Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void

[quote name='KhaosX']I guess if you're massing tier 1 units early game reapers would be a problem. But by the time your opponent haas a sizable amount, you should have tier 1.5 units yourself (marauders, stalkers, roach/zling) and they can easily take down reapers.[/QUOTE]

Because the reaper can circumvent the 'normal' defenses, moving your units to attack the reaper is a factor as well. Even if you catch the reapers quick enough to move your peons, you still lose that income while your units take the reapers out.

Stalkers have blink and roaches have burrow + move. Both of the abilities are learned in a building AFTER the barracks/gateway. It costs 150/150 + the build and upgrade time + the cost of the templar archives to use blink. it costs 150/150 (i think) to upgrade to lair, 100/100 for burrow, 150/150 (i think) for digging claws, and + build/upgrade time.

On top of that, stalkers cost 125/50, and roaches cost 75/25 (i think). Reapers cost 50/50, AND require no upgrades for their mobility.

In order to sneak by as any other race, a much, much larger outlay of resources need to be put out. Terran have a clear racial advantage as far as harassing goes. Counterable or not, reapers are pretty OP as they are currently configured. If they were a melee unit (like the squads in Warhammer 40k they're clearly stolen from) it wouldn't be nearly as absurd.

Thats my opinion anyway.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']On top of that, stalkers cost 125/50, and roaches cost 75/25 (i think). Reapers cost 50/50, AND require no upgrades for their mobility.[/QUOTE]
Nitro for Reapers is 100/100, and Reapers are MUCH more fragile than a roach or a stalker. You need 3 reapers to take out a stalker, stalkers outrange reapers, and they have no shot at taking out a roach let alone one with queen support.

Reapers are limited in use, they only see early-mid game play. Mid-late game you're much better harassing with nukes. Plus they require a ton of micro and it's very difficult to build and maintain your base while microing them at the same time.

In TvP if your harass fails, the gas/min cost is so much that you most likely will not survive the 9 min immortal push. It's hard enough to survive without a harass. And if microing one reaper is hard, using 2 reapers to attack from different angles is very difficult, AND to really benefit from it you have to build your base at the same time.

They are way far from overpowered. I think they're perfectly balanced.
 
yeah when the beta first started everyone thought reaper was the most imbalanced unit because everyone was just reaper rushing and killing everything in a few hits. But people realized that if someone is getting a lot of reapers and they all die (which they do easily to stalkers, roaches, speedlings, etc), that means they have less marauders/marines and will die to any substantial attack

most terrans I think just get one early reaper to hopefully catch the opponent off guard. But after that they need to get marauders because any type of immortal or roach push will kill them if they keep getting reapers
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Well...

At least the EMP radius was reduced?

Seriously though, the new Ghosts fucking terrify me. EMP on an infantry unit? Jesus Christ! Not to mention the upgraded nukes...
[/QUOTE]

I am so rolling Terran now. Believe me.
 
[quote name='kainzero']
They are way far from overpowered. I think they're perfectly balanced.[/QUOTE]

I think we're in different skill levels, with me being weaker at the game, so your opinion probably means more than mine does.

In the class I'm playing in, that one unit seems much more dangerous than the other early/mid game units.. which indicates to me an imbalance.

Related to that.. I REALLY like the matchmaking; In SC1, most of my matches were either me crushing the enemy on my first attack, or me getting crushed on my first attack - I had very few games with a back-and forth due to the wide skill ranges you wind up with in an open game.

The matchmaking in the SC2 beta is a lot better than that of Warcraft III, I feel like I'm playing people more in-line with my skill at the game, which makes it a lot more fun.

I'm disappointed at my recent string of losses.. but I'm still having a lot of fun with the game.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I think we're in different skill levels, with me being weaker at the game, so your opinion probably means more than mine does.

In the class I'm playing in, that one unit seems much more dangerous than the other early/mid game units.. which indicates to me an imbalance. [/QUOTE]
I'm in silver 1v1 and almost at gold 2v2, so I'm really not that good. I think I have potential, but I haven't really worked at maxing it out since I can execute complex builds but I fail miserably to easy stuff.

Anyway, how are you losing to reapers?
Usually, I only have 2 or 3 to work with, and I use them one by one. Timing is really critical and after the 3rd they usually have defense up. Most people get smart and station a couple of anti-reaper stuff next to their base. Some people get stupid and over compensate with a boatload of cannons.

The problem with reapers is that they cost 50 gas, which is a lot in early game, and it prevents you from teching. You can't beat Protoss without teching to Ghosts, and you can't beat Terran if they get a Banshee out and you don't have a port up.
 
[quote name='kainzero']
Anyway, how are you losing to reapers?
Usually, I only have 2 or 3 to work with, and I use them one by one. Timing is really critical and after the 3rd they usually have defense up. Most people get smart and station a couple of anti-reaper stuff next to their base. Some people get stupid and over compensate with a boatload of cannons.

The problem with reapers is that they cost 50 gas, which is a lot in early game, and it prevents you from teching. You can't beat Protoss without teching to Ghosts, and you can't beat Terran if they get a Banshee out and you don't have a port up.[/QUOTE]

I only lost TO reapers once, but I've been hobbled by them more than a few times despite what I see as the best possible defensive choices I could make at the time.

When i first started, I would bunker up the choke and leave my main undefended. I've changed my strategy - whether i tech or not as terran - to place a bunker at my com center; it covers me from early few-unit air hits and from reapers blowing the crap out of my peons.

Most of my complaints with reapers come from using them. It almost feels like cheating sometimes I wipe an enemy out so hard.

I've only non-trivially used ghosts in one game. I've beaten lots of protoss without them, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. I tend to use vikings a lot.. I can get 6 of them out really quickly, and have won a number of games using them.. I've been able to competently defend myself from air with them a number of times also, so they seem like a safe unit early/mid game - they're my favorite unit in any race. I may have to play around with Thors more.. they seem promising.

I'm really missing the Splash-damage ATA units, for all races. Mutalisk are a lot stronger because of that, I think. I really miss the corsair.. as far as I can tell, the phoenix is single target, costs more, and is less effective than the corsair.

RIP Corsair.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']
I'm really missing the Splash-damage ATA units, for all races. Mutalisk are a lot stronger because of that, I think. I really miss the corsair.. as far as I can tell, the phoenix is single target, costs more, and is less effective than the corsair.

RIP Corsair.[/QUOTE]
The Viking is the new Corsair?
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Anyone here want to 1v1? You guys seem to be a little cocky. I want to see how good you are really...:bouncy:[/QUOTE]

I'll at least friend you in the beta.. even if we don't play a game tonight. Battlechikn.dakkonn
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Anyone here want to 1v1? You guys seem to be a little cocky. I want to see how good you are really...:bouncy:[/QUOTE]

I'm wahaha.darrenc

edit: my stats totally just got reset
 
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[quote name='BattleChicken']I only lost TO reapers once, but I've been hobbled by them more than a few times despite what I see as the best possible defensive choices I could make at the time.

When i first started, I would bunker up the choke and leave my main undefended. I've changed my strategy - whether i tech or not as terran - to place a bunker at my com center; it covers me from early few-unit air hits and from reapers blowing the crap out of my peons.

Most of my complaints with reapers come from using them. It almost feels like cheating sometimes I wipe an enemy out so hard.[/quote]
One or two marauders patrolling the mineral line in a TvT will stop any reaper harass, no need to build a bunker.

Yesterday I played a TvT where the guy attempted to proxy 6rax fast reaper, and bunker up. I stopped it with 2 marauders, and even though I lost a ton of SCVs, Mule let me catch up. Plus, 6rax puts you so far behind, I rushed him with a reaper and 2 marauders and it was gg.

Most people don't know how to deal with reapers, which is why you end up destroying so many people. People building Zealots or Marines to counter reapers... yeah, they deserve to lose.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='DarkNessBear']Anyone here want to 1v1? You guys seem to be a little cocky. I want to see how good you are really...:bouncy:[/QUOTE]
Sure.
Let me know when you're online.
 
I had some fun games tonight. The first really fun one was a cannon rush as protoss, that i shifted to DTs. That was fun.

Second one I was terran and decided that I would win using nukes.. I made some basic barracks units and did most of the heavy lifting with two ghosts.

So much fun...
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']So.... I checked my blizzard store account to redownload warcraft III and saw that SCII beta was in there. I have no idea for how long, but apparently I'm in.

After I get acquainted with it, maybe I'll join ya'll for a match.[/QUOTE]

Blizzard really needs to accommodate the fans that check their account 5 times a day for an invite :p. I can only imagine how many invites are sitting on random accounts being unused.
 
I may have perfected my cannon rush.. I can't seem to lose when I do it. Pisses off some of the people I play against though.



 
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[quote name='BattleChicken']I may have perfected my cannon rush.. I can't seem to lose when I do it. Pisses off some of the people I play against though.



[/QUOTE]

you get into the SC2 beta and you just cannon rush noobs? There are people out there who are willing to pay good money to get into the beta you know

Maybe it's time to start learning how to actually play the game :cool:
 
Ya, you can be one of those douches that rushes to be the top of the Platinum games... and then your account gets reset. It's just fun messing around.

I've already did the Command Center with Planetary Defense lift into base before. I lost a bunch but who cares. I'll play more serious when the actual game comes out.

And I don't know HOW you won against a terran BC with the cannonrush... I beat two P's with the strat then fought a Terran and he just lifted off and started somewhere else.
 
No offense, but it pains me to see friends of mine who are quality Starcraft players and are willing to devote time learning, understanding and playing the game thoroughly but are still looking and waiting desperately for a beta key... while there are people in the beta who just "mess around" and cannon rush or planetary fortress rush all day
 
Uh, I don't do that all day. I've done it (Fortress rush) 2-3 times and have just cannon rushed for the past 4 games. And I've played way over 200. I'm sorry if I'm not doing well with your beta key you gave me... I've been playing since Feb. and there are only a few maps, it can get old non stop playing serious. Some games I just like to try different things or goof off.

Anyways, I just cannon rushed the same Terran player twice now and won both. It is fun as hell. He kept lifting off and I'd just set up cannon where his base was going.

Oh and like BC said, me and him are Silver Ranked in 2v2... and we never use any cheese tactics.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']you get into the SC2 beta and you just cannon rush noobs? There are people out there who are willing to pay good money to get into the beta you know

Maybe it's time to start learning how to actually play the game :cool:

No offense, but it pains me to see friends of mine who are quality Starcraft players and are willing to devote time learning, understanding and playing the game thoroughly but are still looking and waiting desperately for a beta key... while there are people in the beta who just "mess around" and cannon rush or planetary fortress rush all day
[/QUOTE]

I've played something like 80 games, and I've used cannons like that four or five times.

I play Random every time, so on average I have a 1/3 opportunity to do it. The truth of it is I don't even focus on one strategy until I master it - I try something different every time to explore the units and have fun with the game, which is - whether you see it that way or not - the point of playing the game.

Be careful getting off that high horse you're on.
 
how come i only have 2 downloads? you get to see me use almost every terran unit except the ghost and bc! including horrid, horrid use of the Thor! (lulz, cliff drop, then parasited)

it was also the game where i found out that the raven's PDD doesn't work against whatever those guardian things are called. also, i learned that the PDD is an air unit, so zeals/marauders/roaches/immos can't attack it...
 
[quote name='kainzero']how come i only have 2 downloads? you get to see me use almost every terran unit except the ghost and bc! including horrid, horrid use of the Thor! (lulz, cliff drop, then parasited)

it was also the game where i found out that the raven's PDD doesn't work against whatever those guardian things are called. also, i learned that the PDD is an air unit, so zeals/marauders/roaches/immos can't attack it...[/QUOTE]

Haha, I'll watch it right now. Sounds exciting!
 
[quote name='Pure Apathy']Is Blizzard still sending out keys to people who signed up for the beta?[/QUOTE]
The Mac beta's supposed to start sometime this month, but I don't know if it has or not yet, so there's that.
 
[quote name='kainzero']

look how terrible i am!
[/QUOTE]

Nice game, although I don't get why you said "look how terrible I am" trying to get support?

But it was good. Only thing I scratched my head at was when you dropped your thor near his base and then started macroing. Lol didnt you see all the infestors up there? And I don't get why the Zerg said, "Welcome dont let the door hit you on the way out"
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Nice game, although I don't get why you said "look how terrible I am" trying to get support?

But it was good. Only thing I scratched my head at was when you dropped your thor near his base and then started macroing. Lol didnt you see all the infestors up there? And I don't get why the Zerg said, "Welcome dont let the door hit you on the way out"[/QUOTE]
I feel like I didn't exploit enough timing windows and because I would constantly switch up my plan instead of committing to one. I was fairly lucky that the Zerg did not push in during my 500 tech changes but responded to every single thing... building overseers / spore crawlers when he saw banshees, building spine crawlers when he saw hellions.

The Thor was dumb. I shouldn't have built one in the first place. I forgot about the infestors too.
[quote name='Pure Apathy']Is Blizzard still sending out keys to people who signed up for the beta?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I think the next patch will see a lot more, since I feel like the game is getting close to where it wants to be and Blizz keeps hinting at expanding the beta by a lot, giving out keys like nobody's business.
 
[quote name='kainzero']
Yeah. I think the next patch will see a lot more, since I feel like the game is getting close to where it wants to be and Blizz keeps hinting at expanding the beta by a lot, giving out keys like nobody's business.[/QUOTE]

I would agree that that would make sense.

Once the unit balance is where it needs to be at, the next step is stress testing Battle.net; If that is the case, the more the merrier.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']No offense, but it pains me to see friends of mine who are quality Starcraft players and are willing to devote time learning, understanding and playing the game thoroughly but are still looking and waiting desperately for a beta key... while there are people in the beta who just "mess around" and cannon rush or planetary fortress rush all day[/QUOTE]
I've seen a couple videos where guys cannon rushed a Zerg's expo and force him to cancel it.
I thought tower rushing in WC3 was "cheap" but it turned out to be a viable strategy and continually refined. Now, I think both Human and Orc have decent tower rush strats?

I think since the beta is still young, cheese isn't quite yet defined. I watched another video of a 7rax/7ref into Reaper rush, and even though the reaper took out a ton of probes, the Protoss player was still ahead. But if you were the toss player you would probably feel like crap, and I guess that's one of the benefits of an early Reaper rush.

Isn't this how people learn though? They do a strategy constantly until it breaks down, then they continuously refine it. And to those who face the strategy, it's something to learn how to fight.

What's the difference between mocking someone who cannon rushes, and someone who 2 proxy gates?
 
This thread is slow. Are not many people in the beta still? It's sad that Mass Effect 2 (basically a shooter) has more discussions on strategies and stats than SC2..
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']This thread is slow. Are not many people in the beta still? It's sad that Mass Effect 2 (basically a shooter) has more discussions on strategies and stats than SC2..[/QUOTE]
ME2 is done already. I know a lot of people who beat it on Insanity on launch. Strats and stats are more recreational and it's more like "How many times can we beat the dead horse before it decomposes?"

It's a lot less fun to talk about that kinda stuff in SC2. I just played a game where I clearly outclassed the opponent and built around 30 PFs all over the map. I sniffed an opponent's expansion and sent 20 SCVs to build PFs and Turrets.

What else is there?

TvP: You have to play disruptive and mess up the opponent's immortal timing. If you give them standard timing, they will screw you up. Reapers are fun and annoying, but you HAVE to tech to ghosts and just... survive, then go mass air. It seems like you're especially screwed on small maps. Well, I don't want to complain or anything, and I think I just haven't figured it out, but it's definitely tough to deal with and as Terran you have to initiate all the contact and throw him off.

Also, I hate DTs.

TvZ: Playing a 3rax all-in is nice. I like being fancy with the hellion harass. It's critical to move around and keep the Zerg from teching hard, because Brood Lords are super buff and once they reach a critical mass they are impossible to stop. In my game, if the Zerg took expansions earlier, it would've been over for me.

TvT: I really hate this matchup. First of all, never build a marine first. Always build either a marauder or a reaper. If you do build a marine and they open reaper, you're going to fall behind.
After that, it's a delicate balance of drops/vikes/tanks/marines/turrets. I like it a lot less than TvT in SC1, which was more fun to play since it was really tactical with the dropships and positioning.
 
Hum.. I thought i got reset, but apparently theres a known bug about your records being missing.

Oh well.. I tried to redo my placement for 1v1 and had about the worst luck imaginable, and wound up as copper. I thought i would be stuck there for a while.. but I decimated my opponent my first copper game and it ranked me up to bronze; which was where I was before.. I played a second game, and rape-stoved the enemy and it upped me to Silver.

I was in the middle of the game in the silver ranking, where I had cut him off from expanding at the very beginning.. but then made an error and lost part of my main to mutalisk.. I still think I could have won the game, but then SC2 locked up, and along with it locked up my PC. When I attempted to log back in, It said "Unable to log in as (null).(null), please try another character".. So who knows if any of that'll stick when it comes back up.

Not that it matters, with a DB reset coming this week, mind you.
 
I find that when I seem to be dominating, I get lazy and wind up sitting on a ton of minerals and gas.. and then when the enemy counters whatever I had them pinned with, I have no units to play with to retain that advantage...

The PvZ game above where I was getting hit with muta is a perfect example - when the muta flew in I was sitting on something like 1200 minerals. I was pumping out immortals and had two expands running.. but even so: My economy wasn't being strained by my unit production, so I should have made some starports and made phoenix or something.

One thing that seems to screw me over every time I play TvZ is when the zerg fast expands. Once I catch them, its often too late for me to stop them - I should make more marauders at the start, I think.. I tend to start with a marine or two, which is handy for initial D, but not effective unless I have 10 of them. Marauder deal higher building damage, so taking out the sunkens should be easier I think.

My Protoss game seems the strongest so far.. I've taken to setting up my unit production outside the base... sometimes i lead off with a cannon or two in order to repel early zerglings, marines, or zealots. When I do that, I'm usually pretty sure the enemy can't expand, though I need to worry about air units and/or drops.. THAT is the part I haven't found my groove in yet.

My zerg game is all over the place - I need to practice with them a bit more.. I tend to 10, pool, 10, OL every time.. there has to be a smarter way for me to lead off that gives me a stronger economy for doing an early expand.
 
Yea TvT is annoying. I just lost one because I didn't realize my opponent was just amassing BC's. I'm thinking of posting the Replay just to get some tips (besides the obvious scout out his base more... lol).
 
Wow, that was awesome just did a 2v1. My teamate got rushed (and he was a noob) in the first 5 minutes of the game. And I some how survived for ~40 minutes with my hidden base (on the island) and kicked their ass with a slow trickle of DTs and then finishing it off with a bunch of carriers.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I find that when I seem to be dominating, I get lazy and wind up sitting on a ton of minerals and gas.. and then when the enemy counters whatever I had them pinned with, I have no units to play with to retain that advantage... [/quote]
I had this problem too.
Anytime I stockpile too many minerals, I start going nuts with unit production buildings. It's not unknown for me to build 8 barracks.
I think I expand way too slowly though. When I watch old replays, I'll look at my unit count and see like, 60 SCVs and have only my natural.


The PvZ game above where I was getting hit with muta is a perfect example - when the muta flew in I was sitting on something like 1200 minerals. I was pumping out immortals and had two expands running.. but even so: My economy wasn't being strained by my unit production, so I should have made some starports and made phoenix or something.
One thing that seems to screw me over every time I play TvZ is when the zerg fast expands. Once I catch them, its often too late for me to stop them - I should make more marauders at the start, I think.. I tend to start with a marine or two, which is handy for initial D, but not effective unless I have 10 of them. Marauder deal higher building damage, so taking out the sunkens should be easier I think.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how to deal it with either. I tend to lose to mass lings.
However, I like the strategy I used in that replay. Hellion harass into banshee to snipe the queen and force anti-air, then 3M ball + Raven + Tank.
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Yea TvT is annoying. I just lost one because I didn't realize my opponent was just amassing BC's. I'm thinking of posting the Replay just to get some tips (besides the obvious scout out his base more... lol).[/QUOTE]
I find that in TvT, it's easy to expand to a second base. Once you get a second OC up, using all the energy on mules is kind of a waste unless you can expand like mad. I always find myself having around 600-800 more minerals than gas, and what am I gonna do with that? More marines and more hellions? You can at least afford to scan in the midgame.
Also, with TvT, getting early air is essential, and it's not too costly to sac a viking to see their base.
 
Even with Blizzard giving away a boat load of keys on Facebook, I still haven't managed to get one. The batches of 20 codes they post are gone in seconds. =\
 
Every time I log on to my battle.net account, I get that momentary bit of "Holy shit!"

Until I realize, no, that extra game there is the World of Warcraft trial.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Every time I log on to my battle.net account, I get that momentary bit of "Holy shit!"

Until I realize, no, that extra game there is the World of Warcraft trial.[/QUOTE]

You too, huh? I hate WoW even more now.
 
[quote name='DarkRider23']You too, huh? I hate WoW even more now.[/QUOTE]
+1 more on that

Teamliquid had a scavenger hunt yesterday for 25 keys. Hopefully they do something similar with the 500 as it seems to be the most fair.
 
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if you got two vikings, two siege tanks, and put them next to a Thor.
Then if you call down a MULE and play some rockin 90's music, it would transform into VolThorn!
 
I think something like the Terratron would be cool though. They don't have that many units that combine together to form something, only the Archon right?
 
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