[quote name='megma42']The republicans didn't alter basic math. If the amount you make when you get a job doesn't let you pay off the loans, don't take them out. If the students couldn't afford the loans, they should not take them out. Students should look at what they will likely make in a given field and how likely they are to get a job in the field or with the degree they are getting before taking on the debt. I think what they should do is give the people taking out the loans a basic math lesson before they take the loan out instead of the harsh one they get once they have to start paying them.[/quote]
Republicans didn't change how math operates, only the system that requires it's use.
Ignoring the reality of a job market that requires a 4 year degree for a vast majority of entry level positions that pay a living wage doesn't make taking out loans arbitrary or as simplistic as you try to portray it. Bootstraps is not an answer.
No, they TOOK OUT the loans. You can still get a job that pays a living wage without a college degree and you could move to an area with a lower cost of living.
Moving to a new area is hardly a realistic course of action for most people with student loans fresh out of college without substantial support from family and generally reserved for those that already have the financial means to payback the loans. Stop ignoring reality and playing thought experiments.
Remember living wage doesn't include eating out all the time, going to the movies, cable, and a flat screen TV. It is food, clothing, shelter - the things you need to live.
You want to play the "you're not REALLY poor if you have ____" game? Now I can understand the cable part, but tv's are
ing cheap, movies aren't huge everyday expenses, and eating out can actually be cheaper and less time consuming than getting groceries, prepping, cooking, and cleaning. Can someone survive on $15k? Sure they can, but you can't call that a life and I haven't even begun to talk about the effects of poverty in non-economic terms.
I actually don't expect them to pay off their loans if they don't have an income, but I don't expect the government to just call off their loans. I do expect them to think about this before taking out the loans. I expect them to take longer to go through college because they are working, go to a community college, work as they go through college.
Or we could just skip the middleman and do a better job of subsidizing higher education like most modern democracies.
See my point above. Also, good point, I DID indicate that I was against higher education by saying that I think people should pay their debts.
Your point above suggests that if someone has a subsistence wage, then it's their fault so they should get
ed. Personal responsibility right?
I, for one, don't think that personal responsibility is a nebulous concept. So by this statement I take it that you think people should not take personal responsibility and let the government take care of them? I stand by the statement from my previous post.
No. My point is that personal responsibility is one of the last things on the list when it comes to socio-economic outcomes. It's nebulous because it doesn't really explain anything. If you want to play the personal responsibility game, then the logical conclusion is to end all social programs and let people starve on the streets.
No, abolish the university system as we know it and go back to some sort of apprenticeship/on the job training model and away from the model that makes me take a non-western civilization course to get a biology degree.
The university system has it's problems and there's merit to apprenticeships, but when unions are a Bad Thing and you have the inability to see the merit in learning about non-western civilizations, you're denying reality...again.
So if I understand your "answer": The government should bail people out who are in a bad situation because it is not their fault that they can't pay back the loan they signed for, it will fix a problem that will affect multiple generations, they already set a precedent of helping people with social security, and it will allow more people to go to school even though when they get out they won't be able to get jobs?
Is that correct?
You don't seem to understand much of anything regarding social science, but no, loan forgiveness won't magically fix the job market, only slightly change the dynamics of it. There are many other systems at play when it comes to getting a decent job with decent pay. Instead of loan forgiveness, think of it as a retroactive scholarship and see how that works for you.
How about this, you give me a loan without collateral and let me out of it when I can't pay, sound good?
If I was a governmental agency and you needed money for school, I would. As an individual actor, it'd be meaningless and wouldn't change a thing.
