Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

JP said:
The second annual wave. This year they actually put it on the camera correctly.

They did a good job of keeping the crowd from completely shitting on the show, until the final match. The fans went off the rails. Please retire, same old shit, *stadium wide wave*, CM Punk, we are awesome and shitting all over Reigns. That was a bad place to put the match.
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My favorite was "KEVIN OWENS"...at which point Lawler said something like "listen to these chants for Randy Orton!"
 
The crowd was good tonight until they turned into assbags during the main event. I fucking hate that self promotion garbage... "WE ARE AWSOME". No, actually you are all fat neckbeards but whatever.
 
I still haven't had a chance to watch the show since I got home at 11:45 and woke up at 5AM to hop a train, but I can't wait to see Lesnar go all out.

Also, man, y'all are hostile towards paying fans. Yikes. I mean, I get that it's silly to get yourselves over, and I've definitely had some eye-rolling groan moments in wrestling crowds (usually sitting 2nd row at ROH shows, speaking frankly) - but come on, now. This is probably the same kind of flippant "neckbeard"/"live in mom's basement" stuff that WWE talks about backstage when they decide to put Reigns over the entire roster.

So, have a bit of perspective. Those ubernerds in the crowd? That's you and me, for better and (definitely) for worse.

 
I really only saw one person being hostile. I love that kind of crowd, I think it'd be fun to be in that kind of crowd I just don't want to pay the money to be in it. Post-Mania Raw tickets are ridiculous in their prices unless you can get them direct from whichever ticket place they are sold through.

 
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Raw was pretty great for about 2 hours 45 minutes, or up until the main event in other words. The main event wasn't bad it just wasn't a great way to end a really exciting show. But of course the crowd shit all over it and had to make sure and get themselves over before the night was through. They can pay enormous amounts of money to go to that show and they can act like morons if they want, but I can also sit on my couch for free and call them all douche bags if I want as well. I just wish crowds like that (exciting Attitude Era crowds) would just go back to cheering/booing/chanting things that made sense for the show they are watching and the stuff they are actually seeing in front of them. I love Kevin Owens too but chanting his name last night (along with other NXT stars) when other people are actually wrestling is just dumb to me. Chant Big Show/Kane sucks all you want but Kevin Owens isn't coming out so shut the fuck up.
 
I have zero problems with the fan reaction last night (well some of the divas stuff was overboard, but I mean more in regards to the main event). If the company is basically going to arrogantly taunt the fans by - in front of THAT crowd - putting motherfucking Kane and Big Show in that main event opposite the guy the fans have CLEARLY stated they don't want as the top hero, they deserve whatever reaction they get.

 
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KaneRobot said:
I have zero problems with the fan reaction last night (well some of the divas stuff was overboard, but I mean more in regards to the main event). If the company is basically going to arrogantly taunt the fans by - in front of THAT crowd - putting motherfucking Kane and Big Show in that main event opposite the guy the fans have CLEARLY stated they don't want as the top hero, they deserve whatever reaction they get.
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Bullshit. It's Vince's company and he can put whoever he wants in the main event. Just admit, the fans nowadays are so greedy they want everything their way and if they don't get it, they throw a temper tantrum instead of stop watching. You don't hear Game Of Throne fans going on strikes and heckling the writers because their favorite character died on the show. Why do wrestling fans get to be so entitled?

 
So Cena ends Wyatt's winning streak last year and Rusev's streak this year.   Whose streak does he end next WM?  Neville's?

Thought WM was fun overall.  I have to admit I was laughing during the ladder match thanks to Dolph Ziggler. There were multiple times where someone was crawling up the ladder and Ziggler RAN UP the opposite end like his feet were on fire.

Sting match was slow so I thought nWo and DX saved it from putting people to sleep. I didn't hate it, but I thought the handshake moment was awkwardly done.

UT looked good. I actually liked this match more than Wyatt's matches with Dean Ambrose and Jericho.  The slower paced matches work better for him.

First Xavier Woods likes Vegeta now Ronda?! Had a huge grin on my face during that segment.

These Raw shows for the next 2 weeks are usually great. Got a great laugh out of the cameraman following the crowd's wave during the main event.

Even if King of the Ring doesn't happen (I think Heyman said Extreme Rules and Payback were next), I'll keep my WWE Network subscription so at least I'll have some live NXT to look forward to.

I greatly enjoyed the NXT love from the crowd (and for that matter Raw) last night. Didn't expect the Lucha Dragons to get a huge pop. 

 
TooMuchCoolness said:
Bullshit. It's Vince's company and he can put whoever he wants in the main event. Just admit, the fans nowadays are so greedy they want everything their way and if they don't get it, they throw a temper tantrum instead of stop watching. You don't hear Game Of Throne fans going on strikes and heckling the writers because their favorite character died on the show. Why do wrestling fans get to be so entitled?
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I see your point, but I'm not sure the comparison is so apt.

It's a shame that kayfabe being dead means that, instead of wanting to see Sting get his revenge vs HHH (whether that rematch would ever happen notwithstanding), we just say the writers and company are shit. True or not, I'm simply saying it's unfortunate.

Part of wrestling is that the guy you want to win shouldn't always win - and we should learn to be okay with that. Which doesn't mean we must accept and cheer for, say, Romain Reigns as champion. It just means that sometimes wrestling is just wrestling, and if your favorite dude is holding a "secondary" title, or jobbing out on Main Event - well, there may be a sensible, non-political reason for that.

As I'm typing this, I'm finally watching last night's Raw. Currently the crowd is chanting "New Day Sucks." It's not the most effective way to convey that those three dudes are talented but saddled with poor gimmicks, but that's what I got out of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Also in regards to that match, Lucha Dragons hella showed up on night one in a way that Ascension failed to in their debut. (They got lucky with timing, of course, as a smart crowd who knew them was ready to embrace them - but still, their in-ring work was precisely what it needed to be in their debut.)

 
TooMuchCoolness said:
Bullshit. It's Vince's company and he can put whoever he wants in the main event. Just admit, the fans nowadays are so greedy they want everything their way and if they don't get it, they throw a temper tantrum instead of stop watching. You don't hear Game Of Throne fans going on strikes and heckling the writers because their favorite character died on the show. Why do wrestling fans get to be so entitled?
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You give the paying customer what they want, or they have the right to bitch about it. "Vince" is not above that. This is no different than any other company - it just so happens WWE is in a position to receive that feedback more immediately or directly. Game of Thrones isn't held in front of a fucking live audience, or you can bet your ass the arena would be filled to capacity with nerdy obsessives complaining when something didn't go the way they wanted.

People complaining about last night's crowd are being contrarian against the contrarians because I guess being "anti-smark" is the new cool thing to do. fuck that. We're not going back to the 80's. Last night's fans are the most devoted that the company has, so they are going to be the most passionate about what they see presented, be it positive or negative.

But nah, let's go back to your apparent dream scenario of apathetic, just-shut-up-and-watch audiences we get most weeks on Raw. I'm sure it won't take more than another week before we're back to getting either zero reaction or (if they are feeling inspired) "WHAT" during promos.

 
My take on the crowd is they did pay their money and if they want to chant stupid shit and make themselves look retarded, so be it. However, there is a line between voicing your happiness and/or displeasure and being downright fuckheads with the nonsense during the divas match. I mean honestly, first people bitch and whine about give the divas a chance, then when that is what is being done you pretty much call them whores to their faces. Make up your damn minds already.

 
KaneRobot said:
You give the paying customer what they want, or they have the right to bitch about it. "Vince" is not above that. This is no different than any other company - it just so happens WWE is in a position to receive that feedback more immediately or directly. Game of Thrones isn't held in front of a fucking live audience, or you can bet your ass the arena would be filled to capacity with nerdy obsessives complaining when something didn't go the way they wanted.

People complaining about last night's crowd are being contrarian against the contrarians because I guess being "anti-smark" is the new cool thing to do. fuck that. We're not going back to the 80's. Last night's fans are the most devoted that the company has, so they are going to be the most passionate about what they see presented, be it positive or negative.

But nah, let's go back to your apparent dream scenario of apathetic, just-shut-up-and-watch audiences we get most weeks on Raw. I'm sure it won't take more than another week before we're back to getting either zero reaction or (if they are feeling inspired) "WHAT" during promos.
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I'm not trashing the crowd to be hip or cool, I'm doing it because they can be an embarassment to the human race in general. I hear a lot of bitching on the internet about the Divas not getting a chance, "Total Divas" ect, and then for a "smart" crowd to turn right around (during a good divas match that was being given time) and chant some of that bullshit just shows how pathetic these people are. The sense of entitlement today is crazy, one segment of a 3 hour+ show isn't exactly what they want so they throw a fucking pity-party and mark for themselves. When wrestling was good in the 80's-2000's people would be super involved and go nuts for stuff that was happening on the show itself, last night was pretty great and it still isn't good enough to satisfy today's fans. I just get sick and tired of all the dumbass chants and "WHAT" and all of it, fucking awful trash.
 
I think there's a lot of hyperbolic language on both sides that is continually being misread as outright hostility for anyone who disagrees with their point of view.

...Or, at the very least, perhaps I'm just hoping y'all aren't really as agitated about your opinions on a teevee program as your words suggest.

 
CJ Parker parted ways w/ WWE after WM weekend. Seems both sides were into it, and amicably so.

Good on 'em both, then. All's well that ends well, and hooray for zero salaciousness or bitterness.

 
I'm tired of those WHAT chants. How many years now has it been that Austin retired? JHC, it was funny for awhile but it's 2015 now.

I'm from San Jose so I'm not going to fully defend the crowd even when I say that people in general are stupid. The disrespect for the divas match sounds like we all just hold up to the neckbeard stereotype. smh
 
mykevermin said:
CJ Parker parted ways w/ WWE after WM weekend. Seems both sides were into it, and amicably so.

Good on 'em both, then. All's well that ends well, and hooray for zero salaciousness or bitterness.
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He was at Axxess a lot this past weekend and was billing himself as Mr Wrestlemania Axess cause at one time he was 22-0 or something like that during the live matches. So was kinda shocked that they had him winning so much considering they would try to bury guys just as they were about to leave. But nice to see it ended up working out for both parties.

 
I liked CJ Parker so I was kind of sad to hear about his release. There is a place in wrestling for people like him, good reliable workers who help get guys over and can carry themselves well in promos. People look down way too much on "jobbers" today and I don't get it, they serve a vital purpose. Guys like Rusev and Ryback get over by beating up these guys, which is better for everyone than them squashing guys like Ziggler and Ambrose right?
 
mykevermin said:
CJ Parker parted ways w/ WWE after WM weekend. Seems both sides were into it, and amicably so.

Good on 'em both, then. All's well that ends well, and hooray for zero salaciousness or bitterness.
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I've always liked Parker and really thought he had a lot to offer as heel. Dude owned his gimmick and wasn't bad in the ring either. Definitely glad to see him go though, NXT is too crowded with bigger names and Parker wouldn't have ever been more than a jobber in NXT or the on the main-roster and the guy is better than that and can offer a lot to other companies. I think he would be exceptional in TNA working a similar gimmick.

 
bhk said:
This is great. You're going to have an awesome time.
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Yeah, I had a great time. Great atmosphere, good card, and it was cool be see the things that you don't get to see watching it on TV.

For all the hate Cena gets from the older fans they seemed to all have their cameras/phones ready when he came out.

Donut2922 said:
I'm tired of those WHAT chants. How many years now has it been that Austin retired? JHC, it was funny for awhile but it's 2015 now.

I'm from San Jose so I'm not going to fully defend the crowd even when I say that people in general are stupid. The disrespect for the divas match sounds like we all just hold up to the neckbeard stereotype. smh
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It wasn't just San Jose, there were a lot of people not from the area and from overseas at the show. That how those lame soccer chants break out. But after a couple of minutes of the disrespectful chants towards the divas the crowd busted out some "let's go divas" and even booed the start of a "CM Punk" chant to start an "AJ Lee" one. It's a shame a couple of minutes of woman hating tried to devalue an entertaining divas match.

 
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TooMuchCoolness said:
Bullshit. It's Vince's company and he can put whoever he wants in the main event. Just admit, the fans nowadays are so greedy they want everything their way and if they don't get it, they throw a temper tantrum instead of stop watching. You don't hear Game Of Throne fans going on strikes and heckling the writers because their favorite character died on the show. Why do wrestling fans get to be so entitled?
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You're basically saying we should all be puppets.

Yeah no.

I'm paying money to a company, I want to see my guys with meaningful storylines or matches when they have proven to have talent. If someone sucks, i'm not going to still buy the shirt or watch tv or anything else. If i'm at a live event, its because I went to go see my guy do his thing, and shit on whoever the guy is who can't hold my guys sack.

 
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Decided to watch Raw chronologically, starting with episode #1.

Rob Bartlett was fucking *abysmal* as an announcer. Loudmouthed racist New Yawker. Probably friends with "Vic Venom."

 
Rigor Mortis said:
My take on the crowd is they did pay their money and if they want to chant stupid shit and make themselves look retarded, so be it. However, there is a line between voicing your happiness and/or displeasure and being downright fuckheads with the nonsense during the divas match. I mean honestly, first people bitch and whine about give the divas a chance, then when that is what is being done you pretty much call them whores to their faces. Make up your damn minds already.
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This is how I feel. I mean a crowd getting themselves over is annoying, but it is what it is. The only thing I wish though is that people would sometimes sit back and think about when they were kids and how wrestling was and keep that in mind before ruining shit for the kids, which is what wrestling is aimed for.

I think part of the issue is that anyone who grew up with the attitude era doesn't see it that way since the product was definitely not PG then. I started watching wrestling in the late 90s and 90s and so it was still a more family friendly product.

It's just annoying when a of kids clearly love John Cena, but you have a ton of adults booing the shit out of him for whatever smarky reasons. Just let the kids have their fun sometimes and keep the complaining to yourselves.

 
Cheaplikeafox OS X said:
The only thing I wish though is that people would sometimes sit back and think about when they were kids and how wrestling was and keep that in mind before ruining shit for the kids, which is what wrestling is aimed for.
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I agree with this *so much*. A buddy of mine does some indy shows on the east coast, and I try to support him and indies when I can (also, just saw Okada and Tanahashi are gonna be at the ROH shows at the ECW Arena in May - stoooooooked!). A lot of wrestling shows are for kids - fuck, man, I saw Tom Brandi (as The Patriot) over like a *motherfucker* in a high school gym filled with kids and families. A group of smarks would have taken a dump all over this show, but it was fun, the kids had fun, and the beer and hot dogs were cheap. Go with a group of friend with the purpose of simply having fun - not demanding that the show goes exactly the way you insist it must - and it really changes your perspective on things.

(and, just to be very clear and in case y'all didn't know me when I posted more yeaaaaars ago here - I was a rant-running bitch-ass, complain about everything smart mark. I once drank too much at a WWF show and attempted to go backstage to yell at The Undertaker about how awful the program was. Times were hard. I try to focus on doing things I enjoy now, and to stop caring so hard about wrestling while still being a huge fan. I've learned a lot in life, y'know.)

But, fuck yeah, go to have fun. I think there's a balance, and you're allowed to vocalize your displeasure with, say, Roman Reigns getting pushed, or whatever it might be. But if you leave a wrestling show pissed off, it's worth taking the time to think about whether the show sucked, or whether or not you're being really, really childish about entertainment. And, yes, sure, Vince and company can be vindictive, petty, and childlike themselves (taking cheap shots at Young Bucks etc etc.). That doesn't give you license to *also* have a temper tantrum.

Man, now I want a cheap beer and a cheaper hot dog.

EDIT: Relevant to the child thing, Cena's been fine lately. Out of the main event, doing the superhero thing, not the center of attention - and smarks still dump on him. It's just a Pavlovian response at this point, and not at all thought through. He's fine now - harmless at worst, helping the midcard and getting Rusev over at best.

 
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New theme for Sheamus. I already miss "Too Many Limes". I wanna rip those stupid dingleberries right off his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGgixfZSRs

 
mykevermin said:
Decided to watch Raw chronologically, starting with episode #1.

Rob Bartlett was fucking *abysmal* as an announcer. Loudmouthed racist New Yawker. Probably friends with "Vic Venom."
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I started doing that soon after the network launched. I think I made it through a year's worth of episodes, but I haven't gone back in a long while. That's a testament to how much good stuff is available on the network.
 
mykevermin said:
I once drank too much at a WWF show and attempted to go backstage to yell at The Undertaker about how awful the program was.
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I'm sure it was serious for you at the time, but man, This part cracked me up. I think it's because of all people you wanted to yell at in your drunken state, you chose the Undertaker.
 
Really enjoyed the Roman interview. Naomi-Nattie was short and sweet, as was Nattie's neckline. Cena's U.S. Title challenge is so great. Kurt Angle answering this challenge would be a fun little callback to Cena's debut...ain't gonna happen though.THIS IS RUSEV COUNTRY! THIS IS RUSEV WORLD! Everything with Cena and Rusev ruled. Ditto the whole Bryan-Sheamus thing. Barrett stole the show on commentary and the match itself gave Sheamus a time to shine as a badass heel. I love his new entrance presentation. His spotlight and Celtic God of War theme combo work well and he added some new moves to his offense. The blood was a surprise and if this had been the Raw main event, they'd have solidified the IC Title as a main event-level title.

http://jayreviewsthings.blogspot.com/2015/04/wwe-smackdown-4-2-15.html

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http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/nvwni13v9m7tzqctepig0vy1as56o9cb

 
mykevermin said:
Decided to watch Raw chronologically, starting with episode #1.

Rob Bartlett was fucking *abysmal* as an announcer. Loudmouthed racist New Yawker. Probably friends with "Vic Venom."
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I'm doing the same, I also watch the PPV's as I get to them, just watched Summerslam 94.

Rob Bartlett was bad but Bobby Heenan was so good, I was legitimately gutted when he leaves Raw.

 
Impact -

They debuted new wacky hand-drawn graphics for the show that were hilariously bad. Then they talked about this being the first EY-Roode match...before recapping the other ones. EY and Roode started the "bell to bell" show with talking - and not even good talking. They had probably their best match yet with EY kind of cheating to win with the leg brace and taking the ref out, but I just can't get excited about their matches. They've had too many and no matter how many good wrinkles they add to this feud, it's not doing anything for me.

Wolves cut horrible promos to surrender the tag titles. I did like them placing a belt in a corner and bowing to it, but these men need a manager badly. Gail-Love was a pretty good match greatly hurt by SUB-RAW LEVEL COMMENTARY. Wacky Ghost Asylum/Revolution skit amused me. Bram vs. Magnus was fine in highlight form, but dragged on and made little sense at times in real-time. 

Lashley vs. Kurt was fantastic. This might've been even better than their first match, and was better than anything other than the main event at WrestleMania. I didn't like the shoulder up finish though. They did it throughout the whole thing, which makes the referee look really bad since that means he wasn't looking at the right part of the body for any part of the count. Still, it was a must-see match and well-worth going out of your way to see. The rest of the show is quite skippable, however.

http://jayreviewsthings.blogspot.com/2015/04/tna-impact-wrestling-4-3-15.html

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http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/6pws1yf0k5xw09h979ohtpmfdwrjgl9n

 
Bayley was poating pics of her and AJ over the weekend saying stuff like "we're expecting...Paige and AJ to win on Sunday" and hugging her around the waist. Seems pretty likely that AJ quit because she's pregnant. Also would explain why she barely did anything in the matches this week.
 
Those hand drawn graphics are kind of interesting.  I liked the illustrated X Division DVD covers from back in the day, so I actually kinda like this.

 
So I made the effort to watch TNA for the first time in years and man has it gotten worse.  No space outside of the ring, awful announcers in another room, most disinterested crowd ever.  

I don't mind Tazz, but the team doesn't work.  They spent most of the Knockouts match arguing about something unrelated to the match.  

Sad because the show has so much potential.

Angle vs. Lashley was a great match though.  Wish the crowd would have been into it.  

 
Unfortunately they did this set of tapings in Orlando which has pretty much the worst crowds.  The shows they did most recently in England were far better.

 
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