PSNOT 2.0 - I kind of want to subscribe to IndieBox.
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Thermopyle
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cireone
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Thanks for posting the scores, Farsight is very cool for making the pinball arcade, but very dumb for not fixing the leaderboards on the ps4 so i can actually see the scores of people on my friends list. Nice scores Chewy!I guess I did alright.
I thought it was in terms of quality--specifically load times and framerate drops--but now that I've looked into it a bit more, it appears that there was a patch released in Japan after release to address those, so maybe it's not as notable a difference as I thought.
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Yeah you need a signature when 3 day FedEx is used. Well at least it made it to you and you can get addicted to this game. Hopefully it pulls you away from the pinball tournament.
handsomepete
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oh thanks cireone, I forgot to tell chewy to 
off for his passive-aggressive-baseball-watching-white-sneaker-wearing-old-man-kililng-us-all pinball scores.
off for his passive-aggressive-baseball-watching-white-sneaker-wearing-old-man-kililng-us-all pinball scores.
handsomepete
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I wish I had some oreos right now
Hopefully IA/VT Colorful will distract him from the tournament.oh thanks cireone, I forgot to tell chewy to
tylerh1701
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N++ isn't selling all that well. Needs to sell about 5x what it's sold now on PS4 to break even. Devs are disappointed that a lot of major sites (IGN/Polygon/Kotaku) didn't review the game.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175815216&postcount=819
Good conversation further on in that thread. Some people questioning the $20 price point for a flash-looking indie platformer (I don't disagree) and the Zeboyd Games guy saying they got some pretty decent press for an indie (Gamespot and Game Informer both reviewed it)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175815216&postcount=819
Good conversation further on in that thread. Some people questioning the $20 price point for a flash-looking indie platformer (I don't disagree) and the Zeboyd Games guy saying they got some pretty decent press for an indie (Gamespot and Game Informer both reviewed it)
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Only if they're the Rice Crispy Oreos.
madchemist76
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Probably still wouldn't have helped this past Sunday.In non gaming news that you will all care about, Chelsea signed Pedro!
The PS4 not having friend leaderboards was the main reason I didn't purchase the tables til recently. Farsight needs to fix this because the PS4 version looks great.
handsomepete
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that sucks. it sounds like something I'd really get addicted to and would loathe but enjoy (speaking of which apparently velocity 2x just dropped on x1 this week). I think I've just had my fill of that sort of game. also, I don't think I could stand doing that 'just one more' stuff on ps4 - vita or bust.
I also assumed it was a PC port but today I learned that it's a sequel to N+ and was first released on ps4 with the potential of being ported elsewhere if it sold well.
The metacritic score is real decent and it looks like it was reviewed by other big name sites. Maybe having it on kotaku and polygon would've got them closer to their sales goal, but sounds like they're so far back from that goal that nothing would've helped except maybe putting a big ol pair of titties on the loading screens.
PancakesAreLove
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They now have S'moreos. It is delicious.
Also you are
ing ridiculous with those afk online trophies.When Stotch was streaming N++ the developer said they were doing free updates to add more DLC to the game. That was a nice surprise but can only wait and see if it really happens. They also mentioned this was most likely their last game in the series.
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tylerh1701
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Man, the conversation isn't good, it's GREAT!
If you care at all about indie devs and/or financial stuff involving games, you should just read on for a while from the link I posted. I might pull out some of the better stuff I come across. It's unfortunate, but the dev is a bit delusional about how amazing his game is.
$30!??!?!?!? That's
ing insane for a flash-looking platformer.
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handsomepete
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you will never see me contradict this. boosting is dopey, self boosting is dopier, afk self boosting isAlso you are
ing ridiculous. but I yam what I yam.
Thermopyle
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I do like precision platformers but it just doesn't look like $20 to me. I wouldn't pay that much for SMB or Bleed, either. Precision platformers are great but they're extremely frustrating and so I always want to go cheap because I expect the games to fall on the wrong side of the fun/frustration line.
Thermopyle
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Dammit cag!
BTW I also thought N++ was just a port. Had no idea it was a sequel and looking at it I don't see at all why it's not on Vita.
BTW I also thought N++ was just a port. Had no idea it was a sequel and looking at it I don't see at all why it's not on Vita.
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tylerh1701
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I also don't see the phrase "It has 2200 levels!" as something that would excite me in the least. To me it sounds like torture. I really don't want to play 2200 levels in basically any game ever.
Maybe launch the game for $10 with 600-800 levels and start adding the rest as DLC for those that truly enjoy the game? Basically telling me a game has 2200 levels is telling me that I'll never beat it, and that's not something positive to be telling people.
Maybe launch the game for $10 with 600-800 levels and start adding the rest as DLC for those that truly enjoy the game? Basically telling me a game has 2200 levels is telling me that I'll never beat it, and that's not something positive to be telling people.
Thermopyle
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Gotta give them credit for a real trophy list, even though one of the trophies is for dying 5000 times. :bow:
GamingGator
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I think the more interesting stuff was definitely further in the thread about the pricing. The dev really comes off as, "Well we put all this work in it, it is awesome, so of course it should sell at $20!"
I am sorry, but no. That is not the way it works. I know we are not the norm when it comes to hardcore gamers and how much they are willing to spend, but regardless of what you want to be the case indie games can RARELY sell well enough with that kind of price tag. Even the ones that seem to get the most marketing are $14.99 it seems. You can't talk about how you didnt market it but yet it cost so much to make. Maybe the licensed sound track was a stupid idea if it cost you so much.
handsomepete
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man you guys ing get it
ing get itThe $20 price point was definitely the main drawback for me. If it had launched for $15 with a 20% Plus discount, I would have bought it, but now I'll just wait for a sale.
GamingGator
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Jesus, I have to stop reading it. All I can think of is this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U
Thanks for posting. Yeah, indie developers are getting way too comfortable with the $20 price point, so I kind of hope this backfires for some of them (though I'll admit to buying a few games anyway at that price, often with some level of regret). It's easy for me to bite on $10 games and think about it being the equivalent of going out to lunch. I'm much more frugal at the $20 price point.
I kind of feel like being apart of the PS Play promotion hurt them, at least for some of us more informed consumers. With 100% of last year's games going free for Plus, it's no surprise that a lot of people held off. For me, I would have bought Galak-Z and maybe Rapture if the 20% discount was available the week of release (not just a pre order discount). I'm not going to drop $16 without at least a few reviews confirming the game is not total dogshit.
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handsomepete
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it's probably hard to avoid that trap where you create something and put a lot of work and love in to it and then have to assign a monetary value to it - I don't know how you couldn't think that it's worth more than it is.
GamingGator
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I am sure that is difficult. However, you would think most people would realize their mistake instead of doubling down on the mistake by talking about how it should have even cost more because of A, B, and C in an open forum like that.
I understand why they didn't do any marketing, it seems like they are best at doing it poorly.
tylerh1701
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Yeah, it's insane that devs are pricing their games basically solely on how much effort they put into it and how "good" they think it is.
Common business sense would suggest trying to determine a pricing point right at the beginning, then structuring their budget around that price point. Cut down on levels if necessary. Cut down on optimization a bit (the dev says the game has the same amount of code as The Witness), cut down on the soundtrack.
Blindly going all out on everything is a shitty idea in any business. Reading that thread you can tell they made some extremely poor decisions based on the thought that they were making basically the best platform ever and that fact alone would sell the game.
handsomepete
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tylerh1701
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The dev tones it down on the subsequent pages, but at first he comes off super smug, as if he's created the be-all end-all of platformers.
Part of the greatness of Super Meat Boy and Super Mario Bros is that the games have a
ing END! There is absolutely too much of a good thing.
tylerh1701
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That pre-order only discount is pretty sneaky and lame. I'm not a slave to reviews, but I want to get some impressions of it at least before I buy the game.
Thermopyle
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It would have cost a lot less to make 100 levels than it did 2000. Not sure what they were thinking there. There's no way they have enough new gameplay mechanics introduced as you play along to justify that many levels.
tylerh1701
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Yeah their marketing prowess is bad too. He said it felt scummy to spend half your budget on marketing. I'm not sure half is necessary, but obviously there needs to be sufficient marketing involved.
He also said it's become more regular for devs to pay popular streamers and youtubers to showcase their video. While that sounds weird to me, I guess it makes sense. You pay TV stations to air your commercials and you pay for any sort of product placement on TV shows. Web media outlets are getting big enough that I guess they can justify charging devs for that. I think it's super scummy if any big sites start charging devs to review their games (since reviews should be unbiased and uninfluenced opinions of something) but if big streamers and Youtubers just want to show off the game for an hour without making too many critical judgments, then that's something I can understand.
It was just an idealistic view that if they put everything they had into their game, it would be enough for it to succeed. Which isn't true in the real world. There's a lot more to success than just having great content.
I'm not surprised. I'm sure it's a fun game like N+ was but It looks too damn generic. I heard a podcast (I think the blogcast) where they had the programmer for this game on and he's talking about how impressive the game is from a resolution standpoint and the tech behind it etc. etc. It doesn't change the fact that the average person looks at it and goes "meh".
guardian_owl
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Not every indie game is a runaway success like Gone Home and can get away with charging $20. If a potential buyer had never heard of the franchise the name of the game also tells you nothing about it. And as you said, those who do take the time to seek out information on it may think that it looks like a glorified flash game or is just a port of N+ and is not worth $20.
2360 is also an overwhelming amount of levels, they probably would have been ahead to release a base game with fewer levels at a lower price point (especially since there is an in-game level editor to publish new levels). I know I would be long sick of the game before I could complete half of those levels so the large amount of levels for $20 has no extra value.
A vast amount of really short levels also seems like something that would have been a better fit with the Vita. Perhaps they should have put resources into making a vita port that was crossbuy, crossplay, and crossave, instead of having so many levels at launch. That certainly would have made the price point more palpable and would have offered the fallback option of making it a PS+ game down the line if they needed the money. I doubt Sony is going to want such a simple looking game on only the PS4 as a candidate for the instant game collection.
He also blames review sites for not reviewing the game, but then he says they were working on the game right up until release, giving reviewers no opportunity to play the finished game prior to launch. With that many levels, they need plenty of time to do a full review. If reviewers didn't get the game till launch, by the time they would have a real review done the game would be old news and thus wouldn't generate nearly as many clicks, making it not worth the effort for some review sites, especially since it had a preorder promotion. I'm not sure why they didn't stop making levels earlier and stick to their 1 month buffer timeline.
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tylerh1701
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Exactly. He really is sold that the art style is amazing and perfect. It's basically a stick figure with some hills and little circles and squares scattered around the levels. I'm sure they invested way too much in the visuals of the game.
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It's a newer release, but I'm mainly getting it based on Pancakes' (and CAiNiAC's? I could have sworn there was someone else who played and liked it) praise. I also hate getting Vita games incomplete if I plan on keeping them.
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captaintek3304
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I loved N++ and gave it a good review, but even I couldn't justify spending more than $10 on it. It kind of irks me that the dev is using the 2000+ levels as an example of look why it costs so much. Sure it has all those levels, but to the average player, they're not going to see more than 60-70% of those. There are a ton of co op levels which can't be completed without a partner (and there's no online multiplayer) and even more levels that are locked behind completion of other, super difficult levels.
The dev seems confusing to me. I think there are two people running the show, and maybe one is humble and realistic, while the other is uptight and way too idealistic. In my stream, they seemed pretty cool and gave a couple tips on playing the game. Then they talked about DLC/update plans. But then I asked a general question on twitter about how to unlock expert levels, and was basically shoved to the side and received a response of "Play the game more and find out!"
I'm surprised that more sites didn't pick it up for review though.
The dev seems confusing to me. I think there are two people running the show, and maybe one is humble and realistic, while the other is uptight and way too idealistic. In my stream, they seemed pretty cool and gave a couple tips on playing the game. Then they talked about DLC/update plans. But then I asked a general question on twitter about how to unlock expert levels, and was basically shoved to the side and received a response of "Play the game more and find out!"
I'm surprised that more sites didn't pick it up for review though.
Is that the one with the bow? I think everybody uses her for that free UAV, but I think it is kind of shitty. Saw only one person using glitch. Seemed pretty cool.
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