Nintendo 3DS - General Discussion Thread
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confoosious
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do you understand the difference between capacity and power?
rechargeable AA is not more powerful than AA and they both are not more powerful than the cells used in electronic devices.
what voltage is the 3ds running at?
(by the way, you realize that no decent electronic device uses AA batteries right? I honestly can't think of a single device i have besides a remote / controller that uses aa batteries anymore.)
rechargeable AA is not more powerful than AA and they both are not more powerful than the cells used in electronic devices.
what voltage is the 3ds running at?
(by the way, you realize that no decent electronic device uses AA batteries right? I honestly can't think of a single device i have besides a remote / controller that uses aa batteries anymore.)
confoosious
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and if it's at 3.7, how many AA batteries would it need? how many rechargeable AAs?
how big do you want the 3DS if you're gonna use AAs with it, rechargeable or not.
how big do you want the 3DS if you're gonna use AAs with it, rechargeable or not.
Batcave Dweller
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I sense some degree of unpleasantness here....I think I'm going to watch the 1980s movie "Batteries Not Included" in a few.... 
Wolfpup
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[quote name='confoosious']and if it's at 3.7, how many AA batteries would it need? how many rechargeable AAs?
how big do you want the 3DS if you're gonna use AAs with it, rechargeable or not.[/QUOTE]
I don't know for sure what it is, but presumably 3-4 AAA or AA batteries would work fine, and provide more power than its current battery does (of course they could also make the proprietary battery multiple times biger, hypothetically).
And yeah, obviously that would make it larger, but personally I don't have a big problem with that. The batteries used in the XL, 3DS, and PSP are all smaller than they could be IMO. If you're someone who wants stuff as small as possible than I guess that would be an issue, but I had no problems with the GBA/original Gameboy, GBC, etc.
EDIT: and actually I love that my digital camera was an earlier one that uses normal batteries...I'd have had to replace it multiple times over if it didn't
/
EDIT2: Realized I mean to say "smaller than they could be" not "smaller than they need to be", since they all apparently have semi-decent battery life. I've personally never run out, though I personally usually game plugged in.
how big do you want the 3DS if you're gonna use AAs with it, rechargeable or not.[/QUOTE]
I don't know for sure what it is, but presumably 3-4 AAA or AA batteries would work fine, and provide more power than its current battery does (of course they could also make the proprietary battery multiple times biger, hypothetically).
And yeah, obviously that would make it larger, but personally I don't have a big problem with that. The batteries used in the XL, 3DS, and PSP are all smaller than they could be IMO. If you're someone who wants stuff as small as possible than I guess that would be an issue, but I had no problems with the GBA/original Gameboy, GBC, etc.
EDIT: and actually I love that my digital camera was an earlier one that uses normal batteries...I'd have had to replace it multiple times over if it didn't
/EDIT2: Realized I mean to say "smaller than they could be" not "smaller than they need to be", since they all apparently have semi-decent battery life. I've personally never run out, though I personally usually game plugged in.
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confoosious
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i must walk away now.
Any time I try to use regular batteries in a high-end electronic device, the batteries are completely drained within a matter of minutes. If I use the absolute best batteries available, I may get a decent amount of use, but only when the device was used normally(like a digital camera. It may end up lasting a week with it being used 3-4 times in that week and only for 15-20 minutes at a time.). Putting the best batteries available in a 3DS just wouldn't last much longer than the original it ships with(not to mention paying up around $10+ a pack). I wish I could offer a scientific explanation as to why this is, but I cannot. Whatever it is you're reading on the packages just doesn't mean what you think it does.
Having the stock rechargeable batteries in electronic devices is one of the better things they've done in the past 10-15 years. It's slicker, easier to deal with and just plain faster to plug something in rather than replace some AA's.
As for the battery issue itself, I fall into the majority Nintendo had in mind with this thing. I play my DS mostly at home, with the occasional usage on the road. I'd hardly ever be in a situation where I'd need it more than 3-4 hours, so it's most certainly not a problem for me. When the inevitable upgrade occurs, I'll just trade up. Sure I'll end up paying a bit more, but I'll have gotten to enjoy it all along instead of waiting and watching.
Having the stock rechargeable batteries in electronic devices is one of the better things they've done in the past 10-15 years. It's slicker, easier to deal with and just plain faster to plug something in rather than replace some AA's.
As for the battery issue itself, I fall into the majority Nintendo had in mind with this thing. I play my DS mostly at home, with the occasional usage on the road. I'd hardly ever be in a situation where I'd need it more than 3-4 hours, so it's most certainly not a problem for me. When the inevitable upgrade occurs, I'll just trade up. Sure I'll end up paying a bit more, but I'll have gotten to enjoy it all along instead of waiting and watching.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='confoosious']i must walk away now.[/QUOTE]
Okay?
[quote name='Mixer236']Any time I try to use regular batteries in a high-end electronic device, the batteries are completely drained within a matter of minutes. If I use the absolute best batteries available, I may get a decent amount of use, but only when the device was used normally(like a digital camera. It may end up lasting a week with it being used 3-4 times in that week and only for 15-20 minutes at a time.). Putting the best batteries available in a 3DS just wouldn't last much longer than the original it ships with(not to mention paying up around $10+ a pack). I wish I could offer a scientific explanation as to why this is, but I cannot. Whatever it is you're reading on the packages just doesn't mean what you think it does.
Having the stock rechargeable batteries in electronic devices is one of the better things they've done in the past 10-15 years. It's slicker, easier to deal with and just plain faster to plug something in rather than replace some AA's. [/quote]
Not sure what devices you're using that give you the option of proprietary lithium or standardized batteries, but I've seen nothing that indicates the claimed MAH ratings aren't more or less right. Heck, there are charging products that use AA batteries to charge proprietary batteries, and even with just two of them they typically provide multiple charges.
(Random example, 3 charges for a normal cell phone with a 950Mah proprietary battery, which is about in line with a couple of alkalines):
http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-...ortable/4505-6448_7-32687778.html#reviewPage1 )
Not sure what the "controversy" is here...these batteries aren't very big, and there's no conspiracy about mah ratings, they're a decent general guide for how much power something has. In the 3DS' case, four typical rechargeable AAs would provide something like 5-6x the run time of Nintendo's battery (if you're using the kind that doesn't quickly lose a charge, at the expense of about 50% less capacity).
Okay?
[quote name='Mixer236']Any time I try to use regular batteries in a high-end electronic device, the batteries are completely drained within a matter of minutes. If I use the absolute best batteries available, I may get a decent amount of use, but only when the device was used normally(like a digital camera. It may end up lasting a week with it being used 3-4 times in that week and only for 15-20 minutes at a time.). Putting the best batteries available in a 3DS just wouldn't last much longer than the original it ships with(not to mention paying up around $10+ a pack). I wish I could offer a scientific explanation as to why this is, but I cannot. Whatever it is you're reading on the packages just doesn't mean what you think it does.
Having the stock rechargeable batteries in electronic devices is one of the better things they've done in the past 10-15 years. It's slicker, easier to deal with and just plain faster to plug something in rather than replace some AA's. [/quote]
Not sure what devices you're using that give you the option of proprietary lithium or standardized batteries, but I've seen nothing that indicates the claimed MAH ratings aren't more or less right. Heck, there are charging products that use AA batteries to charge proprietary batteries, and even with just two of them they typically provide multiple charges.
(Random example, 3 charges for a normal cell phone with a 950Mah proprietary battery, which is about in line with a couple of alkalines):
http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-...ortable/4505-6448_7-32687778.html#reviewPage1 )
Not sure what the "controversy" is here...these batteries aren't very big, and there's no conspiracy about mah ratings, they're a decent general guide for how much power something has. In the 3DS' case, four typical rechargeable AAs would provide something like 5-6x the run time of Nintendo's battery (if you're using the kind that doesn't quickly lose a charge, at the expense of about 50% less capacity).
confoosious
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can you share with us your calculations of how 4 AAs would equal 5-6x the run time of the nintendo battery?
Wolfpup
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[quote name='confoosious']can you share with us your calculations of how 4 AAs would equal 5-6x the run time of the nintendo battery?[/QUOTE]
2000 x4 = 8000
vs
1300 x1 = 1300
that's 6.15x the capacity. That's with batteries that hold their charge much longer than traditional style NiMH. If you use traditional ones with 2800, that's 8.6x the capacity, with the downside that they discharge faster, maybe about 1% per day. (Although maybe the 3DS burns power when off, in which case that's irrelevant.)
2000 x4 = 8000
vs
1300 x1 = 1300
that's 6.15x the capacity. That's with batteries that hold their charge much longer than traditional style NiMH. If you use traditional ones with 2800, that's 8.6x the capacity, with the downside that they discharge faster, maybe about 1% per day. (Although maybe the 3DS burns power when off, in which case that's irrelevant.)
confoosious
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again, you fail to account for power and efficiency.
confoosious
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[quote name='Strell']Holy shit WHAT IS GOING ON IN HERE[/QUOTE]
i'm trying to fix something.
i'm trying to fix something.
The Gamegear had a battery life of a few hours with 6 AA batteries. That was with one screen and a lot less processing being done. AA batteries in electronics are like relics. Plus there are the factors of pollution, not just trash but hazardous waste.
Lithium ion batteries (3DS, smart phones, DSLR cameras) have moderately quick charge time and have a slow discharge rate. They are very light weight and very durable. They can also perform in harsh climates and temperatures. In the long run they are the most cost effective, efficient and environmentally friendly for both parties.
The 3DS uses a 1300 mAh capacity battery, smaller than the iPhone but the largest of any DS version. The system is just an energy vampire. The DS Lite had 1000 mAh and could last a dozen hours. Even without 3D the 3DS will go 8 at best, but take into consideration other factors like sound and processing and it takes its toll as well.
As for the other battery types. Alkaline (standard AA batteries) do offer a lot of power and are reasonably priced but are horrible choice for high drain devices. The Alkaline battery has a continuous drop in voltage as it's being used at a usually high current voltage. With NiMH batteries, they come with the highest capacity but they suffer from a high discharge rate. Even when you are not using them they continue to discharge with 30% rate compared to Li-ions 2%.
I don't know if this adds anything to what has been going on here, since it's mostly off of what I gathered from researching for my DSLR equipment but the 3DS battery life is going to be low until the next version with a higher capacity rolls out.
Pretty much from what I gathered from looking over photography message boards lately, for high drain devices no one will pick AA for their devices unless it's for a back up, last ditch situation. This site isn't pretty but it has a lot of relavant information about battery types:
http://batterydata.com/
Lithium ion batteries (3DS, smart phones, DSLR cameras) have moderately quick charge time and have a slow discharge rate. They are very light weight and very durable. They can also perform in harsh climates and temperatures. In the long run they are the most cost effective, efficient and environmentally friendly for both parties.
The 3DS uses a 1300 mAh capacity battery, smaller than the iPhone but the largest of any DS version. The system is just an energy vampire. The DS Lite had 1000 mAh and could last a dozen hours. Even without 3D the 3DS will go 8 at best, but take into consideration other factors like sound and processing and it takes its toll as well.
As for the other battery types. Alkaline (standard AA batteries) do offer a lot of power and are reasonably priced but are horrible choice for high drain devices. The Alkaline battery has a continuous drop in voltage as it's being used at a usually high current voltage. With NiMH batteries, they come with the highest capacity but they suffer from a high discharge rate. Even when you are not using them they continue to discharge with 30% rate compared to Li-ions 2%.
I don't know if this adds anything to what has been going on here, since it's mostly off of what I gathered from researching for my DSLR equipment but the 3DS battery life is going to be low until the next version with a higher capacity rolls out.
Pretty much from what I gathered from looking over photography message boards lately, for high drain devices no one will pick AA for their devices unless it's for a back up, last ditch situation. This site isn't pretty but it has a lot of relavant information about battery types:
http://batterydata.com/
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[quote name='Wolfpup']
Not sure what devices you're using that give you the option of proprietary lithium or standardized batteries, but I've seen nothing that indicates the claimed MAH ratings aren't more or less right. Heck, there are charging products that use AA batteries to charge proprietary batteries, and even with just two of them they typically provide multiple charges.
(Random example, 3 charges for a normal cell phone with a 950Mah proprietary battery, which is about in line with a couple of alkalines):
http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-...ortable/4505-6448_7-32687778.html#reviewPage1 )
Not sure what the "controversy" is here...these batteries aren't very big, and there's no conspiracy about mah ratings, they're a decent general guide for how much power something has. In the 3DS' case, four typical rechargeable AAs would provide something like 5-6x the run time of Nintendo's battery (if you're using the kind that doesn't quickly lose a charge, at the expense of about 50% less capacity).[/QUOTE]
Like I said, I'm not here to try and argue specifics, just saying what I've seen in my day-to-day experiences. At any rate, I'd rather not have batteries just because I hate dealing with them.
Not sure what devices you're using that give you the option of proprietary lithium or standardized batteries, but I've seen nothing that indicates the claimed MAH ratings aren't more or less right. Heck, there are charging products that use AA batteries to charge proprietary batteries, and even with just two of them they typically provide multiple charges.
(Random example, 3 charges for a normal cell phone with a 950Mah proprietary battery, which is about in line with a couple of alkalines):
http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-...ortable/4505-6448_7-32687778.html#reviewPage1 )
Not sure what the "controversy" is here...these batteries aren't very big, and there's no conspiracy about mah ratings, they're a decent general guide for how much power something has. In the 3DS' case, four typical rechargeable AAs would provide something like 5-6x the run time of Nintendo's battery (if you're using the kind that doesn't quickly lose a charge, at the expense of about 50% less capacity).[/QUOTE]
Like I said, I'm not here to try and argue specifics, just saying what I've seen in my day-to-day experiences. At any rate, I'd rather not have batteries just because I hate dealing with them.
confoosious
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[quote name='Mad D']The Gamegear had a battery life of a few hours with 6 AA batteries. That was with one screen and a lot less processing being done. AA batteries in electronics are like relics. Plus there are the factors of pollution, not just trash but hazardous waste.
Lithium ion batteries (3DS, smart phones, DSLR cameras) have moderately quick charge time and have a slow discharge rate. They are very light weight and very durable. They can also perform in harsh climates and temperatures. In the long run they are the most cost effective, efficient and environmentally friendly for both parties.
The 3DS uses a 1300 mAh capacity battery, smaller than the iPhone but the largest of any DS version. The system is just an energy vampire. The DS Lite had 1000 mAh and could last a dozen hours. Even without 3D the 3DS will go 8 at best, but take into consideration other factors like sound and processing and it takes its toll as well.
As for the other battery types. Alkaline (standard AA batteries) do offer a lot of power and are reasonably priced but are horrible choice for high drain devices. The Alkaline battery has a continuous drop in voltage as it's being used at a usually high current voltage. With NiMH batteries, they come with the highest capacity but they suffer from a high discharge rate. Even when you are not using them they continue to discharge with 30% rate compared to Li-ions 2%.
I don't know if this adds anything to what has been going on since it's mostly off of what I gathered from researching for my DSLR equipment but the 3DS battery life is going to be low until the next version with a higher capacity rolls out.[/QUOTE]
all that, plus the fact that wolfpup completely ignores voltage. a AA battery is 1.5V and the 3DS is most likely at 3.7. It's not just capacity that matters. Although Nimh don't have the highest capacity. my alkalines have more than the off the shelf duracell rechargeables.
[quote name='bmachine']So, when do we talk about the 3DS?[/QUOTE]
just clearing up some misinformation about how the 3DS would be better off using AA batteries.
Lithium ion batteries (3DS, smart phones, DSLR cameras) have moderately quick charge time and have a slow discharge rate. They are very light weight and very durable. They can also perform in harsh climates and temperatures. In the long run they are the most cost effective, efficient and environmentally friendly for both parties.
The 3DS uses a 1300 mAh capacity battery, smaller than the iPhone but the largest of any DS version. The system is just an energy vampire. The DS Lite had 1000 mAh and could last a dozen hours. Even without 3D the 3DS will go 8 at best, but take into consideration other factors like sound and processing and it takes its toll as well.
As for the other battery types. Alkaline (standard AA batteries) do offer a lot of power and are reasonably priced but are horrible choice for high drain devices. The Alkaline battery has a continuous drop in voltage as it's being used at a usually high current voltage. With NiMH batteries, they come with the highest capacity but they suffer from a high discharge rate. Even when you are not using them they continue to discharge with 30% rate compared to Li-ions 2%.
I don't know if this adds anything to what has been going on since it's mostly off of what I gathered from researching for my DSLR equipment but the 3DS battery life is going to be low until the next version with a higher capacity rolls out.[/QUOTE]
all that, plus the fact that wolfpup completely ignores voltage. a AA battery is 1.5V and the 3DS is most likely at 3.7. It's not just capacity that matters. Although Nimh don't have the highest capacity. my alkalines have more than the off the shelf duracell rechargeables.
[quote name='bmachine']So, when do we talk about the 3DS?[/QUOTE]
just clearing up some misinformation about how the 3DS would be better off using AA batteries.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='confoosious']again, you fail to account for power and efficiency.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by "power" and "efficiency"? Of course I'm accounting for power-that's what the rating is for.
[quote name='Mad D']The Gamegear had a battery life of a few hours with 6 AA batteries. That was with one screen and a lot less processing being done[/quote]
You're not accounting for multiple issues.
The Game Gear DREW a lot more power. The performance of the system doesn't tell you how much power it used. I don't what manufacturing process would have been used that far back, but the Game Gear's CPU and GPU and RAM would all be frighteningly large compared to a modern process. They would have drawn a lot more power than today's stuff does. Heck, just in the few years between the PSP revisions, Sony could get the same battery life out of a smaller battery because of smaller die processes. In this case, we're talking TWENTY YEARS between these systems. You could power a modern version of that chipset off a battery for days or weeks most likely.
The screen would be a similar situation-it's a worse screen with worse backlighting, but it would draw more power than something modern.
Heck, if things worked as you're implying, you'd need a coal power station to power an Xbox 360. The Genesis draws like 20 watts if I'm remembering right. Does that mean it's substantially more powerful than the 3DS and PSP? Because that's what you're effectively saying.
Beyond that, battery technology is somewhat better too. Alkalines hold more power. NiMH wasn't even available back then if I'm remembering, and since its introduction has grown by over 50% capacity I think. So even the battery technology is much better, but the main gain is from process technology. 20 years is an eternity for computers.
No they're not. They're better than ever, and nothing's changed in that regard aside from manufacturers doing proprietary and often even sealed batteries now. That doesn't mean it's better for *US*.
All of that would favor using standard batteries, not proprietary lithium. Lithium batteries are more dangerous for the environment than NiMH.
Even if you want lithium and not NiMH, we'd be better off with a standardized format-whether AA, or some new design/size.
NiMH is quick to charge, and the newer design also has a slow discharge rate, which I'm not sure is even relevant in this case.
NiMH is also light weigh, and is more durable.
NiMH has a somewhat better temperature range than lithium. Again, NiMH wins here.
Even assuming that were true, that doesn't preclude manufacturers from having a new standard for them. Proprietary is rarely a positive thing for consumers.
The old style does, but it's not much higher than lithium batteries. The new style is probably comparable or perhaps lower, not sure. I'm not even sure that's relevant for high drain devices like game systems. It matters for stuff like remote controls, where you'd go months or years on a single set.
What do you mean by "power" and "efficiency"? Of course I'm accounting for power-that's what the rating is for.
[quote name='Mad D']The Gamegear had a battery life of a few hours with 6 AA batteries. That was with one screen and a lot less processing being done[/quote]
You're not accounting for multiple issues.
The Game Gear DREW a lot more power. The performance of the system doesn't tell you how much power it used. I don't what manufacturing process would have been used that far back, but the Game Gear's CPU and GPU and RAM would all be frighteningly large compared to a modern process. They would have drawn a lot more power than today's stuff does. Heck, just in the few years between the PSP revisions, Sony could get the same battery life out of a smaller battery because of smaller die processes. In this case, we're talking TWENTY YEARS between these systems. You could power a modern version of that chipset off a battery for days or weeks most likely.
The screen would be a similar situation-it's a worse screen with worse backlighting, but it would draw more power than something modern.
Heck, if things worked as you're implying, you'd need a coal power station to power an Xbox 360. The Genesis draws like 20 watts if I'm remembering right. Does that mean it's substantially more powerful than the 3DS and PSP? Because that's what you're effectively saying.
Beyond that, battery technology is somewhat better too. Alkalines hold more power. NiMH wasn't even available back then if I'm remembering, and since its introduction has grown by over 50% capacity I think. So even the battery technology is much better, but the main gain is from process technology. 20 years is an eternity for computers.
No they're not. They're better than ever, and nothing's changed in that regard aside from manufacturers doing proprietary and often even sealed batteries now. That doesn't mean it's better for *US*.
All of that would favor using standard batteries, not proprietary lithium. Lithium batteries are more dangerous for the environment than NiMH.
Even if you want lithium and not NiMH, we'd be better off with a standardized format-whether AA, or some new design/size.
NiMH is quick to charge, and the newer design also has a slow discharge rate, which I'm not sure is even relevant in this case.
NiMH is also light weigh, and is more durable.
NiMH has a somewhat better temperature range than lithium. Again, NiMH wins here.
Even assuming that were true, that doesn't preclude manufacturers from having a new standard for them. Proprietary is rarely a positive thing for consumers.
The old style does, but it's not much higher than lithium batteries. The new style is probably comparable or perhaps lower, not sure. I'm not even sure that's relevant for high drain devices like game systems. It matters for stuff like remote controls, where you'd go months or years on a single set.
Batcave Dweller
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[quote name='bmachine']So, when do we talk about the 3DS?[/QUOTE]
What is 3DS?
What is 3DS?
Wolfpup
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[quote name='confoosious']all that, plus the fact that wolfpup completely ignores voltage. a AA battery is 1.5V and the 3DS is most likely at 3.7. It's not just capacity that matters.[/QUOTE]
I'm not ignoring anything, and I already addressed this. That's why you use multiple batteries in parallel. That's why the Gameboy needed 4 batteries originally, and 2 eventually.
[quote name='Mixer236']Like I said, I'm not here to try and argue specifics, just saying what I've seen in my day-to-day experiences. At any rate, I'd rather not have batteries just because I hate dealing with them.[/QUOTE]
But day to day experience with what? Like I said, I'm not sure what you'd be using that would give you a choice, and you're dealing with batteries regardless. The only difference is, do you want proprietary, or do you want a standard?
I'm not ignoring anything, and I already addressed this. That's why you use multiple batteries in parallel. That's why the Gameboy needed 4 batteries originally, and 2 eventually.
[quote name='Mixer236']Like I said, I'm not here to try and argue specifics, just saying what I've seen in my day-to-day experiences. At any rate, I'd rather not have batteries just because I hate dealing with them.
[/QUOTE]But day to day experience with what? Like I said, I'm not sure what you'd be using that would give you a choice, and you're dealing with batteries regardless. The only difference is, do you want proprietary, or do you want a standard?
[quote name='Wolfpup']words[/QUOTE]
Could you re-qoute my post please I re edited it but it didn't show up :lol:
I'll just leave with this. Pretty much from what I gathered from looking over photography message boards lately, for high drain devices no one will pick AA for their devices unless it's for a back up, last ditch situation.
Also this site isn't pretty but it has a lot of relavant information about battery types:
http://batterydata.com/
At least take a look at the overview.
Could you re-qoute my post please I re edited it but it didn't show up :lol:
I'll just leave with this. Pretty much from what I gathered from looking over photography message boards lately, for high drain devices no one will pick AA for their devices unless it's for a back up, last ditch situation.
Also this site isn't pretty but it has a lot of relavant information about battery types:
http://batterydata.com/
At least take a look at the overview.
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[quote name='bmachine']I believe it's pronounced "threeds".[/QUOTE]
No way. It's a snake with a crown on its head.
Also, referencing Earthbound in here - even unintentionally - is breaking my heart. Stop breaking my heart. Do you know how many people had to die for me to put it together from their parts?
No way. It's a snake with a crown on its head.
Also, referencing Earthbound in here - even unintentionally - is breaking my heart. Stop breaking my heart. Do you know how many people had to die for me to put it together from their parts?
confoosious
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[quote name='Mad D']
http://batterydata.com/[/QUOTE]
thank you. hopefully wolfpup can read that. I realize now he just doesn't get the whole voltage vs mah thing. just doesn't get it.
strell - i turn the thread back to you, sir.
http://batterydata.com/[/QUOTE]
thank you. hopefully wolfpup can read that. I realize now he just doesn't get the whole voltage vs mah thing. just doesn't get it.
strell - i turn the thread back to you, sir.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='Mad D']Could you re-qoute my post please I re edited it but it didn't show up :lol:[/quote]
Sorry, which one? I'd guess it's gone (unless part is in one of my posts?)
That would be true for alkalines, but not NiMH-and you'd rarely have a choice. Either something's got a proprietary battery, and is probably lithium or NiMH, or it uses standard batteries, in which case you're probably using NiMH, unless you run out and need to use disposables.
Lithium is I guess still a bit denser than NiMH, but they're both better than alkaline, and the two have different characteristics for charging-neither is necessarily better or worse (they almost have opposite "memory" effects so it just depends on usage as to which is 'better'). Environmentally, NiMH is better. Recharge time is equivalent. Useful temperature range, NiMH is a bit better (supposedly can go down to -20, versus 0).
The bad thing with lithium is there aren't standardized lithium rechargeables...and mostly my complaint is the lack of standards. Higher prices, tougher to get replacements once production has stopped, etc.
Sorry, which one? I'd guess it's gone (unless part is in one of my posts?)
That would be true for alkalines, but not NiMH-and you'd rarely have a choice. Either something's got a proprietary battery, and is probably lithium or NiMH, or it uses standard batteries, in which case you're probably using NiMH, unless you run out and need to use disposables.
Lithium is I guess still a bit denser than NiMH, but they're both better than alkaline, and the two have different characteristics for charging-neither is necessarily better or worse (they almost have opposite "memory" effects so it just depends on usage as to which is 'better'). Environmentally, NiMH is better. Recharge time is equivalent. Useful temperature range, NiMH is a bit better (supposedly can go down to -20, versus 0).
The bad thing with lithium is there aren't standardized lithium rechargeables...and mostly my complaint is the lack of standards. Higher prices, tougher to get replacements once production has stopped, etc.
You know I'm pretty sure you could find a way to hard wire four AAs into a battery pack and then solder some wires together to power a 3DS.
So get someone to do it and post your findings. Until then, speculation is pretty ridiculous. This is why the game industry userbase is so annoying these days - there's no longer any common ground, and then you get a bunch of people swearing by something and refusing to budge.
So put up or shut up. It's not exactly rocket science and you could probably do the whole thing in a weekend after a trip to radio shack and asking some simple questions on a board with electric engineers.
Now then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPfFX8Ph4-k
So get someone to do it and post your findings. Until then, speculation is pretty ridiculous. This is why the game industry userbase is so annoying these days - there's no longer any common ground, and then you get a bunch of people swearing by something and refusing to budge.
So put up or shut up. It's not exactly rocket science and you could probably do the whole thing in a weekend after a trip to radio shack and asking some simple questions on a board with electric engineers.
Now then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPfFX8Ph4-k
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='confoosious']thank you. hopefully wolfpup can read that. I realize now he just doesn't get the whole voltage vs mah thing. just doesn't get it..[/QUOTE]
I don't mean to be rude...let's try again...
Regular batteries are used in parallel. Four AAs provide *HIGHER* voltage than is needed.
1.5...or lets use 1.2 x 4 = 4.8.
4.8 is higher than 3.7.
Plus electronics are rejiggered for the batteries they're going to use.
No one is suggesting that a single AA would be used, which is what you keep arguing against.
I don't mean to be rude...let's try again...
Regular batteries are used in parallel. Four AAs provide *HIGHER* voltage than is needed.
1.5...or lets use 1.2 x 4 = 4.8.
4.8 is higher than 3.7.
Plus electronics are rejiggered for the batteries they're going to use.
No one is suggesting that a single AA would be used, which is what you keep arguing against.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Strell']You know I'm pretty sure you could find a way to hard wire four AAs into a battery pack and then solder some wires together to power a 3DS.
So get someone to do it and post your findings. Until then, speculation is pretty ridiculous.[/quote]
There is no speculation. The specs are listed on the various batteries. We know just about exactly how they'll perform because they tell us.
So get someone to do it and post your findings. Until then, speculation is pretty ridiculous.[/quote]
There is no speculation. The specs are listed on the various batteries. We know just about exactly how they'll perform because they tell us.
Its a lot cheaper to buy a replacement lithium ion battery for your device than it is to buy AA's for what its worth, AA's are really expensive now, AA rechargeables are ok and even fun to mess with at times for me at least but unless you have eneloops or the new kind of hybrid ones they don't work that well unless you charge them and intend to use them right away. A replacement lithium ion battery is like $15 on the Nintendo store, imagine how many AA's it would take to equal that if you consider that it can be charged 500 times or more, you are talking hundreds or thousands of AA batteries vs 1 tiny, inexpensive battery pack.
My digital camera uses AA batteries and works fine with them, they don't drain excessively. Its a Panasonic Lumix camera from 2007. Sealed Lithium ion batteries are bad, very bad. Be thankful Nintendo didn't seal the 3DS battery, because they could have. Then you would have to either buy a new system when it dies or send it to Nintendo to repair.
For what its worth I have a 3 AAA battery charger for the PSP and I am able to nearly fully charge a standard PSP 2000's battery (the original factory one) with 3 AAA batteries either rechargeable or fresh alkaline batteries.
My digital camera uses AA batteries and works fine with them, they don't drain excessively. Its a Panasonic Lumix camera from 2007. Sealed Lithium ion batteries are bad, very bad. Be thankful Nintendo didn't seal the 3DS battery, because they could have. Then you would have to either buy a new system when it dies or send it to Nintendo to repair.
For what its worth I have a 3 AAA battery charger for the PSP and I am able to nearly fully charge a standard PSP 2000's battery (the original factory one) with 3 AAA batteries either rechargeable or fresh alkaline batteries.
confoosious
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[quote name='Wolfpup']I don't mean to be rude...let's try again...
Regular batteries are used in parallel. Four AAs provide *HIGHER* voltage than is needed.
1.5...or lets use 1.2 x 4 = 4.8.
4.8 is higher than 3.7.
Plus electronics are rejiggered for the batteries they're going to use.
No one is suggesting that a single AA would be used, which is what you keep arguing against.[/QUOTE]
and each nimh has how much mah? 1500. vs 1300 at 3.7V for the 3DS.
Do the math:
4 x AA NiMH: 4 x 1.2 x 2000 = 9600 (standard consumer)
3ds battery: 3.7* x 1300 = 4810 *probably
How is that "5-6x the battery life" of the 3ds battery? Furthermore the nimh self discharges at a much higher rate than the 3ds battery. Do you expect everyone to buy high capacity eneloops?
Using rechargeable AA batteries for the 3DS is just the worst idea ever. Using alkaline AA batteries is even dumber.
Regular batteries are used in parallel. Four AAs provide *HIGHER* voltage than is needed.
1.5...or lets use 1.2 x 4 = 4.8.
4.8 is higher than 3.7.
Plus electronics are rejiggered for the batteries they're going to use.
No one is suggesting that a single AA would be used, which is what you keep arguing against.[/QUOTE]
and each nimh has how much mah? 1500. vs 1300 at 3.7V for the 3DS.
Do the math:
4 x AA NiMH: 4 x 1.2 x 2000 = 9600 (standard consumer)
3ds battery: 3.7* x 1300 = 4810 *probably
How is that "5-6x the battery life" of the 3ds battery? Furthermore the nimh self discharges at a much higher rate than the 3ds battery. Do you expect everyone to buy high capacity eneloops?
Using rechargeable AA batteries for the 3DS is just the worst idea ever. Using alkaline AA batteries is even dumber.
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[quote name='Strell']....
Are you the type of person that considers ketchup a vegetable serving because it is made out of tomatoes?[/QUOTE]
So I don't get two servings of vegetables by dowsing the crap out of my french fries in ketchup? FML.
In other news, I heard that Nintendo came out with this cool picture-box game thingy.
They call it the 3DS. Because it's got Dual Screens, and it's in 3D!!!!
And you can play games on it!
Discuss!
Are you the type of person that considers ketchup a vegetable serving because it is made out of tomatoes?[/QUOTE]
So I don't get two servings of vegetables by dowsing the crap out of my french fries in ketchup? FML.
In other news, I heard that Nintendo came out with this cool picture-box game thingy.
They call it the 3DS. Because it's got Dual Screens, and it's in 3D!!!!
And you can play games on it!
Discuss!
Batcave Dweller
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='KingDox']What's the next decent game that I'm going to be a non-cag and pay full price for?[/QUOTE]
I'd guess Dead or Alive: Dimensions....will we be forced to buy it on Day 1 so to ensure we get all 28 naughty costume downloads, I wonder?
For me, either that or Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked.
I'd guess Dead or Alive: Dimensions....will we be forced to buy it on Day 1 so to ensure we get all 28 naughty costume downloads, I wonder?
For me, either that or Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked.
[quote name='Strell']You know I'm pretty sure you could find a way to hard wire four AAs into a battery pack and then solder some wires together to power a 3DS. [/QUOTE]
Actually someone did this with the DS Lite and PSP using 4 AA batteries, alkaline though. The life didn't last long as the respective systems stock battery (only a couple hours I think). Read it on a blog like Engadget or Gizmodo, cant remember. It's probably still online.
EDIT:
Looked over this thread one last time before I went to bed (but don't want to derail the thread again) and LWolf you have some things confused.
With multiple cell batteries such as AA the capacity (mAh) does not stack. Having 4, 2000 mAh batteries does not give a total of 8000 capacity. Multiple battery cells are used as a series. The overall mAh comes down to the lowest common denominator in the series so having something like one battery in a group of 4 cells, with one having a lower mAh will bring down the overall capacity since all cells are needed to complete that series.
Capacity only stacks if the batteries are parallel (wired negative to negative, positive to positive) which from what I am reading is what you are calling other peoples examples when it is actually what you are giving as an example.
Voltage is cumulative and that leads to the capacity (mAh) drainage rate being quicker as seen in the equation Confoocious posted for the actual energy usage, watt hours.
I'm not picking sides with the nimh AA (Eneloops, which I do use for low usage things like my mouse) vs li-ion battery discussion anymore but I'd just like to pass that information along.
Actually someone did this with the DS Lite and PSP using 4 AA batteries, alkaline though. The life didn't last long as the respective systems stock battery (only a couple hours I think). Read it on a blog like Engadget or Gizmodo, cant remember. It's probably still online.
EDIT:
Looked over this thread one last time before I went to bed (but don't want to derail the thread again) and LWolf you have some things confused.
With multiple cell batteries such as AA the capacity (mAh) does not stack. Having 4, 2000 mAh batteries does not give a total of 8000 capacity. Multiple battery cells are used as a series. The overall mAh comes down to the lowest common denominator in the series so having something like one battery in a group of 4 cells, with one having a lower mAh will bring down the overall capacity since all cells are needed to complete that series.
Capacity only stacks if the batteries are parallel (wired negative to negative, positive to positive) which from what I am reading is what you are calling other peoples examples when it is actually what you are giving as an example.
Voltage is cumulative and that leads to the capacity (mAh) drainage rate being quicker as seen in the equation Confoocious posted for the actual energy usage, watt hours.
I'm not picking sides with the nimh AA (Eneloops, which I do use for low usage things like my mouse) vs li-ion battery discussion anymore but I'd just like to pass that information along.
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Whoa, I knew about Mask of Miracle, but I'd never seen this before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY4gtoyLpqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY4gtoyLpqE
utopianmachine
Nintendo Fangirl
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[quote name='KingDox']Ok Lets get this train back on track here.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? What's the next decent game that I'm going to be a non-cag and pay full price for?[/QUOTE]
I thought the upcoming Rayman Raving Rabbids: Rabbids Travel in Time or somethign for 3DS looked good. It's not a port of the Wii version. It's more like a whole, platforming adventure.
Doesn't mean I'd buy it though. Comes out the 10th. I'm interested to see if that $25 Amazon credit a lot of us got for the 3DS will work on it, as it's the first 3DS game to come out after the launch titles.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? What's the next decent game that I'm going to be a non-cag and pay full price for?[/QUOTE]
I thought the upcoming Rayman Raving Rabbids: Rabbids Travel in Time or somethign for 3DS looked good. It's not a port of the Wii version. It's more like a whole, platforming adventure.
Doesn't mean I'd buy it though. Comes out the 10th. I'm interested to see if that $25 Amazon credit a lot of us got for the 3DS will work on it, as it's the first 3DS game to come out after the launch titles.
FatBoyInside
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='KingDox']Ok Lets get this train back on track here.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? [/QUOTE]
Here's a list of upcoming 3DS titles to get you up to speed. I'm personally waiting for the Zelda 3D port in June, but if there's a sweet deal or pre-order promo for DOA in May...then I'm game for that, too.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? [/QUOTE]
Here's a list of upcoming 3DS titles to get you up to speed. I'm personally waiting for the Zelda 3D port in June, but if there's a sweet deal or pre-order promo for DOA in May...then I'm game for that, too.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='confoosious']and each nimh has how much mah? 1500. vs 1300 at 3.7V for the 3DS. [/quote]
1500? My batteries from 2002 are bigger than that. 2000 is standard for the new type that don't discharge fast. 2800 is standard for the old style.
You don't multiple MAH times the voltage. The voltage is cumulative with batteries in parallel. If you're using 4x NiMH, that's 4.8-5.6ish. That's not connected with the MAH they provide.
Because the voltage has nothing to do with it. It's
2000 to 2800 x 4 = 8000 to 11,200
vs
1300 = 1300
That's 6.15 to 8.6x the power.
Okay, first, that's not necessarily relevant as the 3DS is a high drain device, and aside from that may be draining in off mode, and certainly is with the sleep mode active. Secondly, even then the discharge rate is something like 10% versus 30%/month:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/whats_the_best_battery
Thirdly, that's for the old style, not the new style which holds its charge longer.
Or the equivalent. Sure, why not?
Again, why? They provide more power at a cheaper cost, and are non-proprietary. The trade off is they'd take up more room. I don't see how that makes them "the worst idea ever".
[quote name='SaraAB']Its a lot cheaper to buy a replacement lithium ion battery for your device than it is to buy AA's for what its worth[/quote]
No it's not. NiMH batteries are cheaper-both because they're cheaper to produce, and because they're non-proprietary.
No, they're cheaper, and provide more power, and provide the same sort of lifespan:
http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Char...A60I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302136833&sr=8-1
Yeah, I hate proprietary batteries, and I hate sealed even more. The NGP is PERFECT...except for the sealed batteries. There's actually a chance I won't buy one because of that. I don't know. I probably will though because I can't resist gadgets/ :lol:
[quote name='utopianmachine']I thought the upcoming Rayman Raving Rabbids: Rabbids Travel in Time or somethign for 3DS looked good. It's not a port of the Wii version. It's more like a whole, platforming adventure.[/quote]
Wait, so you're saying this is an actual game, not some minigame collection? I loved Rabbids Go Home, and was super disapointed that the next game was just another mini-game collection. Although on the other hand if it was just a stop gap while a real full game was being developed, that would be cool! The Wii's got some pretty cool, unique platformers-The Munchables and Rabbids Go Home (alone with Galaxy of course and NSMB) are really awesome.
1500? My batteries from 2002 are bigger than that. 2000 is standard for the new type that don't discharge fast. 2800 is standard for the old style.
You don't multiple MAH times the voltage. The voltage is cumulative with batteries in parallel. If you're using 4x NiMH, that's 4.8-5.6ish. That's not connected with the MAH they provide.
Because the voltage has nothing to do with it. It's
2000 to 2800 x 4 = 8000 to 11,200
vs
1300 = 1300
That's 6.15 to 8.6x the power.
Okay, first, that's not necessarily relevant as the 3DS is a high drain device, and aside from that may be draining in off mode, and certainly is with the sleep mode active. Secondly, even then the discharge rate is something like 10% versus 30%/month:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/whats_the_best_battery
Thirdly, that's for the old style, not the new style which holds its charge longer.
Or the equivalent. Sure, why not?
Again, why? They provide more power at a cheaper cost, and are non-proprietary. The trade off is they'd take up more room. I don't see how that makes them "the worst idea ever".
[quote name='SaraAB']Its a lot cheaper to buy a replacement lithium ion battery for your device than it is to buy AA's for what its worth[/quote]
No it's not. NiMH batteries are cheaper-both because they're cheaper to produce, and because they're non-proprietary.
No, they're cheaper, and provide more power, and provide the same sort of lifespan:
http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Char...A60I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302136833&sr=8-1
Yeah, I hate proprietary batteries, and I hate sealed even more. The NGP is PERFECT...except for the sealed batteries. There's actually a chance I won't buy one because of that. I don't know. I probably will though because I can't resist gadgets
/ :lol:[quote name='utopianmachine']I thought the upcoming Rayman Raving Rabbids: Rabbids Travel in Time or somethign for 3DS looked good. It's not a port of the Wii version. It's more like a whole, platforming adventure.[/quote]
Wait, so you're saying this is an actual game, not some minigame collection? I loved Rabbids Go Home, and was super disapointed that the next game was just another mini-game collection. Although on the other hand if it was just a stop gap while a real full game was being developed, that would be cool! The Wii's got some pretty cool, unique platformers-The Munchables and Rabbids Go Home (alone with Galaxy of course and NSMB) are really awesome.
confoosious
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='KingDox']Ok Lets get this train back on track here.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? What's the next decent game that I'm going to be a non-cag and pay full price for?[/QUOTE]
the professor layton / ace attorney game will get all my monies. is there a release date for this?
edit: just saw fatboyinside's list. guess no date for it yet. fantastic list by the way.
[quote name='Wolfpup']
Because the voltage has nothing to do with it. It's
2000 to 2800 x 4 = 8000 to 11,200
vs
1300 = 1300
That's 6.15 to 8.6x the power.
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
wow. just wow. Seriously dude? Are you serious with this stuff? Tell me you're just messing with me. Is this some version of the Truman show that i'm not getting?
This is... just wow.
When do the next batch of DS games come out? What's the next decent game that I'm going to be a non-cag and pay full price for?[/QUOTE]
the professor layton / ace attorney game will get all my monies. is there a release date for this?
edit: just saw fatboyinside's list. guess no date for it yet. fantastic list by the way.
[quote name='Wolfpup']
Because the voltage has nothing to do with it. It's
2000 to 2800 x 4 = 8000 to 11,200
vs
1300 = 1300
That's 6.15 to 8.6x the power.
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
wow. just wow. Seriously dude? Are you serious with this stuff? Tell me you're just messing with me. Is this some version of the Truman show that i'm not getting?
This is... just wow.
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[quote name='FatBoyInside']Here's a list of upcoming 3DS titles to get you up to speed. I'm personally waiting for the Zelda 3D port in June, but if there's a sweet deal or pre-order promo for DOA in May...then I'm game for that, too.[/QUOTE]
I'm saving my $15 credit from Amazon for MLB 2k11 for Zelda.
I'm saving my $15 credit from Amazon for MLB 2k11 for Zelda.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='confoosious']
wow. just wow. Seriously dude? Are you serious with this stuff? Tell me you're just messing with me. Is this some version of the Truman show that i'm not getting?
This is... just wow.[/QUOTE]
What is "wow" about it? What are you not understanding? The math's right there. The various batteries are clearly labeled. There's no guessing, no assumptions, no nothing-it says it right on it.
wow. just wow. Seriously dude? Are you serious with this stuff? Tell me you're just messing with me. Is this some version of the Truman show that i'm not getting?
This is... just wow.[/QUOTE]
What is "wow" about it? What are you not understanding? The math's right there. The various batteries are clearly labeled. There's no guessing, no assumptions, no nothing-it says it right on it.
Batcave Dweller
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='utopianmachine']I thought the upcoming Rayman Raving Rabbids: Rabbids Travel in Time or somethign for 3DS looked good. It's not a port of the Wii version. It's more like a whole, platforming adventure.
Doesn't mean I'd buy it though. Comes out the 10th. I'm interested to see if that $25 Amazon credit a lot of us got for the 3DS will work on it, as it's the first 3DS game to come out after the launch titles.[/QUOTE]
You made me go read the IGN preview of that game and it did surprise me that it's going to be the first-ever side-scrolling platformer adventure for the franchise. I love those types of side-scrollers (Mischief Makers being a favorite of mine for the N64). I'll have to consider that a possible buy if it gets decent reviews.
It's Wabbit Season!
Doesn't mean I'd buy it though. Comes out the 10th. I'm interested to see if that $25 Amazon credit a lot of us got for the 3DS will work on it, as it's the first 3DS game to come out after the launch titles.[/QUOTE]
You made me go read the IGN preview of that game and it did surprise me that it's going to be the first-ever side-scrolling platformer adventure for the franchise. I love those types of side-scrollers (Mischief Makers being a favorite of mine for the N64). I'll have to consider that a possible buy if it gets decent reviews.
It's Wabbit Season!
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Batcave Dweller']You made me go read the IGN preview of that game and it did surprise me that it's going to be the first-ever side-scrolling platformer adventure for the franchise. I love those types of side-scrollers (Mischief Maker being a favorite of mine for the N64). I'll have to consider that a possible buy if it gets decent reviews.
It's Wabbit Season![/QUOTE]
Whoa, cool. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Utopia! I'll have to check out reviews-could be a purchase for me. I just naturally assumed it was some minigame collection (or PORT of a minigame collection!)
I kind of liked Yuka Yuka Trouble Makers too I remember I bought it off a friend who shipped it cross country, as I couldn't even find it locally.
It's Wabbit Season![/QUOTE]
Whoa, cool. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Utopia! I'll have to check out reviews-could be a purchase for me. I just naturally assumed it was some minigame collection (or PORT of a minigame collection!)
I kind of liked Yuka Yuka Trouble Makers too
I remember I bought it off a friend who shipped it cross country, as I couldn't even find it locally.
confoosious
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[quote name='Wolfpup']What is "wow" about it? What are you not understanding? The math's right there. The various batteries are clearly labeled. There's no guessing, no assumptions, no nothing-it says it right on it.[/QUOTE]
here, read this, and then go away:
my last battery post. apologies to everyone.
here, read this, and then go away:
my last battery post. apologies to everyone.
Last edited by a moderator:
utopianmachine
Nintendo Fangirl
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[quote name='Wolfpup']Wait, so you're saying this is an actual game, not some minigame collection? I loved Rabbids Go Home, and was super disapointed that the next game was just another mini-game collection. Although on the other hand if it was just a stop gap while a real full game was being developed, that would be cool! The Wii's got some pretty cool, unique platformers-The Munchables and Rabbids Go Home (alone with Galaxy of course and NSMB) are really awesome.[/QUOTE]
I enjoyed Rabbids Go Home too, so I'm looking forward to this one, Rabbids Travel in Time. Enjoy the trailer. It's pretty cute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTXqvU9yMSQ
I enjoyed Rabbids Go Home too, so I'm looking forward to this one, Rabbids Travel in Time. Enjoy the trailer. It's pretty cute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTXqvU9yMSQ
[quote name='Wolfpup']How polite you are?
Again, these are in parallel. No one is comparing this to a single battery. Even if what you're implying were true, NiMH would STILL have over double the capacity at a cheaper price.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't one battery, it's 4.
Again, these are in parallel. No one is comparing this to a single battery. Even if what you're implying were true, NiMH would STILL have over double the capacity at a cheaper price.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't one battery, it's 4.
bread's done