PlayStation 4 - General Discussion Thread

[quote name='kill3r7']This is disappointing news. Not shocking but still disappointing. I might as well stop buying PSN games now. There is no point to continue investing in games that I will have to rebuy in a couple of years when they are re-released for the PS4. The same goes for M$ if they intend to follow suit. There is something inherently wrong with this idea/business model.[/QUOTE]
This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']As expected (and as I expect for the next Xbox also), nothing announced that excited me. These new consoles are going to be more incremental updates than in past generations. Having games in 1080p will be nice I guess. But I'm still happy with my 360 and PS3 and have enough games to keep me busy for a good while so I'll give the next gen a year or two and wait til at least the first price drop and decide whether I still game enough to justify buying another console and if so which to get.[/QUOTE]

I feel like EVERYBODY is saying this. It's making this next generation of consoles feel extremely forced. I get that it's been 7 years since the PS3 launched (and 8 for the 360), but Sony had originally talked about a 10 year cycle...which honestly, might fit people's needs better in today's world. As you said, the systems themselves aren't going to be huge leaps forward. Based on what I got out of the presentation, was one of the biggest points really that you can turn the system on/off on a whim? Who in the hell does that cater to?

Honestly, other than not being interested in spending $400 on a system right now, I got several negatives out of the conference. No backward compatibility...which likely means no PSN carry-over. And very possibly, no used games. I could maybe swallow the no backward compatibility...just trying to view it from a technological standpoint. But the no used games is just pure greed.

I don't know how that can't be looked at as basically starting a war with Gamestop. And it wouldn't shock me at all if Gamestop refused to carry these new consoles if that's true. The ONLY way I don't see eliminating used games as a terrible thing is if it drives new prices down by at least half. If I can't resell a game, I'm not paying over $30 for anything. I keep seeing comparisons to Steam...but Steam has full games for like $3 a lot of times. I just can't see Microsoft or Sony being that generous. If they eliminate used games...but keep prices similar to what they are now, I think you can kiss console gaming goodbye. I know I would be done in that instance.
 
I think the 360 had the lead for me early in this gen but lately I've been leaning more towards my PS3. The content I've been getting with Plus for the Vita and the PS3 holds more value then anything offered with XBOX Live.

I used to keep all my games but lately I like just playing through them and dumping them so BC is getting to be less of an issue for me.

As an owner of a wii, 360, and PS3 I'm seriously considering just sticking with 1 system this gen. Between all the systems there is just too much I still haven't played. It might make sense for me to play as much as I can before these new systems and do a mass trade in\sell off and start fresh next gen. I also have a gaming PC but I think I'm starting to lean back more on the ease of consoles.

The one truly killer feature is the suspend mode. I absolutely love it on the VITA and glad it will be in the PS4.

I think I'll take a wait and see approach though and see what the next xbox will bring as well. I'm a little worn out on the ad mania feel of the 360 currently.

As for them not showing the console, not sure why everyone is going nuts over that, here's a prediction....it will be a black box.
 
[quote name='smartbombUK']Watched the first 5 minutes lastnight and got bored so decided to read what the bulk of it was today. From the sound of it it sounds okay. The PS3 is my last console/generation so it wasnt gonna matter to me what it was like but I was still interested to see what I would be missing.

Would liked to have seen the console design itself but that'll come later. No permanent online connection required and able to buy used games is a huge plus and puts pressure on M$ to act accordingly or drive its custom away and into the arms of Sony. Generally feel that I wont be missing out on a massive amount, would never make use of the social features, Im anti-facebook/twitter and all that so that would be wasted on me. And allowing people to play my games for me, why would I want to do that, buy a game, get it home and then let my friends play it for me while I sat and watched ? Might aswell just give them my cash o_O[/QUOTE]

Friends playing the hard part for you is the dumbest feature. Maybe there will be gaming pros that you can pay! LOL

The PS3 is your last console? Why are you leaving the world of game consoles?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I feel like EVERYBODY is saying this. It's making this next generation of consoles feel extremely forced. I get that it's been 7 years since the PS3 launched (and 8 for the 360), but Sony had originally talked about a 10 year cycle...which honestly, might fit people's needs better in today's world. As you said, the systems themselves aren't going to be huge leaps forward. Based on what I got out of the presentation, was one of the biggest points really that you can turn the system on/off on a whim? Who in the hell does that cater to?

Honestly, other than not being interested in spending $400 on a system right now, I got several negatives out of the conference. No backward compatibility...which likely means no PSN carry-over. And very possibly, no used games. I could maybe swallow the no backward compatibility...just trying to view it from a technological standpoint. But the no used games is just pure greed.

I don't know how that can't be looked at as basically starting a war with Gamestop. And it wouldn't shock me at all if Gamestop refused to carry these new consoles if that's true. The ONLY way I don't see eliminating used games as a terrible thing is if it drives new prices down by at least half. If I can't resell a game, I'm not paying over $30 for anything. I keep seeing comparisons to Steam...but Steam has full games for like $3 a lot of times. I just can't see Microsoft or Sony being that generous. If they eliminate used games...but keep prices similar to what they are now, I think you can kiss console gaming goodbye. I know I would be done in that instance.[/QUOTE]
Used games are accepted, said Sony, check the PsN thread for link to source.
 
It's going to be a one console home for nearly every gamer I expect as it seems that nearly all games are cross platform. The number of exclusives seems to be shrinking from generation to generation.

So Microsoft show us what you can do better! If you can't do it better or cheaper then Sony will win.
 
[quote name='Lord_Kefka']As for backwards compatibility, not at all surprised by the lack of it. And seriously, does anyone believe it's a hardware limitation? We all watched a 2-hour presentation telling us that the PS4 is powerful enough to socially network the entire world, stream everything, exponentially leap up the graphics, and in the words of Media Molecule "make our dreams come true" by 3-D rendering our own Pixar looking animation. But it CAN'T play a PS1 game? For fuck's sake, the PSP can jam an emulator and play them just fine. This wouldn't be because they (in Sony, MS, etc) figured out that they could SELL us those games in a digital store format?[/QUOTE]

It's not about the power of the PS4, it's the architecture. The PS3 uses the CELL (IBM) + RSX (nVidia), while the PS4 will use an x86 AMD CPU + APU (ATI). Completely different architectures = VERY hard to support BC. Hence Gaikai :)
 
[quote name='TooPoor']This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whether there's a technological reason for it...it's still a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the logistics of it. What they're going to see is that they already bought the game (maybe only months ago)...and have no reason to buy it again. This is why people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu Ray...and why the Wii U isn't selling nearly as good as the Wii. Convincing people that the same product on a new format is just BETTER is not going to drive sales. So, even if what you say is true...Sony (and Microsoft) can enjoy sticking to their guns and watching their sales go nowhere.

You could maybe argue that it's unreasonable to expect your purchases from the previous console to carry forward (ie. Hey...Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I would also argue with DLC and XBLA/PSN games, people have invested A LOT more money than in any previous generation. If this doesn't create a hope that that content will be supported going forward, what it IS going to do is make people take MUCH longer before they're ready to move on. And that's what Sony/MS needs to decide...either make the transition to new consoles easy for people, or find a good book to read while people take their time accepting your new systems...and don't be surprised if you lose some people along the way.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.[/QUOTE]

How is that an entitled request? If they (Sony, M$ etc) expect us to invest in digital content (PSN/XBLA games) then they should not require us to rebuy the "same" content on next gen consoles. Just to be clear I'm not talking about PS3 digital games. I'm strictly talking about PSN/XBLA titles. Also, I am fully aware of PS3's architectural shortcomings hence why I never thought that BC was possible for PS3 games. However, I figured that Sony would transfer the PSN content we purchased to the PS4.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']Used games are accepted, said Sony, check the PsN thread for link to source.[/QUOTE]

Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-release-date-news-and-features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']Just to be clear I'm not talking about PS3 digital games. I'm strictly talking about PSN/XBLA titles. Also, I am fully aware of PS3's architectural shortcomings hence why I never thought that BC was possible for PS3 games. However, I figured that Sony would transfer the PSN content we purchased to the PS4.[/QUOTE]

Both PS3 disc-based games and PSN games utilize the same convoluted processor architecture. Why would porting PS3 or PSN games be different?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-release-date-news-and-features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.[/QUOTE]
If they go that route they might as well say goodbye. It's not that people wont buy digital games, it's people wont buy digital games for $60. Steam works because you can buy games for $2.50- $5, and these are full retail games. Unless Sony can go aggressive as Steam, no one would buy them except for the die hard people.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-release-date-news-and-features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.[/QUOTE]
Yep, don't remember the link. At this stage I'd ignore all the speculation because it's not going to do anything but get people worked up. Sony should keep the info rolling between now and launch. So, I'd just focus on first hand info.
 
I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?
 
[quote name='Thrinn']Both PS3 disc-based games and PSN games utilize the same convoluted processor architecture. Why would porting PS3 or PSN games be different?[/QUOTE]
This^ It has nothing to do with the disc. Remember, the reader is also blu-ray. It'd be like plugging a blu-ray player into your PC and expecting it to just play PS3 games. It doesn't work that way.

[quote name='tylerh1701']I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?[/QUOTE]
I would expect so. It all depends on how similar the 2 systems are. If Microsoft makes a crazy leap like sony did this gen then no. But I don't see anyone making that mistake again.
 
[quote name='tylerh1701']I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?[/QUOTE]
I would expect so. It all depends on how similar the 2 systems are. If Microsoft makes a crazy leap like sony did this gen then no. But I don't see anyone making that mistake again.
 
All this "what will work/what won't work" is just too bloody confusing. Sony needs to clear that noise up with a quickness, stop assuming people will automatically move over to a new system. Reducing/eliminating incentives to move over will stall adoption, which will stall software sales, which will stall further software development.

Maybe they should take a look at the Vita's trajectory if they need evidence of what I'm saying.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Woocls']This^ It has nothing to do with the disc. Remember, the reader is also blu-ray. It'd be like plugging a blu-ray player into your PC and expecting it to just play PS3 games. It doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]

Even if this is true...it still doesn't mean it's not a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the technological limitations. What they're going to see is that they just bought the same game (maybe even months before), and have no reason to buy it again. This is basically the reason people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu-Ray...and why the WiiU hasn't been selling as well as the Wii. People are happy with what they've got. Trying to convince them that the same products are better just because they're on a new format isn't going to drive sales.

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.
 
[quote name='tylerh1701']I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?[/QUOTE]

The Xbox used a x86 Processor, the Xbox 360 used a PowerPC Processor and the 3rd Xbox is most likely to use a x64 Processor... So probably not, but we'll just have to wait and see.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Even if this is true...it still doesn't mean it's not a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the technological limitations. What they're going to see is that they just bought the same game (maybe even months before), and have no reason to buy it again. This is basically the reason people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu-Ray...and why the WiiU hasn't been selling as well as the Wii. People are happy with what they've got. Trying to convince them that the same products are better just because they're on a new format isn't going to drive sales.

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.[/QUOTE]
Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?!
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.[/QUOTE]

The thing is that these companies don't want to be selling new platforms at cost or at a loss if people are going to buy them to play games they already own. They want to be selling you new content.
 
Thinking about BC, they had three real options: 1) Attach a cell processor for no other reason than BC, and increase the cost of a PS4 by something like $100. 2) Don't give a care about hardware related BC, and try to develop a good software-related solution. 3) Keep the cell processor for the entire system, even though it's been getting in the way of developers trying to make games.

If the games coming out for PS4 are either so bad or the good ones so far between that I really want to play PS3 games, that's far worse than the no-BC problem.
 
[quote name='KillerRamen']The Xbox used a x86 Processor, the Xbox 360 used a PowerPC Processor and the 3rd Xbox is most likely to use a x64 Processor... So probably not, but we'll just have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]
The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']If the games coming out for PS4 are either so bad or the good ones so far between that I really want to play PS3 games, that's far worse than the no-BC problem.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! It's like looking at the vita and saying why can't you play UMDs? If you wanted a UMD player buy a PSP... if you want new content pick up the Vita. Sure as a consumer it sucks that I can't get everything I want in one nice package but that's just the way it goes. If Sony can't give me new content that worth playing then they have bigger issues than even the used games debate..
 
[quote name='Woocls']Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?![/QUOTE]

If you're referring to games purchased on PSN as "PS3 Games", then it's just a way for people to move forward at the pace that Sony feels is necessary without people feeling like they've just thrown a bunch of money down the drain on very recent purchases. I'm not talking about the hardcore, mom's basement, 16 hours a day gamer.

I'm talking about adults who have other things to spend their money on. Yes, they're "old games". Wowee. I'm not even saying Sony NEEDS to support them. Just don't be shocked when we're not ready to move at your pace and buy "the next greatest thing" that maybe you'll decide to stop supporting in 5 years the next go round.

[quote name='Thrinn']The thing is that these companies don't want to be selling new platforms at cost or at a loss if people are going to buy them to play games they already own. They want to be selling you new content.[/QUOTE]

I get that. But mykevermin hit the same point I did. You're going to alienate people and it's going to stunt the growth of the new system. People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing. This isn't like moving from the PS2 or Xbox. There is an incredibly expansive online structure now with thousands of digital games, game add-ons, and freaking clothes for your virtual self. People aren't just going to chuck that aside and gleefully start tossing their money down the next rabbit hole.

The "game" has changed very much in the past 7-8 years. I don't think the promise of new software and pretty graphics is going to be enough to convince people to upgrade anymore. The only hope is that these new systems won't cost developers a fortune to make games for...as I think that really took a toll this last generation. Otherwise, we'll probably see more and more developers moving to the digital format....which Sony and Microsoft won't support the following generation.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.[/QUOTE]
RRoD isn't there concern since all of those systems are out (or should be out soon) of warranty. And the slims don't have the failure rate that the old ones did. Besides... it's no different than picking up any old system (except ps2... they kept making those for way longer than I thought they should.)
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.[/QUOTE]

That and how long content stays on the market place. When they shut off access to XBox Live for the original XBox everything was gone with no way to re-download.

Some files on the 360 are not transferable as well. I know things like Ninja Gaiden 2 saves and DLC and some other content.

Stuff like this just makes me want to be a PC gamer more and more and just buy consoles for exclusive titles.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']If you're referring to games purchased on PSN as "PS3 Games", then it's just a way for people to move forward at the pace that Sony feels is necessary without people feeling like they've just thrown a bunch of money down the drain on very recent purchases. I'm not talking about the hardcore, mom's basement, 16 hours a day gamer.

I'm talking about adults who have other things to spend their money on. Yes, they're "old games". Wowee. I'm not even saying Sony NEEDS to support them. Just don't be shocked when we're not ready to move at your pace and buy "the next greatest thing" that maybe you'll decide to stop supporting in 5 years the next go round.



I get that. But mykevermin hit the same point I did. You're going to alienate people and it's going to stunt the growth of the new system. People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing. This isn't like moving from the PS2 or Xbox. There is an incredibly expansive online structure now with thousands of digital games, game add-ons, and freaking clothes for your virtual self. People aren't just going to chuck that aside and gleefully start tossing their money down the next rabbit hole.

The "game" has changed very much in the past 7-8 years. I don't think the promise of new software and pretty graphics is going to be enough to convince people to upgrade anymore. The only hope is that these new systems won't cost developers a fortune to make games for...as I think that really took a toll this last generation. Otherwise, we'll probably see more and more developers moving to the digital format....which Sony and Microsoft won't support the following generation.[/QUOTE]
If you have other things to spend your money on I'll ask my question again... Why are you buying a PS4 and then bitching about it?! I assume you already have a PS3 since you're buying digital content for it. Just cause the next best greatest thing comes out doesn't mean you have to jump on it and expect to just toss out your old system. If you're buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play you're doing it wrong... Plus, people have been complaining about the move to digital forever now. Because you only have access to the content while it's supported. No reason to act like this wasn't a very real possibility from the start.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing.[/QUOTE]I'm very worried that Sony & MS could run into the same lukewarm reception that the Wii U is currently enduring. The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.
 
[quote name='Thrinn']I'm very worried that Sony & MS could run into the same lukewarm reception that the Wii U is currently enduring. The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.[/QUOTE]
The problem the Wii-U had (and still has) is a lack of publisher support. There's very few reasons to buy one right now. And as long as people aren't buying it there's very few reasons to put your game on it. It's a vicious cycle that could kill the future of gaming if it happens to both sony and MS. We need at least one of the big 3 to come out swinging for the fence. My bet is on MS. They LOVE throwing money at problems which could actually work this time.
 
[quote name='Woocls']Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?![/QUOTE]

As has been stated over and over again in this thread. People usually like to get rid of their old consoles. Personally I hate a cluttered entertainment center so I will only have the PS4 and NextBox. Thus, why should I have to buy a game such PvZ or Journey for the PS4 if I already own it for the PS3? The same goes for the NextBox. I don't think it's unreasonable for consumers to want/expect their digital content to transfer over. If you buy a new iPad or an Android based tablet your old digital content still works on the new device. The same principle applies to Steam games. I already paid for it once in digital format.

IMO this is not a customer friendly policy. Just my 2 cents.
 
[quote name='Woocls']If you have other things to spend your money on I'll ask my question again... Why are you buying a PS4 and then bitching about it?! I assume you already have a PS3 since you're buying digital content for it. Just cause the next best greatest thing comes out doesn't mean you have to jump on it and expect to just toss out your old system. If you're buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play you're doing it wrong... Plus, people have been complaining about the move to digital forever now. Because you only have access to the content while it's supported. No reason to act like this wasn't a very real possibility from the start.[/QUOTE]

:wall: Are you dense? I just got done explaining that it's going to cause people to be slower to buy a PS4. Due to the wealth of content that was available for the PS3, my system is loaded up with games and features (some of which I haven't played all the way through/explored fully), that I don't feel compelled to buy a PS4 any time soon...ESPECIALLY if it doesn't suppport those items I'm not done with yet. So, I'm not buying one, numbnuts. You're basically making the argument that that is what Sony is after here...discouraging people from buying the PS4. Wow! What an ingenious marketing tactic.
 
[quote name='Thrinn']The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.[/QUOTE]

That's definitely a valid point. I would argue that the Wii's original customer base has a lot to do with that though. That thing sold like crazy to people who don't ever buy gaming systems. So, now...7 years later, those people are STILL playing Wii Bowling (I know several of them), and have no interest in the Wii U. Nintendo could have given people a free puppy with the Wii U and it still wouldn't have sold as well.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']:wall: Are you dense? I just got done explaining that it's going to cause people to be slower to buy a PS4. Due to the wealth of content that was available for the PS3, my system is loaded up with games and features (some of which I haven't played all the way through/explored fully), that I don't feel compelled to buy a PS4 any time soon...ESPECIALLY if it doesn't suppport those items I'm not done with yet. So, I'm not buying one, numbnuts. You're basically making the argument that that is what Sony is after here...discouraging people from buying the PS4. Wow! What an ingenious marketing tactic.[/QUOTE]
Ok, then play your PS3/PSN games and wait on the PS4. Having BC isn't going to suddenly make buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play a better idea.... It'd be stupid to buy a PS4 unless you want to play PS4 games. That's my point.
 
[quote name='Woocls']Ok, then play your PS3/PSN games and wait on the PS4. Having BC isn't going to suddenly make buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play a better idea.... It'd be stupid to buy a PS4 unless you want to play PS4 games. That's my point.[/QUOTE]

No it's not. The two are not mutually exclusive. One can enjoy PS4 games while still playing their old PSN titles on their brand spanking new PS4.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']No it's not. The two are not mutually exclusive. One can enjoy PS4 games while still playing their old PSN titles on their brand spanking new PS4.[/QUOTE]
And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...
 
[quote name='Woocls']And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...[/QUOTE]

If it's not "early adopters who like to throw away money", then why are you even talking about the PS4? That's basically all it's going to be for the next 2 years, lol. All my point was is that if Sony or Microsoft don't think that some kind of incentive is going to be needed to convince people to move on to the next consoles by this Christmas, they are both in for a rude awakening. What good is reducing cost by not having a "feature" if nobody buys your console for 2 years...by which point, you've dropped the price anyway?
 
[quote name='Woocls']And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...[/QUOTE]

I think the digital content issue is a very big deal. Think about what happens a couple of years down the road when your PS3 HDD fails and you need to redownload your PSN games. Better yet, how about people who own so much content that it doesn't fit on their current HDD (more of a 360 issue). How do they get access to this content going forward? It seems to me that digital games lack the proper infrastructure to make them viable from the consumer perspective. Why should we as gamers have to pony up money for the same games over and over again? What's to stop the same thing from occurring with the PS5 and so on.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']How is that an entitled request? If they (Sony, M$ etc) expect us to invest in digital content (PSN/XBLA games) then they should not require us to rebuy the "same" content on next gen consoles. Just to be clear I'm not talking about PS3 digital games. I'm strictly talking about PSN/XBLA titles. Also, I am fully aware of PS3's architectural shortcomings hence why I never thought that BC was possible for PS3 games. However, I figured that Sony would transfer the PSN content we purchased to the PS4.[/QUOTE]
I said reasonable and entitled at the same time.

Allow me to make a comparison: many large scale softwares from, say Mentor Graphics and Cadence are not backwards compatible, and these cost me thousands of dollars for a license. If you upgrade from the XP to Win8, they will not port the software to Win8.

It is reasonable from your (and my) perspective, and I also want them to give me free PS4 titles if I already bought them on the PS3.

It is entitled because "transferring" PSN titles is THE SAME as supporting BC, it takes effort on their part, especially for the current generation leap. From a programmer's perspective, it amounts to coding a indie game and giving it to you for free.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']Even if this is true...it still doesn't mean it's not a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the technological limitations. What they're going to see is that they just bought the same game (maybe even months before), and have no reason to buy it again. This is basically the reason people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu-Ray...and why the WiiU hasn't been selling as well as the Wii. People are happy with what they've got. Trying to convince them that the same products are better just because they're on a new format isn't going to drive sales.

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.[/QUOTE]
Sony and MS have large marketing analysis teams, and they balanced the following:
(1) Support BC, satisfy the hardcore gamers, and in the process raising the cost of the system in the next console war, loosing new comers.
(2) Drop BC, piss off hardcore PS3 fans, abandon some of them, and focus on the new comers, lure them into PS4 with a reasonable price.
They chose the latter. Am I pissed? Yes I am. But I knew this would happen. They think their model is more profitable, while you think yours is. Nobody knows at this point.
 
I agree the digital content is an issue as well as the game patches and updates. I'd like to see a statement from Sony and Microsoft that their online services are going to remain around for 5, 10, or 20 years for the PS3 and Xbox 360. I do not feel like you must provide backwards compatibility but I do feel like that $300 on digital downloads should be available for a long long time for redownloading.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']I said reasonable and entitled at the same time.

Allow me to make a comparison: many large scale softwares from, say Mentor Graphics and Cadence are not backwards compatible, and these cost me thousands of dollars for a license. If you upgrade from the XP to Win8, they will not port the software to Win8.

It is reasonable from your (and my) perspective, and I also want them to give me free PS4 titles if I already bought them on the PS3.

It is entitled because "transferring" PSN titles is THE SAME as supporting BC, it takes effort on their part, especially for the current generation leap. From a programmer's perspective, it amounts to coding a indie game and giving it to you for free.


Sony and MS have large marketing analysis teams, and they balanced the following:
(1) Support BC, satisfy the hardcore gamers, and in the process raising the cost of the system in the next console war, loosing new comers.
(2) Drop BC, piss off hardcore PS3 fans, abandon some of them, and focus on the new comers, lure them into PS4 with a reasonable price.
They chose the latter. Am I pissed? Yes I am. But I knew this would happen. They think their model is more profitable, while you think yours is. Nobody knows at this point.[/QUOTE]

Option 2 is more profitable. You get more gamers at the lower price. The hardcore fans while pissed will still buy the system because of the lower cost.
 
There's no price cut coming for the Vita in N America. I don't have much to say about it other than I'm glad I sold mine (yet again). I won't be buying another.

To clarify the above: The point of me saying that I don't regret selling my Vita was because I feel that without a price drop others won't buy the Vita. If others don't buy the Vita we're never going to get more games for it, which sucks. No future games = me not regretting selling my Vita and leaves me with no intention of buying another.
 
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[quote name='Indiana']Option 2 is more profitable. You get more gamers at the lower price. The hardcore fans while pissed will still buy the system because of the lower cost.[/QUOTE]
That's what I kept saying. I'm sorry to say this but we hardcore PS1/2/3 fans are group of old people with much less sway than we think we posses. The market is in the younger fans, who are willing to mindlessly shell out money for the newest games and systems. What do they care, it's the parents that's paying anyways. And when you get to the age when you have kids, they will demand the PS4, they will demand you buy the game that all his/her friends are talking about. So it's a win-win situation for Sony.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']I said reasonable and entitled at the same time.

Allow me to make a comparison: many large scale softwares from, say Mentor Graphics and Cadence are not backwards compatible, and these cost me thousands of dollars for a license. If you upgrade from the XP to Win8, they will not port the software to Win8.

It is reasonable from your (and my) perspective, and I also want them to give me free PS4 titles if I already bought them on the PS3.

It is entitled because "transferring" PSN titles is THE SAME as supporting BC, it takes effort on their part, especially for the current generation leap. From a programmer's perspective, it amounts to coding a indie game and giving it to you for free.[/QUOTE]

I made this point in the XBLA thread, but I totally see where you're coming from...as it's definitely tangible work that needs to be done. But if that work is going to be done anyway (to sell the game on the new system), then Sony/MS just needs to take it on the chin for people who bought the game the previous generation. It's a show of good will and customer appreciation, and makes people feel better about future purchases. It also shows new customers that the company will back them up and they can feel good about their investment. So, while it may cost them money...the long-term effects should drastically outweigh that.

[quote name='TooPoor']Sony and MS have large marketing analysis teams, and they balanced the following:
(1) Support BC, satisfy the hardcore gamers, and in the process raising the cost of the system in the next console war, loosing new comers.
(2) Drop BC, piss off hardcore PS3 fans, abandon some of them, and focus on the new comers, lure them into PS4 with a reasonable price.
They chose the latter. Am I pissed? Yes I am. But I knew this would happen. They think their model is more profitable, while you think yours is. Nobody knows at this point.[/QUOTE]

That's a fair assessment. I just can't help but view it as anything but incredibly foolish. Yes, they have large marketing analysis teams...who make colossal mistakes and waste millions of dollars all the time. The notion that they could be overestimating the demand for a new system that alienates a portion of their install base is not that preposterous. But yeah...we'll see.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']I said reasonable and entitled at the same time.

Allow me to make a comparison: many large scale softwares from, say Mentor Graphics and Cadence are not backwards compatible, and these cost me thousands of dollars for a license. If you upgrade from the XP to Win8, they will not port the software to Win8.

It is reasonable from your (and my) perspective, and I also want them to give me free PS4 titles if I already bought them on the PS3.

It is entitled because "transferring" PSN titles is THE SAME as supporting BC, it takes effort on their part, especially for the current generation leap. From a programmer's perspective, it amounts to coding a indie game and giving it to you for free.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough however in your example you own a physical copy of the software or have access to a digital copy (in theory for "perpetuity"). The problem with PSN games is that once Sony/M$ decide to stop support for the PS3 and shut down the servers we are SOL. What happens a few years down the road when I need to redownload one of these PSN games? Will Sony/M$ continue to support these products? In other words will we have access to their product over the next 10 or 20 years.

I want to know this before I continue to buy PSN or Xbla games.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']There's no price cut coming for the Vita in N America. I don't have much to say about it other than I'm glad I sold mine (yet again). I won't be buying another.[/QUOTE]

I was tempted to pick one up from cowboom earlier this week but decided to hold off. E3 will play a huge role if Vita is to turn things around. Thus, I won't be buying one until then.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.[/QUOTE]

Yes this problem scares me. I often wonder if I should run out and purchase a backup console when the prices drop to $99.

Currently I have a back log of games to play and as long as that continues it would be a shame to not have a working console to play them on.
 
[quote name='Indiana']Friends playing the hard part for you is the dumbest feature. Maybe there will be gaming pros that you can pay! LOL

The PS3 is your last console? Why are you leaving the world of game consoles?[/QUOTE]

You can bet your ass this will produce a small number of 'pro-gamers' who will charge people to grind their XP or defeat certain bosses or whatnot. And you can also bet that there's fools out there who will pay them too.

Im 30 now and have a 1 year old lad. A feeling that Im too old for the next round of sitting up til 4am at weekends and the fits of gamer rage at something that is proving difficult combined with my lad now getting a sense of aventure and his surroundings and not just sleeping all the time has lead me to the decision to bow out. Has to come a time for everyone eventually, this is mine I feel.
 
I have no idea when or if I will buy a PS4. I still have a backlog of games for PS3 that I doubt I will be done with this year. We dont know what the Xbox will look like yet either. I may switch to that. I may not. I know that BC or not wont make my decision. I dont need to play 10 year old games everyday. I cant beleive most people do either. People just love to complain.

TooPoor, it is not all old people that want BC. I feel old at 33, and while I wouldnt mind reliving childhood every now and then with some classic games, I never actually play any games that are older than this generation. I dont have the time to go back and relive the past. Look to the future! LOL
 
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