Official 2011-12 NFL Regular Season Thread

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Pat Shurmur.

The problem with the Browns so far has been that the defenses they face can just blitz the hell out of them since they don't pose much of a threat to beat them. The lack of consistency in personnel is also an issue, as Peyton Hillis has been out for long stretches of the last two games and the tight ends are constantly switching around for each play, which leaves playmakers like Evan Moore on the bench more in favor of Alex Smith because he supposedly can't block those extra blitzers. They seem to have less of a problem scoring on hurry up drives, but that's usually due to being down by enough so that the defense is not playing that hard.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Pat Shurmur.

The problem with the Browns so far has been that the defenses they face can just blitz the hell out of them since they don't pose much of a threat to beat them. The lack of consistency in personnel is also an issue, as Peyton Hillis has been out for long stretches of the last two games and the tight ends are constantly switching around for each play, which leaves playmakers like Evan Moore on the bench more in favor of Alex Smith because he supposedly can't block those extra blitzers. They seem to have less of a problem scoring on hurry up drives, but that's usually due to being down by enough so that the defense is not playing that hard.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if it's the right call, but I'd bet that Shurmur as coach, Hillis being on the team, or McCoy as the starting QB won't be happening for the Browns next year.
 
Unless the media gets its way with the Hillis "controversy" that they've created, I don't see why they wouldn't have all three of them next year.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Unless the media gets its way with the Hillis "controversy" that they've created, I don't see why they wouldn't have all three of them next year.[/QUOTE]

Did you see the game today? They were saying Hillis had a hamstring injury and then he was back, something is up. I wouldn't doubt if he is traded this weak. At the least I don't see him resigning with Shurmur as coach. That is what makes me think one of those two won't be back.

McCoy I'm not convinced either way on yet, but as Browns fans we should know that QB turnover is nothing new.
 
I cannot believe all the mistakes the Lions made in that game. Time after time they just could not do much on defense and offensively the gameplan has been laid out how to beat Stafford...pressure. Stafford didn't react to pressure in the least bit and made a ton of stupid throws and seemed to have panicked quite a bit when under pressure. Another Manning we got here? Pocket = destruction but make him move and he's throwing all over the place.
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']I cannot believe all the mistakes the Lions Matt Stafford made in that game. Time after time they just could not do much on defense and offensively the gameplan has been laid out how to beat Stafford...pressure. Stafford didn't react to pressure in the least bit and made a ton of stupid throws and seemed to have panicked quite a bit when under pressure. Another Manning we got here? Pocket = destruction but make him move and he's throwing all over the place.[/QUOTE]

Fixed


The defense did their part by giving the offense about 40 chances to win the game. Matt "J.R.Smith" Stafford....blew me away with the amount of easy...no pressure..tosses he missed and has missed this entire year is mind boggling.
 
Jason Campbell out for the season with a broken collarbone. :bomb:

With Boller and Edwards as backups, that's a huge blow to their playoff hopes.

is David Garrard still available?
 
[quote name='Ultimate Matt X']Did you see the game today? They were saying Hillis had a hamstring injury and then he was back, something is up. I wouldn't doubt if he is traded this weak. At the least I don't see him resigning with Shurmur as coach. That is what makes me think one of those two won't be back.

McCoy I'm not convinced either way on yet, but as Browns fans we should know that QB turnover is nothing new.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why he was sidelined for most of the game, but I don't believe for a second that it's because Shurmur/Holmgren/Heckert doesn't like him any more and wants to get rid of him. That's the reason that the media has created, but it doesn't really make any sense to try to devalue a player if they want to get rid of him. Who would they turn to after that? Montario Hardesty and Armond Smith? That's like changing from Jerome Harrison and Peyton Hillis to Peyton Hillis and Mike Bell last year, which was a terrible trade that made Peyton have to take way too much of the load because nobody behind him could do anything last year as he wore down towards the end of the season. They have nothing behind Peyton and Montario right now to make that kind of trade a sensible move. His lack of production mostly has to do with them facing teams with good defensive lines (3/4 of his opponents) and the poor passing game that lets defenses load up the box to stop him because they don't fear the receivers making big plays.

The QB turnover is the exact reason that they've been bad for most of the time since their return. Nobody in charge of the team, nor the fans, have had any patience to let things mature, as they expect immediate success or they should be cut/traded. Brady Quinn was traded without ever being given a fair chance, Derek Anderson was killed by Romeo Crennel' terrible offense, and so on and so forth. The kneejerk reactions that people have to anything that happens is why the team has been the way it's been for so long. Now that they're having success in the draft, it's more important than ever to not pull the plug on the whole thing because of a few hiccups along the way. The fact that they traded away the chance to take Julio Jones for several picks in this and next year's drafts shows that Holmgren and Heckert have no plans to rush this rebuilding process, which is working out well so far with the young players they've gotten and will make use of next year's draft to fill in some more holes in the WR, LB, and CB groups.
 
I didnt get a chance to see the game but WTF took place to the Packers in the second half of the game? Did the offense just give up or something?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Jason Campbell out for the season with a broken collarbone. :bomb:

With Boller and Edwards as backups, that's a huge blow to their playoff hopes.

is David Garrard still available?[/QUOTE]

Of course, right after Heyward-Bey and Campbell were starting to builld a rapport! Garrard is still out there since he told Miami to fuck off.


Well Washington, looks like Sexy Rexy showed you his true colors today. LOL at 4 ints.

I'm not really a fan of either club but way to go Jim Harbaugh. 5-1 and could easily be 6-0 if not for a late collapse against Dallas. I loved the exchange between him and Schwartz. Jim would have beat his ass had it come to blows! That would have been awesome to see!
 
YqFMW.gif
 
[quote name='Superstar']The 4th quarter of the cowboys\pats game is probably going to give me a heart attack.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully you survived.

I actually thought the Cowboys were a nightmare matchup for the Pats, though I certainly didn't think it would be the defensive struggle it ended up being. I don't think the Cowboys have anything to hang their heads about though, they gave a better team all they could handle on their home field. I still think they're winning that division.
 
I don't disagree, but I think Hardesty getting as much playing time as he has, when he continues to drop passes and be average when running, shows that something is up. We'll see soon though I think either way.

I think you're giving some of those QBs too much credit. Look at how they've played elsewhere. Now Couch I'd agree never got a shot because the line sucked, but since then the QBs just haven't been that great. I think part of the reason is because they haven't been willing to take the right QB at the top of the draft. I'm not sure if that is what they will do or should do with next year's draft, but something isn't working now. No offense should come off a bye week looking as bad as they did this week. Everyone will make the excuse about the talent or receivers, but I think it comes down to the QB or the coaches. I'm not sure which is the bigger problem in the Brown's case, but something is wrong.

I don't like the constant turnover either, but I also don't want the franchise to embrace losers just to avoid it. They can keep filling all the holes they want, but if they don't find a QB or a coach to lead the team properly they're always going to be bad.


[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I don't know why he was sidelined for most of the game, but I don't believe for a second that it's because Shurmur/Holmgren/Heckert doesn't like him any more and wants to get rid of him. That's the reason that the media has created, but it doesn't really make any sense to try to devalue a player if they want to get rid of him. Who would they turn to after that? Montario Hardesty and Armond Smith? That's like changing from Jerome Harrison and Peyton Hillis to Peyton Hillis and Mike Bell last year, which was a terrible trade that made Peyton have to take way too much of the load because nobody behind him could do anything last year as he wore down towards the end of the season. They have nothing behind Peyton and Montario right now to make that kind of trade a sensible move. His lack of production mostly has to do with them facing teams with good defensive lines (3/4 of his opponents) and the poor passing game that lets defenses load up the box to stop him because they don't fear the receivers making big plays.

The QB turnover is the exact reason that they've been bad for most of the time since their return. Nobody in charge of the team, nor the fans, have had any patience to let things mature, as they expect immediate success or they should be cut/traded. Brady Quinn was traded without ever being given a fair chance, Derek Anderson was killed by Romeo Crennel' terrible offense, and so on and so forth. The kneejerk reactions that people have to anything that happens is why the team has been the way it's been for so long. Now that they're having success in the draft, it's more important than ever to not pull the plug on the whole thing because of a few hiccups along the way. The fact that they traded away the chance to take Julio Jones for several picks in this and next year's drafts shows that Holmgren and Heckert have no plans to rush this rebuilding process, which is working out well so far with the young players they've gotten and will make use of next year's draft to fill in some more holes in the WR, LB, and CB groups.[/QUOTE]
 
Then why should they give up on those guys after five games? You don't have any explanation other than calling them losers when they weren't exactly going to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl this year anyway, so it comes off as a kneejerk reaction like they're one or two players from actually accomplishing that. And they're not.

The thing about QBs is that a good system can be the difference between them prospering and failing, which is why I harp on the management for giving up on some of these guys so quickly and constantly changing coaches/systems doesn't help either. They've done a poor job of really trying to foster any QB's growth into that franchise QB role by having some consistently and building around them, which is one of the reasons that I'm very much against the idea of aborting them all because of some rough spots.
 
I didn't say they were losers at a personal level, just that they can't accept failure. I meant that organizationally, not necessarily this team or certain players. Honestly, 2-3 is about as good as I thought they'd be, but there are signs that things are worse than their record shows. I don't want to see turnover either, but I don't know what the answer is.

Though as far as current players, I do think McCoy should get the whole season, but if he plays like he did yesterday in Week 17 I'd bet they draft a QB next year. We can make whatever excuses, but the Bengals have a rookie QB that is already looking better than him. A lot of it is the system, but whether the coach's system or the QB is the problem, there should be some progress from week to week. If anything they're looking worse after a bye week. And as far as the Hillis "controversy" I'm not down on him as a player. Though like the stats show he hasn't done much from about mid-season last year on. He just seems to be fed up, they don't want to use him enough, and the contract negotiation isn't helping. That is why I think his days are numbered.

Also, check out the story below. Evidently Cribbs doesn't want to play offense any more either. Some of his comments are interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_josh_cribbs_w.html

[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Then why should they give up on those guys after five games? You don't have any explanation other than calling them losers when they weren't exactly going to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl this year anyway, so it comes off as a kneejerk reaction like they're one or two players from actually accomplishing that. And they're not.

The thing about QBs is that a good system can be the difference between them prospering and failing, which is why I harp on the management for giving up on some of these guys so quickly and constantly changing coaches/systems doesn't help either. They've done a poor job of really trying to foster any QB's growth into that franchise QB role by having some consistently and building around them, which is one of the reasons that I'm very much against the idea of aborting them all because of some rough spots.[/QUOTE]
 
So denver just sent brandon lloyd to the rams...two-three weeks after tebow was playing receiver because the broncos didn't have enough receivers to play. Looks like they want tebow to fail asap.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']So denver just sent brandon lloyd to the rams...two-three weeks after tebow was playing receiver because the broncos didn't have enough receivers to play. Looks like they want tebow to fail asap.[/QUOTE]

They are looking to move Royal as well.
 
[quote name='Ultimate Matt X']I didn't say they were losers at a personal level, just that they can't accept failure. I meant that organizationally, not necessarily this team or certain players. Honestly, 2-3 is about as good as I thought they'd be, but there are signs that things are worse than their record shows. I don't want to see turnover either, but I don't know what the answer is.

Though as far as current players, I do think McCoy should get the whole season, but if he plays like he did yesterday in Week 17 I'd bet they draft a QB next year. We can make whatever excuses, but the Bengals have a rookie QB that is already looking better than him. A lot of it is the system, but whether the coach's system or the QB is the problem, there should be some progress from week to week. If anything they're looking worse after a bye week. And as far as the Hillis "controversy" I'm not down on him as a player. Though like the stats show he hasn't done much from about mid-season last year on. He just seems to be fed up, they don't want to use him enough, and the contract negotiation isn't helping. That is why I think his days are numbered.

Also, check out the story below. Evidently Cribbs doesn't want to play offense any more either. Some of his comments are interesting.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_josh_cribbs_w.html[/QUOTE]
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/1...eduled-for-mri-removes-any-blame-from-shurmur

Here are the details on Hillis's absence for most of the game:
(On when the injury happened): "It was my second run when I went outside and one of the defensive backs pushed me out of bounds and I overextended," he said. "I tried to play there a couple of series afterward the best I could."

(Shurmur did not go against his word): "That's nobody's fault," said Hillis, referring to Shurmur not being able to give Hillis the bulk of the carries due to his injury. "You pull a hamstring, you try to go out there and do your best. It's nobody's fault. It's just unfortunate, disappointing."

(On why he went in to block late in the game): "I felt it was a critical part in the game," said Hillis. "I didn't want to leave Montario hanging out there, so I felt if I could go in there and do a little pass protection, do what I could do to help the team win...it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do," he said. "But I wanted to help the team win. I was anxious to get out there and help. It was a critical point, we were just two possessions down and if we got that touchdown -- you saw how things worked out with the onside kick and stuff, we knew it was within reach."
Click to expand...
He's going in for an MRI to see what's up with the hamstring. Shurmur echoed those statements:
"We had the idea that we were going to go in and try to feature [Hillis] in some way and then, he got hurt," Browns coach Pat Shurmur said of Hillis. "Montario stepped in there, did some good things. I think he’ll be the first one to admit that just like everybody in that locker room, they could play better."
Click to expand...
So that controversy is pretty much put to rest for me.

I don't know how you can tell a player's thoughts by reading stats, as Hillis' numbers were down near the end of last season from being worn down from all of the hits he had taken by that point in the season.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Colt McCoy, as I still don't see any reason to get rid of him after this year.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Hopefully you survived.

I actually thought the Cowboys were a nightmare matchup for the Pats, though I certainly didn't think it would be the defensive struggle it ended up being. I don't think the Cowboys have anything to hang their heads about though, they gave a better team all they could handle on their home field. I still think they're winning that division.[/QUOTE]

I am extremely happy what our defense did to Tom Brady during most of the game, except for the end few minutes obviously. I think we should have taken some shots down the field, especially on that 3rd and 18. I know we wanted to make the Pats burn their time outs but honestly with or without time outs - Brady is money in that situation.

We should have taken more deep shots in general. We had healthy receivers. Oh well, I am disappointed, but I also feel good for the future of this team, especially defensively.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Fixed


The defense did their part by giving the offense about 40 chances to win the game. Matt "J.R.Smith" Stafford....blew me away with the amount of easy...no pressure..tosses he missed and has missed this entire year is mind boggling.[/QUOTE]

I suppose that could be said, but while the defense did alright they had a ton of trouble stopping the run and gave up some key first downs in the 4th quarter as well. But I think we can agree both Stafford & the defense blew the game...the whole team IMO just played horribly all day except for Johnson...as usual...but he cannot carry the team. He can't throw the ball to himself...
 
[quote name='Kaelestis']http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/cutler-martz-f-yourself-video/

Nice to see Cutler supposedly telling Martz off. I think he can play a lot better if he isn't following the shoddy play calls to a tee. As a fan, I'm sick of 7 step drops with an awful o-line and no audibles so I'm sure Cutler is too.[/QUOTE]


That's awesome! I will admit I was one of the many Bears fans that was all over Cutler for quitting in the NFC championship game last year but I have to say this season I can't blame the guy for being pissed.

They knew the line was crap coming into the season but still tried to run the St. Louis Rams scheme leaving Cutler to take a massive beat down every single game! Sunday night they run more max protect packages and wow they were actually able to move the ball!

Who know, if they would have run this offense earlier maybe we'd have another win or two.
 
Hey let's not give the 49er defense any credit or anything. They only held Calvin to his first non-scoring game of the year and sacked Stafford 5 times.

All I hear is the Lions "handed the game away," which is only partly the case.

But Harbaugh likes not getting credit so I'm sure he'll use it to keep motivating and I'm fine with that.
 
yeah, Palmer is a good pick up, but they're giving up way too much for him.

But they had to pick up a qb as they stupidly didn't have a good back up on the roster. Kyle Boller and Terrele Pryor aren't getting it done. And at 4-2 and being in a weak division they have a good chance to make the playoffs for the first time since 2002.

They tried for Garard fist, but he needs back surgery and isn't interested in playing this year.
 
2 first round picks for Palmer is a huge over payment. If it was any team other than the Raiders I'd be surprised. I think Palmer is good for the Raiders (even if he takes a few weeks to get acclimated), but the Raiders have virtually no draft picks next season. They are a "win now" team that ultimately can't "win now". Al Davis would be proud.
 
[quote name='DestroVega']Raiders had to make this move. I'm more surprised Brown caved and let Palmer go.[/QUOTE]

You can only be so principled. I've loved pretty much everything the Bengals have done over the last year or so. Green and Dalton both look like home run picks, they have a legitimate defense, and now they're getting two picks for Palmer. If they play their cards right they could be a serious contender again in a year or two.
 
Thankfully they have a lot of young talent so it's not a huge deal. But they do need help on the o-line and d-line still, and not having draft picks will hurt in bolstering those areas.

I did read that the 2nd first rounder for Palmer is conditional on his performance or how much he plays etc., so they may not give that one up.

Probably will though--Campbell is in the final year of his contract, so I imagine he's done and it's Palmer's job next year as well as long as he does well and stays healthy.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Raiders giving up at least one (and possibly two) first rounders for Carson Palmer? Zombie Al Davis, is that you?[/QUOTE]

It was written in his will. j/k

The Raiders give up a first round pick in 2012 and a future second round pick that could get upgraded to a first round pick if Palmer plays well. If Palmer's arm can do the job then it wouldn't have been too much to give up, but that's a big if.
 
The condition for the second pick to be upgraded is for the Raiders to win a Divisional playoff game this year. So they would either need to win two playoff games or get a first round bye and win one playoff game. I think they over-payed, but they were somewhat stuck and from the sound of it, Hue Jackson has a lot of power in Oakland right now.
 
The thing to remember is that they aren't picking up Palmer just to fill in this year. He is under contract through 2014 while Campbell's contract is up this year. Do Palmer is the QB going forward and Campbell is done in Oakland.

Still gave up too much IMO, but at least the Raiders finally have a solid qb again who at 32 should still have a few good years left.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The thing to remember is that they aren't picking up Palmer just to fill in this year. He is under contract through 2014 while Campbell's contract is up this year. Do Palmer is the QB going forward and Campbell is done in Oakland.

Still gave up too much IMO, but at least the Raiders finally have a solid qb again who at 32 should still have a few good years left.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess we'll see if a change in scenery rejuvenates him or if he goes back to sucking like he has for the past couple years. He hasn't been nearly the same player since that knee injury in the playoffs he suffered a few years back.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Yeah, I guess we'll see if a change in scenery rejuvenates him or if he goes back to sucking like he has for the past couple years. He hasn't been nearly the same player since that knee injury in the playoffs he suffered a few years back.[/QUOTE]
That's assuming that he's in playing shape in the hopes that Cincy would eventually give in to his demands.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']That's assuming that he's in playing shape in the hopes that Cincy would eventually give in to his demands.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I did hear today that he's been in "retirement mode" for like the last six Weeks. I hope that doesn't mean he's been sitting on the couch cramming Oreo's in his face.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Good point. I did hear today that he's been in "retirement mode" for like the last six Weeks. I hope that doesn't mean he's been sitting on the couch cramming Oreo's in his face.[/QUOTE]

Jamarcus Russell Pt. 2!
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Good point. I did hear today that he's been in "retirement mode" for like the last six Weeks. I hope that doesn't mean he's been sitting on the couch cramming Oreo's in his face.[/QUOTE]

He's been working out with Ken O'Brien. No way he's in mid season game shape, but he hasn't been sitting on the couch either.
 
ESPN is reporting that the Jerome Harrison for Ronnie Brown trade was voided because Harrison has a brain tumor.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...t-lions-philadelphia-eagles-trade-source-says

[quote name='ESPN']
As Philadelphia Eagles doctors were giving newly acquired running back Jerome Harrison his physical, they discovered a brain tumor that nullified a trade with the Detroit Lions, according to two league sources.

The trade might have actually saved Harrison's life, the sources said. Without the deal being made, Harrison would not have undergone a physical. The tumor is now being treated, according to sources.
[/QUOTE]
 
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