Penn State Rape Scandal

He should have called the actual police solely for the fact that they are not associated with Penn State. Its just easier to cover up if all you do is talk to be "in house."
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']He should have called the actual police solely for the fact that they are not associated with Penn State. Its just easier to cover up if all you do is talk to be "in house."[/QUOTE]
Also a good point.
 
[quote name='Clak']Heh, if my experience with campus police at the University where I work is any indication, he should have called the actual city police department. Campus police are about a step up from security guards at a mall in my experience.[/QUOTE]


I suppose it depends on the university, but the two universities I attended had legit police departments that handled everything from speeding tickets to sexual assaults. I remember reading arguments similar to yours a few months ago and checking out the Penn State university police department online and their force appears to be the real thing, not community college rent-a-cop types.

I get what you're saying, I probably would have called the local city or county PD too, but if he reported it to his superiors along with the head of campus police he did report it to the "real" police. The campus PD might of deferred the case to the local police force because they would have better resources, but this whole "he didn't report it to the police" stuff isn't a completely accurate statement as far as I can tell.
 
It's just that, as Soodmeg said, that police force works for the University. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that pressure could be put on a force like that to not take something too far. It would be like the mayor of a city putting pressure of the chief of police to sweep something under the rug.
 
True, but who would think of that at the time? Don't forget that we now have the strong advantage of hindsight.


Police issues aside, I think it's flat out ridiculous that Paterno takes what seems like the full majority of the heat in this ordeal. Look at the different parties involved in the scandal:

1. The child rapist.

2. The graduate assistant who witnessed the pedophile abusing a child and did nothing but pass the information along.

3. The coach who reported second hand information of a crime to his superiors in good faith that they would handle the situation with law enforcement.

4. High level administrators at the university who covered up a child rape scandal.

If #3 wasn't Joe Paterno, no one would give a damn about that person's role in all of this.

There was full grown man who witnessed a child being abused and didn't report it to police. He viewed the crime in progress, yet we focus on and vilify the guy who has second hand knowledge of the crime and didn't report it? I must be going insane because there's no way the world has gone that crazy :dunce:.
 
Well to be fair, when you're on top, you take the heat. It's why the university president was fired along with Paterno.
 
The problem is that JeoPa and our misguided society put him in that position, that is why he is getting the heat. There should never be a time in which a person witnesses a child being raped and the top 3 thought that go through his mind is...."I got to tell the football coach!!!!" There is a disconnect there.

You are so powerful that people report child rape to you but you are not powerful enough to handle the situation properly.

Also blindinglights, I think a lot of people in the process are vilified. There isnt anyone I know who doesnt hate the GA who didnt report it, there isnt anyone I know who doesnt think the univeristy swept it under the rug and are blasting them.

Its clear that JoePa had the most power and the most influence and he didnt do what many consider the morally right thing.
 
His first thought wasn't to tell the football coach. His first thought was to leave, second was to call his dad, third was to go to his dads house to talk to him about it, and his fourth was to come with his dad and meet with Paterno.Bottom line is, never trust a ginger to do the right thing.
 
I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that the incident explained, second hand, was so uncharacteristic of what JoePa thought Sandusky was, that Paterno didn't want to hang the guy out to dry if the GA was mistaken, had some bizarro vendetta or scheme in all of this. As I mentioned before, he reported it to his superiors, and apparently campus police. When nothing came of it, he should have asked if everything was clear, but he saw the pedderast back on campus and likely assumed that there was no truth to the story.

Now back to the GA...he knows what he saw, so when HE saw Sandusky back on campus after watching him rape a child, he should have thrown a fit, left his job, walked out, called the cops, media, Jesus Christ, and anyone else who would listen, and blow this thing up. HE is the one that knows for a fact what happened. Others depended on his story to take action. Instead, he kept coaching alongside Paterno, kept seeing Sandusky hang out on campus, and didn't care enough or didn't have the sack, to stick up for a child rape victim. Paterno has a theoretical excuse. We can choose to say he's lying, but there is an excuse. There is no excuse for the person who witnessed it directly, not intervening or escalating.
 
Ya, that GA is a coward. You dont even have to leave your name when you call, just tell him what you say so they can at least start investigating.

I bet you if this guy saw something like a celb push an old lady he would the first one at TMZ trying to cash in.
 
My problem with the GA was, even if he was mortally afriad that "JoPa & the Penn State Mafia" would turn him into the next 'Jimmy Hoffa', I cant see how he left the building with Sandusky and the kid still there in the shower. I mean, he could have at least kicked over a garbage can in the hallway to startle the dude.

And @blindinglights: the reality is that the #3 in your list *is* JoePa. He's a larger than life figure in college sports in general and in Penn State life in particular. In perception (if not reality) he had more power to 'get shit done' than even the AD. If JoePa wanted someone "banned" from campus, it would have happened. But instead, Sandusky still was allowed to run a 'kiddie camp', although only on a satelite campus. If everything was hunky-dory, why the relocation?
 
I think Paterno's biggest concern wasn't with Sandusky or the kids he was doing this to, it was with the school's image, and maybe even his own.
 
[quote name='Clak']I think Paterno's biggest concern wasn't with Sandusky or the kids he was doing this to, it was with the school's image, and maybe even his own.[/QUOTE]


Exactly, thats why everyone hates him...he had the most power and in the face of the ultimate "moral right" he screwed it all up.

I dont care how many reading camps and how much good you have done. Faced with that decisions you choose the easiest. I love how LeBron James earns the most hated person for switching teams, Tiger Woods for cheating on his wife yet you can let a child get raped and people go to bat for you?

JoePa had ALL the power in the world and he did the easiest thing he could....and lets not forget that he stated that he didnt even know child molesters existed. Talk about a fucking cowardly cop out...you are like 98..you have never heard of child rape? Get the hell out of here.
 
Originally Posted by Clak I think Paterno's biggest concern wasn't with Sandusky or the kids he was doing this to, it was with the school's image, and maybe even his own.
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How would it hurt his image, Sandusky wasn't even an employee of his?
 
Still was a long-time assistant coach before the allegation. So he has long ties to PSU and Paterno. And it does raise questions about whether that type of thing was happening at PSU youth camps etc. while he was on the staff.
 
Psychologist flagged Sandusky as 'likely pedophile' in 1998 report


Years before Jerry Sandusky was charged with child sexual abuse, a psychologist told Penn State police in 1998 that the former assistant football coach acted the way a pedophile might.

In her assessment, Alycia Chambers described her involvement in a case in which the mother of a young boy reported that Sandusky had showered with her son and may have had inappropriate contact with him. A redacted version of that evaluation was published Saturday by NBC News.


"My consultants agree that the incidents meet all of our definitions, based on experience and education, of a likely pedophile's pattern of building trust and gradual introduction of physical touch, within a context of a 'loving,' 'special' relationship," Chambers wrote.


The assessment could be significant because it suggests the university was warned about Sandusky, in no uncertain terms, as early as 1998, but did not stop the alleged abuse.


Sandusky, a longtime defensive coordinator for the Nittany Lions, is currently under house arrest as he awaits trial on more than 50 counts of child sexual abuse. He has pleaded not guilty.
Click to expand...

A bit more at the link.
 
Guilty on 45 of 48 counts. fuck you Sandusky.

edit: from the deadspin comment boards (too precious not to post):

Jury Foreman: We the jury find the defendant guilty....
Sandusky: [thinking] Please say 'of caring too much'...please say 'of caring too much'....
Jury Foreman: ...on all counts
Sandusky: [asshole squints]
Click to expand...
 
It blew my mind when his adopted son came out an said he also touched him as well. Doesn't look like the prosecutors really needed the help though.
 
Seems that Sandusky's lawyers feel like they have some decent grounds for an appeal, somewhat based on the speed of the trial and more so based on the edit of the Costa interview that was shown during the trial. As anyone who has argued with me in the Zimmerman thread knows, I am pretty staunch supporter of a person's right to defend themselves and be innocent until proven guilty, but let's not kid ourselves here. There was a mountain of evidence, the jury found the accusers very credible, and Sandusky is a creep. The defense could have had five years to prepare, and there was no way you're gonna shine a decent light on this piece of trash.
 
While I don't live near Penn State (about 2 hrs away), I know of people who went there or go there and they still think of Paterno as some saint.

He wasn't a saint, he was a fucking scumbag who cared more about football then the wellbeing of other children. I am glad to see Sandusky getting fried.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']While I don't live near Penn State (about 2 hrs away), I know of people who went there or go there and they still think of Paterno as some saint.

He wasn't a saint, he was a fucking scumbag who cared more about football then the wellbeing of other children. I am glad to see Sandusky getting fried.[/QUOTE]


I forgot that Joe Paterno witnessed the molestations... oh wait he didn't

I forgot that Joe Paterno failed to report what he heard from a graduate assistant to his superiors... oh wait he didn't

There are about a dozen or so adults that failed these children; about a dozen or so adults that had some sort of suspicion or knowledge that abuse of some sort might have been going on, from coaches and administrators at Penn State to coaches and teachers at high schools where Sandusky worked after Penn State to parent's of the victims to victims themselves.

Joe Paterno was like 72 when the graduate assistant first reported the abuse to him. At the time he did go to his superiors. How much he really knew or believed we'll never know as he is now dead. But don't make it sound like he had inside knowledge that all this shit was happening.
 
Agreed. Should Paterno had followed up on how his superiors were handling the allegations? Yes, but I am tired of people trying to vilify him in this situation.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Agreed. Should Paterno had followed up on how his superiors were handling the allegations? Yes, but I am tired of people trying to vilify him in this situation.[/QUOTE]


No shit, me too. There were reports of coaches at the highschool where Sandusky worked post PSU walking in on him wrestling inappropriately with young kids (he wasn't a wrestling coach btw) half naked yet no one mentions how they failed the victims.

Or the mother who had first hand information, from sandusky himself, that her son was being molested.

I get that it's easy to blame the all world coach but there are just as many other figures that failed these kids---and I'd bet most weren't 70+ years old.
 
It's more fun painting the target on the famous figure, unfortunately. It's no fun for people to vilify the dozens of other adults who failed in their responsibilities, many of whom he knew far more than Paterno...
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Agreed. Should Paterno had followed up on how his superiors were handling the allegations? Yes, but I am tired of people trying to vilify him in this situation.[/QUOTE]

And who was the witness's superior? Give me a break. It was HIS responsibility as a superior and as a human being. Passing the buck is never an excuse.
 
Unfortunately Sandusky will end up like George Banks and be in jail for the rest of his life while trying to appeal his conviction for that entire time. Hopefully they put Sandusky in the general population eventually. At least then he'll get to know what his victims felt firsthand by ending up as somebodies bitch.:evil:
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Agreed. Should Paterno had followed up on how his superiors were handling the allegations? Yes, but I am tired of people trying to vilify him in this situation.[/QUOTE]

Seen the news lately?

There's no defending Paterno. So much for The Right Way. Bye bye glorious legacy.
 
[quote name='dothog']Seen the news lately?

There's no defending Paterno. So much for The Right Way. Bye bye glorious legacy.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but where is the proof that Paterno said any of that? These are e-mails sent by a third party claiming that Paterno may have said something.

After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps.
Click to expand...
This is so beyond vague, it's a crying shame people think this is "concrete" evidence that Paterno had a hand in covering this up. For one, Curley may have never even talked to Paterno and claimed to have done so to bolster his own decision not to carry out the next steps. Or he may have discussed it with Paterno and decided to do whatever he wanted, anyway. As he said, "he" was uncomfortable. Didn't say "we." And seeing as Paterno is not alive to defend himself and that there are no actual pieces of correspondence from him, this is far from "shocking" news. Rather than post one link from a week ago, how about you also post the news story about the Paterno family demanding that all correspondence relating to the case be released and in their entirety?
 
They call his earlier account of events into question. The explicit wording (and timing) illustrates that he influenced the course of events, unless you want to be simple about it. Do you honestly think anyone involved with PSU would falsely represent JoePa's stance on an issue for rhetorical gain? That makes no sense given what we know about how PSU was run. People stayed out of JoePa's way and did as they were told.

You post the news story about the Paterno family. What else are they going to say/do? Maybe they can hold another vigil outside the Paterno family home with PSU students and play the victim again. This time it's "He's not here to defend himself" or "The administration used him as a fallguy." The former is some astonishing bullshit seeing as how if he were still alive, he'd be in it up to his ears along with the PSU administration, and, again, the latter is even more incredible given that it was JoePa. He ran the show, nobody's going to mince his words for their own benefit.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/sports/ncaafootball/13pennstate.html?_r=1&hp

Looks like the investigation found that Paterno and others knew of allegations back in 1998, not just the more recent one from McCreary in 2001 or whatever. Also seems to imply that Paterno encouraged higher ups to conceal the situation. Bad news on top of the emails released last week that showed the university president changed his mind about going forward after talking to Paterno.
 
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The letter the Paterno family recently released solidified for me the impression that Paterno lived in a fantasy land, but he comes out as being even more willful about his "ignorance" (perhaps maliciously so given his influence on administrators) after this investigation.

Sandusky raping kids is just such an odd exception to Paterno's "success with honor" code. That's the way of things, though, right? A coach/figure in the program is raping kids and it's, "Hey, no time for that, we're busy not having academic or recruiting violations over here."

Can't wait to get set straight by the JoePa Fun Club. Let's have it!

EDIT: And for the JoePa fans, I thought I'd add some more material to discuss. For instance, that JoePa and administrators weren't just protecting PSU's reputation by looking the other way with Sandusky, they were also protecting their business interests.

EDIT2: And even more for the JoePa fans, documentation proves that JoePa was aware of the 1998 incident, which means that he lied under oath to the grand jury in the 2010 investigation. Right? Didn't he testify that the 2001 incident was the first he'd heard of Sandusky being a pedo?

So were JoePa alive, he'd be subject to arrest for perjury.
 
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[quote name='dothog']So were JoePa alive, he'd be subject to arrest for perjury.[/QUOTE]

These assholes always seem to drop dead right before they get the book thrown at them.

JoePa, Ken Lay, the DC Madam, folks who were central to the scandal dying just before the investigation can get into full swing.

Coincidence?
 
[quote name='camoor']These assholes always seem to drop dead right before they get the book thrown at them.
[/QUOTE]

His family will likely end up being the ones to pay the price, since I'd imagine his estate will now be one of the defendants in the slew of civil cases sure to follow.

Not that taking Penn State and Paterno's estate to the litigation woodshed will even begin to make up for what happened to those kids, but every one of them is pretty likely to clean up.
 
[quote name='bvharris']His family will likely end up being the ones to pay the price, since I'd imagine his estate will now be one of the defendants in the slew of civil cases sure to follow.

Not that taking Penn State and Paterno's estate to the litigation woodshed will even begin to make up for what happened to those kids, but every one of them is pretty likely to clean up.[/QUOTE]

Well at least that's something.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Money makes all the emotional pain go away.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what this means, how would you propose they fix the situation?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Money makes all the emotional pain go away.[/QUOTE]
In this case punitive damages are entirely appropriate because Paterno is dead. You can't really punish him by sticking his casket in jail. Makes sense to clean out his estate through civil litigation. This is designed to encourage others not to protect child molesters. Your wealth will be taken from you and you'll have nothing to leave to your own children.
[quote name='camoor']
JoePa, Ken Lay, the DC Madam, folks who were central to the scandal dying just before the investigation can get into full swing.
[/QUOTE]
What was so bad about the DC Madam? Prostitution between consenting adults should be legal and regulated.
 
What do they sue Paterno's estate for? Negligence? Did he have a duty to protect or warn those kids? Maybe and we are definitely going to find out but I'm not so sure it is a slam dunk win.
 
Whether they are successful or not is another matter entirely, but I certainly support any victim and/or their families going after his estate in order to tarnish his legacy and take his wealth.
 
[quote name='camoor']Not sure what this means, how would you propose they fix the situation?[/QUOTE]

Years of counseling and time. It's so bogus to see someone deal with an emotional or tragic event brought upon them by someone else and immediately the first thing anyone thinks about is about the lawsuit and monetary settlement that is coming down the line when they talk about the situation. They act like money is going to make the victims pain go away, and that it will stick it to the person that did it in the first place. I don't plan on debating any further seeing as this is just an opinion I have and obviously there are no facts that can be argued by either side (mine or someone who disagress with me, other than that money can provide great counseling).
 
[quote name='Spokker']Whether they are successful or not is another matter entirely, but I certainly support any victim and/or their families going after his estate in order to tarnish his legacy and take his wealth.[/QUOTE]

Me too.
 
Let's focus on Joe Paterno when 100's of other people failed these kids including parents, judges and child services.

And forgive me for asking but at least a few of these victims are now adults.... why wait so long to speak out?
 
I imagine people are going to go after the school as well. Maybe even the state too, since Paterno was a state employee.

As for parents? I don't know. You certainly don't expect a famous football coach's assistant to assfuck your kids as part of the underprivileged youth program they go to. Remember, Sandusky met all the children he victimized through The Second Mile charity.
 
[quote name='Spokker']I imagine people are going to go after the school as well. Maybe even the state too, since Paterno was a state employee.

As for parents? I don't know. You certainly don't expect a famous football coach's assistant to assfuck your kids as part of the underprivileged youth program they go to.[/QUOTE]


Right... well in my opinion something is wrong if Target #1 turns into Joe Paterno when:

Jerry Sandusky, the one-time heir apparent to Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, told a boy's mother in 1998 that he had showered with her son and with other boys but he wouldn't promise to stop, according to a Pennsylvania grand jury report.

Police in State College, Penn., listened in to two conversations Sandusky had with the mother, with her permission, after her then-11-year-old son came home with hair wet from showing with Sandusky. At the end of the second conversation, Sandusky was told he could not see the boy anymore.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57321248/cops-sandusky-admitted-to-98-shower-with-boy/

^ A mother and police knew about the molestations and rapes back in 1998 yet we are focusing on Joe Paterno



Long said Matt was a good kid but began acting out after Sandusky entered the picture, and his behavior got progressively worse. She became alarmed by Sandusky's controlling behavior and tried to stop visitation in the fall of 1994.
But Sandusky continued taking Matt out of school, without her knowledge or consent, she said.
"I didn't like his treatment of Matt," she said. "I thought he was a little too possessive, and it was my son, not his son."
In early December 1994, Matt set fire to a barn. He spent his 16th birthday, on Dec. 26, in juvenile detention. On Jan. 6, 1995, records show, he was placed in foster care — with the Sandusky family.
Long said she knew Matt would be placed in a Second Mile foster home but didn't think it would be with the Sandusky family. Of all the foster families in Centre County, "he had to end up with that one," she said. It struck her as odd.
"Jerry told Matt that he had a judge ready to sign the order and nobody could stop it," she said. "He told Matt before we ever went to court that I wouldn't win against him. Matt came right to me and told me, he said, 'Mom, Jerry said you wouldn't win against him.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/birth-mom-raised-questions-jerry-sandusky-063109256--spt.html

^ Let's see we have another mother (biological) who suspected something nearly two decades ago and a grown man, also a victim with the last name Sandusky that waited over a decade to report abuse and initally lied about it on trial but we are going to make Joe Paterno the focus?



I mean fuck these are only two small examples and there are literally dozens of people (many in higher legal authority then Paterno) who failed these kids and didn't stand tall and shout from the rooftops but we are going to target Paterno for monetary damages?

I don't know how things work in PA but why did everyone just swallow their tongues? Moms, victims, teachers, judges, police
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Years of counseling and time. It's so bogus to see someone deal with an emotional or tragic event brought upon them by someone else and immediately the first thing anyone thinks about is about the lawsuit and monetary settlement that is coming down the line when they talk about the situation. They act like money is going to make the victims pain go away, and that it will stick it to the person that did it in the first place. I don't plan on debating any further seeing as this is just an opinion I have and obviously there are no facts that can be argued by either side (mine or someone who disagress with me, other than that money can provide great counseling).[/QUOTE]

Therapists and counselors don't work for free.

Plus if someone in JoePa's place is not motivated by basic morality, maybe the the threat of being financially ruined will motivate him.
 
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