PS2/PS3 E3 Game Announcement Thread

I posted this in the Killzone thread as well but i recently stumbled upon, in the Gamespot Forums, a message, to qoute

[quote name='Mikemil828']Credit goes out to Kratos_ on this one

I'm not sure how he/she found it by there is a VERY small pop-up in the footage (Basically it's like the pop-ups that happen intermittently on Halo 2, except on smaller scale)
killzonerealtime3hu.jpg

If it was prerendered it should not have popped up like that[/QUOTE]

Though i believe it was confirmed to be not prerendered, but neither ingame.
 
I don't understand what those arrows are pointing at. I see that there is a small difference in the two frames, but I would expect a difference from one frame to the next.
 
[quote name='Backlash']I don't understand what those arrows are pointing at. I see that there is a small difference in the two frames, but I would expect a difference from one frame to the next.[/QUOTE]
...but not from a pre-rendering
 
The type of pop he's refering to is similar to when a character or his shadow shadow dissapears under the ground due to a polygon shift at a distance. Later in the video after the landing, under the bridge some of the enemy dont have ground shadows either, but it's questionable whether the shadow just seems to dissapear in this pic because of the artifacting in the video compression, the missing shadow I refer to might also just be a trick of light.

I think the whole KZ2 question needs to just go away for now untill we see something new on it then we can either curse Sony to hell or dance around the spot where you plan to place your future PS3.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']Weren't games for the "next gen" systems supposed to be cheaper because they were going to abandon expensive cartridges and move instead to cheap CD's?[/QUOTE]

I think the cheapness of cd's (vs cartridges) was offset by the higher production costs of next-gen games.

Of course, it might have just been part of the prelaunch hype surrounding the original PS and Saturn and etc.

Now that I think about it, companies charge the same price for the blue-bottomed games (cd) as the silver-bottomed games (dvd) even though cds are cheaper to print. I guess it was just something concocted by the advertising department to appeal to more people.
 
[quote name='punqsux']2)what the hell is your second paragraph even about?! both ps2 and xbox are front loading systems, used market? are you drunk or something?[/QUOTE]

If I interpreted his garbled message correctly I don't think he meant front loading like the current gen. where a tray slides out. Picture cd players in cars where you just slide the disc in and the system takes it from you. His fear being that when the disc ejects it only comes out half way and a ton of people grab cds by placing their fingers on the bottom not realizing that should be avoided.

epobirs however has already mentioned the caddy system so I won't point that out. However with Xbox 360 (and Revolution?) using standard DVDs I'm still waiting on this stuff to become commonplace:

TDK Develops Super Disc Coating

EDIT: damned double negatives...
 
[quote name='Alpha2']The type of pop he's refering to is similar to when a character or his shadow shadow dissapears under the ground due to a polygon shift at a distance. Later in the video after the landing, under the bridge some of the enemy dont have ground shadows either, but it's questionable whether the shadow just seems to dissapear in this pic because of the artifacting in the video compression, the missing shadow I refer to might also just be a trick of light.

I think the whole KZ2 question needs to just go away for now untill we see something new on it then we can either curse Sony to hell or dance around the spot where you plan to place your future PS3.[/QUOTE]

The explanation offered in interviews is that it was recorded video but of a system rendering to the specifications of the PS3. So while it may have taken hours to produce a minute of that material, the quality and flaws both are intended to reflect the realtime performance of the final product.

This, of course, supposes a best case scenario in which there is no obstacle preventing the full benchmark performance from being applied in a realworld application. The final result will probably be a bit less stunning but fairly close. It is within reason. I'm more concerned about the manufacturability of the platform. Sony has already ceded one of the Cell's SPEs for the sake of yields but it remains for the Bvidia chip to be reliably produced and not demand so much power as to demand either a very expensive cooling solution or a noisy one. Such issues have been plaguing Nvidia since their first DX9 class products.
 
This is one of the reasons I expected the estimated 450 price tag thats going around right now. The level of the hardware they have in this thing probably will take a lot of precaution to keep it from literally melting down in your entertainment center.

I'd rather see sony have a low manufacture rate on these than try to push 2 million of them out the door and have the GPU explode when you put a disk in.
 
I love it when Hardcore gamer opinions actually matter:

"Well, that didn't take long. Only a few days after unveiling its next-generation console's jaw-dropping graphical abilities (gamers: "Hooray!") and its oddly boomeranglike controller (gamers: "Huh?"), Sony appears to be having second thoughts on the design of the heir to the highly popular (and decently ergonomic) Dual Shock II. Engadget reports that, during a backstage visit with the PS3, Sony reps hedged their bets by downplaying the curvy, new gamepad as a "conceptual design." Sony executives will now symbolically throw the failed boomerang controllers out of their office windows, then helplessly watch as they fly right back in again."
 
You know they make that thing a little bit wider, with a couple of really powerful FF motors inside and you've got the makings of a a great cyber-sex toy for your lady..and her best girlfriend :)
 
I dunno guys, the PS3 raises more questions than excitement for me:

1. What do you fit in 50 gigs? 10000 hour rpgs? How much does a blank 50 gig disc cost? Is this overkill in an attempt to make a more powerful system?

2. First gen peripherals for new formats are always extremely expensive...then to add a cracked out game console to it...it's seems impossible to release this system and it's software at a competitive price. Somethings gotta give and I imagine the system specs are being a bit overplayed right now.

3. Does anyone besides .00001 % of audio/videophiles really care to switch to HD standard media? Even a vhs tape played on 480p would look crystal clear to the average human eye.

4. Will non-exclusive 3rd party people give a crap about blu-ray? What would stop them from just ignoring it completely and putting a game on a DVD like they will for the other 2 systems. I'd hate to see the power of the system only shine in a few exclusives and 1st party games.

that's all.
 
[quote name='Apossum']I dunno guys, the PS3 raises more questions than excitement for me:

1. What do you fit in 50 gigs? 10000 hour rpgs? How much does a blank 50 gig disc cost? Is this overkill in an attempt to make a more powerful system?
[/QUOTE]

I'm going to agree with you on this one here, you bring up a very good point.
High Definition gaming isn't the same as a High Definition Movie, its doesn't require all that bandwidth or storage space. The only advantage BluRay will be in a PS3 is as a HD Blue Ray movie player, not as any kind of gaming benefit. Its bad enough we wait 4 years for a game you can complete in 6 hours, I doubt we'll see developers releasing FPS's with 100 unique levels anytime soon, just because there's space for it. I mean in our age of dual-layer DVD',s how many Sony PS2 games have ever had to come on 1 (meaning the info took up more than 4.3 gigs)

2. First gen peripherals for new formats are always extremely expensive...then to add a cracked out game console to it...it's seems impossible to release this system and it's software at a competitive price. Somethings gotta give and I imagine the system specs are being a bit overplayed right now.
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Not if you consider that hardware manufacturers always lose money on the hardware, and make it up on the licensing fees and accessorys and components. $30 bucks for a spare joypad? $60+ games? Thats all licensing fees helping to offset the cost.

3. Does anyone besides .00001 % of audio/videophiles really care to switch to HD standard media? Even a vhs tape played on 480p would look crystal clear to the average human eye.
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Ok here, you're clearly on the pipe my friend. VHS tape looks like crap even on analog TV's. VHS has like 240 lines of horizontal resolution, there is no progressive VHS signal.

I, personally, being somewhat into the home-theatre hobby, know that HD-DVD is going to go over like a lead balloon. Its going to be like Laserdisc. 80% of people wont bother with it, because even on a 40 or 50" Set (the biggest most people would even consider owning) you can only tell the difference between a good DVD and a true High Def source if you're accustomed to seeing it. If you show a DVD to the average person on a good TV, and then show them a HD signal, they wont necessarily be able to tell the difference. "That one is a bit sharper I think" is about as big as the "ooomph" factor usually is.

Where HD will really pay off is for people with 100" projectors...because at 100 inches diagonal or larger, even DVD starts to look a little soft. Like Cable or VHS does when you take it any larger than 27 inches.

4. Will non-exclusive 3rd party people give a crap about blu-ray? What would stop them from just ignoring it completely and putting a game on a DVD like they will for the other 2 systems. I'd hate to see the power of the system only shine in a few exclusives and 1st party games.
that's all.
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I think you're right on this here too though.....why go through the hoops of putting out your game on a propritary media that wont ever use the features.
 
Ok here, you're clearly on the pipe my friend. VHS tape looks like crap even on analog TV's. VHS has like 240 lines of horizontal resolution, there is no progressive VHS signal.
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True that, but you got my point :) No one's eyes are gonna bleed if they watch a movie on non-HD standard media versus Blu-Ray of HD-DVD
 
[quote name='Apossum']I dunno guys, the PS3 raises more questions than excitement for me:

1. What do you fit in 50 gigs? 10000 hour rpgs? How much does a blank 50 gig disc cost? Is this overkill in an attempt to make a more powerful system?

2. First gen peripherals for new formats are always extremely expensive...then to add a cracked out game console to it...it's seems impossible to release this system and it's software at a competitive price. Somethings gotta give and I imagine the system specs are being a bit overplayed right now.

3. Does anyone besides .00001 % of audio/videophiles really care to switch to HD standard media? Even a vhs tape played on 480p would look crystal clear to the average human eye.

4. Will non-exclusive 3rd party people give a crap about blu-ray? What would stop them from just ignoring it completely and putting a game on a DVD like they will for the other 2 systems. I'd hate to see the power of the system only shine in a few exclusives and 1st party games.

that's all.[/QUOTE]

1. Depends on the codec and the volume of FMV you wish to use, plus DVD-ish extras like development doucumentaries. If you're rendering your FMV to 1080i as the master source. In MPEG-2 that can eat up the gigs fairly well. More advanced codecs like H.264 or VC-1 can give you a lot more mileage but still allow a bestselling game like FFX to easily overrun a DVD if using that quality level.

Just like current DVD use, the game comes even close to filling the disc will be rare but unlike old ROM carts, after the first megabyte it's all free. The cost of the disc doesn't go up no matter how much or little you fill.

2. Too many unknown variables there. The closest we have to a price on any of it is speculation. It's Sony's problem to make this product accessable to a large audience. Notably, they don't seem to be in any hurry to cut the PStwo price, which makes life easier for Microsoft as they try to sell the manufacturing runs of Xbox without taking a bigger cost hit.

3. I don't consider myself an AV snob at all but neither am I blind. After becoming accustomed to DVD watching stuff on VHS is annoying. Like watching a brand new TV series with high production investment on a 35 year old screen. I've seen enough good HDTV demos to know the difference can be pretty striking after you stop accepting what you've trained to tolerate.

This problem is everywhere. People designing HD cameras are told their product sucks because the result doesn't look like film, even though that output is actually far closer to human vision. People are trained by a lifetime of viewing to expect the distortions of film and at first reject reproduction that is closer to reality. So the engineers end up putting filter routines in their encoder to create film-like artifacts. THere are even software package out there that let let you specify what kind of film you wish to duplicate in appearance.

Pushing DVD in the Japanese PS2 was extremely helpful to getting that machine into the #1 slot and wiping Sega from the hardware business. And when you consider the 6+ GB of GT4, that storage did prove pretty handy compared to switching out CDs. Sony really wants to complete the equation that drives HDTV farthr into the mainstream and gives Sony continued supremacy in console in the process. It is up to them to make the value proposition work in consumer's eyes.

4. It isn't up to them. Console manuafacturers control the production of software, which is the point where the royalties are collected. If you have a PS3 game, it is going to appear on the disc format Sony specifies or not at all. Sony knows that cost issues can drive away publishers. The PS1 got started primarily on better pricing and service to publishers and retailers. Initially the cost per disc for Blu-ray discs will be a bit higher than DVD and HD-DVD but not enough to make consumers notice. We're talking nickels and dimes. It matter to a publisher ordering millions of units but no more than the cost of having a second DVD in a package because they had a lot of 1080i FMV to show off.

By the time the PS3 launches in the US the HD content playback issue should be a lot clearer. We're talking close to a year. A lot will happen in that battle between now and the end of this year. The worst that might happen is Sony experiences manufacturing delays to deal with any changes in the final chosen format. (Microsoft rubs hands together and laughs maniacally.) They're going to be very intent on not having the first million PS3s become white elephants with an unsupported drive mechanism. A class action suit resulting from that would be ugly and even a replacement program to avoid that would be expensive. I wouldn't worry about it until the product is nearing release and the format wars are still unresolved.
 
Putting your game on Blu Ray shouldnt technically take any bigger hurdle than putting it on DVD aside from the price of the materials and it's not as if Sega themselves have to have their own factory to produce the stuff. Manufacturing of games and labels and such are supposed to be handled by the same sources other publishers are using for the same system to maintain packaging cohesion. a 50 gig game will likely feature more video footage but then again it's not like games always took up all 700mb of a CD, not every game is 9gb either. But if they really do come up with more complex AI or physics for games the coding would likely take up more space too.

The problem with all this HDTV nonsense is that Networks are pushing the wide screen HD standard to take over from the regular TV standard. And I think all media companies are scrambling to not be the last to get on the band wagon and profit from the fear that soon you'll have to have a new tv to get the benefit of and take advantage of what the networks are showing.
 
[quote name='Apossum']True that, but you got my point :) No one's eyes are gonna bleed if they watch a movie on non-HD standard media versus Blu-Ray of HD-DVD[/QUOTE]

Yep
 
Actually something to remember here, and its a common misconception:
The Forced Change to DIGITAL broadcasting does not equal a change to Widescreen HD broadcasting.

Just because all the stations have to go digital by 200X, doesn't mean they have to start broadcasting in widescreen and shoot their stuff in HD resolution...although that will be the normal progression over time.

People with 4:3 TV's are just going to have to get used to letterboxing, something they are already doing if they buy or rent DVD's as many, if not most, are widescreen only...only the big blockbusters will usually ship with a 4:3 version available.
 
It dosent matter that they dont have to, they're DOING it now. I think in the last couple of years I've seen like 5 or 6 shows (probably more) switch to widescreen already. yeah we get used to the letter boxing but it's only a matter of time before the HiDef tv owners start raggin on their friends for not having a TV that can play the picture without letter boxing.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']Putting your game on Blu Ray shouldnt technically take any bigger hurdle than putting it on DVD aside from the price of the materials and it's not as if Sega themselves have to have their own factory to produce the stuff. Manufacturing of games and labels and such are supposed to be handled by the same sources other publishers are using for the same system to maintain packaging cohesion. a 50 gig game will likely feature more video footage but then again it's not like games always took up all 700mb of a CD, not every game is 9gb either. But if they really do come up with more complex AI or physics for games the coding would likely take up more space too.

The problem with all this HDTV nonsense is that Networks are pushing the wide screen HD standard to take over from the regular TV standard. And I think all media companies are scrambling to not be the last to get on the band wagon and profit from the fear that soon you'll have to have a new tv to get the benefit of and take advantage of what the networks are showing.[/QUOTE]

Code volume would have to increase by a couple orders of magnitude it became more than a trivial use of disc space compared to graphic and audio data. I cannot imagine any plausible circumstance for that happening unless text adventures make a comeback at a fantastic level of complexity.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']It dosent matter that they dont have to, they're DOING it now. I think in the last couple of years I've seen like 5 or 6 shows (probably more) switch to widescreen already. yeah we get used to the letter boxing but it's only a matter of time before the HiDef tv owners start raggin on their friends for not having a TV that can play the picture without letter boxing.[/QUOTE]

The TV on DVD market is a huge driver for that aside from the looming HD future. Once it became apparent that this would be so lucrative the number of shows in widescreen multiplied rapidly. The first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was on a much lower budget to start and that meant shooting 4:3 as it makes for cheaper sets and other savings. It was a mid-season replacement which is why that first season is short, 13 epeisodes IIRC.

The show got a DVD release in Europe years before the US season sets were released and they did very well. (My first time in Amsterdam I was amazed how many shows were on disc but OTOH that was the sole way to see them there.) After that the budget got a big boost to accommodate that growing market.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']Actually something to remember here, and its a common misconception:
The Forced Change to DIGITAL broadcasting does not equal a change to Widescreen HD broadcasting.

Just because all the stations have to go digital by 200X, doesn't mean they have to start broadcasting in widescreen and shoot their stuff in HD resolution...although that will be the normal progression over time.

People with 4:3 TV's are just going to have to get used to letterboxing, something they are already doing if they buy or rent DVD's as many, if not most, are widescreen only...only the big blockbusters will usually ship with a 4:3 version available.[/QUOTE]

Widescreen production is optional but for anything other than traditional three-camera sitcoms you'd have to be insane to not shoot widescreen with the eventual DVD release in mind.

If you aren't shooting on film then shooting on HD Cams is becoming critical to the work's longterm value and in many cases has crosed the line in becoming more cost effective than film while offering higher quality than D1 image capture. A lot of effects heavy shows find it especially important. For instance, on Star Trek: The Next Generation, the filmed scenes were converted to D1 and the digital effects like phaser shots added. A lot of those effect can look pretty bad when the time comes to sell those shows for HD broadcast and disc. Newer shows like Enterprise render CGI and insert digital effects at 1080 line resoultion. Those shows will hold up a lot better over time, especially when viewed on a big screen.
 
the digital transition is dead if the consumer doesn't have any incentive to upgrade.

The incentive is HDTV..and HDTV spec mandates 16:9..
 
I was under the assumption that the last game that made up the collection we were supposed to get hadn't been completed in japan yet.
 
Help me put this into perspective:

NES/Genesis: 8 bit
Super NES: 16bit
Playstation: 32bit
N64: 64bit
PS2/gamecube/xbox: 128bit
PS3/x360/revolution: ???
 
[quote name='kingtz']Help me put this into perspective:

NES/Genesis: 8 bit
Super NES: 16bit
Playstation: 32bit
N64: 64bit
PS2/gamecube/xbox: 128bit
PS3/x360/revolution: ???[/QUOTE]

Actually PS2 is th eonly current gen system that is 128 bit. Gamecube is 64 bit and Xbox is 32 bit. Not that this kind of stuff matters anymore. We're at the point where there are so many chips and whatnot inside these things that bits have become meaningless in terms of power or comparison.
 
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