Proposition 8 same sex marriage ban poll
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This is the sanctity of heterosexual marriage: http://www.locationweddings.net/lasvegasdrivethruwedding.html
depascal22
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There really isn't anything left. Prop 8 passed.
Maybe you guys should just call it a Jim Crow law or something like that. Attach the most negative thing you possibly can to it. Go all Karl Rove on this shit and maybe people will come to realize it's nothing but unconstitutional discrimination.
Maybe you guys should just call it a Jim Crow law or something like that. Attach the most negative thing you possibly can to it. Go all Karl Rove on this shit and maybe people will come to realize it's nothing but unconstitutional discrimination.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']lets keep it the thread on the issue. not your guys first experience. thats what the blogs are for 
also, nathansu, the edit button is your friend.[/QUOTE]
It was related to the topic. Idiots who believe marriage is THAT sacred and one of the reasonings behind the ban is to protect the sanctity of marriage, when of course, there really is no sanctity.
My friend is obviously gay.
He forces himself to live the "straight life", but lies to himself. Of course, lying to his GF who is also going to be his wife.
What kind of marriage is THAT?
And for the record, it wasn't like a one time thing where we fooled around. 1 time thing = experiment. 3 years, and lots of it? = sexual relationship.
also, nathansu, the edit button is your friend.[/QUOTE]
It was related to the topic. Idiots who believe marriage is THAT sacred and one of the reasonings behind the ban is to protect the sanctity of marriage, when of course, there really is no sanctity.
My friend is obviously gay.
He forces himself to live the "straight life", but lies to himself. Of course, lying to his GF who is also going to be his wife.
What kind of marriage is THAT?
And for the record, it wasn't like a one time thing where we fooled around. 1 time thing = experiment. 3 years, and lots of it? = sexual relationship.
GuilewasNK
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[quote name='lilboo']And for the record, it wasn't like a one time thing where we fooled around. 1 time thing = experiment. 3 years, and lots of it? = sexual relationship.[/quote]
I would agree with that.
Personally, I think everyone is at least bi-curious on a superficial level. How else could you explain masturbation?
I would agree with that.
Personally, I think everyone is at least bi-curious on a superficial level. How else could you explain masturbation?
Kirin Lemon
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[quote name='lilboo']
Nah, even I'm not gay enough to be an alter boy.
My friend, who I first started to fool around with, was an alter boy and in choir.
He recently got engaged.
To a female.
Sanctity of marriage my ball hair.
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Hex']My first m/m experience is engaged to a chick too. :lol:
A mormon girl. They live in Salt Lake.
I can only imagine how that fun we had weighs in on that mormon head of his.[/QUOTE]
I can top both of you (pun intended)! My first boyfriend recently got married (the man-and-woman kind), and I was best man at the wedding.
Nah, even I'm not gay enough to be an alter boy.
My friend, who I first started to fool around with
, was an alter boy and in choir.He recently got engaged.
To a female.
Sanctity of marriage my ball hair.
[/QUOTE][quote name='Hex']My first m/m experience is engaged to a chick too. :lol:
A mormon girl. They live in Salt Lake.
I can only imagine how that fun we had weighs in on that mormon head of his.
[/QUOTE]I can top both of you (pun intended)! My first boyfriend recently got married (the man-and-woman kind), and I was best man at the wedding.
nathansu
Banned
[quote name='depascal22']There really isn't anything left. Prop 8 passed.
Maybe you guys should just call it a Jim Crow law or something like that. Attach the most negative thing you possibly can to it. Go all Karl Rove on this shit and maybe people will come to realize it's nothing but unconstitutional discrimination.[/quote]
It passed, but it's currently not being enforced due to the lawsuits.
Maybe you guys should just call it a Jim Crow law or something like that. Attach the most negative thing you possibly can to it. Go all Karl Rove on this shit and maybe people will come to realize it's nothing but unconstitutional discrimination.[/quote]
It passed, but it's currently not being enforced due to the lawsuits.
BuckFarack
Banned
When my partner Dominick (see avatar) gets his sex change next year, this whole Prop 8 fiasco won't be such a big deal.
s?
Chuplayer
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[quote name='depascal22']There really isn't anything left. Prop 8 passed. [/QUOTE]
There really needs to be some sort of civil disobedience among gay people now. Like, the gay equivalent of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. Prop 8 is yet another "separate but equal" and we all know how that turned out last time.
*is a straight male*
There really needs to be some sort of civil disobedience among gay people now. Like, the gay equivalent of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. Prop 8 is yet another "separate but equal" and we all know how that turned out last time.*is a straight male*
mykevermin
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Fill up all the LDS churches on Sunday mornings. Show up early, fill the pews, quietly and respectfully attend their services.
Stay and eat their food afterwards.
But quietly and respectfully.
Seriously.
Stay and eat their food afterwards.
But quietly and respectfully.
Seriously.
Ikohn4ever
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[quote name='BuckFarack']When my partner Dominick (see avatar) gets his sex change next year, this whole Prop 8 fiasco won't be such a big deal.[/quote]
did u join CAG just to post in the VS. threads? Seems pretty pathetic to me. But with a clever name that is fuCk Barack oh I mean BuckFarack i shouldnt be expecting much
did u join CAG just to post in the VS. threads? Seems pretty pathetic to me. But with a clever name that is fuCk Barack oh I mean BuckFarack i shouldnt be expecting much
BuckFarack
Banned
[quote name='nathansu']That's some top notch trolling.
All : Don't feed the troll.[/quote]
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']did u join CAG just to post in the VS. threads? Seems pretty pathetic to me. But with a clever name that is fuCk Barack oh I mean BuckFarack i shouldnt be expecting much[/quote]
How dare you people make fun of my lifestyle choices!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!
I thought this was a Gay Rights forum.
I did a google search for: "Ass" "Proposition 8" "over 50 page thread" and found this place. I sincerely thought I could call this place my new home, but it looks like haven't been treated very nicely.
All : Don't feed the troll.[/quote]
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']did u join CAG just to post in the VS. threads? Seems pretty pathetic to me. But with a clever name that is fuCk Barack oh I mean BuckFarack i shouldnt be expecting much[/quote]
How dare you people make fun of my lifestyle choices!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!
I thought this was a Gay Rights forum.
I did a google search for: "Ass" "Proposition 8" "over 50 page thread" and found this place. I sincerely thought I could call this place my new home, but it looks like haven't been treated very nicely.
[quote name='BuckFarack']How dare you people make fun of my lifestyle choices!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!
I thought this was a Gay Rights forum.
I did a google search for: "Ass" "Proposition 8" "over 50 page thread" and found this place. I sincerely thought I could call this place my new home, but it looks like haven't been treated very nicely.[/quote]
lilboo you are not sir.
I thought this was a Gay Rights forum.
I did a google search for: "Ass" "Proposition 8" "over 50 page thread" and found this place. I sincerely thought I could call this place my new home, but it looks like haven't been treated very nicely.[/quote]
lilboo you are not sir.
[quote name='mykevermin']Fill up all the LDS churches on Sunday mornings. Show up early, fill the pews, quietly and respectfully attend their services.
Stay and eat their food afterwards.
But quietly and respectfully.
Seriously.[/quote]
Their heads will explode.
I wonder if they would throw people out.. if they do throw someone out for just going, quietly and respectfully, it'd reflect even more negatively on the mormon church.
Stay and eat their food afterwards.
But quietly and respectfully.
Seriously.[/quote]
Their heads will explode.
I wonder if they would throw people out.. if they do throw someone out for just going, quietly and respectfully, it'd reflect even more negatively on the mormon church.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Hex']Their heads will explode.
I wonder if they would throw people out.. if they do throw someone out for just going, quietly and respectfully, it'd reflect even more negatively on the mormon church.[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Do it Rosa Parks style.
Fill up their pews. Dress nice. Be quiet (this means leave the ball gag home, HumanSnatcher). Don't give them a reason to use force.
Let them know that you'll get out of their house when they get out of yours.
I wonder if they would throw people out.. if they do throw someone out for just going, quietly and respectfully, it'd reflect even more negatively on the mormon church.[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Do it Rosa Parks style.
Fill up their pews. Dress nice. Be quiet (this means leave the ball gag home, HumanSnatcher). Don't give them a reason to use force.
Let them know that you'll get out of their house when they get out of yours.
mykevermin
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Depends. How bad do the Californians want it?
In this day and age, people are content with supplanting good ol' protest with blogs, paypal donations, and commenting on "Free Republic" or "Daily Kos."
That ain't gonna cut it. How bad do the Californians want it?
In this day and age, people are content with supplanting good ol' protest with blogs, paypal donations, and commenting on "Free Republic" or "Daily Kos."
That ain't gonna cut it. How bad do the Californians want it?
HumanSnatcher
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[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo. Do it Rosa Parks style.
Fill up their pews. Dress nice. Be quiet (this means leave the ball gag home, HumanSnatcher). Don't give them a reason to use force.
Let them know that you'll get out of their house when they get out of yours.[/quote]
Actually the ball gag is more for my partner ;-)
Fill up their pews. Dress nice. Be quiet (this means leave the ball gag home, HumanSnatcher). Don't give them a reason to use force.
Let them know that you'll get out of their house when they get out of yours.[/quote]
Actually the ball gag is more for my partner ;-)
The Crotch
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If I lived in California, I think I would try to organize it.
pacifickarma
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[quote name='Cheese']PS - Lesbians are awesome, just thought I'd float that out there.[/QUOTE]
Actually, no they're not... It seems like a cool idea at first, but then you realize that they want nothing to do with you, and it's just two more chicks you won't be able to get with. I'm totally supportive of gay men, but down on lesbians. (Thumbs up to two men out of the dating pool, thumbs down to two women out!) Seriously, though... I voted NO on 8 and was very upset to see it pass.
Actually, no they're not... It seems like a cool idea at first, but then you realize that they want nothing to do with you, and it's just two more chicks you won't be able to get with. I'm totally supportive of gay men, but down on lesbians. (Thumbs up to two men out of the dating pool, thumbs down to two women out!) Seriously, though... I voted NO on 8 and was very upset to see it pass.
BigT
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[quote name='JJSP']There are constant gatherings in LA in protest of Prop 8. They've shut down several main streets in downtown LA (yesterday at rush hour) - nothing violent or outrageous, just some good ol' fashioned civil disobediance and protesting.[/quote]
Why didn't they organize this way before the election?
Now it's just pissing off people during rush hour!
Why didn't they organize this way before the election?
Now it's just pissing off people during rush hour!
[quote name='BigT']Why didn't they organize this way before the election?
[/QUOTE]
its true.
but its just part of the gay conspiracy. they wanted to lose, so they could take it to the us supreme court so it becomes legal for the whole nation. duh. quit throwing such a fuss.
[/QUOTE]
its true.
but its just part of the gay conspiracy. they wanted to lose, so they could take it to the us supreme court so it becomes legal for the whole nation. duh. quit throwing such a fuss.
nathansu
Banned
[quote name='Chuplayer'] There really needs to be some sort of civil disobedience among gay people now. Like, the gay equivalent of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. Prop 8 is yet another "separate but equal" and we all know how that turned out last time.
*is a straight male*[/quote]
Mini-riots have broken out in West LA, Santa Monica, Hollywood areas. Protests are going on EVERYWHERE.
There really needs to be some sort of civil disobedience among gay people now. Like, the gay equivalent of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. Prop 8 is yet another "separate but equal" and we all know how that turned out last time.*is a straight male*[/quote]
Mini-riots have broken out in West LA, Santa Monica, Hollywood areas. Protests are going on EVERYWHERE.
nathansu
Banned
[quote name='BigT']Why didn't they organize this way before the election?
Now it's just pissing off people during rush hour![/quote]
Paraphrasing an article I read when Prop 8 was approved for the ballot, one of the judges said he approved it "with confidence it's legality would be challenged if it passed".
Even the people who legally placed it on the ballot knew there would be big trouble if it passed. Get over it.
Now it's just pissing off people during rush hour![/quote]
Paraphrasing an article I read when Prop 8 was approved for the ballot, one of the judges said he approved it "with confidence it's legality would be challenged if it passed".
Even the people who legally placed it on the ballot knew there would be big trouble if it passed. Get over it.
depascal22
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What a waste of money then. Let's put a propisition up that will divide the state and have no chance of being upheld in the courts. Political theater at it's worst.
nathansu
Banned
[quote name='depascal22']What a waste of money then. Let's put a propisition up that will divide the state and have no chance of being upheld in the courts. Political theater at it's worst.[/quote]
OR, the people who decided it was a legal amendment knew it really wasn't and simply wanted the chance to raise the issue on the national stage. That's probably more likely.
Again, if this sees the supreme court I'm going to have to shake the hand of the people behind Yes on Prop 8.
OR, the people who decided it was a legal amendment knew it really wasn't and simply wanted the chance to raise the issue on the national stage. That's probably more likely.
Again, if this sees the supreme court I'm going to have to shake the hand of the people behind Yes on Prop 8.
[quote name='depascal22']What a waste of money then. Let's put a propisition up that will divide the state and have no chance of being upheld in the courts. Political theater at it's worst.[/QUOTE]
I am not happy with the lose of Gay rights.....however it is pleasing to watch Christians/Mormons squander millions and millions of dollars. And hey it provided some jobs for awhile!
I am not happy with the lose of Gay rights.....however it is pleasing to watch Christians/Mormons squander millions and millions of dollars. And hey it provided some jobs for awhile!
GuilewasNK
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To the person named BuckFarack, if they are still a member...
That name is as absurd as the BuckFush things I have seen online. If you are going to come into a grown folks discussion do it with intelligence so that people might actually listen to you, and that is regardless of the subject matter or where you stand on it.
To the matter at hand, I hope the nothing turns too violent and that things change for the gay community in their favor.
That name is as absurd as the BuckFush things I have seen online. If you are going to come into a grown folks discussion do it with intelligence so that people might actually listen to you, and that is regardless of the subject matter or where you stand on it.
To the matter at hand, I hope the nothing turns too violent and that things change for the gay community in their favor.
nathansu
Banned
[quote name='GuilewasNK']To the person named BuckFarack, if they are still a member...
That name is as absurd as the BuckFush things I have seen online. If you are going to come into a grown folks discussion do it with intelligence so that people might actually listen to you, and that is regardless of the subject matter or where you stand on it.
To the matter at hand, I hope the nothing turns too violent and that things change for the gay community in their favor.[/quote]
He's clearly just trolling, ignore him.
That name is as absurd as the BuckFush things I have seen online. If you are going to come into a grown folks discussion do it with intelligence so that people might actually listen to you, and that is regardless of the subject matter or where you stand on it.
To the matter at hand, I hope the nothing turns too violent and that things change for the gay community in their favor.[/quote]
He's clearly just trolling, ignore him.
von551
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[quote name='lilboo']RELIGION has no place in making laws.
In other words: God[/quote]
you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do. that's what's happening here. seperation of church and state, right? God's will always prevails. You will see your day when you can get married though. It's prophesied, the world is on a collision course towards God. It will fight for it's "right" to disobey His law and it will be the end of the world as we know it. This Prop 8 is just a bump in the road of what's to come.
Why is it every story I hear about gays attacking members of the church seems very hypocritical to how you want to be treated? So aggressive, towards the elderly even, beating Yes on 8 supporters, stomping on crosses at Yes on 8 events, etc. Reminds me of KKK actions, how is that proving we should allow this group of people to get more "rights"?
In other words:
God[/quote]you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do. that's what's happening here. seperation of church and state, right? God's will always prevails. You will see your day when you can get married though. It's prophesied, the world is on a collision course towards God. It will fight for it's "right" to disobey His law and it will be the end of the world as we know it. This Prop 8 is just a bump in the road of what's to come.
Why is it every story I hear about gays attacking members of the church seems very hypocritical to how you want to be treated? So aggressive, towards the elderly even, beating Yes on 8 supporters, stomping on crosses at Yes on 8 events, etc. Reminds me of KKK actions, how is that proving we should allow this group of people to get more "rights"?
The Crotch
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[quote name='von551']you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do.[/quote]Sigh. Okay, not gonna get into too much here, but where exactly is the state telling the church what it can or can't do?
[quote name='von551']God's will always prevails.[/quote]Quoting Sarah Palin is a poor way to win an argument.
NOWHERE!
Okay, maybe it is somewhere, I ain't a ing legal scholar, but on this particular issue, it sure as hell ain't
ing legal scholar, but on this particular issue, it sure as hell ain't[quote name='von551']God's will always prevails.[/quote]Quoting Sarah Palin is a poor way to win an argument.
[quote name='von551']you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do.[/quote]
The law has no right to tell the church who it can and can't deny legal rights to?
[quote name='von551']You will see your day when you can get married though. It's prophesied, the world is on a collision course towards God. It will fight for it's "right" to disobey His law and it will be the end of the world as we know it. This Prop 8 is just a bump in the road of what's to come.[/quote]
Isn't it hypocritical to try to stop the second coming?
The law has no right to tell the church who it can and can't deny legal rights to?
[quote name='von551']You will see your day when you can get married though. It's prophesied, the world is on a collision course towards God. It will fight for it's "right" to disobey His law and it will be the end of the world as we know it. This Prop 8 is just a bump in the road of what's to come.[/quote]
Isn't it hypocritical to try to stop the second coming?
The Crotch
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[quote name='SpazX']
Isn't it hypocritical to try to stop the second coming?[/quote]
Something tells me he wanted to play as the Covenant in Halo 3...
Isn't it hypocritical to try to stop the second coming?[/quote]
Something tells me he wanted to play as the Covenant in Halo 3...
[quote name='von551']you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do. that's what's happening here.[/quote]
Wait, so the church has no grounds in law? Y'all can just go around killing people if you so choose?
I knew some of you were high and mighty, but shit, man.
Wait, so the church has no grounds in law? Y'all can just go around killing people if you so choose?
I knew some of you were high and mighty, but shit, man.
[quote name='von551']you have it backwards. the law has no right to tell the church what it can and can't do. that's what's happening here. seperation of church and state, right? God's will always prevails. You will see your day when you can get married though. It's prophesied, the world is on a collision course towards God. It will fight for it's "right" to disobey His law and it will be the end of the world as we know it. This Prop 8 is just a bump in the road of what's to come.
Why is it every story I hear about gays attacking members of the church seems very hypocritical to how you want to be treated? So aggressive, towards the elderly even, beating Yes on 8 supporters, stomping on crosses at Yes on 8 events, etc. Reminds me of KKK actions, how is that proving we should allow this group of people to get more "rights"?[/QUOTE]
/yawns
We have heard the same for years and years from Christians. Anything you guys dont like you claim to be against Gods will while ignoring the dozens of other things in the bible that you dislike. Then you claim by not getting your way the world is going to end so you don't care if you don't get your way anyways. People did it with young kids listening to rock music, interracial marriage and all sorts of other crap. Realistically if the world doesn't implode on itself and its own stupidity over wars that you religious people start what will happen is we will continue to become more and more modern with religion continuing to play a smaller and smaller role. The world will become more peaceful, more interconnected and we will all have the right to do as we please as long as we dont hurt others. People like you will go from the majority to the minority in the next 50 years and within the next 100 you will hardly exist. The bible will have been right then of atleast 1 thing. We will be free of Christian ignorance.
And as I have said before. Even if there is a God and he ended the world. It kinda would just prove our points. That your God is a jealous petty God that doesnt deserve to be worshiped. I mean Jesus tap dancing Christ how can you call a God that creates people to have strong sexual desires towards the same sex but then punishes them for what he gave them a just or righteous God. He isn't he is a child that even many of us humans have surpassed.
Why is it every story I hear about gays attacking members of the church seems very hypocritical to how you want to be treated? So aggressive, towards the elderly even, beating Yes on 8 supporters, stomping on crosses at Yes on 8 events, etc. Reminds me of KKK actions, how is that proving we should allow this group of people to get more "rights"?[/QUOTE]
/yawns
We have heard the same for years and years from Christians. Anything you guys dont like you claim to be against Gods will while ignoring the dozens of other things in the bible that you dislike. Then you claim by not getting your way the world is going to end so you don't care if you don't get your way anyways. People did it with young kids listening to rock music, interracial marriage and all sorts of other crap. Realistically if the world doesn't implode on itself and its own stupidity over wars that you religious people start what will happen is we will continue to become more and more modern with religion continuing to play a smaller and smaller role. The world will become more peaceful, more interconnected and we will all have the right to do as we please as long as we dont hurt others. People like you will go from the majority to the minority in the next 50 years and within the next 100 you will hardly exist. The bible will have been right then of atleast 1 thing. We will be free of Christian ignorance.
And as I have said before. Even if there is a God and he ended the world. It kinda would just prove our points. That your God is a jealous petty God that doesnt deserve to be worshiped. I mean Jesus tap dancing Christ how can you call a God that creates people to have strong sexual desires towards the same sex but then punishes them for what he gave them a just or righteous God. He isn't he is a child that even many of us humans have surpassed.
[quote name='MSI Magus'] The bible will have been right then of atleast 1 thing. We will be free of Christian ignorance.[/quote]
You need to watch more South Park.
In essence, ignorance will always exist. It's a part of mankind. Pretending that religion is the only source is just naive.
You know I've kept quiet on the religious premises for the most part in this forum, but I gotta say that you have a completely twisted and ignorant understanding of religion, as it rises to little more than "I hates religion, I hates religious nutjobs, yar yar yar and a bottle and rum." I'm not going to debate a lot of the things you've said, but your understanding of it is at least as incorrect as you so like to call out their understanding of your position.
Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point - you need to do some damn research on the matter before you spout off all this rhetoric.
You need to watch more South Park.
In essence, ignorance will always exist. It's a part of mankind. Pretending that religion is the only source is just naive.
You know I've kept quiet on the religious premises for the most part in this forum, but I gotta say that you have a completely twisted and ignorant understanding of religion, as it rises to little more than "I hates religion, I hates religious nutjobs, yar yar yar and a bottle and rum." I'm not going to debate a lot of the things you've said, but your understanding of it is at least as incorrect as you so like to call out their understanding of your position.
Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point - you need to do some damn research on the matter before you spout off all this rhetoric.
[quote name='Strell']You need to watch more South Park.
In essence, ignorance will always exist. It's a part of mankind. Pretending that religion is the only source is just naive.
You know I've kept quiet on the religious premises for the most part in this forum, but I gotta say that you have a completely twisted and ignorant understanding of religion, as it rises to little more than "I hates religion, I hates religious nutjobs, yar yar yar and a bottle and rum." I'm not going to debate a lot of the things you've said, but your understanding of it is at least as incorrect as you so like to call out their understanding of your position.
Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point - you need to do some damn research on the matter before you spout off all this rhetoric.[/QUOTE]
1. Yes Ignorance will always exist, I am not saying it is just coming from Christian things. 99% of people are ignorant and refuse to see the need for change in their life. However.....I do feel Christians like to be ignorant much more often.
2. I could use more education on the subject true. However I grew up going to church with my parents in my early years, went to a Baptist school for 2 years and considered myself Christian for awhile there. I thought about becoming a minister of the Unitarian Universalism religion for a little while and even took classes on religion(not to mention my intial major in school was going to be philosophy). I know plenty on the subject.
There are religions like Buddhism which as far as I can see have not created wars and do not claim to be the be all end all of religions. I have also never meant a believer of Buddhism or certain others like Hindus which are violent or largely ignorant to their own beliefs. Christians, Muslims etc just are on a whole different level, they are either people that are very violent and act like they are in some righteous war with the world that they will ultimately loose....but God will descend and destroy us all so whats it matter. Or they are cherry picking hypocrites who pick and choose the bible they wish to believe in. Gay marriage is wrong because the bible says so.....but O forget the verse in the bible that talks about tithing its outdated! And its wrong for a man to have 3 wives.....but forget the verse that talks about beating your wife its outdated!
I would love to educate myself more on the subject. I always love reading good books on religion and I would love to go back and take some more classes(sometimes I even still think about the UU Pastor thing but decide I couldnt be objective enough to teach Christian values when the time came)but sorry strell.....I am not 1/10th as bad as most religious nuts(and thats what they are).
In essence, ignorance will always exist. It's a part of mankind. Pretending that religion is the only source is just naive.
You know I've kept quiet on the religious premises for the most part in this forum, but I gotta say that you have a completely twisted and ignorant understanding of religion, as it rises to little more than "I hates religion, I hates religious nutjobs, yar yar yar and a bottle and rum." I'm not going to debate a lot of the things you've said, but your understanding of it is at least as incorrect as you so like to call out their understanding of your position.
Whether you agree with it or not is beside the point - you need to do some damn research on the matter before you spout off all this rhetoric.[/QUOTE]
1. Yes Ignorance will always exist, I am not saying it is just coming from Christian things. 99% of people are ignorant and refuse to see the need for change in their life. However.....I do feel Christians like to be ignorant much more often.
2. I could use more education on the subject true. However I grew up going to church with my parents in my early years, went to a Baptist school for 2 years and considered myself Christian for awhile there. I thought about becoming a minister of the Unitarian Universalism religion for a little while and even took classes on religion(not to mention my intial major in school was going to be philosophy). I know plenty on the subject.
There are religions like Buddhism which as far as I can see have not created wars and do not claim to be the be all end all of religions. I have also never meant a believer of Buddhism or certain others like Hindus which are violent or largely ignorant to their own beliefs. Christians, Muslims etc just are on a whole different level, they are either people that are very violent and act like they are in some righteous war with the world that they will ultimately loose....but God will descend and destroy us all so whats it matter. Or they are cherry picking hypocrites who pick and choose the bible they wish to believe in. Gay marriage is wrong because the bible says so.....but O forget the verse in the bible that talks about tithing its outdated! And its wrong for a man to have 3 wives.....but forget the verse that talks about beating your wife its outdated!
I would love to educate myself more on the subject. I always love reading good books on religion and I would love to go back and take some more classes(sometimes I even still think about the UU Pastor thing but decide I couldnt be objective enough to teach Christian values when the time came)but sorry strell.....I am not 1/10th as bad as most religious nuts(and thats what they are).
[quote name='MSI Magus']I do feel Christians like to be ignorant much more often.[/quote]
That's anecdotal, and further, can't be proven. You can find idiots everywhere. I know what you are saying, which is a spin on "they just like to have faith and rely on it and not ask questions and IF anything contradictory shows up they say 'that's how God wanted it' or 'my faith says otherwise,'" so I get it.
Fair enough, since I don't have any information on this either, but I'm willing to bet there's some dirt somewhere. I can't prove this either way and it's based on my poor outlook on humanity in general, so I guess that's bias.
I'm going to stop you there because that's a huge comment to make that you can't back up, except for wild accusations of "that's what goes on in the Middle East, and all those people who shoot up malls because God told them to do so." You'll have a little more credit talking about the Crusades, since that's the go-to for this idea, but even then you're making a claim about billions of people, the large percentage of which do not commit a lot of murder and war.
Saying all of everyone in those groups is "very violent" is just incorrect.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd like proof on these. By which I want the actual verses and then practiced members of the church telling you that yes, indeed, we can beat our wives, oh glorious day!
Tithing is something suggested, but it's not a sin to not tithe. So that's out of the running. That's dangerously close to, say, Catholic thought, where they say things like "If you miss Sunday's sermon, yer goin' to Hayull unless you confess with a priest before you die." This is one of the reasons a lot of people have problems with Catholicism, and even turn away from it, because there's just so much that will land your ass in a lake of fire if you don't walk the tightrope with precision accuracy.
I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying this overwhelming global dismissal of all of them and a complete refusal to learn anything more IS ignorance, and it's almost identical to the sort of thing you are so mad about.
Hell, I'm not saying to go out and learn exactly. I'm saying that you shouldn't talk about things you clearly don't know anything about, especially when there's that staunch refusal to get anything more on the subject.
A while ago you said "religion has no place in society." Depending on how I want to think about that, you may or may not have a point. It says in the Bible to not let your left hand know what your right hand does, as well as to practice in your own home instead of trying to acquire glory from men by being outwardly expressive and boisterous about your religious doings. I.e., don't donate to a charity and then run around with the receipt pinned to your forehead, forcing everyone to ask about it just so you can talk about how great a person you are. So in that sense, yes, it has no place "in" society.
But to dismiss it entirely is the problem I'm getting at. To the religious, it HAS a place in society, because it helps them through their everyday lives. And that's a total lifestyle thing that those outside-looking-in can't comprehend. And it's FINE that you can't comprehend it, but you have to recognize that you can't. It's an impossible task. And thus you either learn more on the subject or you don't. That's the deal there.
A religious person has their wife die, and religion helps them get through it (unless you are Mark Twain). A religious person hears about an atheist's mom dying, and they have no clue how that person copes. It's NOT an adversarial thing - it's simply how they handle those situations, and in both cases, neither can understand how the other does it.
That's anecdotal, and further, can't be proven. You can find idiots everywhere. I know what you are saying, which is a spin on "they just like to have faith and rely on it and not ask questions and IF anything contradictory shows up they say 'that's how God wanted it' or 'my faith says otherwise,'" so I get it.
Fair enough, since I don't have any information on this either, but I'm willing to bet there's some dirt somewhere. I can't prove this either way and it's based on my poor outlook on humanity in general, so I guess that's bias.
I'm going to stop you there because that's a huge comment to make that you can't back up, except for wild accusations of "that's what goes on in the Middle East, and all those people who shoot up malls because God told them to do so." You'll have a little more credit talking about the Crusades, since that's the go-to for this idea, but even then you're making a claim about billions of people, the large percentage of which do not commit a lot of murder and war.
Saying all of everyone in those groups is "very violent" is just incorrect.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd like proof on these. By which I want the actual verses and then practiced members of the church telling you that yes, indeed, we can beat our wives, oh glorious day!
Tithing is something suggested, but it's not a sin to not tithe. So that's out of the running. That's dangerously close to, say, Catholic thought, where they say things like "If you miss Sunday's sermon, yer goin' to Hayull unless you confess with a priest before you die." This is one of the reasons a lot of people have problems with Catholicism, and even turn away from it, because there's just so much that will land your ass in a lake of fire if you don't walk the tightrope with precision accuracy.
I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying this overwhelming global dismissal of all of them and a complete refusal to learn anything more IS ignorance, and it's almost identical to the sort of thing you are so mad about.
Hell, I'm not saying to go out and learn exactly. I'm saying that you shouldn't talk about things you clearly don't know anything about, especially when there's that staunch refusal to get anything more on the subject.
A while ago you said "religion has no place in society." Depending on how I want to think about that, you may or may not have a point. It says in the Bible to not let your left hand know what your right hand does, as well as to practice in your own home instead of trying to acquire glory from men by being outwardly expressive and boisterous about your religious doings. I.e., don't donate to a charity and then run around with the receipt pinned to your forehead, forcing everyone to ask about it just so you can talk about how great a person you are. So in that sense, yes, it has no place "in" society.
But to dismiss it entirely is the problem I'm getting at. To the religious, it HAS a place in society, because it helps them through their everyday lives. And that's a total lifestyle thing that those outside-looking-in can't comprehend. And it's FINE that you can't comprehend it, but you have to recognize that you can't. It's an impossible task. And thus you either learn more on the subject or you don't. That's the deal there.
A religious person has their wife die, and religion helps them get through it (unless you are Mark Twain). A religious person hears about an atheist's mom dying, and they have no clue how that person copes. It's NOT an adversarial thing - it's simply how they handle those situations, and in both cases, neither can understand how the other does it.
Yes there are things like Muslims blowing themselves up. But then you can look as you said to the crusades, you can look to the Japanese during the world war and how they thought their emperor was God. You can look to the Christians and the lions, you can look to people who bomb abortion clinics or hell just put their kids in front of abortion clinics with horrid signs. You can look to the Irish Catholic/Protestant wars. Hell you can even just look to this board where we see the reason why I say Christians in general not just a handful. Because these wars of the past and stuff like what I have named in some cases were a hand full of stupid people or were in the past. However just at this board we have seen numerous Chrstians like von come in and say that they are essentially at war with us and when they loose the war their God is going to end the world and torture the non believers for eternity. Strell......when millions hold the belief that their god will send us to a lake of fire for all eternity just for not believing.....how can you not say that religion is violent.
You in the other quote ask for proof.......again just look at the posts here. I have had no less then 3 people on this damn board tell me now that I will burn or that God will destroy us all. Von did it just a few posts above. Christ visit any baptist church....its 90% of what they talk about.
Finally you say that its not your saying im ignorant.....but you just then follow it up saying dont talk about stuff I know nothing about. Again I have read plenty, was Chrsitian myself, went to alot of church including a school were I had to attend church 3 times a week etc etc. Where as you yourself seem to be missing that people in this topic are saying the stuff you say I am ignorant for claiming they say. Look around man...as I have said just look through this topic.
Sorry if my grammar was worse then even usual, was typing this extreamly fast since my fiancee just showed up sick from work and is sitting and staring over my shoulder.....very uncomfortable and ANNOYING!
FloodsAreUponUS
Banned
[quote name='von551']God's will always prevails.
[/quote]
This is how you lose an argument, and that has to be a joke post.
[/quote]
This is how you lose an argument, and that has to be a joke post.
[quote name='MSI Magus']But then you can look as you said to the crusades, you can look to the Japanese during the world war and how they thought their emperor was God. [/quote]
Who aren't Christians or Muslims. In fact, last I checked, the Japanese were largely polytheistic.
Further, it's shown that in both sides of war, usually each side thinks they are divinely led. The American Civil War is a good example.
Make up your mind if you're railing against them or religious people in general.
All I know about Christians and lions is that the former was fed to the latter.
You're veering waaaaaaaay off course by including all the crazy people who represent 0.0000000001% of any group.
I don't know what this is - I'd have to research.
First off, there's little to no outwardly expressed Christians 'round here.
Second, the 'net at large is completely inhospitable to Christians, as this board does a good job upholding. So to act like there's some conspiracy out there where they are running around on the 'net trying to ruin it is laughable. They aren't, they aren't welcome around here. You can look to pretty much any forum in the world and you'll find that they aren't having a good time being accepted. And if you ever run across a Christian board, I'm sure it's being bombarded with flames and DoS attacks pretty regularly, especially if someone decides they want to ignite an anti-holy war on 'em.
Third, you are still generalizing. You claim that you aren't because you've got some outspoken members talking out against you. But this goes hand in hand with the whole inability-to-comprehend thing, as well as the idea that you're woefully unprepared to deal with them. This falls into the realm of anecdotal evidence - if I brought some members in here who aren't as mean-spirited as their fellow Christians, do I offset them and thus cancel everything out?
So? There's plenty of wars started by not religious means. World Wars, for example. Throwing up a few examples only marginally helps your side since there's still a huge contingent of bloodshed that are started out of imperialism, hatred, misunderstanding, border disputes, or just plain boredom.
You don't help yourself when you readily confuse "lose" and "loose." Just a side note there.
This again shows ignorance. Christians don't think God is going to punish people for eternity - they think Satan will. Or, more accurately, that they'll go to Hell, which is a place of eternal damnation and suffering. But that's not God's doing. Again, you don't have to believe this, but you do have to understand you are saying incorrect things.
Most Christians also don't think they are at war with the world. They think the world is secular and is not their true calling/true conclusion/true home. Most of them are quite happy to live their lives quietly - have a job, go to church, pray, repeat. And really, most of them simply accept an idea that at some point in the future, their savior will indeed come down to finish an holy war started millenia ago - not start it. There's a huge difference in that subtly.
The big difference is that you either have faith in this idea or you don't. Christians choose to have faith in it and decide that they should live their lives according to it. You clearly don't so you don't have to. Christians tend to want to frame this as a "you are lost, why don't you come into the fold?" sort of thing, which pisses you off because it implies a sort of "you're an idiot and I'm not because my book tells me so."
But that's not the same as acting like they are violently trying to create war all the time. You're talking about the fringe crazies that have hijacked the popular conception in the last few years, and the isolated incidences that came out of the dark ages. I'm not saying that helps their image, but you're concentrating on a vastly tiny minority and holding it as an overgeneralized veneer.
Wait a minute. So on the one hand you say you don't believe in Hell/God/Satan/etc, but then you're afraid of it? That's playing both sides of the coin. You need to make up your mind.
Further, again, this is not a "God is sending you to Hell" thing. Christian belief says you make that choice yourself, since they believe we are born with evil natures that want to defy a holy path. You've got the instruction manual, and it's your choice to go by it or not. You don't? Then yes - next stop Hell after death.
Even further, this is all clearly an after-life thing. Post. Life. So all these examples you could bring up about violence here and now has absolutely zero to do with something that occurs after death.
This is bullshit and you know it.
Then they should know they are sinning. Christians readily accept that the one true judge of all nature is God, and that humans judging others is a sin. I actually get annoyed when I hear people claiming that anyone is going to hell, or that anyone is going to heaven, because they have no say in the matter, and really have no grasp on the reasons for one conclusion or the other.
So really what you should do is just ignore it because you already don't believe in Hell, you already think all Christians are nuts, and because you could always tell them that men are not to judge other men, as this is sinful nature by definition.
And yet you choose to do none of those things and just argue for the sake of arguing.
Yes. I'm sorry but if you find fault between those two postulates then you need to look up a lot of things.
Sorry, but you are saying incredibly ignorant things, so you either don't remember anything from your early days or you've chosen to say incorrect things here.
Heh.
Who aren't Christians or Muslims. In fact, last I checked, the Japanese were largely polytheistic.
Further, it's shown that in both sides of war, usually each side thinks they are divinely led. The American Civil War is a good example.
Make up your mind if you're railing against them or religious people in general.
All I know about Christians and lions is that the former was fed to the latter.
You're veering waaaaaaaay off course by including all the crazy people who represent 0.0000000001% of any group.
I don't know what this is - I'd have to research.
First off, there's little to no outwardly expressed Christians 'round here.
Second, the 'net at large is completely inhospitable to Christians, as this board does a good job upholding. So to act like there's some conspiracy out there where they are running around on the 'net trying to ruin it is laughable. They aren't, they aren't welcome around here. You can look to pretty much any forum in the world and you'll find that they aren't having a good time being accepted. And if you ever run across a Christian board, I'm sure it's being bombarded with flames and DoS attacks pretty regularly, especially if someone decides they want to ignite an anti-holy war on 'em.
Third, you are still generalizing. You claim that you aren't because you've got some outspoken members talking out against you. But this goes hand in hand with the whole inability-to-comprehend thing, as well as the idea that you're woefully unprepared to deal with them. This falls into the realm of anecdotal evidence - if I brought some members in here who aren't as mean-spirited as their fellow Christians, do I offset them and thus cancel everything out?
So? There's plenty of wars started by not religious means. World Wars, for example. Throwing up a few examples only marginally helps your side since there's still a huge contingent of bloodshed that are started out of imperialism, hatred, misunderstanding, border disputes, or just plain boredom.
You don't help yourself when you readily confuse "lose" and "loose." Just a side note there.
This again shows ignorance. Christians don't think God is going to punish people for eternity - they think Satan will. Or, more accurately, that they'll go to Hell, which is a place of eternal damnation and suffering. But that's not God's doing. Again, you don't have to believe this, but you do have to understand you are saying incorrect things.
Most Christians also don't think they are at war with the world. They think the world is secular and is not their true calling/true conclusion/true home. Most of them are quite happy to live their lives quietly - have a job, go to church, pray, repeat. And really, most of them simply accept an idea that at some point in the future, their savior will indeed come down to finish an holy war started millenia ago - not start it. There's a huge difference in that subtly.
The big difference is that you either have faith in this idea or you don't. Christians choose to have faith in it and decide that they should live their lives according to it. You clearly don't so you don't have to. Christians tend to want to frame this as a "you are lost, why don't you come into the fold?" sort of thing, which pisses you off because it implies a sort of "you're an idiot and I'm not because my book tells me so."
But that's not the same as acting like they are violently trying to create war all the time. You're talking about the fringe crazies that have hijacked the popular conception in the last few years, and the isolated incidences that came out of the dark ages. I'm not saying that helps their image, but you're concentrating on a vastly tiny minority and holding it as an overgeneralized veneer.
Wait a minute. So on the one hand you say you don't believe in Hell/God/Satan/etc, but then you're afraid of it? That's playing both sides of the coin. You need to make up your mind.
Further, again, this is not a "God is sending you to Hell" thing. Christian belief says you make that choice yourself, since they believe we are born with evil natures that want to defy a holy path. You've got the instruction manual, and it's your choice to go by it or not. You don't? Then yes - next stop Hell after death.
Even further, this is all clearly an after-life thing. Post. Life. So all these examples you could bring up about violence here and now has absolutely zero to do with something that occurs after death.
This is bullshit and you know it.
Then they should know they are sinning. Christians readily accept that the one true judge of all nature is God, and that humans judging others is a sin. I actually get annoyed when I hear people claiming that anyone is going to hell, or that anyone is going to heaven, because they have no say in the matter, and really have no grasp on the reasons for one conclusion or the other.
So really what you should do is just ignore it because you already don't believe in Hell, you already think all Christians are nuts, and because you could always tell them that men are not to judge other men, as this is sinful nature by definition.
And yet you choose to do none of those things and just argue for the sake of arguing.
Yes. I'm sorry but if you find fault between those two postulates then you need to look up a lot of things.
Sorry, but you are saying incredibly ignorant things, so you either don't remember anything from your early days or you've chosen to say incorrect things here.
Heh.
bread's done