First off the package was sent via CP as I live in Canada. CP has a limit on how long you have to file an insurance claim. I am considering just closing my account. Im not even sure they can take me to collections. But either way I've emptied my account and I might just open a new one.
Paypal screwed me! UPDATE MARCH.11 2008, A NEW COLLECTION AGENCY IS CALLING!
- Thread starter magiic
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W.arner1281
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Just close the account and open a new one. Even if they send you to collections, just trash the collections notice. They have no way of enforcing any type of collections without your social security number. And since we never provide our SS# to paypal or the collection agency, you won't have anything bad show up on your credit report/history. Sucks that the system can be manipulated like that, but at least in a situation like this, it works out for you.
[quote name='magiic']First off the package was sent via CP as I live in Canada. CP has a limit on how long you have to file an insurance claim. I am considering just closing my account. Im not even sure they can take me to collections. But either way I've emptied my account and I might just open a new one.[/QUOTE]
you can still try filing an insurance claim. At least look into it. The squeeky wheel gets the kick, or whatever. If i were you i would raise holy hell at your canada post office until they took your insurance claim. But that is just me. Dont vent here, vent at the insurance claims person you have to deal with on the phone.
you can still try filing an insurance claim. At least look into it. The squeeky wheel gets the kick, or whatever. If i were you i would raise holy hell at your canada post office until they took your insurance claim. But that is just me. Dont vent here, vent at the insurance claims person you have to deal with on the phone.
Man, that sucks big time. I'm glad my PS3 sale is now past any point of chargebacks and the like.
I did have a buyer file a dispute on a game I sent to Spain. Said he never got it. Since it wasn't too expensive I didn't insist on shipping with insurance or tracking (just airmail letter post). But all the people who are saying "send pictures", "send emails", or whatever to PayPal I have found out that they don't give a rats ass about any of that. Since I had no tracking that was end of story as far as they were concerned.
But here's the kicker - in his PAYMENT to me (and thus documented on PayPal's site) he said the following: "Hi, please be careful with the parcel cause sometime I had problems with any package and it took long time to arrive or it didn't arrive. I hope it hasn't any problem. So, please warn me when you has sent it. Thanks in advance.". I offered in the dispute to spilt the cost with him. He didn't respond to that at all and PayPal did not take up the offer either - I would think with that admission on his part I'd have some grounds. But, like I said, they don't give a rat's ass.
To top it all off, when they refund the guys money, they didn't even give back the PayPal fees for the original payment. OP, did they do this to you as well? They would be pretty substantial on that PS3 purchase.
So, I was out the original game (not to mention it's higher current value), international shipping, my ebay fees, and my PayPal fees. I contacted ebay about it to see if, as a seller in good standing I could at least get my auction fees reimbursed (even though it was after the 2 month claim period). They said they couldn't do anything about the final value fee, but did refund my listing fees - big whoop, those were all of 20 cents
.
I thought I was clear of the feedback period, but apparently it is 3 months (so OP, nail the guy with a negative if you haven't already). But get this, the buyer, who ignored my offers of splitting the cost, left me POSITIVE feedback and has been pestering me daily since then to reciprocate!!! WTF? This guy is going to annoy me into negging him! I have no idea what he is thinking.
I did have a buyer file a dispute on a game I sent to Spain. Said he never got it. Since it wasn't too expensive I didn't insist on shipping with insurance or tracking (just airmail letter post). But all the people who are saying "send pictures", "send emails", or whatever to PayPal I have found out that they don't give a rats ass about any of that. Since I had no tracking that was end of story as far as they were concerned.
But here's the kicker - in his PAYMENT to me (and thus documented on PayPal's site) he said the following: "Hi, please be careful with the parcel cause sometime I had problems with any package and it took long time to arrive or it didn't arrive. I hope it hasn't any problem. So, please warn me when you has sent it. Thanks in advance.". I offered in the dispute to spilt the cost with him. He didn't respond to that at all and PayPal did not take up the offer either - I would think with that admission on his part I'd have some grounds. But, like I said, they don't give a rat's ass.
To top it all off, when they refund the guys money, they didn't even give back the PayPal fees for the original payment. OP, did they do this to you as well? They would be pretty substantial on that PS3 purchase.
So, I was out the original game (not to mention it's higher current value), international shipping, my ebay fees, and my PayPal fees. I contacted ebay about it to see if, as a seller in good standing I could at least get my auction fees reimbursed (even though it was after the 2 month claim period). They said they couldn't do anything about the final value fee, but did refund my listing fees - big whoop, those were all of 20 cents
.I thought I was clear of the feedback period, but apparently it is 3 months (so OP, nail the guy with a negative if you haven't already). But get this, the buyer, who ignored my offers of splitting the cost, left me POSITIVE feedback and has been pestering me daily since then to reciprocate!!! WTF? This guy is going to annoy me into negging him! I have no idea what he is thinking.
I'll look into filing insurance however I will actually have to get the ps3 back in order to file it. Unfortunately at this point paypal wants proof of shipping. So all he has to do is send me back an empty box and he gets to keep the ps3. If I get the ps3 I can try insurance otherwise Im SOL
angrysalad187
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ccongrats on dodging that bullet =)
[quote name='Brian9824']haha sounds like the guy was trying to scam and realized that he could get in serious trouble.[/QUOTE]
I think the scammer got greedy and was trying to keep both the PS3 and the money. He figured that the money was already in his paypal account and that the case has already been finalized (even though one small step was still needed, the delivery confirmation # for shipping the PS3 back to magiic).
Congratulation, magiic!!
I think the scammer got greedy and was trying to keep both the PS3 and the money. He figured that the money was already in his paypal account and that the case has already been finalized (even though one small step was still needed, the delivery confirmation # for shipping the PS3 back to magiic).
Congratulation, magiic!!
Congrats! You did dodge that bullet.
Just wondering why when a lot of folks suggested you file an insurance claim right away, you chose to ignore that advice? Why ask for advice if you're not going to use it?
Also, follow the paypal "seller protection" requirements (not that it would help in this case) and get a signature confirmation for items > $250.
With the USPS, the mailer can file a claim for insurance and the post office notifies the recipient to take the package to the nearest post office. That may scare scammers into not following through with the dispute.
I thought the buyer would be responsible for paying for the mailing back to the seller - your post seemed to indicate that paypal charged you for return shipping.
Just wondering why when a lot of folks suggested you file an insurance claim right away, you chose to ignore that advice? Why ask for advice if you're not going to use it?
Also, follow the paypal "seller protection" requirements (not that it would help in this case) and get a signature confirmation for items > $250.
With the USPS, the mailer can file a claim for insurance and the post office notifies the recipient to take the package to the nearest post office. That may scare scammers into not following through with the dispute.
I thought the buyer would be responsible for paying for the mailing back to the seller - your post seemed to indicate that paypal charged you for return shipping.
[quote name='cheapfrag']Congrats! You did dodge that bullet.
Just wondering why when a lot of folks suggested you file an insurance claim right away, you chose to ignore that advice? Why ask for advice if you're not going to use it?
[/quote]
I'm not sure if it's different for USPS but with Canada Post sender needs to file insurance claim and the reciever needs to cooperate in the claim (ie mailing Canada Post the ps3 etc) this guy was easily the most uncooperatve person I have ever met.
Just wondering why when a lot of folks suggested you file an insurance claim right away, you chose to ignore that advice? Why ask for advice if you're not going to use it?
[/quote]
I'm not sure if it's different for USPS but with Canada Post sender needs to file insurance claim and the reciever needs to cooperate in the claim (ie mailing Canada Post the ps3 etc) this guy was easily the most uncooperatve person I have ever met.
nativetongue88
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[quote name='magiic']That's one of my saving graces I got my money out of my paypal account literally hours before he started the dispute. So in all reality paypal can't get any money out of me. As far as I can tell.[/quote]
as long as the money is out of your account you should be good to go. ive had this happen with a purchase of 1300 that i actually never received. i got a message from paypal saying they couldnt refund the money even though i won the claim because the money was taken out of the sellers account. thank god i was able to get my refund through my credit card company.
at the end of the day, paypal probably wont do anything other than next to nothing.
as long as the money is out of your account you should be good to go. ive had this happen with a purchase of 1300 that i actually never received. i got a message from paypal saying they couldnt refund the money even though i won the claim because the money was taken out of the sellers account. thank god i was able to get my refund through my credit card company.
at the end of the day, paypal probably wont do anything other than next to nothing.
He's going to be real pleased now. He'll get it back in a week or so and have to pay the $185 + the cost to ship it back. Part of me wishes I had of kept it. $185 for a ps3 would of been pretty cool. Although there was no gurantee it was even a ps3. Although keeping it if it was a ps3 could of given him more of a legal leg to stand on.
I just checked my paypal account. Apparently the buyer appealed the case (After it closed because he failed to meet paypals terms). So now as of Valentines Day (Feb.14) the case is back under review. Fortunately my account wasn't refrozen for the $1025USD. I've emptied my account now again though. I had like $300USD in my paypal account I'd rather not lose.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.
[quote name='magiic']I just checked my paypal account. Apparently the buyer appealed the case (After it closed because he failed to meet paypals terms). So now as of Valentines Day (Feb.14) the case is back under review. Fortunately my account wasn't refrozen for the $1025USD. I've emptied my account now again though. I had like $300USD in my paypal account I'd rather not lose.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.[/QUOTE]
I was going to say, they ruled in his favor originally, so I don't see how he could appeal. I recently lost a PayPal dispute (stupid International buyer claiming he didn't get his package) and I was offered the chance to "appeal" but I figured it wouldn't do me any good as they ignored all my evidence the first time and said all that mattered was tracking info, which of course you don't get with
ing airmail letter post. Those PayPal ers... They really don't like sellers - I'm always surprised when I see buyers complaining that PayPal screws them. All they have to do is make some half-assed claim (lost if no tracking, damaged if no insurance, whatever) and PayPal jumps through hoops to refund them. After about 4 emails to them they FINALLY, as a courtesy, refunded the PayPal fees (all of $1.74) on my refunded item. For whatever reason, they kept them originally when they refunded him.
Anyway, another question I had was what the hell kind of shipping did he use where you had to pay $185?? WTF?? When I mailed my one and only PS3 I sent it via priority mail with about $1200 of insurance for $50. It would be hard to spend $185 on shipping if you really tried :lol:.
But I feel for you. I was so pissed about my $37 dispute. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel over this sort of thing. It would have been very difficult to decide what to do with the package showing up like that. Of course, them asking $185 from you probably helped make that decision (as opposed to if he paid it and it just got delivered). That was probably a mistake on his part - he should have shipped it cheaply but with DC and not given you the option to refuse it.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.[/QUOTE]
I was going to say, they ruled in his favor originally, so I don't see how he could appeal. I recently lost a PayPal dispute (stupid International buyer claiming he didn't get his package) and I was offered the chance to "appeal" but I figured it wouldn't do me any good as they ignored all my evidence the first time and said all that mattered was tracking info, which of course you don't get with
ing airmail letter post. Those PayPal ers... They really don't like sellers - I'm always surprised when I see buyers complaining that PayPal screws them. All they have to do is make some half-assed claim (lost if no tracking, damaged if no insurance, whatever) and PayPal jumps through hoops to refund them. After about 4 emails to them they FINALLY, as a courtesy, refunded the PayPal fees (all of $1.74) on my refunded item. For whatever reason, they kept them originally when they refunded him.Anyway, another question I had was what the hell kind of shipping did he use where you had to pay $185?? WTF?? When I mailed my one and only PS3 I sent it via priority mail with about $1200 of insurance for $50. It would be hard to spend $185 on shipping if you really tried :lol:.
But I feel for you. I was so pissed about my $37 dispute. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel over this sort of thing. It would have been very difficult to decide what to do with the package showing up like that. Of course, them asking $185 from you probably helped make that decision (as opposed to if he paid it and it just got delivered). That was probably a mistake on his part - he should have shipped it cheaply but with DC and not given you the option to refuse it.
W.arner1281
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Just to play it safe, I'd empty your Paypal account (which it looks liek you already did) and then just stop using it and open a different one instead. That way win, lose, or draw, you still keep the money and you may or may not have a PS3 to keep as well (personally I woulda kept the PS3 that he mailed for $185).
My saving grace now is that I refused the package. So if paypal is reinvestigating this and they check the tracking it will show that I refused it and dont have the package. Furthermore in my defense paypal clearly outlined that he had to pay ALL associated costs with sending it back. The fact that I was expected to pay $187.52CAD upon recieving package is bullshit. And at the time I didnt realize the claim had been re-opened so I didnt want to accept the package because as far as I knew it could of been a box full of stones. And I can get stones way cheaper than $187.52 
PayPal has concluded the investigation of your claim.
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Transaction Date: Nov 20, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$1,025.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: *****
Buyer's Transaction ID: ******
Case Number: *****
Buyer's Name: ---
Buyer's Email: -----
------------------------------
The buyer has provided the following valid tracking information to verify
shipment of merchandise to you.
Tracking Number: 1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3
Shipping Company: UPS
Status: Refused
Since the tracking information shows the merchandise was delivered to you,
we request that you send the buyer a full refund for the transaction. It is
against our User Agreement for you to possess both the item and the money;
therefore, we are respectfully requesting that you process this refund
within three days. Failure to do will result in PayPal returning the funds
on your behalf to the buyer.
------------------------
This is unbelievable. They even acknowledge that it has been refused so they know I don't have it. Although they haven't froze my money again. Nor did they reverse my withdrawl of funds. And the case is no longer showing in my resolution centre. But seriously WTF I can't wrap my head around this anymore. Check out the tracking on the package, there is a short novel written about this package. I can't understand half of what it says but it still says it's in the province.
I'm going to give it a day or two to see what happens. Then call paypal.
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Transaction Date: Nov 20, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$1,025.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: *****
Buyer's Transaction ID: ******
Case Number: *****
Buyer's Name: ---
Buyer's Email: -----
------------------------------
The buyer has provided the following valid tracking information to verify
shipment of merchandise to you.
Tracking Number: 1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3
Shipping Company: UPS
Status: Refused
Since the tracking information shows the merchandise was delivered to you,
we request that you send the buyer a full refund for the transaction. It is
against our User Agreement for you to possess both the item and the money;
therefore, we are respectfully requesting that you process this refund
within three days. Failure to do will result in PayPal returning the funds
on your behalf to the buyer.
------------------------
This is unbelievable. They even acknowledge that it has been refused so they know I don't have it. Although they haven't froze my money again. Nor did they reverse my withdrawl of funds. And the case is no longer showing in my resolution centre. But seriously WTF I can't wrap my head around this anymore. Check out the tracking on the package, there is a short novel written about this package. I can't understand half of what it says but it still says it's in the province.
I'm going to give it a day or two to see what happens. Then call paypal.
raregamergirl
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With the tracking, if you refuse the package they will automatically side in favor of the buyer. It doesnt matter if you decline it and dont have it. IF you decide to refuse the package and the buyer provides tracking, they WILL automatically side with the buyer.
Now, the thing is that under paypal terms, they can do nothing to get the money back from you. They can close your account but as the buyer waited until after the deadline to supply tracking (IE, he appealed it), he is kind of screwed. This means you most likely will not be out any money.
Very odd situation. Also surprised no-one has jumped on you about selling all those systems yet.
Now, the thing is that under paypal terms, they can do nothing to get the money back from you. They can close your account but as the buyer waited until after the deadline to supply tracking (IE, he appealed it), he is kind of screwed. This means you most likely will not be out any money.
Very odd situation. Also surprised no-one has jumped on you about selling all those systems yet.
I hope PayPal sees it your way. Any sensible person should.
[quote name='magiic']I refused the package because it had almost $200 cash on delivery. Paypal specifically stated that he had to pay for ALL of the associated return expenses. He failed to do so. I am going to make that very clear to them when I call.[/quote]
[quote name='magiic']I refused the package because it had almost $200 cash on delivery. Paypal specifically stated that he had to pay for ALL of the associated return expenses. He failed to do so. I am going to make that very clear to them when I call.[/quote]
Demand that someone looks and sees that the package was declined because he did not cover full shipping charges, as he was supposed to. Threaten that if PayPal doesn't give you the money back and handle this in an appropriate manner that you can and will sue their ass.
[quote name='magiic']Ok this is getting ridiculous. Paypal just refunded him all of his money. So my account has a huge negative balance again. I need to call paypal now. Any idea what I should do to outline my case so I get the money back.[/quote]
[quote name='magiic']Ok this is getting ridiculous. Paypal just refunded him all of his money. So my account has a huge negative balance again. I need to call paypal now. Any idea what I should do to outline my case so I get the money back.[/quote]
Dear Genevieve/Whomever It May Concern,
I am e-mailing in response to the e-mail I received stating that a refund had been issued on my behalf in regards to case number PP-***-***-*** involving myself and a Mr. ******. This refund has been issued in error as the last e-mail I received before the one stating a refund had been issued stated that I was in violation of Paypal's user agreement by being in possession of both the item in question (ONE Playstation 3) and Mr.****'s money at the same time. However according the same e-mail Paypal acknowledged that the package had been refused as per the UPS tracking number (1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3). The status of the package can be checked at http://www.ups.com to show that I do not in fact have the item in my possession. The reason I refused the package was that Mr.**** failed to follow Paypal's guidelines for mailing the package back to me. As per Paypal's guidelines he was required to mail the package back in it's original condition and he was to cover all costs in mailing it back. Unfortunately Mr.***** neglected to do this and when the item arrived at my place of residence the UPS Delivery Personnel informed me that there was $187.52CAD COD (Cash on Delivery). As such I refused the package because Mr.**** was required to return the package to me at ZERO expense to myself. He failed to do such and as a result I informed the UPS representative that I wished to "Return To Sender" the package. The tracking number for this package confirms that I refused the package and that it is not in my possession. Currently you have issued a refund to Mr.* on false pretences that I have the item hand, however Mr.***** is currently the one in violation of Paypal's User Agreement as he now has the money in hand and will soon have the item in hand as well. As stated in the last e-mail an individual cannot be in possession of both the item and the money therefore I respectfully request that the refund be reversed and my Paypal account be returned to a balance of $0.00 as it was before the refund was issued.
Thank You,
Respectfully,
Ryan Laker
-----------------------------------------------------------
There is the e-mail I sent paypal
I am e-mailing in response to the e-mail I received stating that a refund had been issued on my behalf in regards to case number PP-***-***-*** involving myself and a Mr. ******. This refund has been issued in error as the last e-mail I received before the one stating a refund had been issued stated that I was in violation of Paypal's user agreement by being in possession of both the item in question (ONE Playstation 3) and Mr.****'s money at the same time. However according the same e-mail Paypal acknowledged that the package had been refused as per the UPS tracking number (1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3). The status of the package can be checked at http://www.ups.com to show that I do not in fact have the item in my possession. The reason I refused the package was that Mr.**** failed to follow Paypal's guidelines for mailing the package back to me. As per Paypal's guidelines he was required to mail the package back in it's original condition and he was to cover all costs in mailing it back. Unfortunately Mr.***** neglected to do this and when the item arrived at my place of residence the UPS Delivery Personnel informed me that there was $187.52CAD COD (Cash on Delivery). As such I refused the package because Mr.**** was required to return the package to me at ZERO expense to myself. He failed to do such and as a result I informed the UPS representative that I wished to "Return To Sender" the package. The tracking number for this package confirms that I refused the package and that it is not in my possession. Currently you have issued a refund to Mr.* on false pretences that I have the item hand, however Mr.***** is currently the one in violation of Paypal's User Agreement as he now has the money in hand and will soon have the item in hand as well. As stated in the last e-mail an individual cannot be in possession of both the item and the money therefore I respectfully request that the refund be reversed and my Paypal account be returned to a balance of $0.00 as it was before the refund was issued.
Thank You,
Respectfully,
Ryan Laker
-----------------------------------------------------------
There is the e-mail I sent paypal
As a last ditch effort file a report thru the Better Business Beauru. Basically no guarantee they will do anything but i filed a report on paypal once thru them and paypal offered to refund me the money out of pocket the next day. I must have made a convincing case.
bread's done