Paypal screwed me! UPDATE MARCH.11 2008, A NEW COLLECTION AGENCY IS CALLING!

Seriously, I feel for you.
Paypal is still sending me reminder emails from 2 month old chargeback for a ps3 sale. I'm tired of calling and emailing, it pisses me off too much way too much now to continue doing. I even have the store receipt with the ps3 serial and I just don't give a shit enough to use it to try to find the guy.
I can't imagine how far beyond sick of paypal you must be.

As someone said earlier, at least they don't have our SS#'s :roll:
 
Wow, I remember reading this way back when, I thought this case had been resolved. Luckily I don't really use ebay or paypal anymore. This was always my biggest concern when selling on ebay, that somebody would do a chargeback or file a dispute to get their way.
 
I wouldnt waste my time emailing. WHile you're waiting for a response, the buyer could of taken the money out and be enjoying the PS3 right now.
 
He paid credit card the refund would be issued back to his credit card. For all intents and purposes he already had the money the moment the issued the refund. Now he just has to wait for the ps3 and he's set.
 
[quote name='magiic']He paid credit card the refund would be issued back to his credit card. For all intents and purposes he already had the money the moment the issued the refund. Now he just has to wait for the ps3 and he's set.[/quote]

Wouldn't he have to pay the $200 delivery cost on the system if he accepts it back?
 
Forgot to update this for anyone still interested in the status of my (mis)adventure with paypal. I called paypal a few days ago and talked to someone who looked at my stuff and said she had passed it on to the appeals department and someone from there would get back to me. So I am awaiting to here back on that. Im giving them till friday before I call again.
 
[quote name='magiic']A link to what?[/QUOTE]

ebay auction link
 
I still havent heard from them . I'm giving them one more day to contact me before I call them again. I wish they could be a little more expedient with getting back to me. I just can't believe how long this has gone on for. It's pretty ridiculous that this has been going for almost four months I think.
 
I just checked my paypal account and the claim has shown back up and is "Under Review". I was going to call them but it says they need no further info from me and will contact me if they require any so I guess I will leave it for now.
 
[quote name='magiic']I just checked my paypal account and the claim has shown back up and is "Under Review". I was going to call them but it says they need no further info from me and will contact me if they require any so I guess I will leave it for now.[/QUOTE]

You may want to contact them anyway, because I had the same thing for my review (for a MUCH smaller amount) and I waited and waited for them to contact me and ask about my receipts, packaging, whatever. They never did and a month and a half later sided with the buyer because my tracking was not valid (I had put in the customs form number since that was all I had - apparently for Canadian mailings it can be used, but not for other countries). But instead of contacting me "if they need further info" they just did nothing for a long time, probably looked at it for 1 minute, and sided with the buyer.

If I were you I'd make sure they know about the lack of postage on his return and the fact that you no longer have it. I'm sure you've done that already - but I'd do it again.
 
I got two e-mails today from paypal one from "complaint-response" and "chargeback-response" about them recieving my complaint and how they will contact me if they require info and that it takes upto 30 days for my complaint to be reviewed.
 
Good luck with the case man, some insane stuff.

IIRC, when mailing TO Canada, if you mark what the item is or give it value, then the person ACCEPTING the item in Canada must pay tax on it. My friend purchased an NES on Ebay for $10--- the person sent with insurance valuing it at $250 and in order to claim the package, my friend had to PAY the % on the value of the item. That sounds very similar to what happened here with you, correct?

Anyways, good luck. It my be time to just open a new paypal account with a different address rather than deal with this garbage anymore.
 
[quote name='MrNEWZ']Good luck with the case man, some insane stuff.

IIRC, when mailing TO Canada, if you mark what the item is or give it value, then the person ACCEPTING the item in Canada must pay tax on it. My friend purchased an NES on Ebay for $10--- the person sent with insurance valuing it at $250 and in order to claim the package, my friend had to PAY the % on the value of the item. That sounds very similar to what happened here with you, correct?

Anyways, good luck. It my be time to just open a new paypal account with a different address rather than deal with this garbage anymore.[/quote]

Ya I know, it had a customs fee on it. I wasn't paying to bring the item back into my own country as I already sent it out. It was his job to pay for that too when he mailed it. I'm sure you can pre-pay the customs fee. But I sure as hell wasn't paying to bring it back into Canada after I mailed it out once already.
 
This is why when I sell something major like a video game system that costs a lot I say this in fine print. "This system is 100% "SOLD AS IS" although is it working 100% or either 100% sealed"
 
[quote name='tbolt30']This is why when I sell something major like a video game system that costs a lot I say this in fine print. "This system is 100% "SOLD AS IS" although is it working 100% or either 100% sealed"[/quote]
Just for future reference. That means nothing to paypal. If you ever get into a dispute, that holds absolutely no water at all. I had a ZERO return policy just like that.
 
[quote name='magiic']Just for future reference. That means nothing to paypal. If you ever get into a dispute, that holds absolutely no water at all. I had a ZERO return policy just like that.[/QUOTE]

So your going to get scewed over even though the guy said he got the system and didn't want it because he couldn't sell it to his friend?
 
[quote name='tbolt30']So your going to get scewed over even though the guy said he got the system and didn't want it because he couldn't sell it to his friend?[/quote]

So far it looks that way. Unless after four months of this bullshit paypal finally sees the light.
 
My two cents: You really should have called PayPal and started screaming as soon as you refused delivery and then got the e-mail stating he was in compliance (which you stated he violated by COD, and I'm assuming you're correct.)

You said you had insurance and signature confirmation. So obviously the buyer should have filed the claim through the post office. Obviously the only reason for a seller NOT to do so is because he's up to funny business.

My plan of action had a buyer tried scamming me, and this is complicated by the fact he actually supposedly sent it back (which you refused) was this: If he tried keeping it AND getting a chargeback, I was gonna go after him.

I was going to threaten to file a claim with:

http://www.ic3.gov/

And file a fraud/theft complaint with their local police department if they didn't drop the case/go through proper insurance claims. And then file these complaints if they didnt'. I also saved the original receipt and serial number for these reasons.

Speaking of serial numbers, you might wanna contact Sony and report your serial number as stolen. Maybe he'll at least be locked out of Home when it goes online.

Or if Canada has small claims courts, you sue PayPal there.

http://paypalsucks.com/SuePayPal-1.shtml

The following link details a buyer's lawsuit, but I got that link from a seller's thread. The seller had success doing this.
 
Small claims court, that could be fun. I wonder how interested they would be in sending lawyers up to Victoria. That's a good 2 1/2 hour plane ride, plus ferry or helijet, plus driving plus accomadations. I think the main reason I didnt go apeshit on them when I should of is because I just couldn't see them being that stupid. The case was so clear cut for me I couldn't imagine how I could lose. Anyways about contact the police in his area. What's my best way to go about doing that, what do I tell them when I call? What info are they going to want etc.
 
I just checked with my paypal representative. I found out that

a) when you refused the package, you were automatically screwed (I know I already stated this but I am reiterating the fact). in all those things you agree to, this is in there. if a dispute is filed against you and the buyer wins the dispute, if you (the seller) refuse the package and the buyer can show proof of this in any way, you are out the money and the item. the buyer attempted delivery and you chose to not accept it. it was your choice to choose to NOT accept the item.

b) the buyer is NOT responsible for ANY customs fees associated with the item. if there are customs fees involved in returning the item, it is the sellers job to pay these. these are based upon your own countries regulations and laws. it is NOT the buyers job to pay for fees your country may be charging you. they ARE, however, responsible for all SHIPPING fees in returning the item to you. if the buyer did not pay for ALL SHIPPING fees, then you have some ground to stand on. I am assuming, though, that all these fees you were supposed to pay were for customs fees. As stated, you are responsible for all customs fees or other taxes your country may be charging YOU to recieve the item.

HOWEVER- if the item was a return and you can prove it, you will generally NOT be responsible for any customs fees as the item was a return. you can prove this via any of the emails from paypal, I assume.

c) I would contact the buyer. explain to them the entire issue and explain to them that you will even pay for the return shipping. since they already did pay the return shipping once and they have (in their eyes) no reason to return it to you, try to reason with them.

You have no legal bearing though at all. You would lose in small claims court. Why? All those agreements you signed into when signing up for your paypal account. It also sounds as if he did attempt to return the item to you. YOU chose to not accept it.

I dont think paypal will be helping you at all in this instance. Your best bet is to try to work with the buyer to get them to return the item again. Be reasonable with them, though, and try not to lash out at them. You have every reason to be upset. Yes, paypal sucks in instances such as these- BUT there is nothing you can really do about it. Its part of the risk in accepting paypal.
 
Shouldn't it be his responsibility to mark the thing as a return? Either way I still dont understand how after he failed to provide tracking in the allotted time paypal still re-opened the case for him. They deleted the claim and I could even use my account for a week or so.
 
You are right he should have marked it as returned merchandise, but technically he didnt have to. He was a total ass for not marking it as returned merchandise (big surprise, though. sounds like the buyer is a total ass to begin with).

As for opening it after it was closed, you are given a window to appeal a paypal decision. Depending on the case and the money involved, they will open the appeal and review it basically immediately.

Generally, though, for lower dollar items, an appeal is just between the buyer and seller and is meant to be used as a communication tool and paypal does not get involved. There is a dollar amount, though, where paypal does get involved with appeals (I am not sure of this amount, perhaps $250 or so).
 
Raregamergirl, I believe you are wrong.

Magiic, I'm sure you have a customs thing somewhere. There is a shipping and handling fee, which PayPal said he MUST cover all. Obviously, he did NOT cover the shipping and handling fee that the CPO charges. I doubt he'd have to pay the customs, but it is written on the customs form that there IS A CHARGE FOR SHIPPING/HANDLING.
 
What am I wrong about? I'm confused.... please explain? I spoke to my paypal representative (I sell a LOT of items) and they explained to me the issues and rules involved. I am always interested in rules and regulations etc so I was curious about the issue.
 
Your point B.

There IS a shipping/handling fee that's charged by the CPO. And THEN there's an import tax for customs.
[quote name='raregamergirl']What am I wrong about? I'm confused.... please explain? I spoke to my paypal representative (I sell a LOT of items) and they explained to me the issues and rules involved. I am always interested in rules and regulations etc so I was curious about the issue.[/QUOTE]
 
From what I gathered, though (and this may be wrong), the buyer did pay for the USPS mailing charge when he sent the item. I am not sure if this is true, but this is what I was assuming as it was not mentioned otherwise. I was under the impression that the money he was being charged for was the customs (which makes sense if the buyer put down the full value).
EDIT: Also, paypal would have required tracking to be provided to side with the buyer. I'm not sure how the buyer could have mailed the item back with a trackable method (when shipping via USPS outside the US, only global express included online tracking) without paying the shipping fee up front.
 
Maybe if Magiic could reply...

Magiic, did you see the custom label thing? I know they have a box and they check it and put how much the shipping/handling is, then they have boxes for import and custom fees.
 
Regardless what happens paypal is not getting a dime from me. The way this has been handled is completely unacceptable. Even if I had accepted the package when it came I would of still be outside the return window because paypal took so fucking long to come to a decision.


@naes

I was sick with mono when the package came, And answered the door wearing just my boxers the guy told me I had to pay like 187.52 Cash on Delivery and I told him I never looked at the box. Nor was in a position to look at the box I just kind of peeked around the door at him.
 
Well I got an e-mail back from the BBB saying they have contacted Paypal and have given paypal 20 days to provide a written response which they will forward to me. Guess we will see what happens next. I hope this gets sorted out soon. I really don't feel like opening up a third bank account so I can use paypal again.
 
I'm very interested in what the BBB can get done in your situation. I don't completely understand the power they wield over empires like paypal/ebay but I imagine they can shut them down/cripple them if enough legit complaints arise.

On a selfish sidenote - I just received my first collections notice in the mail today. :bouncy: Yaaay!
 
[quote name='Narbotic']

On a selfish sidenote - I just received my first collections notice in the mail today. :bouncy: Yaaay![/quote]


collections from whom? Paypal? lol
 
So I got an e-mail from paypal yesterday morning requesting I send them proof of the COD charges so I did. I called UPS talked to a UPS representative who faxed me all the invoice stuff from the package. Then I made up a coversheet as per paypals e-mail faxed it to them literally within in hour of them requesting. Last night after work I check my account and the case is gone. They denied my appeal and closed it. I am thinking of calling them and asking WHAT THE fuck IS GOING ON. Still no word from the BBB in regards to my complaint against paypal either.
 
Ugh Paypal just re-opened the case saying they have recieved my documents. I swear to god one hand never knows what the other is doing over there.
 
Yeah, no kidding. You sold this right after launch, right? So this has been going on for over 5 months now. Amazing...
 
fucking ridiculous. I am glad to see that you are fighting this tooth and nail. :applause: I know I would have given up long ago and simply closed the account and started fresh. Honestly, it would probably be easier to just show up at their HQ, and be like... hey, where the fuck's my money bitches? Here's the paperwork you need, now let's get this fixed, NOW!
 
Unfortunately for me travelling to San Jose really isn't in the cards lol. I would of closed the account but unfortunately you can't close an account that has a negative balance nor can I delete my bank account from it.
 
I got Paypals response from the BBB. They basically told me in one page that I am fucked and I can take it up with UPS or eBay. They completely ignored the CoD charge claim and made no mention of the fact that I faxed in the proof of the CoD charges they requested and just said that I refused it because claimed I never ordered (thats what it said on the UPS tracking). I sent a response back to the BBB again about the CoD thing and also how I faxed them the info they requested yet they have still done nothing. I'm waiting for a response from Paypal or the BBB now.
 
Got an e-mail from the BBB telling me paypal says Im SOL. So I'm just going to give up on this I think. Paypal isn't getting a dime out of me. Paypal still says my case is being reived though in my account resolution center.
 
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