD screen that can't even do 60 Hz, kick it to the curb.

tl;dr: LCDs have refresh rates.
 
[quote name='utopianmachine']Stopped by a Best Buy this morning and tried out the 3DS. Pilotwings couldn't hold my attention long, but I enjoyed the 3D effects. My husband was with me, and we both agreed the game was easier to play without the 3D on. Part of the problem was playing the 3DS at an angle due to the tether to the demo station. I think it wouldn't be as hard to play in 3D when you're comfortable at home.

Also, the blue/teal color is great, and I'm happy I went with it. It is indeed kind of sparkly up close.

Excited! :D[/QUOTE]
You did pick uo the system right?
There's only a strong magnet holding it down.
 
Well, I stopped at BB and gave it a go.

I have to say, I had a pretty difficult time with the 3D. Maybe it's because I wear glasses? I'm hoping it's more because I was standing and am 6'1". Hopefully it will be better when I can sit or lay down at home. Either way, I loved the look and feel of the hardware and the visuals were nice. I'm thinking I'll pick up Pilotwings, it will be fun to fiddle with until something better comes out. Seems like it has a lot of playability, what with high scores and all. More than Nintendogs, anyway. My roommate is getting SFIV, so if I like that I'll get it too.
 
I wish I could plug in my copy of ds9 at one of these best buy displays just to get a feel for how the old ds games look.
 
I'm going to be checking it out this weekend if the local BB's have any of those demo kiosks. My kids are excited about checking it out too, but tempered by the fact that I told them there is no way we are buying one. :) At least not until there's a big price drop. Doesn't mean I'm not excited to check it out anyway.
 
I wish the battery life was better for non 3DS games. I'm looking to replace one of my DSlites with a 3DS (and keep one DS Lite) but I'm afraid the battery life will be close to dismal after some time. I have two launch DS Lites and get about hour and a half with the darkest light level :( I'll probbaly get a new battery for one and trade the other towards a 3DS (or would I be better off with a DSI?)
 
[quote name='Rocko']I'm hoping it's more because I was standing and am 6'1". Hopefully it will be better when I can sit or lay down at home.[/QUOTE]

That is almost certainly the case. Keep in mind that the initial demo units that the press saw at E3 were all tethered by a pretty long cable (1m-ish) so journos were able to hold the unit however it felt most comfortable.
 
You can pick up the units at Best Buy too. The cable it's attached to is fairly long as well.

Even then though, it's a lot easier to focus in that 'sweet spot' when sitting.
 
[quote name='dallow']You did pick uo the system right?
There's only a strong magnet holding it down.[/QUOTE]

I did, but it's hard to be comfortable when something is perpetually pulling the system away from you.
 
[quote name='bmachine']Has there been any confirmation on which of the launch games will utilize Spot Pass or Street Pass? To that end, is there any word on which games have online multiplayer?

I did a quick Google search and didn't find much.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know there isn't a list for the American launch games, but for the Japanese launch games there's this (mostly accurate, read the comments section) list: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/02/24/3ds_launch_functionality/
 
just got back from best buy, I am pretty underwhelmed. the 3d was a lot more subtle then I was expecting and I felt a little woozy by the end of my 10 minutes with the 3ds. I thought pilotwings was pretty boring and I honestly don't think the 3d added anything at all to the game. I probably wont be using the 3d functionality much. The analog nub felt pretty good though. also, I thought the blue color was pretty feminine with all the sparkly crap. I am still gonna get one b/c ultimately I love first party nintendo hand held games.
 
Yeah I picked it up but it still had me a little hunched.

If there's a $10 credit for SSFIV I might pick that up first, before Pilotwings. I have a $10 credit already from Pokemon.
 
[quote name='elessar123']If it didn't refresh, it'd be a static image.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='elessar123']Since I'm on lunch, I'll elaborate.

If LCDs did not have a refresh rate (0 Hz), it'd be a static image. If it was 1 Hz, it'd change once a second. So yes, it has a refresh rate.[/quote]

No, they don't, because they do not refresh. CRTs have to refresh regardless of whether they're displaying a static image or a moving one. LCDs do not refresh regardless of whether they're displaying a static image or a moving one.

That being said, 60 Hz LCDs update the screen at 1/60 of a second (thus the 60 Hz).
Click to expand...

How fast they can update the screen depends on their response time.

When you go higher, say 120 Hz / 240 Hz / 480 Hz, you're either effectively doing something similar to upscaling, where signal processing algorithms fill in the blanks for the missing frames, OR the TV outputs a black screen in between actual screens.
Click to expand...

There's no reason they'd ever output a black screen in between actual screens. They can hold an image without refreshing for 5 months or 5 seconds or 5ms...doesn't matter.

For the former, YMMV on the results, which range from ok to piss poor. This is what you have a beef with.
Click to expand...

Yep. It looks terrible, and is what was meant by "120/240hz" on the first sets that said that. Presumably now they do actually sell sets that can display faster frame rates.

Depending on the quality of the screen, a 240 Hz LCD might still output at 120 Hz, because it physically can't switch faster. But if you have an LCD screen that can't even do 60 Hz, kick it to the curb.
Click to expand...

Often panels sold with that "120hz" or whatever rating are also higher quality for other reasons, so you might want one anyway, but in and of itself there's no need for "120hz" (baring "3D"). Video sources range from 24, 30, or 60fps, so you're not getting anything by being able to display more than 60, and those first sets labeled like that couldn't display a source doing more than that anyway...it was all just code for a processing effect, a bigger number to sound more impressive.
 
Wow... I am pissed at Amazon right now. They're great most of the time, but not today. I sent another e-mail asking them to confirm that my recent pre-order for a black 3DS would be shipped out at the same time that my original pre-order for the blue one (placed in early February) was scheduled to be shipped. THEY CANCELED MY ORIGINAL PRE-ORDER COMPLETELY WITHOUT MY CONSENT. What the fuck were they thinking?
 
I had to place a separate order for the black one. They don't let you just edit the order to pick the other color. I simply asked them if the recent order for the black system would be fulfilled at launch and they just canceled my original order without even asking me. I should have been given the choice to do that myself.
 
After a very bad experience with 3D movies (I won't even go into it) I am not eager to pick one of these up or even try it, especially at the price point and lack of games that I am interested in. I don't even want any of the launch games in the slightest. I have literately hundreds of unplayed PSP and DS games that I can buy in the meantime and I doubt I would be able to play through everything I want to on the DS and PSP (i own both) in 2-3 years time. I also have at least 20 unplayed PS2 games here, and many of them are very long games.

This comes from a person who loves motion simulator arcade games and a person who loves amusement rides and can go on pretty much any ride without getting ill (and many rides in the same day without getting ill). So if I buy one I will probably just have to turn the 3D off, thus I don't intend to pay any more than $150 for the system even if I have to wait a couple years for it to drop in price or a new model to release. Though I haven't run into a demo system yet, so I can't say for sure.

I also have seriously bad eyes, I wear glasses which is supposed to correct any problems for seeing 3D but I have a massive case of astigmatism and nearsightedness. My prescription is a -8. I also cannot wear contacts because I was unable to put them in, tried many times trust me.
 
Holy shit... I have astigmatism and am nearsighted. I'm not sure what my glasses prescription is exactly, but my contacts are something like -1.5 and -3, and I can't read large print that's a few feet in front of me without them. I can't imagine what -8 would be like.
 
Sigh. Wish you would have just not responded with false information, so I wouldn't have to keep correcting you.

[quote name='Wolfpup']No, they don't, because they do not refresh. CRTs have to refresh regardless of whether they're displaying a static image or a moving one. LCDs do not refresh regardless of whether they're displaying a static image or a moving one.

How fast they can update the screen depends on their response time.[/QUOTE]

Nope, still wrong. Response time limits the maximum refresh rate, but they are NOT the same. You can have a 4ms response rate, and refresh at 60 Hz. Therefore, there are 60 Hz (refresh rate) TVs with 8ms response time, instead of 16ms response time, and sets with whacky 5ms response times. The second part is correct; how fast they can update the screen depends on the response time, but that still isn't the same thing as refresh rate.

[quote name='Wolfpup'] There's no reason they'd ever output a black screen in between actual screens. They can hold an image without refreshing for 5 months or 5 seconds or 5ms...doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

Still not true. An LCD screen going from black to grey to white is faster than going from black to white (for example, going from black to white might take 12ms, while going from black to grey may take 5ms, and grey to white another 5ms, so a total of 10ms inserting a black frame). This is a trick they use to reduce blur. A beneficial side effect is darker blacks.

You're also getting flicker confused. CRT flickers occur because you have to have a minimum refresh rate to not notice it, while LCDs do not.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']
I also have seriously bad eyes, I wear glasses which is supposed to correct any problems for seeing 3D but I have a massive case of astigmatism and nearsightedness. My prescription is a -8. I also cannot wear contacts because I was unable to put them in, tried many times trust me.[/QUOTE]

My eyes are just about as bad as yours. Mine are at -7.5 with a bit of astigmatism and -8. I also have never been able to get contacts in.
I checked out the 3DS at BestBuy today and it was interesting. Once I got it at a good angle it worked quite well, better than I thought it would.
I've had mixed results with 3D movies, some work just fine and give me no problems and others give me a bit of a headache.
 
I'm on board for this craziness. Pre-ordered the black one from Amazon. Bummer that I'll get it on monday, but at least I won't have to scour the neighborhood looking for one on Sunday.
 
Man all these videos and reviews coming in are making it hard to wait for the release, plus my stores not doing a midnight launch :/. At least I got to mess around with one at Best Buy for a while.
 
[quote name='KirbyLovesTacos']One per household Matt. It doesn't matter if you get one of each color. I tried to do that at gamestop and it's a no go.[/QUOTE]

1 per household of each color, yes. That's not why they canceled my order.

[quote name='doctorfaustus']I'm on board for this craziness. Pre-ordered the black one from Amazon. Bummer that I'll get it on monday, but at least I won't have to scour the neighborhood looking for one on Sunday.[/QUOTE]

They ship it on Monday, so even with one day shipping, it won't arrive till Tuesday, unfortunately.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']They ship it on Monday, so even with one day shipping, it won't arrive till Tuesday, unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

I realized that yesterday myself. It's a bummer.
 
[quote name='steve nash']I want one so bad but those colors are fugly so I guess I'm waiting for the xmas bundle[/QUOTE]

that will be christmas of next year as there wont be any bundle for this year
 
Unless the next Animal Crossing has some radically different things, I'm not buying it. City Folk was extremely disappointing because the City was crap.
 
Ah, I skipped City Folk intentionally. I was hyped to high hell for it (was ready to buy the keyboard and everything) but when I heard there was nothing new I passed in anticipation of the next handheld iteration. I am glad I waited and avoided 'burn out.'
 
If you think -8 is bad my uncle has a -9 prescription, at least now they have high index lenses and glasses are really stylish and "in" now so its really not so bad. I come from a family with bad eyes. The only problem is my glasses cost around $300 per pair, but I only have to get a pair every 3 years or 4 if they last a long time which most do.

I'll write back when I find a demo unit, when they start becoming more widespread, but I am just saying I had a really bad experience with a 3D movie. I don't understand it since I have never gotten motion sick any other way, I am 29 years old and I can go on any spinning ride at the fair and not get sick, and I have not found another person my age who can do spinning rides like I can. Most people do roller coasters but have trouble with spinning rides. As for now I think I would rather get on a gravitron than see another 3D movie (the gravitron makes me slightly ill but I have never puked while on it or as a result of it), shame cause the theaters keep forcing 3D movies on us, good thing I am not into movies so there is really nothing I desire to see.

I think I am gonna have to ask my eye doctor about this when I go back, maybe I have more astigmatism than most people, but even then the glasses are supposed to alleviate the problem from what I hear. I won't be able to try the 3DS or a 3D movie without my glasses since I won't be able to see anything if I try that. I was the only person in the theater seemingly having trouble with the 3D effects of the movie, as everyone else was sitting there and watching it just fine.
 
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