Saudi Woman is Gang Raped; Get's 6 mos. prison, 200 lashes

wildnuts02

wildnuts02

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  • Story Highlights
  • Woman, 19, gets six months prison, 200 lashes for meeting with unrelated man
  • Group of seven raped her and the man, from whom she was retrieving photos
  • After lawyer protests light sentences, rapists' sentences increased
  • Victim's punishment doubled for talking to the media
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pretty sick stuff if you ask me. cultural differences my ass.

link
 
Ah yes, that most insidious of cultural differences: rape. Good thing we don't have to worry about there in America.
 
[quote name='trq']Ah yes, that most insidious of cultural differences: rape. Good thing we don't have to worry about there in America.[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair, while there certainly is rape in the US, there is never, ever, ever any blaming of the victim in such cases.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Hey now, that's not very tolerant! You should cherish the diversity of other cultures![/QUOTE]

Where's the culture that lets me have sex with grade school girls? Because I want some of that culture.

Seriously, I wish somebody would just bust up that country big time because the government is so fucking retarded.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, to be fair, while there certainly is rape in the US, there is never, ever, ever any blaming of the victim in such cases.[/QUOTE]

Except for the victims blaming themselves.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, to be fair, while there certainly is rape in the US, there is never, ever, ever any blaming of the victim in such cases.[/quote]

If you believe that, then you sir are naive.

TBW
 
Seems to me that she was being punished for her illicit meetings, not for being raped.
The man she was meeting with was raped too.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Hey now, that's not very tolerant! You should cherish the diversity of other cultures![/quote]

You should talk about that on the next VanillaGorilla-internet-radio-podcast-show-no-name-thing.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Seems to me that she was being punished for her illicit meetings, not for being raped.
The man she was meeting with was raped too.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, not just seems. "Was." Not that I'm a huge fan of that either, but it's a far cry from "Victim gets 200 lashes for being raped," which is what the thread title suggests.
 
[quote name='trq']Yeah, not just seems. "Was." Not that I'm a huge fan of that either, but it's a far cry from "Victim gets 200 lashes for being raped," which is what the thread title suggests.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I put the "seems"in there because it is a bit ambiguous.
 
so the woman who was gang raped by seven men gets 90 LASHES for meeting up with a former friend to retrieve some photos. the ass raped man didn't get a punishment.

then on appeal to make the light sentence on the 7 rapists a little heavier, the court jacks up her punishment because she voiced her ordeal!

and somehow people think that's ok!? :bomb:
 
Saudi Arabia is totally barbaric. Public stoneing is still used for executions. I saw a UTube vid that showed a young woman being stoned to death for adultry.

Turkey is also pretty bad. My understanding is that it is legal to stab another below the waist.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']No one said it was right, but your thread title is quite misleading.[/quote]It's not misleading at all. She WAS raped. She WAS sentenced to 6 months in prison and 200 lashes. How is that misleading?

I'm so sick of people trying to somehow justify other peoples cultures and how barbaric and stupid they are. The culture over there is wrong, plain and simple. As a man who worships no God, I can plainly see that. But I suppose I'm just racist and intolerant.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']It's not misleading at all. She WAS raped. She WAS sentenced to 6 months in prison and 200 lashes. How is that misleading?

I'm so sick of people trying to somehow justify other peoples cultures and how barbaric and stupid they are. The culture over there is wrong, plain and simple. As a man who worships no God, I can plainly see that. But I suppose I'm just racist and intolerant.[/QUOTE]
She was sentenced for another reason than the thread title says she was. How the fuck is that not misleading? :roll:
It would be completely different if she was sentenced for being raped, but she wasn't.

And who in here is justifying it? I said that I wasn't right in the post you quoted, and no one has come out applauding what happened.
 
The title doesn't actually say that's why she got her punishment. It states two different facts (three if you count "Get's 6 mos. prison, 200 lashes" as two statements), never making a connection between them. It's equivalent to a thread titled "Boy eats cake; plays hockey."
 
there is a law there where women can not be in public ANYWHERE unless there are accompanied by a MALE

that is what she being punished for not being raped

the story is either unclear about that or left it out

but in no way im i condoing it
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']I'm so sick of people trying to somehow justify other peoples cultures and how barbaric and stupid they are. The culture over there is wrong, plain and simple. As a man who worships no God, I can plainly see that. But I suppose I'm just racist and intolerant.[/quote]

I don't quite understand what you're saying with the bolded part... but I don't think you're saying 'everyone who worships a god thinks this is A-OK'... Right?

Either way, it is one thing to respect cultural differences, it is another to write something off like this as anything but an crime and an atrocity.
 
The title is misleading - she wasn't punished for being raped.

It still seems crazy that she was punished for meeting an unrelated male and that her sentence was increased for making the case more public. Certainly doesn't seem right to American (or most any other country's) sensibilities.
 
[quote name='prmononoke']The title doesn't actually say that's why she got her punishment. It states two different facts (three if you count "Get's 6 mos. prison, 200 lashes" as two statements), never making a connection between them. It's equivalent to a thread titled "Boy eats cake; plays hockey."
[/QUOTE]

No, Liquid is right. Your example is too disjointed to work here. This is the equivalent of "Black man plays football; could go to jail!" as a headline about Michael Vick. The title is misleading, plain and simple.

[quote name='jho']The title is misleading - she wasn't punished for being raped.

It still seems crazy that she was punished for meeting an unrelated male and that her sentence was increased for making the case more public. Certainly doesn't seem right to American (or most any other country's) sensibilities.[/quote]

I don't know if the part about making the case more public is necessarily that outrageous. For example, publication of material deemed likely to jeopardize a fair trial can get you a contempt charge in the US. Of course, we Americans aren't fans of the "penalized for meeting with an unrelated male" bit, but that doesn't really let us get all morally outraged about Muslims like "woman raped and given 200 lashes!" does, so yay for "truthiness."

[quote name='h3llbring3r']http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/quote]

See, you're new, so I'm going to assume you haven't been on the "Vs." forums ever, where that site has been brought up like it means something on numerous occasions, and been dismantled for being stupid and/or intentionally provocative just as often. Feel free to go find pretty much any previous thread like this one if you're interested in seeing what it's like. Or keep posting the link. Whichever.
 
[quote name='looploop']speaking of outrageous sentencing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7102054.stm
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

About fucking time information like this is brought to (public) light. Decades of politicians trying to one-up each other by being bigger bad-asses on crime have led to a 700%+ increase in residing-prison populations and skyrocketing recidivism (postrelease reoffense) rates.

[quote name='h3llbring3r']http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/QUOTE]

Oh, lookie! David Horowitz is a CAG! :roll:

spanish_inquisition.jpg


Islam doesn't have the market cornered on slaughter, barbarism, or misogyny, toots. They do have the market cornered on delicious, delicious hummus, though.
 
[quote name='trq']No, Liquid is right. Your example is too disjointed to work here. This is the equivalent of "Black man plays football; could go to jail!" as a headline about Michael Vick. The title is misleading, plain and simple.[/quote]


wrong. your example is equally bad. the punishment of prison and lashes arose out of the fact that she was raped.

plus you ignore there is one of these ";" in between the two statements. not a "because," not an "as a result." just because your mind jumps to wrong and highly improbable conclusions doesn't mean that the title is misleading.

here is another similar example (which is common in odd-ball type headlines): "Arsonists blow up car; Car owner gets a ticket." I guess in some people's mind you think, "WHOA, dude got a ticket because someone blew up his car!?" which is totally retarded.

Instead, the reasonable person would think, "Oh, probably some asshole cop gave him a ticket because it was found out (due to the explosion which was presumably reported to the police) that he had expired registration, or didn't have insurance, etc..."
 
[quote name='trq']

I don't know if the part about making the case more public is necessarily that outrageous. For example, publication of material deemed likely to jeopardize a fair trial can get you a contempt charge in the US. Of course, we Americans aren't fans of the "penalized for meeting with an unrelated male" bit, but that doesn't really let us get all morally outraged about Muslims like "woman raped and given 200 lashes!" does, so yay for "truthiness."

[/QUOTE]

Good point definitely wasn't thinking along those lines.
 
[quote name='jho']Good point definitely wasn't thinking along those lines.[/quote]
actually, it's NOT a good point.

what I think he's talking about is "gag orders" which some judges exercise in highly publicized trials BEFORE there is a JURY selection

(1) her speaking out was AFTER the trial
(2) i guarantee you she didn't get a jury trial and even if she did i guarantee you no women were on it.
(3) in the U.S. if you violate a "gag order" your sentence isn't jacked up (which is impossible since there is no sentence yet) and at worst you're given a fine for contempt of court - i.e., not 100% more lashes.
 
Lawyer's License Revoked, Faces Disbarment and Suspension.

(CNN) -- A Saudi Arabian human rights attorney is asking the government to allow him to represent a woman who was gang-raped -- and then sentenced to prison for speaking out about the case.

Human rights groups want Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to drop charges against the rape victim.

The attorney, Abdulrahman al-Lahim, had his license revoked last week by a judge for speaking to the Saudi-controlled media about the case, al-Lahim told CNN.

The judge more than doubled the sentence against al-Lahim's 19-year-old client because she spoke to the media about the case, a court source told Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper.

The woman -- who was initially sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes -- had her sentenced increased to 200 lashes and was ordered to serve six months in prison under Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic law.

"We were shocked," al-Lahim said of the increased sentence.

CNN has been unable to reach Saudi government officials for comment on this report, despite repeated requests.

Al-Lahim had petitioned the court to sentence the attackers to the death penalty, but instead the court agreed to increase their jail sentences, which had been two to three years, to two to nine years, al-Lahim said.

The case has sparked outrage among human rights groups.

"Barring the lawyer from representing the victim in court is almost equivalent to the rape crime itself," said Fawzeyah al-Oyouni, founding member of the newly formed Saudi Association for the Defense of Women's Rights.

"This is not just about the girl, it's about every woman in Saudi Arabia," she said. "We're fearing for our lives and the lives of our sisters and our daughters and every Saudi woman out there. We're afraid of going out in the streets."

Human Rights Watch said it has called on Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah "to immediely void the verdict and drop all charges against the rape victim and to order the court to end its harassment of her lawyer."

The woman, who is married, and an unrelated man were abducted and she was raped by a group of seven men more than a year ago, the lawyer said. The male victim was also given an increased sentence of 200 lashes and six months in prison, al-Lahim said.

The man and woman were attacked after they met so she could retrieve an old photograph of herself from him, according to al-Lahim. Citing phone records from the police investigation, al-Lahim said the man was trying to blackmail his client. He noted the photo she was trying to retrieve was harmless and did not show his client in any compromising position.

Al-Lahim said the man tried to blame his client for insisting on meeting him that day. It is illegal for a woman to meet with an unrelated male under Saudi's Islamic law.

Al-Lahim has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month, where he faces a possible three-year suspension and disbarment, according to Human Rights Watch.

He told CNN he has appealed to the Ministry of Justice to reinstate his law license and plans to meet with Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al Al-Sheikh.

"Currently she doesn't have a lawyer, and I feel they're doing this to isolate her and deprive her from her basic rights," he said. "We will not accept this judgment and I'll do my best to continue representing her because justice needs to take place."

He said the handling of the case is a direct contradiction of judicial reforms announced by the Saudi king earlier this month.

"The Ministry of Justice needs to have a very clear standing regarding this case because I consider this decision to be judiciary mutiny against the reform that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz started and against Saudi women who are being victimized because of such decisions," he said.

Saudi Arabia's Islamic law or sharia is not written and, therefore, subject to a wide array of interpretations. Human Rights Watch points out that a judge in Jeddah threw out a lawyer simply because he was a member of the Ismaili faith, a branch of Shia Islam.

Under Saudi law, women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.

The Saudi government recently has taken some steps toward bettering the situation of women in the kingdom, including the establishment earlier this year of special courts to handle domestic abuse cases, adoption of a new labor law that addresses working women's rights and creation of a human rights commission.

Christoph Wilcke of Human Rights Watch praised the female rape victim and her attorney for speaking out about the case, which he said may be indicative of "many injustices that we still don't know about."

"It's not only one court, it is the Saudi government that is fully behind punishing a woman who's been raped (and) punishing the lawyer who's trying to help her and doing that both because they've spoken to the media," Wilcke told CNN. "And if they hadn't spoken to the media, we wouldn't know about it."

Shying away from criticism of key ally, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the case and the punishment "surprising" and "astonishing."
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"While this is a judicial procedure -- part of a judicial procedure -- overseas in courts outside of our country, still while it is very difficult to offer any detailed comment about this situation, I think most people would be quite astonished by the situation, " McCormack said.

"I can't get involved in specific court cases in Saudi Arabia dealing with its own citizens. But most people here would be quite surprised to learn of the circumstances and then the punishment meted out," he said.
Click to expand...
 
The hip thing to say in some circles of DC is "I'm vacationing in Dubai" (yes I know Dubai is in the UAE)

There's no way in hell you could get me to go to any one of those back-ass Mideval countries.
 
[quote name='camoor']The hip thing to say in some circles of DC is "I'm vacationing in Dubai" (yes I know Dubai is in the UAE)

There's no way in hell you could get me to go to any one of those back-ass Mideval countries.[/quote]

Suddenly the problems America has seem tolerable.
 
[quote name='wildnuts02']wrong. your example is equally bad. the punishment of prison and lashes arose out of the fact that she was raped.[/QUOTE]

No. The imprisonment and/or corporal punishment are for meeting with an unrelated man, and the penalties were increased for trying to publicize the trial. Her rape has nothing to do with either punishment whatsoever.

[quote name='wildnuts02']plus you ignore there is one of these ";" in between the two statements. not a "because," not an "as a result." just because your mind jumps to wrong and highly improbable conclusions doesn't mean that the title is misleading.[/QUOTE]

One of "those" -- a semicolon -- is used to indicate either a list or a pause in a sentence greater than a comma would provide, but lesser than a colon would. In either case, a connection is implied. If not, you start a new damned sentence. Really, this is stupid. A number of people have said it was unclear/misleading, yet you stick to your guns. Can you honestly not think of a better way to phrase the title, or are the alternatives just not sensationalistic enough for you?

[quote name='wildnuts02']actually, it's NOT a good point.

what I think he's talking about is "gag orders" which some judges exercise in highly publicized trials BEFORE there is a JURY selection

(1) her speaking out was AFTER the trial
(2) i guarantee you she didn't get a jury trial and even if she did i guarantee you no women were on it.
(3) in the U.S. if you violate a "gag order" your sentence isn't jacked up (which is impossible since there is no sentence yet) and at worst you're given a fine for contempt of court - i.e., not 100% more lashes.[/QUOTE]

Mmm ... nope. I meant exactly what I said: contempt of court, which DOES carry imprisonment in extreme cases.
 
[quote name='camoor']The hip thing to say in some circles of DC is "I'm vacationing in Dubai" (yes I know Dubai is in the UAE)

There's no way in hell you could get me to go to any one of those back-ass Mideval countries.[/QUOTE]

Dubai is awesome. And if you do go to the Middle East stay in the "richer" cities, it's the poorer places where you'll find "back-ass midevalness".

[quote name='mykevermin']
Islam doesn't have the market cornered on slaughter, barbarism, or misogyny, toots. They do have the market cornered on delicious, delicious hummus, though.[/QUOTE]

You forgot about hookahs and hookah lounges, without them where else would "hip" under 21 college students go?
 
[quote name='camoor']The hip thing to say in some circles of DC is "I'm vacationing in Dubai" (yes I know Dubai is in the UAE)

There's no way in hell you could get me to go to any one of those back-ass Mideval countries.[/quote]

Dubai is actually highly westernized (at least compared to the rest of the region).



My wife (it still feels a little wierd to say that after 2 weeks of marriage) is from Iran. It's stupid government crap like this that caused her to leave. The policies there are highly discriminant against women. For example:

1. When a person dies and the inheritance is split between their children, the girls get half of what the boys get.

2. A muslim man can marry a non-muslim woman (they assume she becomes muslim though the marriage) but a muslim woman can be killed if she gets married to a non-muslim man.

3. A man in Iran can get married to up to 4 women. No such ability for women. Recently the rules changed so a man has to get permission from the existing wives to marry a new one. Previously it was all up to him.

4. Cheating wives can be jailed or even killed. Guys get away scott free.
 
[quote name='CrimGhost']Dubai is awesome. And if you do go to the Middle East stay in the "richer" cities, it's the poorer places where you'll find "back-ass midevalness".



You forgot about hookahs and hookah lounges, without them where else would "hip" under 21 college students go?[/quote]

My best friend is Muslim and wanted me to try the hookah. I don't smoke though so I passed.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, to be fair, while there certainly is rape in the US, there is never, ever, ever any blaming of the victim in such cases.[/QUOTE]


except when oprah blamed the jogger who got raped at night time in an interview.
 
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