Nintendo E3 2012 Week (CHAT IS UP)

[quote name='Corvin']I thought NSMB was very very good, but Rayman: Origins was 10x the game NSMB was. Needless to say Rayman: Legends has my attention, NSMB2-notsomuch.[/QUOTE]

This. I hope Rayman Legends is a launch title.
 
I didn't really care for the admittedly very little of Rayman Origins I played. No doubt it's pretty and I'll give it another go soon, but . . . meh. NSMB I loved the hell out of, however. DKCR is excellent too.
 
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[quote name='io']Accounts: check!
No Friend codes: check!

That's two biggies. If they go with NintendoLand as a pack-in (which he says they haven't decided yet) then that is another plus.

From other sources:

Ability to tranfer WiiWare titles: BIG check! (and probably enough for me to get one at launch vs. waiting)
Pikmin 3: check (If NintendoLand is a pack-in and I can buy Pikmin at or near launch, that's all I need)

I'm encouraged - though of course much more detail needs to come out.[/QUOTE]

The transfer part includes VC games and saves too. It was confirmed last night, and backs up what I said my source told me a while back in the 'Wii U, where are you?' thread.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']The transfer part includes VC games and saves too. It was confirmed last night, and backs up what I said my source told me a while back in the 'Wii U, where are you?' thread.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I wasn't differentiating between WiiWare and VC - I just used "WiiWare" to mean whatever you bought from the Nintendo Store or whatever they call that thing on the Wii. It has been so long since I've been on there I forgot the details ;). I assumed they would all go - but good that there is specific confirmation on VC titles nonetheless as that is most of what I have. I think I only have World of Goo (which ganked my original system's memory up making me lose SSBB saves among others and I have yet to play the Wii much since then as a result) and one other non-VC title.
 
[quote name='dallow']
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I don't get the 3DS hate. They showed a bunch of 3DS games that look amazing and for the most part are coming out this year. It beats the other conferences by a mile.
 
What game of Wii U that they have showed thus far are you most excited about? for me it has to be Pikmin 3, I've never played any of the others but it just looks awesome
 
^ Absolutely. I played the first one and dabbled with the second despite it being pretty much the first game I bought as a "cheapass" (using a Blockbuster trade-in deal I found out about on CAG). I was thinking of revisiting one or the other here soon so the timing on Pikmin 3 should be perfect. It won't be a mass-appeal, system-seller type of game though.

[quote name='Josh5890']I don't get the 3DS hate. They showed a bunch of 3DS games that look amazing and for the most part are coming out this year. It beats the other conferences by a mile.[/QUOTE]

I actually watched this one live and haven't watched any of the others so I can't really compare. But ths one for the most part was pretty boring (presentation-wise) - but I agree that there are some great games coming out and they showed some of those so I'm not sure what the hastily-created GIF is all about either ;).
 
I didn't think I would be saying this after E3 but my most anticipated game now is Rayman: Legends. Seeing Ubisoft's use of the gamepad made me very excited. Pikmin is 2 and NSMBWU is a close 3rd.
 
[quote name='Josh5890']I didn't think I would be saying this after E3 but my most anticipated game now is Rayman: Legends. Seeing Ubisoft's use of the gamepad made me very excited. Pikmin is 2 and NSMBWU is a close 3rd.[/QUOTE]

That Rayman style with the music too is great, I shall be getting that as well,
 
[quote name='pacemakerguy']What game of Wii U that they have showed thus far are you most excited about? for me it has to be Pikmin 3, I've never played any of the others but it just looks awesome[/QUOTE]
Get the first two games now.
They're wonderful games.
[quote name='Josh5890']I don't get the 3DS hate. They showed a bunch of 3DS games that look amazing and for the most part are coming out this year. It beats the other conferences by a mile.[/QUOTE]

There was nothing new aside from the awful 3D video skit thing.
I was expecting new and exiting stuff, not games I've known about for ages with control explanations.
 
[quote name='dallow']Get the first two games now.
They're wonderful games. [/quote]

Watching Pikmin 3 has me curious about the first two games. It looks way too cute. I think it is a good move that they are putting out Pikmin 2 after this conference.

There was nothing new aside from the awful 3D video skit thing.
I was expecting new and exiting stuff, not games I've known about for ages with control explanations.
Click to expand...

I think part of that was Nintendo's fault. They kinda hyped up the 3DS conference in their main presser, and then we found out that they didn't have much more to say beyond what they did say in that conference. That being said, the games look solid.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Watching Pikmin 3 has me curious about the first two games. It looks way too cute. I think it is a good move that they are putting out Pikmin 2 after this conference.[/QUOTE]

Both Pikmin games are absolutely fantastic and must-plays. I played through each game 2+ times and will probably do so again at some point.
 
Yup.
The Wii has a re-release of the first game out already, and the re-release of the 2nd game is coming soon.
Everyone should play these games. They're just so fun!

Depending on price of Wii U, I'd buy it just for Pikmin 3.
 
[quote name='Corvin']I thought NSMB was very very good, but Rayman: Origins was 10x the game NSMB was. Needless to say Rayman: Legends has my attention, NSMB2-notsomuch.[/QUOTE]

You're overrating each by quite a bit, though it's hard to blame you for it as they seem to be generally overrated by fans and critics. I think RO gets a little more praise because people were surprised by it and because, well, it's Rayman. Shit's goofy, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

Have you played all the way through RO? It is similar to NSMBW in that the controls aren't what they should be for a "great" platformer. Anyhow, they're both good games, although it's hard to accept merely good in the case of NSMB. This was their first 2D console platformer in a while. It should have been much better. The biggest point is that the controls should have been tighter (with alternate, no-shake control options).

Also, the co-op MP shouldn't have been a major marketing point, just window dressing. I don't hold it against the title, but it certainly doesn't add anything to the platforming experience other than one of either "Why are you jumping on my head?" or "Yes, I should jump on Joe's head and send him to his death ." It's fun the first time. Then it's a huge pain in the ass. Coin collectathon doesn't make it compelling.
 
Completely agree on Pikmin 1 and 2. Such fantastic titles that too few people have played.

I heard the Wii controls actually made things worse though. Glad I still have my GCN copies.
 
It's subjective.

I played so much Pikmin 1 and 2 on the cube that I really and truly prefer the cube controls. Plenty of folks absolutely rave about the pointers though.
 
I was just thinking.

If I were in Sony's marketing department right now, I'd ressurect the "U R NOT E" tag line and use that to attack the U.
 
[quote name='Josh5890']I don't get the 3DS hate. They showed a bunch of 3DS games that look amazing and for the most part are coming out this year. It beats the other conferences by a mile.[/QUOTE]

Yeah roll that video clip of 5 shovel ware games. Hey guys we have transformers!
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon']It's a "red E"

I had completely forgotten about that whole campaign.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that's not at all intuitive. Here I thought it was "You are naughty" :lol:.
 
I honestly thought the 3DS had the most exciting pure games presentation of the show, and it was just games, no bullshit. That being said, it was a pretty weak year for everyone, should've been easy for Nintendo to clean up with the Wii U and they failed. I am sure the Wii U will be a solid system, but I'm not seeing the unique experiences you got with the Wii.
 
I think if they had just played the Luigi's Mansion game and not talked about it, people would've gone 'oh, that's cool. I get it.' You know, 4 players looking for an invisible ghost they can't see on-screen like they could if it was normal split-screen gaming.

I also think it would've helped if they had shown old games fitted to the control pad, just to give a better idea of what it may be like in a few different scenarios. Also, show that VC games can be played on the Gamepad as well as the TV (This was confirmed, btw, and it sounds awesome). Showing people something is a better way to get them to understand it than telling them.
 
I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say the Wii U won't sell like the Wii did and Nintendo is expecting it to.

For one thing, Nintendo sees tablets taking off so they make their own pseudo tablet. They just don't get what makes tablets popular. People don't buy them to be dumb terminals or controllers for other things. They stand alone on their own merit and if conectivity is possible with other devices then that is an added feature, it isn't the main event.

To make matters worse, Nintendo is marketing this as a porting console yet the other consoles will be replaced next year and it won't be able to run next gen games! That means it has a year of games before next gen is released then another year or two while games are released for both generations then that's it.

Of the people that want to play core games, how many of them don't already have an Xbox or ps?
 
I actually think there will be an opportunity there though, many companies are struggling to make current gen games as is with budgets being so huge, if Nintendo could court a lot of smaller developers it could be a big opportunity to see some really unique stuff on there. That could've happened with the Wii had it not been buried in shovelware and had they actually supported Wiiware like they were supposed to. Hopefully they'll fix that this time around.
 
I think Nintendo knows what they're doing with the tablet, and understands what its' all about. However, they really didn't show much of anything in terms of gaming that made it interesting at E3. They wanted to do this thing for the Wii instead of the Remote but thought it was too costly. Here...I want to say they see it as a bridge from casual to core stuff, but I don't see how successful it can be.

And no, no one's expecting Wii U to sell as much as Wii.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think Nintendo knows what they're doing with the tablet, and understands what its' all about. However, they really didn't show much of anything in terms of gaming that made it interesting at E3.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the first sentence is necessarily true given your second sentence. If the Wii experience (minus Wii Sports) was an indicator -- and why shouldn't it be? -- it'll be a while before the tablet is incorporated meaningfully into gameplay.

For now, the demos they're showing have it as an HD version of things done long ago with GC-GBA connectivity (e.g. the Pac Man title, FFCC) or a gussied-up second screen ala DS. Neither of these suggest to me that they understand what it's all about, but rather they're just trying to cram tablet features into any available title.

I excluded Wii Sports because it (or rather, the idea of it) is the essential difference between the Wii launch and the WIIU launch. Wii Sports couldn't have existed without motion control -- motion control absolutely made the game -- whereas these arbitrary titles for the WIIU launch don't really *need* the tablet at all. You can easily imagine playing WIIU titles without the tablet.
 
[quote name='Blaster man']I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say the Wii U won't sell like the Wii did and Nintendo is expecting it to.[/QUOTE]

It won't even sell 1/2 of what the Wii sold. Write it down.
 
I think Nintendo's problem is from a marketing/communication standpoint, something they seem to have had for 2 years running. They really need to break it down, and explain it on the most simple terms:

- True Splitscreen Multiplayer

How hard is it to say that? I mean, honestly. I know you can't do it with 4-players, but the idea that you could play against your friend locally without them knowing where you are on a map is a great idea. Just imagine a game sending 2 images (one to each screen) for a local match. It seems sort of obvious, doesn't it?
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think Nintendo's problem is from a marketing/communication standpoint, something they seem to have had for 2 years running. They really need to break it down, and explain it on the most simple terms:

- True Splitscreen Multiplayer

How hard is it to say that? I mean, honestly. I know you can't do it with 4-players, but the idea that you could play against your friend locally without them knowing where you are on a map is a great idea. Just imagine a game sending 2 images (one to each screen) for a local match. It seems sort of obvious, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

The GC-GBA Pac-Man game had something very similar to this. GBA dude was Pac-Man. GC controllers were ghosts and saw a limited view on a split-screen. Note that this wasn't like FFCC, which required a shitload of GBA controllers (i.e. $$$). You just needed one GBA and a cable. It was okay, and sales held that up. (I believe Miyamoto was involved in that one, too.)

The fact that they're retreading this isn't reassuring. They've already talked in the Iwata Asks series about how the Wii and the Tablet are effectively ideas that came about during R&D for the GC/Dolphin. And it furthers the point against your assertion that "Nintendo knows what they're doing here." It looks to me like they're burning through old R&D and not putting much into new R&D.

And "True splitscreen MP" is not a system seller in the form they have it right now. I realize there were obstacles to the GC Pac-Man catching on, but I don't think the concept is going to find a more accepting audience because it's 8 years later and one of every 2-4 participants is holding a tablet instead of a GBA.

EDIT: And I don't mean to be a downer, and I don't mean to suggest that they can't or shouldn't refresh old R&D. It's just, like you said Broly, if you're trying to sell the WIIU, lead with the stuff you can't do anywhere else but on the WIIU! The fact that they aren't doing this isn't the trifle you make it out to be IMO.

If they had a Wii Sports-type system seller, we'd have seen it at one of the past two E3s they bungled. Instead we're getting a lot of demos and handwaving.
 
The thing about Wii Sports is that we didn't know it was the system seller until it was too late. We thought 'hey, that's nice of Nintendo to pack in a game, but I'm not buying it because of that. I'm buying the Wii cuz of Zelda.'

Nintendo Land might do the same if they have some kind of plan for it beyond launch, like adding DLC for franchises like Star Fox which becomes a "New Attraction" for it.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']The thing about Wii Sports is that we didn't know it was the system seller until it was too late. We thought 'hey, that's nice of Nintendo to pack in a game, but I'm not buying it because of that. I'm buying the Wii cuz of Zelda.'[/QUOTE]
You're speaking for a very narrow segment of Wii owners. I have two siblings who bought a Wii on Wii Bowling alone, another because she saw Conando playing Wii Tennis with someone on TV. You can't separate Wii Sports from the Wii's unexpected success at launch.

Without a title like that, the WIIU will be a slow burn at best. They've made slow burns work out in the past -- the DS took a while to build, and the 3DS didn't have a great start. However, it might be tougher this time around, I think the tablet (and the system name) is really going to confuse people. And again, without a good title to show off the novelty of the tablet, it's a tough start.

I don't think Nintendo Land is that title -- the circle-jerky, self-referential nature of it already excludes the people who had a Wii for Wii Sports but not really much else.
 
Yeah I worked at Best Buy up until last year and people who weren't gamers often seemed unaware that was a game system with multiple titles, they honestly thought Wii Sports was pretty much it.
 
I was just playing Wii Sports and remembering when they first showed it off, it was amazing with the motion controls and really got you moving. Now I understand what people are saying with the Gamepad didn't interest much and I agree when they showed Pikmin 3 I was surprised after them showing that the game really should be used with the Wiimote, if so what does the game pad have to do with anything for it? I seems that you just use it for a map which is dumb. I really hope this is a big thing and works out for them.
 
[quote name='pacemakerguy']I was just playing Wii Sports and remembering when they first showed it off, it was amazing with the motion controls and really got you moving. Now I understand what people are saying with the Gamepad didn't interest much and I agree when they showed Pikmin 3 I was surprised after them showing that the game really should be used with the Wiimote, if so what does the game pad have to do with anything for it? I seems that you just use it for a map which is dumb. I really hope this is a big thing and works out for them.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you can play with either, which they talked about during the press conference. This guy tried it out with both controllers.

http://kotaku.com/5916274/pikmin-3-plays-well-but-im-not-sure-which-controller-is-best-for-it

Sounds like there is still some work ahead for Nintendo nailing things down, which is the general impression I got from E3. I can understand people viewing that as problematic, but I prefer to wait and see until Nintendo does nail things down to see if it is an issue. Personally, as with any new console, I expect there will be teething issues.

What is the real issue is that there is a problem for the next generation of consoles for making a good argument to buy another console. I personally don't think a simple tech upgrade is going to be good enough for a lot of people, who might have a problem seeing much improvement over the current generation tech.

So, you need a hook. We'll see if Nintendo's hook is good enough to attract people to the WiiU. Personally, I think it looks interesting and bears watching. But, since I'm one of those with a huge backlog on all of my gaming platforms, I don't see myself making the plunge anytime soon, even with a killer app.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']

So, you need a hook. We'll see if Nintendo's hook is good enough to attract people to the WiiU. Personally, I think it looks interesting and bears watching. But, since I'm one of those with a huge backlog on all of my gaming platforms, I don't see myself making the plunge anytime soon, even with a killer app.[/QUOTE]

I see myself getting this but perhaps not the next 360/PS quite so soon. We'll see though.

As for the whole tablet discussion several posts back, I actually think it is pretty smart of them to add this in now. It might be a recycled idea or it might not but I think it wouldn't have worked as well when the Wii was launched. For one thing, tablet technology wasn't nearly as good. But also, people weren't so used to them. Now, tons of people are exposed to them and used to touchscreen devices. So I actually think it will be a natural thing for many "casuals" to pick up and play. I think it is pretty well-timed in fact. In my son's 6th grade class, for example, each student has an iPad they use for part of the day (the otherwise fairly poor school district got a grant a year or two to stock a few of the older elementary school classes with them). And hell, I just used a touch screen drink dispenser at the Noodle restaurant tonight (brand new - it has tons of soda flavors all selectable from a touch screen interface).

Now whether those people that bought a Wii for Wii Sports and a handful of other games will think it is worth getting a Wii U is another question. And there may be many more issues for them to overcome (the name, the launch lineup, 3rd party support, etc), but I think putting Nintendo down for the tablet controller is reaching for straws.

And here's an issue I have not seen discussed one single bit either here or on any other gaming sites: what the hell will this thing have for storage? I remember it being a big issue when we found out Nintendo had a miniscule amount of flash memory built into the Wii. Are they going to stick with that (and SD cards) but count on higher capacity/cheaper prices allowing for more online-related stuff (DLC, patches, etc)? Or are they going hard drive this time?
 
[quote name='Erad30']Yeah I worked at Best Buy up until last year and people who weren't gamers often seemed unaware that was a game system with multiple titles, they honestly thought Wii Sports was pretty much it.[/QUOTE]

That's...really surprising. You think they would've noticed all of those games with "Wii" on the box in stores as a giveaway.
 
[quote name='io']And here's an issue I have not seen discussed one single bit either here or on any other gaming sites: what the hell will this thing have for storage? I remember it being a big issue when we found out Nintendo had a miniscule amount of flash memory built into the Wii. Are they going to stick with that (and SD cards) but count on higher capacity/cheaper prices allowing for more online-related stuff (DLC, patches, etc)? Or are they going hard drive this time?[/QUOTE]

8GB of internal flash memory. I believe Iwata made comments that we'll be able to use flash cards (again. yay.) as well as external hard drives. Can't wait to finally put that humping dog USB stick to good use.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Actually, you can play with either, which they talked about during the press conference. This guy tried it out with both controllers.

http://kotaku.com/5916274/pikmin-3-plays-well-but-im-not-sure-which-controller-is-best-for-it
[/QUOTE]
I'm taking from this that P3 is being done like LoZ:TP was done. Developed for one system, held back to be released on its successor, even though the successor uses an entirely different game control. I think the fact that the writer isn't certain which to use can't possibly be viewed positively. (And note that the reviewer's impression of Tablet control for P3 is similar or slightly more positive than others, who've flat-out stated that the tablet doesn't hold up to the Wii controls.) So all of this is a bad thing, not necessarily for P3 but for early impressions of the tablet controller. What's the cause of it? As I trust Nintendo to put good effort into their titles, I think it comes directly from P3 being designed and built for the Wii.

I disagree with the decision to hold back titles like this, I don't think it ever fares well, there's always something missing in the limited cases I can think of (TP, SPM, ??). Just release the game for the system it was designed and built for, then note on the packaging "Fully compatible with newly released WIIU system!" or something. But DON'T DON'T DON'T tack on functionality for the new controller in the game and release it on the new system, it's a bad idea from the start.

I suppose the only positive in this is that Nintendo learned from the TP waggle fiasco, and they're allowing alternate (i.e. last gen) methods of control. Then again, I shouldn't give them too much credit, as by design the WIIU is intended to be used with last gen controllers for all but one player. It sounds negative when I state it that way. It's not, I see why they do it. For the Wii, I'm glad they supported GC the way they did, I wish they'd have done it even more so and (for instance) supported GC controls in TP. I'm still pissed about that.
 
[quote name='dothog']I disagree with the decision to hold back titles like this, I don't think it ever fares well, there's always something missing in the limited cases I can think of (TP, SPM, ??). Just release the game for the system it was designed and built for, then note on the packaging "Fully compatible with newly released WIIU system!" or something.[/QUOTE]
I just wanted to point out that you mentioned two of my top 5 Wii games in you argument for why they shouldn't release those in-between games on their newest system instead of the older one.
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon']I just wanted to point out that you mentioned two of my top 5 Wii games in you argument for why they shouldn't release those in-between games on their newest system instead of the older one.[/QUOTE]

They still would have been 2 out of the top 5 games released on GameCube though.
 
I mean, I understand the bidness reasons for pushing the titles to a new system and tacking on poorly conceived/executed controls. I just think it takes away from the game in the long-term.

And yes, I'm aware that I need to let go of the Zelda TP experience. I'm nearly there.
 
So they said some UK site released the Wii U price which is $435 n games for $62, this seems too high for nintendo. but keep in mind Nintendo hasn't said anything about the price or games yet. So this could just be a thing they think it will sell for. Do u think it will really be that much and an extra 2 dollars for games? stupid
 
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