Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Gen. Discussion & Info

[quote name='KingBroly']
If it's not online, it could wake Nintendo up about their online service.[/quote]

The only thing thats going to wake Nintendo up about their online service is one of their competitors making money.
 
the most important art being is if they can pull off the online lag free. With 4 players and so much action at a fast pace I'm a little worried if they can pull this off smoothly.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']how exactly can you have any service on the internet at all without lag[/QUOTE]

Having dedicated servers set up. I don't know how the shit works, but apparently, Warhawk, the ps3 online shooter runs 16 players on gigantic maps with no lag what so ever. It just comes down to having the technology and the means to do so.
 
I assure you it takes time for information to get from those servers to your house. No matter how miniscule, its there. Its not something you'd notice until you try to hit a move with a single frame window and realize you cant.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I assure you it takes time for information to get from those servers to your house. No matter how miniscule, its there. Its not something you'd notice until you try to hit a move with a single frame window and realize you cant.[/QUOTE]

ya it's there, but making it not noticeable is the trick.
 
This game is still three months from release, that's why there is no rating. As for online, same thing. It would not come until the actual rating came, which will be closer to release. Will it be there? I'd imagine so, oddly enough. We shall see.
 
Online just seems like the right thing to do. this is nintendo's one chance to get onto the online wagon, if they don't they will never get another chance.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I would say fake cover art. It looks to good to be from Nintendo. I'm expecting something three shades more ass-ish.[/quote]

Actually, artistically speaking, it's pretty, but not ideal for a game case. I don't doubt that it has a high probability of being the real deal, but still...it could be a bit better.

The case is too crowded. There are a lot of characters on it, which shows off the roster, but that's what the back of the case is for. Now, granted, the game has a pretty major hype machine going for it, but that doesn't change the main purpose of its cover art: to attract a prospective buyer who's only taking a cursory glance through the Wii aisle (not that any store really has a full aisle filled with Wii products, but, you know, the Wii games section).

The cover art doesn't clearly display what the game's about. Is it a fighting game? An platformer/adventure game? An RPG? A puzzle game? A Pokemon Snap-style game? How should the average uninformed consumer know? All that a gamer who hasn't heard the hype would be able to determine that it has Nintendo characters. Or worse, the average casual gamer, who might not have ever even seen most of those characters before (besides Mario, practically everone's seen Mario before), might wonder who all of those guys are.

Yes, it is a pretty good-looking case, and I'd be proud to display that on my shelf. It's some good art, I totally agree. But, really, the main function of a case is not to display great art, as this does. It's to draw the consumer's attention. And if you aren't aware of the series' awesome history, then the case doesn't really do that.

Look at the SSBM case:

Super-Smash-Bros-Melee.jpg


It pretty clearly displays what the game is about. It may not look as good, but it gets the job done. It shows Mario, Zelda and Pikachu, three of the most famous characters in the game (um, and Bowser) duking it out. This is obviously a game where those characters beat the snot out of each other. Sounds fun! The art isn't as pretty, but if a scene similar to this one was redone in the new art style it would pretty darn good.

Also, there's one minor detail that leads me to believe this might not be that acutal final case design: it doesn't showcase Solid Snake.

They have Solid Snake on the roster; that's a big draw. It's just not like the Big N to not flaunt that.

My conclusion: I think that's a concept case or mock-up, not the final design. It wouldn't really be a bad case, but I don't think it's a finished product.
 
Super minimal lag would be fine with this game.
It's supposed to be fun, and 4 players just smashing and throwing crap around would be fun no matter how you shake it.
 
[quote name='Killer Rabbit']
Look at the SSBM case:

Super-Smash-Bros-Melee.jpg


It pretty clearly displays what the game is about. It may not look as good, but it gets the job done. It shows Mario, Zelda and Pikachu, three of the most famous characters in the game (um, and Bowser) duking it out. [/QUOTE]

FOR SHAME!! :shock:
 
[quote name='Killer Rabbit']
It pretty clearly displays what the game is about. It may not look as good, but it gets the job done. It shows Mario, Zelda and Pikachu, three of the most famous characters in the game (um, and Bowser) duking it out. This is obviously a game where those characters beat the snot out of each other. Sounds fun! The art isn't as pretty, but if a scene similar to this one was redone in the new art style it would pretty darn good. [/QUOTE]
DOUBLE SHAME!
 
I call shenanigans on the cover art, only because I guaran-damn-tee that if Samus is on the cover, it won't be the one in the Varia Suit.
 
Meta Knight. I think this is a worse update than Diddy's 2/4 special moves. This makes the best update so far Pit's Descent. Ugh. I doubt they'll pop up another new comer this week so the saving grace for me would be either a final smash or a new cool item. Melee had two new adventure modes. If they pull out a new adv mode that would probably blow out the entire month for me.
===
[quote name='mr ryles']still RP, but unless there is a voice chat system I don't think the experience would change.[/quote]just because it was designed not to change doesn't mean it won't change. Any online game has to have it because putting the game online introduces a variable the developer can't account for (tea-bagging anyone?). The creativity of the entire gaming population. Who knows what bug they'll find.[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I assure you it takes time for information to get from those servers to your house. No matter how miniscule, its there. Its not something you'd notice until you try to hit a move with a single frame window and realize you cant.[/quote]I'm all for correctness but way to miss the boat on that one DMK. Do we really have to distinguish functional lag like that.[quote name='Killer Rabbit']It shows Mario, Zelda and Pikachu, three of the most famous characters in the game[/quote] ::Halo Announcer Voice:: TRIPLE SHAME
 
Definitely fake cover art. Why would they only have characters shown so far and none of the surprising ones? I'd think they'd at least have Snake on the cover somewhere and probably zero suit samus. They'll also probably model it off the old cover more.
 
Is it just me, or does Meta Knight seem like a creative meeting gone horribly wrong?

"Okay, so we've got this new character...a Kirby villain, but something with....you know, pop."

"He's Kirby....but blue! Dark blue! Cause he's bad!"

"And a mask to make him extra scary!"

"Wait, if he's evil, shouldn't he have horns?"

"Only if we can put some sort of protective armor on them."

"I like the way you think. More is better, right?"

"Ooh...Let's give him a cape. And boots."

"And a big cowl!"

"Are you gay, Bob?"

"No! I just think a cowl is, you know, really intimidating."

"Alright, fine. The cowl stays. But we had better give him a sword to make him more masculine. And put lots of little swords coming off the main sword just to be safe."

"Got it."

"Boy, that's a lot of stuff. He's going to be pretty heavy. How's he going to fly?"

"BAT WINGS!!!"


:roll:
 
I think what happened is they chopped off Black Mage's head and handed him a sword and bat wings.

Oh. And feet.

Also, I can't be the only one who read quickly and saw "cow" up there.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']we really have to distinguish functional lag like that.[/quote]

Not generally, unless we're talking about the single frame accuracy involved in tournament level play.

As I've said before, there are no fighting games that are online out of the box that are competitive either online OR offline.

Games like Street Fighter were competitive FIRST, and then online was added in later releases.
 
[quote name='dallow']Super minimal lag would be fine with this game.
It's supposed to be fun, and 4 players just smashing and throwing crap around would be fun no matter how you shake it.[/QUOTE]

Yep, it's a casual party game-esque fighter, though some take it more seriously than that.

I don't think most play Smash Bros competively enough to care about the 1 frame counters you'd find in a Virtua Fighter game for instance (though I'm sure some do).

It's not a game aimed at hardcore fighting game fans/tournament players, so again, minimal lag would be fine. It really needs online play for me, as none of my gaming friends are very into fighting games (much less a cutesy one like this) so I really need online to extend the play to make it worth $50 to me.
 
[quote name='Killer Rabbit']
It pretty clearly displays what the game is about. It may not look as good, but it gets the job done. [/QUOTE]

While I think it is fake too (looks too nice for a Nintendo cover) I wouldn't put to much behind the above reasoning.

Melee sold something like 6 million copies on the GC (and they may be US only, can't tell from the Wiki page that came up in google) so the series has plenty of name recognition. Thus it's not so important for the cover art to clearly depict the gameplay as much as it was with the first 2 games.
 
I wish it were only as simple as "you dont have to play it online if you dont want to"

I would immediately drop all my objections to the game being online if Sakurai could issue a statement in an interview or something, to the effect of: We took the core game to 100% completion before we looked at the online game, and the core game was not adjusted in any way to make it work online.

On second thought, I would also accept: It was built to be online from the beginning, but the team working on the online component had no input on the development of the core game, and could only accept what we gave them to work with.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Why would they only have characters shown so far and none of the surprising ones? I'd think they'd at least have Snake on the cover somewhere and probably zero suit samus. They'll also probably model it off the old cover more.[/quote]I disagree with the reasoning. I don't think they need to put all the characters on it like they did last time. Especially ZSS, ZSS is basically an unlockable character like Shiek. Now that we know that I'll be money she won't be on the cover. As for the rest of the characters they can go on the back. The N64 cover only had 6 of the 8 starting characters on it.[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']As I've said before, there are no fighting games that are online out of the box that are competitive either online OR offline.[/quote]It's difficult to respond to that because your point is among another things extremely valid. On one hand there will be no real tournement play online. The real tourneys are going to be head to head. On the other hand taht descriminates against t-level players to play online. I should think then if you're at that level and the issues of lag matter to you then the existance or lack of online play wouldn't matter to you one way or the other as you'll not be able to use it to your satisfaction.

E: Well if you fear the core game will suffer developmentwise from online 'distraction' I can understand that but personally I wouldn't think online dev would have any effect on the core gameplay. (Argument 2).
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I wish it were only as simple as "you dont have to play it online if you dont want to"

I would immediately drop all my objections to the game being online if Sakurai could issue a statement in an interview or something, to the effect of: We took the core game to 100% completion before we looked at the online game, and the core game was not adjusted in any way to make it work online.

On second thought, I would also accept: It was built to be online from the beginning, but the team working on the online component had no input on the development of the core game, and could only accept what we gave them to work with.[/QUOTE]


Dude. It's a fighting game. Part of a fighting game (arguably the main part) is multiplayer.

Online multiplayer works no different that local, they just have to build in online capabilities. If anything, going by past online fighting games, the local is optimized and the online suffers a bit sometimes from lag--making it clear that the online play is what gets tacked on and that local play was the main focus.

If online was the main focus, you'd see games developed with less precise timing requirments both on and offline to get around the lag.

But I know no one will ever convince you that online gaming, HD graphics and everything else next-gen doesn't suck. You should just stick to playing your NES on yoru 13" black and white TV in your cave and quit your bitching.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']If anything, going by past online fighting games, the local is optimized and the online suffers a bit sometimes from lag--making it clear that the online play is what gets tacked on and that local play was the main focus.[/quote]

And just what games would those be? Surely you dont mean DOA and Mortal Kombat?
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']And just what games would those be? Surely you dont mean DOA and Mortal Kombat?[/QUOTE]

Yes, DOA was quite laggy online and teh offline mode felt the same as previous games in the series to me. MK has always sucked, so I never played any of the newer ones that had online. The online street fighter 2 games on XBLA felt laggy online as well, like they hadn't been changed much if at all to deal with lag issues.

At any rate, why don't you at least fucking wait until the game is out before doing all this repeated bitching and moaning about how online play will ruin the single player/local multiplayer experience.

We all know Nintendo doesn't give two fucking shits about online play (no wonder you're all over Mario's knob) so I think we can be pretty sure that any online play in Smash Bros will have been the last thing the put any effort into.
 
A good reason in which I would accept Smash Bros. not being online would be Sakurai saying 'Nintendo's online service sucks, and I'm not putting this game on a sucky service'.

I think that'd be the real reason it wouldn't be online. Plus, it makes Iwata look shameful and without honor since he said in 05 it'd have online. And we all know a Japanese man without honor isn't a Japanese man at all.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']A good reason in which I would accept Smash Bros. not being online would be Sakurai saying 'Nintendo's online service sucks, and I'm not putting this game on a sucky service'.

I think that'd be the real reason it wouldn't be online. Plus, it makes Iwata look shameful and without honor since he said in 05 it'd have online. And we all know a Japanese man without honor isn't a Japanese man at all.[/QUOTE]


Agreed, that would be not only acceptable, but a pleasant kick in the nuts to Nintendo.

But in reality, they just need to deliver on online play. Nintendo has few franchises that I'd want to see online, and this one probably tops the list. We could get some kick ass CAG tourney's going on this one for sure.
 
Is this the argument where it's essentially boiling down to "the fans think Nintendo should have online like XBL and they don't so Nintendo sucks" vs "I'm not going to listen to you when you tell me that it costs money to put stuff online, and Nintendo is crazy for not wanting to spend billions on servers and maintenance to satisfy me" ?

Looks like it, but I'm not paying enough attention to really tell.

Also, dmaul needs to get off the whole "oh if you disagree with me it's because you're all over Nintendo's nuts" thing. That's getting old.
 
Oh it's not anyone who just disagrees with me, just the blind fanboys like DMK and yourself.

Welcome to the ignore list, Mr. Chief Mario Knob Slobberer. I'll go ahead and throw your fluff boy DMK on there as well.

It's only fun discussing gaming with people who can see both sides of the coin.
 
[quote name='Strell']Man I love being right all the time.

Someone quote me just so dumbmaul can see it. That would be grand.[/quote]

Done. (just for fun dmaul)
 
[quote name='ihadFG']Done. (just for fun dmaul)[/QUOTE]

No worries my friend. Always amusing to see Strell's attempts at humorous insults. :D
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Oh it's not anyone who just disagrees with me, just the blind fanboys like DMK and yourself.

Welcome to the ignore list, Mr. Chief Mario Knob Slobberer. I'll go ahead and throw your fluff boy DMK on there as well.

It's only fun discussing gaming with people who can see both sides of the coin.[/quote] I can't breath because I'm choking on all the irony.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Oh it's not anyone who just disagrees with me, just the blind fanboys like DMK and yourself.

Welcome to the ignore list, Mr. Chief Mario Knob Slobberer. I'll go ahead and throw your fluff boy DMK on there as well.

It's only fun discussing gaming with people who can see both sides of the coin.[/quote] I can't breath because I'm choking on all the irony. Dmaul, you're going to miss everything cool in life and die angry.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I can't breath because I'm choking on all the irony. Dmaul, you're going to miss everything cool in life and die angry.[/QUOTE]

No irony there. I can't stand people who can see no wrong with their console of choice, or people on the other side who are blind haters who can see no good in the consoles they don't support.

I love many things about Nintendo and the Wii, and there are many things I don't like about the company and the consoles--that's seeing both sides of the coin and being able to discuss gaming with an open mind.

And I have quite a full and vibrant life, and seldom get angry over anything.......... much less crap posted on a internet board. :D Life's far to short for that.
 
[quote name='Strell']Is this the argument where it's essentially boiling down to "the fans think Nintendo should have online like XBL and they don't so Nintendo sucks" vs "I'm not going to listen to you when you tell me that it costs money to put stuff online, and Nintendo is crazy for not wanting to spend billions on servers and maintenance to satisfy me" ?[/quote]I'm not saying Nintendo has to have XBL but the current service sucks. From the little I've experienced and what I've seen/heard/read it's basically an console version of what the DS has to work with. On a portable system that's one thing but on a console I'd like a little more interactivity with my friends. I'd rather them not bother with online than make it overly cumbersome.

I'm a realist I have an inkling of the costs it would require to bump the system up to 'tolerable' levels and i think eventually this will happen. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't mind SmashBros being delayed another year. I don't see SB4 coming out during the lifetime of the Wii and if in a year and half Wii gets cool online well.. that would just kinda suck.
 
I already stole your hose and made a hose cake out of it, which is also called a hostry.

Threaten me all you want, burgerlad.

Wolfkin or whatever, I'll have to give an appropriate response when I have some more time.
 
[quote name='Strell']I already stole your hose and made a hose cake out of it, which is also called a hostry.

Threaten me all you want, burgerlad.

Wolfkin or whatever, I'll have to give an appropriate response when I have some more time.[/QUOTE]



dude wtf are you talking about, you all need to take out your small wangs show them to each other, see who's got the smallest and shut the hell up, if you arent talking about smash get the FOOK out of the thread.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']dude wtf are you talking about, you all need to take out your small wangs show them to each other, see who's got the smallest and shut the hell up, if you arent talking about smash get the FOOK out of the thread.[/QUOTE]

Look. If we are going to do that, I'm going to need a 16 wheeler moving truck. I don't have one of those handy, and I'm not footing the bill for one. So unless you can pay up for that, shaddappa you face.

Now then. To discuss important matters in hand.

Sonic totally sucks and doesn't need to be in Brawl.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']"dude wtf are you talking about"
and then
"you all need to take out your small wangs show them to each other, see who's got the smallest and shut the hell up, if you arent talking about smash get the FOOK out of the thread."[/quote]

I found this ironic.
 
eww.. a sonic hater. I thought those were just a myth. know who sucks? MetaKnight for having an update that doesn't give any new information. could have at least come with a move set.
 
[quote name='Strell']I am absolutely astounded by the number of people in this thread taking me seriously today.[/quote]I thought you were serious all the time?

Also, we need a Tetris assist trophy. You grab it, and Tetris blocks come flying from the sky to crush those in the way. Think of them as a bunch of Snorlaxes just flying down.
 
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