Penn State Rape Scandal

[quote name='nasum']kid fucking = execution

note that sodomizing is (by law) not necessarily anal penetration as sodomy laws also include oral sex.

either way

kid fucking = execution[/QUOTE]

Again I brushed this story off as sports = Stupid so havnt read much on it, just getting what has been talked about on my politic and news shows. Anyone know how young these kids were? There is a big difference between having sex with a 8, 13 and 16 year old. All may be wrong but there IMO are still major differences.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Again I brushed this story off as sports = Stupid so havnt read much on it, just getting what has been talked about on my politic and news shows. Anyone know how young these kids were? There is a big difference between having sex with a 8, 13 and 16 year old. All may be wrong but there IMO are still major differences.[/QUOTE]
Pre-teens and teens. The boy McQueary walked in on was estimated to be 10 years old.
 
also as it isn't apparently very clearly illustrated, the famous coach guy is not the perp, he's just in an evidentiary chain.
 
[quote name='nasum']also as it isn't apparently very clearly illustrated, the famous coach guy is not the perp, he's just in an evidentiary chain.[/QUOTE]

Thing is that may be worse. Dont get me wrong as an action its worse to have sex with a child then to fail to report/stop someone else doing it. However if you are frequently bonking kids it means that most likely you were born with a misfire in your brain. You are not wired the way other people are, instead your brain tells you its natural to have sex with kids. Even if you can recognize everyone else in society thinks its wrong, even if yourself you can see its wrong...your brain and your body still craves it. People who give in to that craving should be punished and harshly, but at the same time I have a basic level of sympathy for them. The person who just witnesses a child being molested but does not molest any themselves has a body that is in perfect working order. They know what is going on is wrong and its something they themselves dont want to do. They can and should stop it, so to look the other way IMO seems a worse crime or at least one that I have no sympathy for.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Thing is that may be worse. Dont get me wrong as an action its worse to have sex with a child then to fail to report/stop someone else doing it. However if you are frequently bonking kids it means that most likely you were born with a misfire in your brain. You are not wired the way other people are, instead your brain tells you its natural to have sex with kids. Even if you can recognize everyone else in society thinks its wrong, even if yourself you can see its wrong...your brain and your body still craves it. The person who just witnesses a child being molested but does not molest any themselves has a body that is in perfect working order. They know what is going on is wrong and its something they themselves dont want to do. They can and should stop it, so to look the other way IMO seems a worse crime.[/QUOTE]


As I mentioned before 1) Joe Paterno did not witness anything and 2) he was 70+ years old at the time this incident happened.
 
It doesn't say sodomy, it says anal intercourse in the court papers.
This might explain why McQueary is keeping his jobhttp://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...leged-incident
Click to expand...
So then Paterno is covered under the same act for going to his immediate supervisor?
 
[quote name='GBAstar']You guys do understand that in 1999 when this allegedly took place Paterno was still 70+ years of age. It's not like was in his 40's, 50's or 60's... he was 70 something. You're telling me that doesn't play a role here.[/QUOTE]

How is that in any way, shape or form relevant?

[quote name='GBAstar'] Parts that I've read said that he was showering with the boy. He might have been doing more but in that part particular with Victim 1 it only made reference to me that the Grad asssistant walked in on him showering with a boy.[/QUOTE]

Victim 1 was only subjected to 20+ blow jobs. It was Victim 2 that got lucky with the anal sex.

Jesus Christ - can people not read? http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

Bottom of page 6.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
 
[quote name='GBAstar']As I mentioned before 1) Joe Paterno did not witness anything and 2) he was 70+ years old at the time this incident happened.[/QUOTE]

2) That does not give him a free pass.

[quote name='perdition(troy']It doesn't say sodomy, it says anal intercourse in the court papers.So then Paterno is covered under the same act for going to his immediate supervisor?[/QUOTE]

Please read the article again. It explained why it is not the same for Paterno.
 
[quote name='Javery']How is that in any way, shape or form relevant?



Victim 1 was only subjected to 20+ blow jobs. It was Victim 2 that got lucky with the anal sex.

Jesus Christ - can people not read? http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

Bottom of page 6.
[/QUOTE]

I can read. I'm telling you and everyone else that no member of the Penn State football team walked in on Sandusky having SEX with a child. Therefore it was never reported to Joe Paterno via the Grad Assistant that Sandusky was having SEX with children.

Did he know more was happening? We DO NOT know yet. But people have been posting on here that he knew Sandusky was having sex with kids. Nowhere have I seen that printed.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']I can read. I'm telling you and everyone else that no member of the Penn State football team walked in on Sandusky having SEX with a child. Therefore it was never reported to Joe Paterno via the Grad Assistant that Sandusky was having SEX with children.[/QUOTE]

No, you can't read. From Page 7:

As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno ("Paterno"), head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen.

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning.
 
[quote name='Javery']No, you can't read. From Page 7:

As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno ("Paterno"), head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen.

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning.[/QUOTE]

Yes and later in the report it says that they athletic director was on record stating that the graduated assistant did not mention anything of a sexual nature occuring and that they were "horsing around".
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Yes and later in the report it says that they athletic director was on record stating that the graduated assistant did not mention anything of a sexual nature occuring and that they were "horsing around".[/QUOTE]

And now the athletic director is being charge with perjury.
 
[quote name='62t']And now the athletic director is being charge with perjury.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.

GBAstar: you're splitting hairs here and McQueary testified under oath that he saw Sandusky raping the boy in the shower. This out outlined in the document Javery pointed you to above.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Yes and later in the report it says that they athletic director was on record stating that the graduated assistant did not mention anything of a sexual nature occuring and that they were "horsing around".[/QUOTE]

Why does this matter? Paterno already knew about the encounter and that it was sexual in nature. He said so himself!
[quote name='Joe Paterno!']Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior: to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.
[/QUOTE]

Also, you are citing the statements of the athletic director, Tim Curley, who has been charged with perjury in connection with his testimony. Paterno has not been charged because his testimony appears credible at this point in time.
 
[quote name='Javery']Why does this matter? Paterno already knew about the encounter and that it was sexual in nature. He said so himself! [/QUOTE]
I'm with you on this. Paterno said he knew it was sexual in nature, which is pretty much all you need to know.

In my opinion, the only way Paterno is clean in all this is if he was intentionally misled by Schultz and Curley as part of their own conspiracy to cover this up. Paterno very well could have followed up repeatedly and been fed a line of bullshit by these guys, which would have kept Paterno in the dark. I don't think this scenario is likely, but it is possible.
 
I'm really thinking famous coach guy is a sacrificial lamb in this regard. Given the testimony and such in the ESPN link, it would appear that famous coach guy reported to his superiors whom he believed would be handling things from then on. It would appear that he was duped in this regard.

Jesus man, I had to stop reading around victim 8...

MSI:
The victims were all under 14, not all testifed to intercourse, a couple of "incidents" were witnessed and not reported due to fear of reprisal.

In the end, kid fucking = execution
 
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McQueary is far more at fault than Paterno. The 6'4" 28 year old former quarterback who witnessed a near 60 year old man ass raping a 10 year old boy is still coaching, Paterno is not.

Go figure.

For what it's worth, the DA who initially investigated and was involved with these charges was offed, with his destroyed laptop and hard drive showing up in a river months later.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']McQueary is far more at fault than Paterno. The 6'4" 28 year old former quarterback who witnessed a near 60 year old man ass raping a 10 year old boy is still coaching, Paterno is not.

Go figure.

For what it's worth, the DA who initially investigated and was involved with these charges was offed, with his destroyed laptop and hard drive showing up in a river months later.[/QUOTE]

I don't condone his inaction, but I do understand it... I'm about his age (at the time) and also work in a very hierarchical industry... where directly confronting someone who outranks you could put you in a world of hurt... irrespective of whether you are doing the moral or correct thing. I'm sure that he was afraid that his career could have been hurt by being too outspoken... there was probably also some aspect of loyalty (which tends to cloud integrity in such circumstances). As a junior coach/assistant or whatever, he really did not have much power.
 
[quote name='nasum']I'm really thinking famous coach guy is a sacrificial lamb in this regard. Given the testimony and such in the ESPN link, it would appear that famous coach guy reported to his superiors whom he believed would be handling things from then on. It would appear that he was duped in this regard.[/QUOTE]

Except this isn't the waterboy we're talking about - it's a guy who was in charge of a very presitigous football program making a 7 figure salary (which came in part from state funds). There is absolutely no way he can justify acting like a naive dumbass (not that he's even trying - Paterno has admitted that he didn't do enough)

I wouldn't bother making excuses for this guy, IMO he's lucky that so far all he's lost is his job.
 
[quote name='BigT']I don't condone his inaction, but I do understand it... I'm about his age (at the time) and also work in a very hierarchical industry... where directly confronting someone who outranks you could put you in a world of hurt... irrespective of whether you are doing the moral or correct thing. I'm sure that he was afraid that his career could have been hurt by being too outspoken... there was probably also some aspect of loyalty (which tends to cloud integrity in such circumstances). As a junior coach/assistant or whatever, he really did not have much power.[/QUOTE]

We are talking about a former Penn State QB. Anyone who is good enough to play QB for a Division 1 school, especially when you get the level of Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, or Pac 10, has to be a heck of an athlete and in great shape. This guy was 6'4", 28 years old, half the age of Sandusky. You can't tell me he really didn't have much power. He had plenty of power to do the right thing and go to the cops. He had plenty of power to physically go into the shower and stop what was going on, by any means necessary.

You understand that he put HIS career over the well being of a 10 year old child? That's sad in itself. Regardless, it won't work out for him in the long run anyways. He likely won't(hopefully) be able to get a good coaching job for the rest of his life. What kind of leader allows something like that to happen?
 
[quote name='camoor']Except this isn't the waterboy we're talking about - it's a guy who was in charge of a very presitigous football program making a 7 figure salary (which came in part from state funds). There is absolutely no way he can justify acting like a naive dumbass (not that he's even trying - Paterno has admitted that he didn't do enough)

I wouldn't bother making excuses for this guy, IMO he's lucky that so far all he's lost is his job.[/QUOTE]
Not that it matters in this situation, but Paterno was making around $500k a year and had a history of making large donations to the school and to charitable organizations.
 
[quote name='Lieutenant Dan']Not that it matters in this situation, but Paterno was making around $500k a year and had a history of making large donations to the school and to charitable organizations.[/QUOTE]

OK - for the record this was my source:

Penn State University football coach Joe Paterno topped $1 million in salary last year, making him the highest salaried employee at the university, according to data the school will file under the state's new Open Records Law.
Mr. Paterno's salary for the period ending in June 30, 2008 was $1,037,322, the university said today.
Click to expand...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09149/973690-100.stm#ixzz1dV3c26bv

Anyway even if it was only 500K, that's still an awful lot of money. Also he worked for a state-funded organization - when part of your salary comes from the taxpayers you have an extra obligation to act as a moral exemplar (and it's more then a bit ridiculous that a state-funded organization is paying a half-million salary)

This story is just shocking all the way around. I really don't understand the people on this board who are going to great lengths to make excuses for this guy.
 
[quote name='camoor']OK - for the record this was my source:


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09149/973690-100.stm#ixzz1dV3c26bv

Anyway even if it was only 500K, that's still an awful lot of money. Also he worked for a state-funded organization - when part of your salary comes from the taxpayers you have an extra obligation to act as a moral exemplar (and it's more then a bit ridiculous that a state-funded organization is paying a half-million salary)

This story is just shocking all the way around. I really don't understand the people on this board who are going to great lengths to make excuses for this guy.[/QUOTE]


If he is paid $1 million I can assure you he brings in 100x that amount in revenue that for the university
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Man, why people are trying to defend either is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

People who went there are invested in the good name of the school.
 
camoor,
I'm not trying to defend anybody. What I find remarkable is that this assistant coach who actually saw something happening is only suspended (but is being congratulated for coming forward) is more liable than famous coach guy. FCG reported hearsay to his superiors. Assistant Coach guy *witnessed* events and didn't go to police.
The whole thing is pretty messed up as there were obviously MANY opportunities to get this guy to stop and report him to authorities. It never happened for whatever reason. It's just ridiculous to lay it all at the feet of FCG. He's a scapegoat. On the other hand, the actual villian gets less press time than the scapegoat so I guess it's genius marketing at work once again and people fall for it hook, line and sinker.

p.s.
the only sports I have any interest in are Hockey and Curling so it's not like I'm in awe of FCG because I had no idea who he was previous to this ordeal. Football is a silly game with too much padding.
 
[quote name='nasum']I'm not trying to defend anybody. What I find remarkable is that this assistant coach who actually saw something happening is only suspended (but is being congratulated for coming forward) is more liable than famous coach guy.[/QUOTE]

There are legal issues that the school must work around related to McQueary's status as a "whistleblower" so he cannot be dismissed outright which is why they put him on administrative leave. I'm sure they will work something out eventually (highly unlikely that he resumes coaching at PSU) but that is the reason he wasn't fired like Paterno.
 
Yeap. You don't throw your star witness in the klink when he's vital to putting the bad guy away.

[quote name='Xevious']Man that's sick[/QUOTE]

Seriously how did no one see this shit. Guess they just didn't want to.
 
[quote name='nasum']camoor,
I'm not trying to defend anybody. What I find remarkable is that this assistant coach who actually saw something happening is only suspended (but is being congratulated for coming forward) is more liable than famous coach guy. FCG reported hearsay to his superiors. Assistant Coach guy *witnessed* events and didn't go to police.
The whole thing is pretty messed up as there were obviously MANY opportunities to get this guy to stop and report him to authorities. It never happened for whatever reason. It's just ridiculous to lay it all at the feet of FCG. He's a scapegoat. On the other hand, the actual villian gets less press time than the scapegoat so I guess it's genius marketing at work once again and people fall for it hook, line and sinker.

p.s.
the only sports I have any interest in are Hockey and Curling so it's not like I'm in awe of FCG because I had no idea who he was previous to this ordeal. Football is a silly game with too much padding.[/QUOTE]

Sure the assistant coach should be blamed and punished at least equally.
 
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/artic...home-on-bail-but-lives-near-elementary-school

STATE COLLEGE, PA (CNN) -- Former Penn State University football coach Jerry Sandusky is out on bail. He's accused of sexually abusing at least eight kids over a 15-year period. A judge told him to stay away from kids, but Sandusky lives right next to an elementary school. Many parents are worried.
When he was charged with 40 counts of sexually abusing children, Jerry Sandusky was released on $100,000 bail.
Click to expand...
Wow. Also needs to be noted that the judge who granted Sandusky 100k bail (prosecution wanted 500k and an ankle monitor) was a volunteer for Second Mile.
 
Jesus. If my kid went to that school I'd be flipping out right about now. There was a knock at my door about 2 years ago and someone was there from some Megan's Law association to let us know that a convicted sex offender lived within a mile of us - right across the street from the elementary school! I mean right across the effing street. Unreal. Anyway, within 3 months of us (and everyone else in the neighborhood) finding out the guy moved away. This is apparently common - they can live somewhere for a year or more if they are lucky before being "outed" at which point they are basically forced to move due to outrage from the community.
 
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[quote name='camoor']OK - for the record this was my source:


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09149/973690-100.stm#ixzz1dV3c26bv

Anyway even if it was only 500K, that's still an awful lot of money. Also he worked for a state-funded organization - when part of your salary comes from the taxpayers you have an extra obligation to act as a moral exemplar (and it's more then a bit ridiculous that a state-funded organization is paying a half-million salary)

This story is just shocking all the way around. I really don't understand the people on this board who are going to great lengths to make excuses for this guy.[/QUOTE]
If Pennsylvania is like many states, he could be the highest paid state employee as well.
 
[quote name='Javery']There are legal issues that the school must work around related to McQueary's status as a "whistleblower" so he cannot be dismissed outright which is why they put him on administrative leave. I'm sure they will work something out eventually (highly unlikely that he resumes coaching at PSU) but that is the reason he wasn't fired like Paterno.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Anyone wanting to argue McQueary is at fault from a legal standpoint doesn't have a leg to stand on.

It's amazing how something as trivial as football will make people incredibly stupid.
 
I was participating in a similar discussion in the NCAA FB thread on OT. I see now that this is where I should've been from the start. It's funny to see that some of the more irrational types in that thread last week were also in here trying to pull the same tricks. You guys!

[quote name='TheRock88']If he was smart, he should have just shut his mouth and declined the interview. Made him look even worse.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't giving a phone interview to Bob Costas pretty much negate any and all future bitching about the so-called Court of Public Opinion from his legal representation when selecting a jury? I don't know how these things work, I just wonder why his lawyer would have ever said, "Ah, what the hell, give Bob a call!"

And about him looking worse: Even under the assumption that he's completely innocent and just talking through this crazy misunderstanding with ol' BC, the things he is saying are creepy as fuck.

I keep thinking it couldn't get any worse, yet it does. PSU is in a world of shit.
 
[quote name='a raging pedophile']Am I sexually attracted to underage boys? Sexually attracted? You know, I enjoy young people. I, I love to be around them. I, I... But no, I'm not sexually attracted to young boys.[/QUOTE]

It apparently took him 16.3 seconds to answer "no" to that question. UNBELIEVABLE.
 
[quote name='Javery']It apparently took him 16.3 seconds to answer "no" to that question. UNBELIEVABLE.[/QUOTE]

Why didn't his lawyer prevent him from doing this? At this point is it past hurting his case, does it not even matter?
 
[quote name='dothog']Why didn't his lawyer prevent him from doing this? At this point is it past hurting his case, does it not even matter?[/QUOTE]

Everything matters - anything you say can and will be used against you! I am stunned that this actually happened. If he says anything (which he shouldn't) he should be screaming his innocence to anyone willing to listen. Wouldn't an innocent person be like "THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE INSANE!"? It's just unreal that this interview happened and went down the way it did.
 
I was curious and went looking for the highest Pennsylvania state employee salaries. According to this, Paterno doesn't fall under that list because he wasn't paid with funds derived from the tuition/state itself, but rather "Intercollegiate Athletics".
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']The fuck... this whole thing. Is it a sick joke or something?[/QUOTE]

birds of a feather?
 
Man the only thought running through my head on this whole situation is that some people are scumbags, however the people that stand around and let shit like this happen are bigger scumbags.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Man the only thought running through my head on this whole situation is that some people are scumbags, however the people that stand around and let shit like this happen are bigger scumbags.[/QUOTE]

I hope you aren't implying that the inaction on the part of Paterno and McQueary is somehow worse than what Sandusky did.
 
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