Sony Sued Over Removing Other OS Option

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http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1088481p1.html
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Sony Sued Again For Removing PS3 Linux Feature


Second class action lawsuit filed against SCEA.


by Jim Reilly

May 7, 2010 - A second class action lawsuit has been filed against Sony Computer Entertainment America for removing the 'Other OS' feature from the PlayStation 3.

The lawsuit, filed on Wednesday, May 5 by Todd Densmore of Cumming, Ga., and Antal Herz of San Francisco, Calif., claim Sony has rendered several PlayStation 3 features they paid for "inoperable" as a result of the release of firmware 3.21. The update, released on April 1, 2010, disabled the ability to install the Linux operating system. By choosing not to update their console, users couldn't access separate, non-related features, such as signing onto PlayStation Network.

The suit states Sony allegedly failed to disclose to customers that it reserved the right to remove advertised, built-in features. The suit also states the right to remove the 'Other OS' feature is not disclosed in Sony's Terms of Service or System Software License Agreement.

Densmore and Herz are seeking damages and other relief the Court deems just. The class includes anyone who purchased a PlayStation 3 from November 17, 2006 to March 27, 2010 and folks who continue to own their console as of March 27, 2010.

A complete copy of the lawsuit in PDF form can be viewed here.

This is the second class action lawsuit filed in the last two weeks against Sony for removing the feature. On April 28, a lawsuit was filed by Anthony Ventura of California. That lawsuit is still ongoing.

Sony representatives told IGN the company does not comment on pending litigation
 
lol, what... what are all those PS3 people gonna do with there PS3's now!? :whee:

If it weren't for the Blu Ray part it wouldn't make much different in my book and have sold mine a long time ago.
 
[quote name='earlje']most likely just use them as doorstops...[/QUOTE]

I already have a 360 doing that. Wii is propping up the table with the short leg.
 
[quote name='killias2']How do I join this? Are people from other states able to join?[/QUOTE]

Class actions generally notify you. After everything has been settled, if Sony is found in the wrong, you will likely get a letter or email from Sony describing how to claim your damages.
 
[quote name='killias2']How do I join this? Are people from other states able to join?[/QUOTE]

Why? Because you're one of those jackasses who is ready to crucify Sony for removing a feature that they have identified that may lead to piracy in the future? If you want to run Linux, run it on your computer. I seriously don't understand some people these days.
 
why? money. plain and simple. however, i do think that they should have some sort of warning or explanation- after all coffee is hot!
 
[quote name='monkeydoodle']Why? Because you're one of those jackasses who is ready to crucify Sony for removing a feature that they have identified that may lead to piracy in the future? If you want to run Linux, run it on your computer. I seriously don't understand some people these days.[/QUOTE]

But Sony promoted the hell out of it(even during the new 'it only does everything' commercials), so for them to take a function that people paid to have in their systems without some form of compensation is total bullshit.

Like I said in the firmware thread, what's next? The ability to play PS1 games on your PS3? The ability to play PS3 games without paying a fee every time you wanna play a game you own?

I hope Sony gets strung up and they go out of the gaming business. They have forgotten who put them on top last gen(the gamers buying the PS2 en masse)and are just out to charge for every little thing they can or take away functions they no longer feel people need. They deserve to join Sega in the pile of former console manufacturers.
 
[quote name='monkeydoodle']Why? Because you're one of those jackasses who is ready to crucify Sony for removing a feature that they have identified that may lead to piracy in the future?[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, they removed a feature that expressly sold units. Sony dropped the ball here, not the consumer.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I hope Sony gets strung up and they go out of the gaming business.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far, because then we'd be stuck with faulty hardware or waggle sticks to choose from.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But Sony promoted the hell out of it(even during the new 'it only does everything' commercials), so for them to take a function that people paid to have in their systems without some form of compensation is total bullshit.

Like I said in the firmware thread, what's next? The ability to play PS1 games on your PS3? The ability to play PS3 games without paying a fee every time you wanna play a game you own?

I hope Sony gets strung up and they go out of the gaming business. They have forgotten who put them on top last gen(the gamers buying the PS2 en masse)and are just out to charge for every little thing they can or take away functions they no longer feel people need. They deserve to join Sega in the pile of former console manufacturers.[/QUOTE]

Haha, wow. You people take video games way too seriously.
 
[quote name='Jodou']Doesn't matter, they removed a feature that expressly sold units. Sony dropped the ball here, not the consumer.

I wouldn't go that far, because then we'd be stuck with faulty hardware or waggle sticks to choose from.[/QUOTE]
I'd much rather if Sega made a comeback then somehow to fill the void. Their hardware was pretty damn reliable. I don't recall EVER having issues with my Genesis back in the day.
[quote name='elwood731']Haha, wow. You people take video games way too seriously.[/QUOTE]
Do you have a PS3? If so, how much did you pay for it? If you were an early adopter and paid $600 for one, don't you feel the least bit angry with them taking away a function that was there since launch?

I know I certainly would. But then again, people are so used to companies bending them over and cornholing them, so I guess it doesn't even bother most to lose functionality as long as it helps the big corporation that only cares about their MONEY.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Do you have a PS3? If so, how much did you pay for it? If you were an early adopter and paid $600 for one, don't you feel the least bit angry with them taking away a function that was there since launch?

I know I certainly would. But then again, people are so used to companies bending them over and cornholing them, so I guess it doesn't even bother most to lose functionality as long as it helps the big corporation that only cares about their MONEY.[/QUOTE]

I think most people just have more to worry about in life than a little used feature on a video game console. It isn't that they care all that much about large corporations, it's just that neither do they care about much of anything except for what they bought the thing for--playing games. It's like the people who yell and scream and cry over Apple, never understanding that 99.9% of the people who buy an iPhone couldn't care less about the things people online throw a fit over.

I'm much more concerned about the failure rates of the PS2 and XBOX 360 since those actually keep me from, you know, playing video games.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I'd much rather if Sega made a comeback then somehow to fill the void. Their hardware was pretty damn reliable. I don't recall EVER having issues with my Genesis back in the day.

Do you have a PS3? If so, how much did you pay for it? If you were an early adopter and paid $600 for one, don't you feel the least bit angry with them taking away a function that was there since launch?

I know I certainly would. But then again, people are so used to companies bending them over and cornholing them, so I guess it doesn't even bother most to lose functionality as long as it helps the big corporation that only cares about their MONEY.[/QUOTE]


i got in on the mgs4 bundle and i have to say i dont care that they took out the option for 2 reasons.

1. i never used it and wasnt really planning to.

2. i understand why they got rid of it and whose to say once they figure out how to improve it that they wont bring it back.


its not a big loss and the major reason most people bought earlier versions of the ps3 was because they want bc. other os was just icing on the cake much like some of the other lesser known abilities of the early ps3s. if you want to be mad at someone or sue someone go after the people who tried hacking the ps3 causing sony to decide to pull the option.

the one thing people should be pissed off and wanting to sue over is the shitty thermal paste they used in earlier consoles that over time cause ylod. and then not being able to recover your saves if your ps died before you could upload them to something and then if its past warranty , which many are, youre forced to either find someone to fix it for you , send it in to sony or 150 bucks without a gaurantee that youll get back your system and not a refurb, or try and fix it yourself. thats one thing ill give M$ props for they at least extended everyones warrantys for free.
 
I would opt out of the money if they gave us the option to never update again while still using PSN. I couldn't care less about these fluff features, I bought a PS3 for the games. And jumping through hoops each week is too much of a hassle, it wastes time and drive space plus has the potential to brick my 60gb. It sucks that I've been offline for over a month but at least when I turn on the console and play a game I own, it's going to work right away.
 
[quote name='monkeydoodle']Why? Because you're one of those jackasses who is ready to crucify Sony for removing a feature that they have identified that may lead to piracy in the future? If you want to run Linux, run it on your computer. I seriously don't understand some people these days.[/QUOTE]

I seriously don't understand this attitude.

The PS3 is a computer. The idea that the computer manufacturer can dictate what operating system you run, what applications you use, and what features you can use this month should be repellent.

The idea that the manufacturer can purposely remove consumer features and options because someone, somewhere might use the computer in an unintended way should be repellent. Why should honest, loyal customers be punished? The only reason that Sony is punishing the innocent is because they can.

It's a feature that may lead to piracy in the future? Come on. Piracy exists on every platform and every format. DRM and OS-level restrictions never impact pirates -- they only come back to bite and inconvenience the honest customers. The pirates will always find a way.

I didn't run Linux on my PS3, but I always valued the ability to do so if I so wished. Now that's gone, for no good reason. I hope the lawsuit succeeds.
 
I hope more and more people keep popping up with law suits, if anything they have attracted pirates to their system to spite them now.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I seriously don't understand this attitude.

The PS3 is a computer. The idea that the computer manufacturer can dictate what operating system you run, what applications you use, and what features you can use this month should be repellent.

The idea that the manufacturer can purposely remove consumer features and options because someone, somewhere might use the computer in an unintended way should be repellent. Why should honest, loyal customers be punished? The only reason that Sony is punishing the innocent is because they can.

It's a feature that may lead to piracy in the future? Come on. Piracy exists on every platform and every format. DRM and OS-level restrictions never impact pirates -- they only come back to bite and inconvenience the honest customers. The pirates will always find a way.

I didn't run Linux on my PS3, but I always valued the ability to do so if I so wished. Now that's gone, for no good reason. I hope the lawsuit succeeds.[/QUOTE]

1. The PS3 is a piss-poor computer. 256MB of RAM is laughable, even with YDL.

2. Honest, loyal customers have been punished for decades because of what other, dishonest people, have done.

3. The PS3 has thus far (almost 4 years down the road) managed to evade piracy (on a large-scale). It will likely be cracked, but you have to commend Sony for keeping hackers at bay for almost 4 years. Developers and publishers alike are likely happy about this as well.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']3. The PS3 has thus far (almost 4 years down the road) managed to evade piracy (on a large-scale). It will likely be cracked, but you have to commend Sony for keeping hackers at bay for almost 4 years. Developers and publishers alike are likely happy about this as well.[/QUOTE]

If so then everything would release for the PS3. Instead the 'protection' drives away legit customers and that would drive developers away. I know I'm sick of updating and that means all the developers who release new games are going to lose business.
 
I can see this lawsuit failing and nothing changing as of yet. How people can get on Sony for something so completely trivial when M$ has been making cheap, shitty products year after year is completely beyond me.
 
^ Yeah, no shit. Let's hope people with half a brain see this case and dismiss it so we can put this behind us. What a waste of time; if you bought a PS3 just to put Linux on it, you're a freaking dope. You can get a free computer from someone throwing it away and put Linux on it.
 
But the point is that Sony took away a function that they clearly advertised and touted as one of the better reasons to get a PS3. Even the US government is using it and I believe the specific function they were/are using is Linux on it.

As far as MS selling crap products, last gen that title belonged to Sony without a doubt.

Oh and kurrupt using the cash sign to describe Microsoft while not using it with $ony shows you're a fanboy as they're both money grubbing corporations who only want your cash.
 
Ok, once and for all if you think this is trivial then you do not understand what is going on and need to be quiet. This has nothing to do with M$'s inferior products, it's about Sony taking our money for many more features that we have lost or will lose, and fighting to keep all we originally paid for. Well, for most people that's why. I'm just in support of it to put an end to updates. At least make them a non-requirement to use PSN.

Huh? Last gen Sony did MUCH better. The PS2's DRE could be fixed by cleaning the laser. I did it twice and still have a functioning launch console. Not once did I want to play a game and be stopped by online services being down, game patches, or useless hardware updates nobody wants. Sony has lost their focus on the gaming market, they killed the PSP by putting too much crap into it and the PS3 is finding its way to the same position.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']Ok, once and for all if you think this is trivial then you do not understand what is going on and need to be quiet. This has nothing to do with M$'s inferior products, it's about Sony taking our money for many more features that we have lost or will lose, and fighting to keep all we originally paid for. Well, for most people that's why. I'm just in support of it to put an end to updates. At least make them a non-requirement to use PSN.

Huh? Last gen Sony did MUCH better. The PS2's DRE could be fixed by cleaning the laser. I did it twice and still have a functioning launch console. Not once did I want to play a game and be stopped by online services being down, game patches, or useless hardware updates nobody wants. Sony has lost their focus on the gaming market, they killed the PSP by putting too much crap into it and the PS3 is finding its way to the same position.[/QUOTE]
But for the ordinary consumer, the DRE issue was a problem they could not or would not take the time to solve via opening up their system and cleaning the laser. So many consumers simply bought multiple PS2's to replace the ones that didn't want to read games anymore.

How do I know this? I had friends who had the DRE and never knew how to clean the laser or even wanted to learn when I wanted to show them how to do it. I also see many ads on Craigslist from people selling 'PS2's that don't read any game anymore' for next to nothing that they could be using if they took the time to Google a solution.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Even the US government is using it and I believe the specific function they were/are using is Linux on it.[/QUOTE]

yeah and they arent playing video games on them so they dont need to update or connect to psn. no one who bought a ps3 in the general public, uses it for the same reasons the govt is.

maybe im in the minority here, but i couldnt give two shits about the stuff sony has taken away from the ps3. backwards compatibility? who cares, i played all the games i ever wanted to when i had a ps2. lunix? who cares, run it on a desktop/laptop.

if those things make a pound of sand magically insert into your vagina, then sell your ps3 and go game on your REAL computer where linux roams free.
 
umm, i've never seen the 'other OS' option advertised when I purchased my 120gb slim. thank you for enlightening me as to "what is going on" as I couldn't gather that by the thread title.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']umm, i've never seen the 'other OS' option advertised when I purchased my 120gb slim. thank you for enlightening me as to "what is going on" as I couldn't gather that by the thread title.[/QUOTE]


it was advertised on my phat
 
The whole thing that bothers me about this, is the fact that Sony wants to keep control of a product that their customers legally own. That is too much power and I hope the end results of these lawsuits keeps Sony and other manufacturers out of products thay have sold.

Sony has left consumers with two poor choices in this matter. You can not update and keep your other OS, but then you lose access to to PSN. Or you can keep PSN, but lose the other os feature. I really don't know or care why people would support manufacturer's rights over consumer rights. But we've already let publishers/developers and manufacturers have too much control over products that we've purchased. I sure as hell don't want to lose anymore rights we as consumers have.
 
[quote name='mogamer']The whole thing that bothers me about this, is the fact that Sony wants to keep control of a product that their customers legally own. That is too much power and I hope the end results of these lawsuits keeps Sony and other manufacturers out of products thay have sold.

Sony has left consumers with two poor choices in this matter. You can not update and keep your other OS, but then you lose access to to PSN. Or you can keep PSN, but lose the other os feature. I really don't know or care why people would support manufacturer's rights over consumer rights. But we've already let publishers/developers and manufacturers have too much control over products that we've purchased. I sure as hell don't want to lose anymore rights we as consumers have.[/QUOTE]

People will defend manufacturer's rights over consumer rights for 2 reasons

1. Blind fanboy's of said company
2. They currently do not use the function so they figure screw everyone else that does.

Either way, it was an advertised feature of the PS3 Phat and if you start allowing companies to have that kind of control over a product you purchased is asinine.

I hope the people suing win this case for our future rights as consumers, as should all of you.
 
How about they just sue for $500 or whatever they paid for their PS3 and see how it comes out.

Again, it may have been advertised but I hardly doubt someone asked a store clerk to open the case that holds PS3's and let them see it. Reading every single piece of information on the box, and eventually discovering this Other OS function.

Unless, someone actually did that and I stand corrected.
 
Somehow, I doubt the people suing Sony are doing it for consumer protection. I do, however, see this issue getting very interesting, and could have implications for how patching works in Software too.

Let's not kid ourselves - the "install Other OS" is a relatively minor feature of the PS3. It's something less than one percent of the installbase will even consider installing (unless it becomes a way to pirate stuff). It's something maybe 0.1% of those that don't own a PS3 would even know about. I've heard far more people complain about it getting removed than I've heard people say they actually used it. If it was really done to stop piracy, then I can definitely understand why it was removed.

However, it was a feature, in at least some sense of the console. No matter how small, there are still people who are using it and will be negatively impacted. Imagine if Nintendo patched out the ability to use SD cards or something...or Microsoft patched out the ability to play games altogether. Obviously they wouldn't, but is there anything preventing them from doing so? Is there some measure by which a feature can be judged "safe" to remove?

If this suit succeeds, I'll start wondering if it's illegal to patch anything out of any software or hardware. Hell, if it's illegal to force people to patch anything at all (and still allow them to play online and so on). Is there a fundamental difference between patching out a relatively unused feature and patching out a weapon or level in a game?
 
I never used the option on my PS3, but I can see why those who did would be upset with the decision. In all honesty, it was Sony's mistake to make it an option in the first place.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Let's not kid ourselves - the "install Other OS" is a relatively minor feature of the PS3. It's something less than one percent of the installbase will even consider installing (unless it becomes a way to pirate stuff). It's something maybe 0.1% of those that don't own a PS3 would even know about. I've heard far more people complain about it getting removed than I've heard people say they actually used it. If it was really done to stop piracy, then I can definitely understand why it was removed.[/QUOTE]

You obviously have no idea why people are upset about it. It's not because they were or were not using it, it was because it was an advertised feature, much like backwards compatibility, that gave the original models of the PS3 their value and uniqueness, because those options were never available on the slim models. If they're able to patch that out, how long until they decide to patch out backwards compatibility for the 2nd gen models that don't contain the Emotion Engine chip, because they all rely on Software Emulation to run PS2 games? They won't, obviously, because then they'd have to patch out PS1 compatibility as well.. but it's still entirely possible that they might.

Piracy is a concern, but I doubt this is the real reason they removed it. In truth, it's likely that they removed it so that all updates are uniform across the board and they don't have to code two versions for each XMB update (one with that feature, and one without).

If you paid $600 for your PS3, you have every right in the world to be upset. I'm not upset, per se, but I'm not thrilled about their decision either. I would have never used it, but that doesn't mean I didn't like the fact that I could if I rightly chose to.

The best way to describe it to anyone who doesn't understand is like this: Think about it like it's an iPod touch or an iPad. Apple decides: "Oh, most people using these devices don't use Wifi, they just play music or use it as an e-reader, so let's update the firmware to disable that option."

You can argue that my comparison is not in context, but then you're going to have to try and explain how you can decide what is useful and what is not, and to explain how other people view their definition of useful, is a task that no one is suited to do.
 
You may want to actually read the rest of my post. In particular, the paragraph after the one you quoted. I understand how slippery a slope it can be if we allow removing of one feature. If this action is deemed "okay", then by what measure can a company change a piece of hardware before it isn't "okay".
 
[quote name='8bitArtist']yeah and they arent playing video games on them so they dont need to update or connect to psn. no one who bought a ps3 in the general public, uses it for the same reasons the govt is.

maybe im in the minority here, but i couldnt give two shits about the stuff sony has taken away from the ps3. backwards compatibility? who cares, i played all the games i ever wanted to when i had a ps2. lunix? who cares, run it on a desktop/laptop.

if those things make a pound of sand magically insert into your vagina, then sell your ps3 and go game on your REAL computer where linux roams free.[/QUOTE]

Because BOTH of those functions were advertised and touted as a reason to get the PS3 when it initially launched and Linux was advertised in MANY of those 'It Only Does Everything' commercials. It seems like Sony was ok in the beginning with keeping these functions in their consoles, but as time progresses they're gimping their own console more and more.

But as long as the average consumer continues to be ok with getting bent over, companies will continue to give you everything at first and then take it away when it offers no benefit to them to let you keep it.

I don't know about you, but if I paid $600 for a console I'd want $600 worth of functionality in it. At present without the BC and Linux, the PS3 is priced about right I suppose.

[quote name='kurrptsenate']umm, i've never seen the 'other OS' option advertised when I purchased my 120gb slim. thank you for enlightening me as to "what is going on" as I couldn't gather that by the thread title.[/QUOTE]

See above. It was advertised in those 'It Only Does Everything' tv commercials for a while.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']You may want to actually read the rest of my post. In particular, the paragraph after the one you quoted. I understand how slippery a slope it can be if we allow removing of one feature. If this action is deemed "okay", then by what measure can a company change a piece of hardware before it isn't "okay".[/QUOTE]

I read it, but you, again, still obviously have no idea.. perhaps I should have said you have no idea about what's going on in this thread instead.

You're looking at it from a "if this is ok, what's next" standpoint, which is a legitimate question in itself, but this thread isn't about that. It is about the suit filed in regards to what DID happen, not what COULD happen. All your other examples of what if are correct, but they are just thoughts. This has actually impacted original style PS3 owners.

Back to topic: People may not use those features very often, but there's really no justification in any company patching features out of a device that is fully capable of performing certain tasks. Verizon does this constantly with cell phones. Take a look at the HTC Touch Pro for example, it has 192mb of ram on AT&T and Sprint, but it's locked to 128mb on Verizon, and the hardware is exactly the same.
 
[quote name='xilly']You obviously have no idea why people are upset about it. It's not because they were or were not using it, it was because it was an advertised feature, much like backwards compatibility, that gave the original models of the PS3 their value and uniqueness, because those options were never available on the slim models. If they're able to patch that out, how long until they decide to patch out backwards compatibility for the 2nd gen models that don't contain the Emotion Engine chip, because they all rely on Software Emulation to run PS2 games? They won't, obviously, because then they'd have to patch out PS1 compatibility as well.. but it's still entirely possible that they might.

Piracy is a concern, but I doubt this is the real reason they removed it. In truth, it's likely that they removed it so that all updates are uniform across the board and they don't have to code two versions for each XMB update (one with that feature, and one without).

If you paid $600 for your PS3, you have every right in the world to be upset. I'm not upset, per se, but I'm not thrilled about their decision either. I would have never used it, but that doesn't mean I didn't like the fact that I could if I rightly chose to.

The best way to describe it to anyone who doesn't understand is like this: Think about it like it's an iPod touch or an iPad. Apple decides: "Oh, most people using these devices don't use Wifi, they just play music or use it as an e-reader, so let's update the firmware to disable that option."

You can argue that my comparison is not in context, but then you're going to have to try and explain how you can decide what is useful and what is not, and to explain how other people view their definition of useful, is a task that no one is suited to do.[/QUOTE]


bc wasnt going to lead to piracy becoming an issue on the ps3 but the hack of the os system could have. in the end put the blame where its due the guys who hacked and then bragged about hacking the ps3. sony is trying to protect their investment as well as the investment of those who own a ps3. so far theres been the one issue with those messages sent on psn that when clicked on stole peoples passwords.

how much worse do you think things like that could get if the other os option was still there and the hack used by those whose interests in hacking arent more or less pure?some hackers dont even do shit to get something they just live to fuck up stuff for everyone else. i know alot of people have hate for sony for the diff things they do same as for microsoft and ninendo but in the end business is business and you have to do what you can to keep things safe.

you cant tell me that if they knew about that hack and did nothing and then the hackers did something with it that caused all or most ps3s to no longer work that you and any number of other ps3 owners wouldnt be pissed with sony for doing nothing and of course wed be talking about another lawsuit.

they did what they had to do to head off a possibly bigger situation down the road. better to have a few people pissed off now than alot of people pised off later. lets not forget how crazy people got when the clock situation happened a while back.
 
[quote name='lokizz']they did what they had to do to head off a possibly bigger situation down the road. better to have a few people pissed off now than alot of people pised off later. lets not forget how crazy people got when the clock situation happened a while back.[/QUOTE]
That's why I'm glad I no longer have a phat PS3, since my slim wasn't affected by the clock issue.:razz:

But I think what many on here are trying to say is that instead of finding a way to secure the 'other OS' function from hacking, Sony just said 'you no longer need this because we're too fuckin' cheap to try to program a patch to prevent people from using it for bad purposes'.

They took the LAZY way out and have a bunch of customers very pissed off at them and the hackers trying even harder to break/crack the console's security.

I personally never used the Linux function when I had the 40gb model I did, but the point is that they took a function away that people paid to have on the console. So those people who might've been using it deserve something for it.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']That's why I'm glad I no longer have a phat PS3, since my slim wasn't affected by the clock issue.:razz:

But I think what many on here are trying to say is that instead of finding a way to secure the 'other OS' function from hacking, Sony just said 'you no longer need this because we're too fuckin' cheap to try to program a patch to prevent people from using it for bad purposes'.

They took the LAZY way out and have a bunch of customers very pissed off at them and the hackers trying even harder to break/crack the console's security.

I personally never used the Linux function when I had the 40gb model I did, but the point is that they took a function away that people paid to have on the console. So those people who might've been using it deserve something for it.[/QUOTE]

and what people dont seem to get is maybe just maybe its only a temporary thing. they could bring it back or bring back something even better but what was done was for everyones safety as well as their own financial reasons. i dont pretend to know much about pc programming and shit of that sort but i know it took this long for someone to hack it so it could take the same time, longer or shorter to fix the problem if they are fixing it so far we dont know but complaining and frivilous lawsuits wont fix shit.
 
[quote name='lokizz']and what people dont seem to get is maybe just maybe its only a temporary thing. they could bring it back or bring back something even better but what was done was for everyones safety as well as their own financial reasons. i dont pretend to know much about pc programming and shit of that sort but i know it took this long for someone to hack it so it could take the same time, longer or shorter to fix the problem if they are fixing it so far we dont know but complaining and frivilous lawsuits wont fix shit.[/QUOTE]
If people are too stupid to recognize spam messages from all of the ones they get in normal email(and I get a TON) and click on them in their PSN messages, then they deserve to get hacked and their accounts stolen.

As far as these being frivilous lawsuits, people are suing for a function that was removed and to me that is NOT in the least bit frivilous.

Now if Sony would stop requiring the updates and allow you to pick and choose stuff that you want and don't, I would completely stop complaining about them.

But I hope that the people suing win and Sony has to fully reimburse them.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']If people are too stupid to recognize spam messages from all of the ones they get in normal email(and I get a TON) and click on them in their PSN messages, then they deserve to get hacked and their accounts stolen.

As far as these being frivilous lawsuits, people are suing for a function that was removed and to me that is NOT in the least bit frivilous.

Now if Sony would stop requiring the updates and allow you to pick and choose stuff that you want and don't, I would completely stop complaining about them.

But I hope that the people suing win and Sony has to fully reimburse them.[/QUOTE]


no you wont ever stop complaining. if its not the updates its the lack of bc or the games prices ect ect ect. you seem to have a serious personal hate for sony and if thats the case i ask you why not get rifd of yours and get something else. updates arent going anywhere and the updates arent just for the console theyre for games too and sony isnt the only game console that has updates so if updates are that much a negative to you why bother?
 
[quote name='lokizz'] so far theres been the one issue with those messages sent on psn that when clicked on stole peoples passwords.
[/QUOTE]

That's not hacking; it's phishing.
[quote name='lokizz']
how much worse do you think things like that could get if the other os option was still there and the hack used by those whose interests in hacking arent more or less pure?some hackers dont even do shit to get something they just live to fuck up stuff for everyone else. i know alot of people have hate for sony for the diff things they do same as for microsoft and ninendo but in the end business is business and you have to do what you can to keep things safe. [/QUOTE]

You make it sound as though virii would run rampant on our PS3s. If a real hack were discovered for the PS3, anything related to it would only work on hacked consoles. If a hack did surface that allowed piracy, and my neighbor decided to pirate a game, what does that have to do with me?

[quote name='lokizz']and what people dont seem to get is maybe just maybe its only a temporary thing. they could bring it back or bring back something even better but what was done was for everyones safety as well as their own financial reasons. i dont pretend to know much about pc programming and shit of that sort but i know it took this long for someone to hack it so it could take the same time, longer or shorter to fix the problem if they are fixing it so far we dont know but complaining and frivilous lawsuits wont fix shit.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "what people don't seem to get"?

They never said anything about it being temporary. It's permanent until they say otherwise, which they've given no interest in doing.

How do you think this was done for "everyones safety"? Safety from what?

And this lawsuit is far from frivolous - that would be like if someone was banned from xbox live and wanted to sue. This is about a feature, that WAS advertised and WAS a contributing factor to people's purchases, and WAS a feature used by some being taken away. How can you say the value of those people's money is less than everyone else's?
 
[quote name='lokizz']no you wont ever stop complaining. if its not the updates its the lack of bc or the games prices ect ect ect. you seem to have a serious personal hate for sony and if thats the case i ask you why not get rifd of yours and get something else. updates arent going anywhere and the updates arent just for the console theyre for games too and sony isnt the only game console that has updates so if updates are that much a negative to you why bother?[/QUOTE]

I play the games and I don't give a damn about the console(except for the fact it doesn't break every other month).

As for the BC thing, I did give up on that. But the updates have NO value for me. However, if I don't download them I can't get on PSN AT ALL unless I do some cockamamie workaround.:roll:

The only two things Sony has added to the PS3 via updates that was any good for me are: text chat and in-game XMB.

Otherwise, they can take the Facebook icon(s), PS Store icons in multitudes of eleven billion and background sparkles that're able to be manipulated by SixAxis and shove them up their ass.

If the updates contain fixes for crap that I want(aka less icons on my friggin' XMB), then great. Otherwise, they always seem to add garbage that the 12 year olds who frequent the PS Blog whine for until Sony has one of their code monkeys sloppily program a patch/update for.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But I think what many on here are trying to say is that instead of finding a way to secure the 'other OS' function from hacking, Sony just said 'you no longer need this because we're too fuckin' cheap to try to program a patch to prevent people from using it for bad purposes'.

They took the LAZY way out and have a bunch of customers very pissed off at them and the hackers trying even harder to break/crack the console's security.[/QUOTE]

if they found a way to secure the other OS function in an update, they would go about it the same exact way, which is "download this update or lose the option to access to psn" and that wouldnt accomplish anything cuz the people who wouldnt use it for hacking would download it but the people that would use it for hacking are back at the same argument.

sony is probably looking at it like this: having a handful of people pissed at us with the trade off of protecting our investment is worth it... and i dont blame them. 360 suffers from hacking and playing burnt games and Wii suffers even more since its super easy to mod. the same argument could be made with the wii and their updates that bricked consoles with mod chips in them. well what if i was using a mod chip for the sole purpose of playing backups of games i already own (LOL). again, a few bad apples ruins it for everyone (only wii hackers are much more prevalent).
 
[quote name='Methadon']That's not hacking; it's phishing.


You make it sound as though virii would run rampant on our PS3s. If a real hack were discovered for the PS3, anything related to it would only work on hacked consoles. If a hack did surface that allowed piracy, and my neighbor decided to pirate a game, what does that have to do with me?



What do you mean "what people don't seem to get"?

They never said anything about it being temporary. It's permanent until they say otherwise, which they've given no interest in doing.

How do you think this was done for "everyones safety"? Safety from what?

And this lawsuit is far from frivolous - that would be like if someone was banned from xbox live and wanted to sue. This is about a feature, that WAS advertised and WAS a contributing factor to people's purchases, and WAS a feature used by some being taken away. How can you say the value of those people's money is less than everyone else's?[/QUOTE]

i didnt call it a hack i said it was an "issue" just like hacking can lead to future issues. again like i said before if you all are so unhappy with sonys decision get rid of your ps3s and get another console.thats like buying a brand of soda hating the way it tastes and then concinuting to buy it and comlain about it.

they made a change and you hate it well youve got 2 options stay on and get over it or show them how much youre against them removing the os option and sellin off your ps3 and getting an xbox or a wii. i didnt like the direction nintendo went with the wii so ive never played one and didnt buy one. problem solved.

the other os option is gone maybe permanently maybe not and as i said whose to say something new may or may not be down the line. i lke my console and the doing what they did doesnt diminish that at all.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I play the games and I don't give a damn about the console(except for the fact it doesn't break every other month).

As for the BC thing, I did give up on that. But the updates have NO value for me. However, if I don't download them I can't get on PSN AT ALL unless I do some cockamamie workaround.:roll:

The only two things Sony has added to the PS3 via updates that was any good for me are: text chat and in-game XMB.

Otherwise, they can take the Facebook icon(s), PS Store icons in multitudes of eleven billion and background sparkles that're able to be manipulated by SixAxis and shove them up their ass.

If the updates contain fixes for crap that I want(aka less icons on my friggin' XMB), then great. Otherwise, they always seem to add garbage that the 12 year olds who frequent the PS Blog whine for until Sony has one of their code monkeys sloppily program a patch/update for.[/QUOTE]


im with you on that i dont like some of the stuff theyve added with updates but i see why they did it. do i want to use facebook on a ps3 hell not but theres alot of people who do. they make changes based on the maority not the minority. sucks but thats how it is. look at the lack of ps1 games ( decent ps1 games) coming out on psn that shit drives me nuts but i know sometime down the road they will put out some of the better shit you just have to wait.

im still hopeful that they will make it so you can play more media types on the ps3, wishful thinking yeah but im hopeful. for the things theyve done wrong imo ( psn updates, crappy thermal paste, lack of media play option, custom soundtracks in all games) theyve done alot right and yeah this will sound fanboyish but i think theyve done it better than their competition. only time will tell and im willing to wait and see how the console grows.

theyve made mistakes and theyve made successes and if they console has the lifespan they said it would were still a ways away from seeing it at its fullest potential imo.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But for the ordinary consumer, the DRE issue was a problem they could not or would not take the time to solve via opening up their system and cleaning the laser. So many consumers simply bought multiple PS2's to replace the ones that didn't want to read games anymore.

How do I know this? I had friends who had the DRE and never knew how to clean the laser or even wanted to learn when I wanted to show them how to do it. I also see many ads on Craigslist from people selling 'PS2's that don't read any game anymore' for next to nothing that they could be using if they took the time to Google a solution.[/QUOTE]

Yeah and this is a huge problem. Consoles are unfortunately more like PC's, meaning they have fans, create heat, and need to be cleaned. Unlike consoles of the past with many less moving parts. Why people would spend more money buying replacement products (and throwing/selling the old one away) is stupid and wasteful.

Luckily I was able to help a few friends by cleaning their console. It wasn't a complicated job after you did it once. Sadly the same problem occured with the 360, they were lazy and rushed to buy another. Bad idea.
 
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