Supreme Court rules against racial discrimination in suprisingly close vote

I looked at the report just now.

Call me naive, but if Gates was initially polite none of this would have happened. From the report, as soon as the officer arrived Gates was saying all sorts of things to complicate the matter. He may have feel justified in doing so because of the pattern of racism in the area but again, it is never a good idea to yell at the police.

You can't really determine if the cop was indeed profiling him for being black. The reason you can't confirm this is because of Gates initial actions. If Gates was polite and the result was still the same then you can 100% say that this cop sucks - but this situation is murky.

Saying that data shows a pattern of racist behavior among cops only gives you really good reason to investigate this particular officer (and this particular case) closely. It does not mean he auto-racist.

The cop did seem to press the matter too much and took the insults somewhat personally. Who wouldn't be angry if someone called your boss and said you were racist?

He should have walked away but did not. I am going to say that he did not walk away because Gates was being an ass - not because he wanted to nail Gates for being black. It is not much better but I really don't think this was based only on race.


EDIT: After reading Gates' side of things it seems like the original caller is the racist one!
 
Here's a thought - if the cop had let some guy rob Gates' house, we'd be reading a story about how the cops don't protect the black community like they do the white community...
 
^No. We aren't bitching because the cops showed up. We are bitching because they arrested him after he provided identification proving it was his house.

So, what if he was verbally being a dick? It's his property. He has the right to protest. Which, like I said, the prosecutors knew. Hence, why they dropped the charges. Proving the cop was wrong. End of story.
 
after reading gates' side, the police report, and the story. i dont think either of them are telling the whole truth, i do think they were both out of line, but the cop is the one who took it too far. reading the police report it almost sounds like he did it because there were other cops watching (this is how you handle rabble!).
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i dont think either of them are telling the whole truth[/QUOTE]

To show I agree with this:

HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
Click to expand...

capt.0fb799e524bc46ddab7ba290713aec51.aptopix_harvard_scholar_disorderly_ny133.jpg


(yes, it's just a photo, and a photo can be misleading, as ramstoria's sig shows - but he's certainly not as demure as he suggests)
 
The fantastic Lawrence Bobo chimes in as well:

hat I do know with certainty is that the officer, even by his own written report, understood that he was dealing with a lawful resident of the house when he made the arrest. That same report makes it clear that at the time of the arrest, the officer was no longer concerned about the report of a “burglary in progress” involving “two black males.” No, by this point we’re talking about something else entirely.
Click to expand...

Perfectly and succinctly stated.
 
Who put in the call? I haven't seen much on that person's side of the story. Or where this second black male comes from. And as situations change, the attitude of cops change. More often than not it turns sour.

Also, you can yell no matter what you have. It just depends on what actually comes out and how much it hurts.
 
The white police sergeant accused of racial profiling after he arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his home was hand-picked by a black police commissioner to teach recruits about avoiding racial profiling. Friends and fellow officers — black and white — say Sgt. James Crowley is a principled police officer and family man who is being unfairly described as racist.
"If people are looking for a guy who's abusive or arrogant, they got the wrong guy," said Andy Meyer, of Natick, who has vacationed with Crowley, coached youth sports with him and is his teammate on a men's softball team. "This is not a racist, rogue cop. This is a fine, upstanding man. And if every cop in the world were like him, it would be a better place."
Gates accused the 11-year department veteran of being an unyielding, race-baiting authoritarian after Crowley arrested and charged him with disorderly conduct last week.
Crowley confronted Gates in his home after a woman passing by summoned police for a possible burglary. The sergeant said he arrested Gates after the scholar repeatedly accused him of racism and made derogatory remarks about his mother, allegations the professor challenges. Gates has labeled Crowley a "rogue cop," demanded an apology and said he may sue the police department.
Click to expand...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j4S-r9G0m8HEq4JAFUw7_epFRb9QD99KGKNG4
 
[quote name='HowStern']^No. We aren't bitching because the cops showed up. We are bitching because they arrested him after he provided identification proving it was his house.

So, what if he was verbally being a dick? It's his property. He has the right to protest. Which, like I said, the prosecutors knew. Hence, why they dropped the charges. Proving the cop was wrong. End of story.[/QUOTE]
Ya because cops aren't dicks to white people who piss them off.:roll:
 
Not in regards to this individual case, but the prosecution dropping charges against someone doesn't mean that someone wasn't in the wrong - at all.
 
I got my clock cleaned by my wife this morning on this one. I was arguing that both of them were idiots but it seemed like the prof was the bigger jerk for screaming racism without solid foundation. She countered that in the situation, one of them was required to act as a professional and one was not. One of them was supposed to be someone that trained others in handling situations like that. One of them should have clearly understood the situation as it unfolded, as irrational citizens is the nature of the job. But to incarcerate this man for screaming stupidity in his own house is insanity.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Who put in the call? I haven't seen much on that person's side of the story. Or where this second black male comes from. And as situations change, the attitude of cops change. More often than not it turns sour.

Also, you can yell no matter what you have. It just depends on what actually comes out and how much it hurts.[/QUOTE]

didnt you read the story? it was a white woman form the neighborhood. the 2nd guy was gates' driver, hes the one that was trying to open the door forcefully using his shoulder. according to gates the lock was damaged while he was on vacation. the woman saw this and called police.
 
So it turns out it was just a passer-by. The original report made it seem like a neighbor called the cops. I don't think we'll ever get the truth in this event. Both seem to be in the wrong.

I still think the cop should've taken the high road and just walked out. If cops came investigating a burglary of my own home and I'm the only one walking around, I'd be super pissed too.
 
The cops say they have audio of the event. That'd be helpful. Comparing the actual events to the story from both sides would be interesting.
 
[quote name='speedracer']The cops say they have audio of the event. That'd be helpful. Comparing the actual events to the story from both sides would be interesting.[/QUOTE]

i was just reading about that. youd figure theyd eventually release it, especially if its favorable to the cop.
 
They would release it ONLY if it was favorable to the cop. Even then, it's obvious Gates didn't do anything illegal in the tape. If he broke a law and they had evidence, those charge would still be pending. Embarassing, probably. Illegal, probably not.
 
I'm curious what those of you who think Crowley is solely in the right have to say about Bobo's take on events. That Crowley arrested Gates after it was determined that the police were no longer concerned about a B&E.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I got my clock cleaned by my wife this morning on this one. I was arguing that both of them were idiots but it seemed like the prof was the bigger jerk for screaming racism without solid foundation. She countered that in the situation, one of them was required to act as a professional and one was not. One of them was supposed to be someone that trained others in handling situations like that. One of them should have clearly understood the situation as it unfolded, as irrational citizens is the nature of the job. But to incarcerate this man for screaming stupidity in his own house is insanity.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is really trying to defend the officer's decision to arrest Gates - although there are plenty that understand that picking a verbal fight with a cop is a stupid idea. Going just by the second hand accounts of the events, I think most of us will agree that the officer should have just walked away.

HOWEVER - the issue at hand (which seems to be getting away) is if the cop's reaction was because of this man's race. Personally, I don't think it is. Again, this is just going by second hand accounts, but it seems to me that anyone who would respond to a cop in this manner would be looking at being handcuffed - regardless of race.

Judging by what's been said, the officer acted in the wrong. Gates acted like an ass. They both owe each other an apology. Hugs and make up.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm curious what those of you who think Crowley is solely in the right have to say about Bobo's take on events. That Crowley arrested Gates after it was determined that the police were no longer concerned about a B&E.[/QUOTE]

To be fair the cop says he didn't know what he was dealing with.

He didn't know if he was dealing with an upset man whose house had been broken into by a burgler, or a man who had broken the lock on his own house. Since people don't generally force open their own doors, and Gates appeared too slight to be able to bust the door in himself, you could forgive the officer for playing it safe and wanting to talk rationally with Gates (turns out after the dust has cleared we know Gate's driver popped the lock, but how was the officer to know that at the time)

If Gates yelled the policeman out of the house and later a burgler hiding upstairs murdered Gates, then the officer would be facing down a lawsuit.

Knowing what we do now about the officer, I imagine the officer was trying to calm Gates down so he could get the full story and was getting nothing but outbursts of rage and cursing. When Gates pursues the officer through the door, knowing the law Crowley pulls out the cuffs in a gamble that the sight of them will calm the man before the situation really escalates out-of-control. Unforturnately this only further enrages Gates and having escalated to cuffs Gates feels compelled to follow through.

This sounds more like an academic vs cop issue.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm curious what those of you who think Crowley is solely in the right have to say about Bobo's take on events. That Crowley arrested Gates after it was determined that the police were no longer concerned about a B&E.[/QUOTE]

edit: unnecessary post, i misread what you said.

[quote name='mykevermin']

(yes, it's just a photo, and a photo can be misleading, as ramstoria's sig shows - but he's certainly not as demure as he suggests)[/QUOTE]

misleading AND hilarious
 
It is indeed funny. And a nice ass, too.

[quote name='camoor']To be fair the cop says he didn't know what he was dealing with.

He didn't know if he was dealing with an upset man whose house had been broken into by a burgler, or a man who had broken the lock on his own house. Since people don't generally force open their own doors, and Gates appeared too slight to be able to bust the door in himself, you could forgive the officer for playing it safe and wanting to talk rationally with Gates (turns out after the dust has cleared we know Gate's driver popped the lock, but how was the officer to know that at the time)

If Gates yelled the policeman out of the house and later a burgler hiding upstairs murdered Gates, then the officer would be facing down a lawsuit.

Knowing what we do now about the officer, I imagine the officer was trying to calm Gates down so he could get the full story and was getting nothing but outbursts of rage and cursing. When Gates pursues the officer through the door, knowing the law Crowley pulls out the cuffs in a gamble that the sight of them will calm the man before the situation really escalates out-of-control. Unforturnately this only further enrages Gates and having escalated to cuffs Gates feels compelled to follow through.

This sounds more like an academic vs cop issue.[/QUOTE]

So what it sounds like you're saying is that Crowley arrested Gates for disorderly in order to protect Gates. A noble arrest, then.

I know that's the exact same frame I heard from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh today - but I wasn't sure I thought even they believed it. Let alone you.
 
No, it's sickening. It's sickening that people can't combat the reality of consistent historical patterns of racial profiling, of racial discrimination, and of differential treatment of blacks by the police. It's sickening that people destroy these patterns by justifying the actions of the police. It's sickening that we make excuses for Gates' arrest. It's sickening that we make justifications for the police actions.

It's sickening that we defend the police, and take them on their word.

It's sickening that our collective covering of ears and shouting "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" in the face of blatant racism is what permeates the news cycle. That we consider the police action plausible, or even noble.

It's sickening that we'll talk about this, and never let the names of Dexter Brown or Omar J Edwards cross our lips. Dead black cops killed at the hands of other cops is not something we talk about.

We're scared to death to confront the reality of racism, but collectively willing to talk about how it doesn't exist, or to malign the entire characters of civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, instead of calmly sitting back and thinking "maybe, somewhere, some time, at some point, they have got it right."

We're too busy trying to deny the incredibly racist society we live in while it's right in front of us all the time. That's fucking sickening, and not the slightest bit entertaining.
 
Please tell me you aren't a Jackson/Sharpton fan. Those guys use stuff like this to get their names in the headlines, they don't give a damn about anyone else. Even Martin Luther King Jr. had a falling out with Jackson because he said Jackson used the civil rights movement to promote himself.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So what it sounds like you're saying is that Crowley arrested Gates for disorderly in order to protect Gates. A noble arrest, then.

I know that's the exact same frame I heard from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh today - but I wasn't sure I thought even they believed it. Let alone you.[/QUOTE]

No, I cribbed my notes from the MSNBC morning show. ;)

Seriously though, that's a vast oversimplification and distortion of what I said. I was portraying the scenario I can see going down, knowing that this officer has been lauded by fellow law enforcement of all stripes for his equinanimous treatment of citizens and was even hand-picked to teach recruits on how to avoid racial profiling. That we should weigh the police officer's version of events against Gates version of events. That Gates, a man who approached a police officer refusing to cooperate, cursing him, and denegrating his mother got more second chances then any other person in his position would get in my city doesn't enter into it.

I guess that doesn't count because it's data that flies in the face of your version of what went down, and after all Gates is the only one we should listen to being that he is a professor.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Please tell me you aren't a Jackson/Sharpton fan. Those guys use stuff like this to get their names in the headlines, they don't give a damn about anyone else. Even Martin Luther King Jr. had a falling out with Jackson because he said Jackson used the civil rights movement to promote himself.[/QUOTE]

You prove my point.

There's not a dichotomy here. There's no "I agree with everything all of them say all of the time" at work in what I'm saying. OTOH, you have shown that in spite of this, the opposite end of the spectrum does exist, and even persists. The "don't believe anything these uppity negroes have to say - they're always up to no good, they're the ones causing trouble, they're the ones who perpetuate racism" claim.

Acknowledging that they have valid points is not akin to hanging on every word they say. Forgive me if I live in a nuanced world where I take into consideration the points being made, as opposed to flippantly disregarding those who make those claims.

Many of you, speaking generally, seem to show something I'm quite amazed by; that you'll never get off your ass to condemn racism in action, but you'll be the first in line to fight those who do get off their asses.

White privilege.

camoor, you're trying to recreate events to satisfy some nonsensical concept of even-handedness - or to justify Gates' arrest because he was an uppity $$$$er that didn't know his place in deferring to a police officer. your scenario, as you even call it, is full of conjecture. we may disgree, but at least I'm not the one making up hypotheticals to excuse one of the people.

I point out that Gates' arrest had zero to do with the burglary and occurred well after the police had established that Gates was, in fact, the proper legal resident of this house. Facts corroborated by all reports and refuted by none of them. You have to extrapolate Crowley's past to make assumptions about how he behaved on this night in particular, in order to weave your fantasy that makes the victim the assailant.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']No, it's sickening. It's sickening that people can't combat the reality of consistent historical patterns of racial profiling, of racial discrimination, and of differential treatment of blacks by the police. It's sickening that people destroy these patterns by justifying the actions of the police. It's sickening that we make excuses for Gates' arrest. It's sickening that we make justifications for the police actions.

It's sickening that we defend the police, and take them on their word.

It's sickening that our collective covering of ears and shouting "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" in the face of blatant racism is what permeates the news cycle. That we consider the police action plausible, or even noble.

It's sickening that we'll talk about this, and never let the names of Dexter Brown or Omar J Edwards cross our lips. Dead black cops killed at the hands of other cops is not something we talk about.

We're scared to death to confront the reality of racism, but collectively willing to talk about how it doesn't exist, or to malign the entire characters of civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, instead of calmly sitting back and thinking "maybe, somewhere, some time, at some point, they have got it right."

We're too busy trying to deny the incredibly racist society we live in while it's right in front of us all the time. That's fucking sickening, and not the slightest bit entertaining.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I agree that it's sickening, but it just gets more outlandish as it goes on, like almost any debate, but especially race. Then compound the situation with bad remarks, "apologies" and whatnot, and you've got a massive trainwreck on your hands. And as we all know, our society loves to standby and look on at the horror of the situation, whether it be a car accident or something much more grave.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You prove my point.

There's not a dichotomy here. There's no "I agree with everything all of them say all of the time" at work in what I'm saying. OTOH, you have shown that in spite of this, the opposite end of the spectrum does exist, and even persists. The "don't believe anything these uppity negroes have to say - they're always up to no good, they're the ones causing trouble, they're the ones who perpetuate racism" claim.

Acknowledging that they have valid points is not akin to hanging on every word they say. Forgive me if I live in a nuanced world where I take into consideration the points being made, as opposed to flippantly disregarding those who make those claims.

Many of you, speaking generally, seem to show something I'm quite amazed by; that you'll never get off your ass to condemn racism in action, but you'll be the first in line to fight those who do get off their asses.

White privilege.

camoor, you're trying to recreate events to satisfy some nonsensical concept of even-handedness - or to justify Gates' arrest because he was an uppity $$$$er that didn't know his place in deferring to a police officer. your scenario, as you even call it, is full of conjecture. we may disgree, but at least I'm not the one making up hypotheticals to excuse one of the people.

I point out that Gates' arrest had zero to do with the burglary and occurred well after the police had established that Gates was, in fact, the proper legal resident of this house. Facts corroborated by all reports and refuted by none of them. You have to extrapolate Crowley's past to make assumptions about how he behaved on this night in particular, in order to weave your fantasy that makes the victim the assailant.[/QUOTE]

OK Sherlock, so if you've got someone berating you, refusing to calm down, refusing to talk rationally, all you know is that it's his house, the door is busted in, and the guy clearly doesn't have the physical strength to do it - so you would automatically deduce the answer to the case of the broken lock. Hey folks, we have our very own Encyclopedia Brown! Why didn't you say so Myke, you can teach your deduction skills to law enforcement all over the country. No longer will we have to talk to people to ensure the situation is secure, we'll just pass our eyes over the scene and instantly know all there is to know!
 
^What does that have to do with him ending up being arrested for disorderly conduct?

speedracer's wife hit then nail on the head.
Like I've been trying to say. You can't get arrested for disorderly conduct in your own house for speaking your mind. He has the 1st amendment on his side. He has the right to protest. He can say anything he wants to the cop. The cop is more or less trespassing.

Oh, and I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfROUEdqUas
 
[quote name='HowStern']^What does that have to do with him ending up being arrested for disorderly conduct?

speedracer's wife hit then nail on the head.
Like I've been trying to say. You can't get arrested for disorderly conduct in your own house for speaking your mind. He has the 1st amendment on his side. He has the right to protest. He can say anything he wants to the cop. The cop is more or less trespassing.

Oh, and I'll just leave this here.

[/QUOTE]

I can do this all day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPEeCYPGjm0

"I didn't hear you"

Can you imagine, I mean can you just imagine, if he had said something about Rivieri's mother?

You guys must have some really nice police, round here the cops don't take any guff.
 
Not sure what your point is. You show an unstable child abusing cop after I show a man who acts like a calm responsible officer of the law despite being yelled at by an unruly speeder.

???

Sort of just damns your own argument. Not that you had an argument...
 
[quote name='camoor']OK Sherlock, so if you've got someone berating you, refusing to calm down, refusing to talk rationally, all you know is that it's his house, the door is busted in, and the guy clearly doesn't have the physical strength to do it - so you would automatically deduce the answer to the case of the broken lock. Hey folks, we have our very own Encyclopedia Brown! Why didn't you say so Myke, you can teach your deduction skills to law enforcement all over the country. No longer will we have to talk to people to ensure the situation is secure, we'll just pass our eyes over the scene and instantly know all there is to know![/QUOTE]

Forgive me for coming up with the proper answer according to camoor's logic of forgetting the facts and making things up. Using that, here's the wholly appropriate response:

1) arrive at the scene
2) ensure the proper identity of the person seen on the premises
3) arrest them because they were mean and also to protect them from the boogeymen upstairs, who we didn't search the premises for anyway, but let's not worry about reading the police reports when we can have opinions just as easily and save ourselves the time!

Do I get an A now, teach?
 
[quote name='HowStern']Not sure what your point is. You show an unstable child abusing cop after I show a man who acts like a calm responsible officer of the law despite being yelled at by an unruly speeder.

???

Sort of just damns your own argument. Not that you had an argument...[/QUOTE]

Excellent point. Poor 300lb Officer Riveri, being intimidated by a hulking 90lb child who is abusing him with unstable threats like "OK I didn't hear you", and "I didn't do anything, dude".

Are you freaking serious? The kids could have some respect for law just like Gates could have some respect for the law, but the kids are teenagers and Gates is a grown man who should know better.

The cop you posted is a saint, the reason they show him on all the car chase reels is because they are more interested in propaganda then reality. If you think you can act that way towards a cop (no matter what you look like) and get away with it, please come to DC and try it. Just make sure you get someone to film it because I want to see.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Forgive me for coming up with the proper answer according to camoor's logic of forgetting the facts and making things up. Using that, here's the wholly appropriate response:

1) arrive at the scene
2) ensure the proper identity of the person seen on the premises
3) arrest them because they were mean and also to protect them from the boogeymen upstairs, who we didn't search the premises for anyway, but let's not worry about reading the police reports when we can have opinions just as easily and save ourselves the time!

Do I get an A now, teach?[/QUOTE]

Sorry kiddo you fail, but bring an apple for me on Monday and I'll give you a bite at extra credit.

The officer was surprised and confused by Gates' behavior, he had not ascertained what was going on and couldn't fathom the irrational behavior on Gates' part. He was trying to calm Gates down and ensure everythign was copacetic. Like I said, by the time the cuffs came out it had escalated to the point where the cop probably felt he couldn't back down. Unfortunate and in lieu of further escalation on Gates' part (like physical assault) the cop probably shouldn't have brought out the cuffs, but that's a heat-of-the-moment judgement call that's easy to monday morning qb. I'll tell you this, the officer showed a hell of alot more judgement and restraint then a typical DC area cop would show to anyone.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You prove my point.

There's not a dichotomy here. There's no "I agree with everything all of them say all of the time" at work in what I'm saying. OTOH, you have shown that in spite of this, the opposite end of the spectrum does exist, and even persists. The "don't believe anything these uppity negroes have to say - they're always up to no good, they're the ones causing trouble, they're the ones who perpetuate racism" claim.

Acknowledging that they have valid points is not akin to hanging on every word they say. Forgive me if I live in a nuanced world where I take into consideration the points being made, as opposed to flippantly disregarding those who make those claims.

Many of you, speaking generally, seem to show something I'm quite amazed by; that you'll never get off your ass to condemn racism in action, but you'll be the first in line to fight those who do get off their asses.

White privilege.

camoor, you're trying to recreate events to satisfy some nonsensical concept of even-handedness - or to justify Gates' arrest because he was an uppity $$$$er that didn't know his place in deferring to a police officer. your scenario, as you even call it, is full of conjecture. we may disgree, but at least I'm not the one making up hypotheticals to excuse one of the people.

I point out that Gates' arrest had zero to do with the burglary and occurred well after the police had established that Gates was, in fact, the proper legal resident of this house. Facts corroborated by all reports and refuted by none of them. You have to extrapolate Crowley's past to make assumptions about how he behaved on this night in particular, in order to weave your fantasy that makes the victim the assailant.[/QUOTE]

Wtf man, i never called them "uppity negroes" and i never said they perpetuate racism. Don't start painting me with the white racist brush. I said i don't like the guys because i think they do nothing but promote themselves. It's my opinion that they do nothing positive for civil rights. They fancy themselves replacements for King and that is far from the case.

Can we not criticize these men lest we be called racists? I'm sure they have done some good, though i believe that the greater good takes a back seat to their own interests.
 
Myke - you're making your decision, not based on what went on in this individual case, but based on your preconceived notion of law enforcement and race relations.

"He's white - he's obviously racist."

I dare say, you sir, are the one displaying racist behavior.
 
[quote name='camoor']Excellent point. Poor 300lb Officer Riveri, being intimidated by a hulking 90lb child who is abusing him with unstable threats like "OK I didn't hear you", and "I didn't do anything, dude".

Are you freaking serious? The kids could have some respect for law just like Gates could have some respect for the law, but the kids are teenagers and Gates is a grown man who should know better.

The cop you posted is a saint, the reason they show him on all the car chase reels is because they are more interested in propaganda then reality. If you think you can act that way towards a cop (no matter what you look like) and get away with it, please come to DC and try it. Just make sure you get someone to film it because I want to see.[/QUOTE]


Nope. Sorry.

That cop is how all cops should act(Not the fat child abuser). You can't arrest someone simply because they won't calm down in their own home. Not being calm isn't a crime.

So, the one who didn't have respect for the law is the cop. Seeing as how exercising freedom of speech is a right and the cop arrested Gates for it.

Your video just proves there is more police out there who are unfit for the job and go unreasonably too far. Just like Crowley did. And you seem to be saying that since this is a known fact that cops cross the line frequently that Gates should have STFU. That's some argument...."Cops are dicks so give up your civil rights!"
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Wtf man, i never called them "uppity negroes" and i never said they perpetuate racism. Don't start painting me with the white racist brush. I said i don't like the guys because i think they do nothing but promote themselves. It's my opinion that they do nothing positive for civil rights. They fancy themselves replacements for King and that is far from the case.

Can we not criticize these men lest we be called racists? I'm sure they have done some good, though i believe that the greater good takes a back seat to their own interests.[/QUOTE]

Right. You said "please don't tell me you're a jackson/sharpton fan." I responded in kind. They have good points to make at times. Sorry if I'm not in the knee-jerk station wagon with the rest of you and thoughtless America. But like I said before, so many white Americans (as shown in this thread) are the last to acknowledge racism in action in the US, but the first to rise up and criticize those who do bring up that racism happens.

[quote name='camoor']Sorry kiddo you fail, but bring an apple for me on Monday and I'll give you a bite at extra credit.

The officer was surprised and confused by Gates' behavior, he had not ascertained what was going on and couldn't fathom the irrational behavior on Gates' part. He was trying to calm Gates down and ensure everythign was copacetic. Like I said, by the time the cuffs came out it had escalated to the point where the cop probably felt he couldn't back down. Unfortunate and in lieu of further escalation on Gates' part (like physical assault) the cop probably shouldn't have brought out the cuffs, but that's a heat-of-the-moment judgement call that's easy to monday morning qb. I'll tell you this, the officer showed a hell of alot more judgement and restraint then a typical DC area cop would show to anyone.[/QUOTE]

Read the report. Read Gates' side. Read Crowley's side. Read up on procedural law. Crowley did not arrest Gates for Disorderly until he was on his porch. Wanna know why? Do yeh? Do yeh?

Look it up yourself, because there's a key portion of what Disorderly Conduct offenses are that prove he was out to get Gates AFTER ascertaining was the owner and resident of the house he was in.

I've said it before, and I've said it again: have an opinion, but be fucking informed. Know the stories, know the law, know procedural law, and then have an opinion. All you're doing is running in circles, picking up and dropping a hybrid of facts and conjecture to build your lego castle of nonsense, and then being upset when it's so easily torn down.

Go. Get to it. Tell me what's so unique about Disorderly that proves Crowley was not at all interested in "justice," not at all interested in protecting Gates from the imaginary burglars they stopped looking for after they were shown ID, and that prove Crowley was being a fucking asshole who utilized a brief moment of opportunity he did not have before in order to do what he did.

I hope I don't have to drop any more hints. Not because I don't want to - but I'd hate for you to shatter my idea that you've half a functioning brain. Look up disorderly. It'll do you a world of good.

[quote name='UncleBob']Myke - you're making your decision, not based on what went on in this individual case, but based on your preconceived notion of law enforcement and race relations.

"He's white - he's obviously racist."

I dare say, you sir, are the one displaying racist behavior.[/QUOTE]

It's not that he's white. Police on the whole have a significant, historic, and consistent pattern of anti-black treatment under the law. It's more complex than mere whiteness, and I reject your strawman that you offer in light of actually debating the facts and reports of the incident. You're afraid to do that.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Police on the whole have a significant, historic, and consistent pattern of anti-black treatment under the law.[/QUOTE]

See, you're looking at this and then deciding that every situation is anti-black. Do you at least recognize the fact that this situation *could* have nothing to do with race?
 
Can't you realize that it could've had everything to do with race? Would the neighbor have called the cops if two white men were walking around a house? Would the cop have arrested a white man that was berating him in his own house?

And I'm not digging the "He's a friend of blacks therefore he couldn't be racist" line. If the chief of police is black, wouldn't you kiss his ass to get cushier jobs like the Diversity Awareness (or whatever that specific PD calls it) post? If that police department is like the military, it's not the most qualified for the post that gets it. It's the guy they want to get off the streets or away from the rest of the flight/squadron. "Hey, Rogers is a real piece of work. Can't do a damn thing. Why don't we make him do the sexual harassment seminar instead of working the beat this week?" "Yeah, that's the ticket."

And the whole "He's a youth coach, therefore he can't be racist" is another load of crap. Have you seen some of the youth coaches out there? Some of them are out for blood and wouldn't hesitate to bench their own kid if it meant a trophy that was a little nicer than all the others.

All that being said, this guy might be a regular joe that just got caught up in the situation. But aren't we paying these guys not to lose their cool? Does he fly off the handle next year because someone told him to fuck off?
 
[quote name='HowStern']Nope. Sorry.

That cop is how all cops should act(Not the fat child abuser). You can't arrest someone simply because they won't calm down in their own home. Not being calm isn't a crime.

So, the one who didn't have respect for the law is the cop. Seeing as how exercising freedom of speech is a right and the cop arrested Gates for it.

Your video just proves there is more police out there who are unfit for the job and go unreasonably too far. Just like Crowley did. And you seem to be saying that since this is a known fact that cops cross the line frequently that Gates should have STFU. That's some argument...."Cops are dicks so give up your civil rights!"[/QUOTE]

You're right that cops should act like the guy in your traffic stop. But cops aren't perfect, even American cops who may be some of the most patient and least corrupt cops in the world. They are human beings who have good days and bad days, and some abuse their power. It's beyond naive to expect a cop to sit there while you throw a temper tantrum, create a scene, upset a crowd of people, approach him in a clearly agitated state while calling him all sorts of names and denegrating his mother.

[quote name='mykevermin']Read the report. Read Gates' side. Read Crowley's side. Read up on procedural law. Crowley did not arrest Gates for Disorderly until he was on his porch. Wanna know why? Do yeh? Do yeh?

Look it up yourself, because there's a key portion of what Disorderly Conduct offenses are that prove he was out to get Gates AFTER ascertaining was the owner and resident of the house he was in.

I've said it before, and I've said it again: have an opinion, but be fucking informed. Know the stories, know the law, know procedural law, and then have an opinion. All you're doing is running in circles, picking up and dropping a hybrid of facts and conjecture to build your lego castle of nonsense, and then being upset when it's so easily torn down.

Go. Get to it. Tell me what's so unique about Disorderly that proves Crowley was not at all interested in "justice," not at all interested in protecting Gates from the imaginary burglars they stopped looking for after they were shown ID, and that prove Crowley was being a fucking asshole who utilized a brief moment of opportunity he did not have before in order to do what he did.

I hope I don't have to drop any more hints. Not because I don't want to - but I'd hate for you to shatter my idea that you've half a functioning brain. Look up disorderly. It'll do you a world of good.



It's not that he's white. Police on the whole have a significant, historic, and consistent pattern of anti-black treatment under the law. It's more complex than mere whiteness, and I reject your strawman that you offer in light of actually debating the facts and reports of the incident. You're afraid to do that.[/QUOTE]

I'm not upset Myke, it was just a little verbal banter. I'm not upset because the president, who has had a reasonable view all along, is backing down now that the facts are coming out. I'm not upset because it just so happens Crowley has a solid history of fairly treating all citizens, his fellow officers of all stripes are standing behind his good work, and there seems to be little chance for the usual suspects to further their political agenda by dragging his name and career through the mud. I'm not upset because America agrees with me.

Pardon me for saying so, but you seem a little more agitated then usual. Might I suggest laying off the Daily Kos koolaid before you decide to take a header off your ivory tower?
 
[quote name='HowStern']Nope. Sorry.

That cop is how all cops should act(Not the fat child abuser). You can't arrest someone simply because they won't calm down in their own home. Not being calm isn't a crime.

So, the one who didn't have respect for the law is the cop. Seeing as how exercising freedom of speech is a right and the cop arrested Gates for it.

Your video just proves there is more police out there who are unfit for the job and go unreasonably too far. Just like Crowley did. And you seem to be saying that since this is a known fact that cops cross the line frequently that Gates should have STFU. That's some argument...."Cops are dicks so give up your civil rights!"[/QUOTE]

You're right that cops should act like the guy in your traffic stop. But cops aren't perfect, even American cops who may be some of the most patient and least corrupt cops in the world. They are human beings who have good days and bad days, and some abuse their power. It's beyond naive to expect a cop to sit there while you throw a temper tantrum, refuse to comply with requests in a timely manner, create a scene, upset a crowd of people, approach him in a clearly agitated state while calling him all sorts of names and denegrating his mother.

[quote name='mykevermin']Read the report. Read Gates' side. Read Crowley's side. Read up on procedural law. Crowley did not arrest Gates for Disorderly until he was on his porch. Wanna know why? Do yeh? Do yeh?

Look it up yourself, because there's a key portion of what Disorderly Conduct offenses are that prove he was out to get Gates AFTER ascertaining was the owner and resident of the house he was in.

I've said it before, and I've said it again: have an opinion, but be fucking informed. Know the stories, know the law, know procedural law, and then have an opinion. All you're doing is running in circles, picking up and dropping a hybrid of facts and conjecture to build your lego castle of nonsense, and then being upset when it's so easily torn down.

Go. Get to it. Tell me what's so unique about Disorderly that proves Crowley was not at all interested in "justice," not at all interested in protecting Gates from the imaginary burglars they stopped looking for after they were shown ID, and that prove Crowley was being a fucking asshole who utilized a brief moment of opportunity he did not have before in order to do what he did.

I hope I don't have to drop any more hints. Not because I don't want to - but I'd hate for you to shatter my idea that you've half a functioning brain. Look up disorderly. It'll do you a world of good.



It's not that he's white. Police on the whole have a significant, historic, and consistent pattern of anti-black treatment under the law. It's more complex than mere whiteness, and I reject your strawman that you offer in light of actually debating the facts and reports of the incident. You're afraid to do that.[/QUOTE]

I'm not upset Myke, it was just a little verbal banter. I'm not upset because the president, who has had a reasonable view all along, is backing down now that the facts are coming out. I'm not upset because it just so happens Crowley has a solid history of fairly treating all citizens, his fellow officers of all stripes are standing behind his good work, and there seems to be little chance for the usual suspects to further their political agenda by dragging his name and career through the mud. I'm not upset because America agrees with me.

Pardon me for saying so, but you seem a little more agitated then usual. Might I suggest laying off the Daily Kos koolaid before you decide to take a header off your ivory tower?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Can't you realize that it could've had everything to do with race?[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying it wasn't racially motivated.

I'm not saying the cop wasn't in the wrong. In fact, I clearly said the cop was in the wrong.

However, nothing in the facts provided lead me to believe this is racially motivated. It may very well have been - but I'm not ready to call someone racist just because a white guy did something wrong to a black guy.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

I point out that Gates' arrest had zero to do with the burglary and occurred well after the police had established that Gates was, in fact, the proper legal resident of this house. Facts corroborated by all reports and refuted by none of them. You have to extrapolate Crowley's past to make assumptions about how he behaved on this night in particular, in order to weave your fantasy that makes the victim the assailant.[/QUOTE]
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/04/911-police-officer-r.html
http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/weirdnews/fulltext?cid=219041

Hey look at this a white person arrested, but then she was let go because she was charged with breaking a law that didn't exist. By your logic the only explanation is the cop must be racist against white people.

Or you could realize a lot of cops are jerks to everyone and without knowing how Crowley treats white people who piss him off you have no baseline to compare his actions against, so no information can be assumed and to do so would be closed minded and biased.
 
[quote name='camoor']I'm not upset Myke, it was just a little verbal banter. I'm not upset because the president, who has had a reasonable view all along, is backing down now that the facts are coming out. I'm not upset because it just so happens Crowley has a solid history of fairly treating all citizens, his fellow officers of all stripes are standing behind his good work, and there seems to be little chance for the usual suspects to further their political agenda by dragging his name and career through the mud. I'm not upset because America agrees with me.

Pardon me for saying so, but you seem a little more agitated then usual. Might I suggest laying off the Daily Kos koolaid before you decide to take a header off your ivory tower?[/QUOTE]

You type a lot of words. But you couldn't be bothered to look up Disorderly Conduct.

*sigh*

You know why I get agitated? Because you act like you have a valid perspective on things that is on par with my own, despite having nothing informing you but your opinions. You're fucking lazy, but yet you keep on yammering.

Uncle Bob, you directed some interesting questions at me - once I shake this hangover off I'll try to respond to them.
 
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/disorderly_conduct.html

Disorderly Conduct

Almost every state has a disorderly conduct law that makes it a crime to be drunk in public, to "disturb the peace", or to loiter in certain areas. Many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition of disorderly conduct, as such statutes are often used as "catch-all" crimes. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when a person is behaving in a disruptive manner, but presents no serious public danger.


...


Is this what you're getting at?
 
That's just the definition. Now apply it to this situation to demonstrate that Crowley did not arrest/charge Gates to protect him from any would-be burglars in his home.

But good on yeh for doing what was evidently too strenuous for camoor.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's just the definition. Now apply it to this situation to demonstrate that Crowley did not arrest/charge Gates to protect him from any would-be burglars in his home.

But good on yeh for doing what was evidently too strenuous for camoor.[/QUOTE]

The charge was disturbing the peace, of course. When you're trying to secure a scene, you don't have to arrest citizens if they are cooperating. However if a citizen refuses to listen to reason and acts in a non-cooperative way (such as refusing to answer questions while approaching an officer in an agitated state and verbally assaulting them as a crowd gathers), there are a host of charges that can be brought. Sometimes the primary motivation for arresting people is their safety, sometimes arresting a person before they are further endangered is the best option. All of these reasons would not be reflected in the technical charge although they do factor in the officer's decision process.

I had an opinion on the matter based on what Crowley said in one of his first interviews and I don't see how it's incompatible with the charge.

You don't have to be a lawyer to figure this out, watch one of the myriad daily half-hour documentary shows on police, detectives, or lawyers. If Gates was pulled over on Broadway and proceeded to throw his temper tantrum, refusing to listen to reason, and was in danger of walking into traffic, he'd probably be hit with the same disorderly conduct charge. That's because there is no "In danger of walking into traffic due to temper tantrum" charge similar to how there is no "In danger of being stabbed in your house by a burgler hiding upstairs due to failing to inform officer of situation while throwing temper tantrum" charge.

You like to talk about nuance but you play semantics when it suits your agenda.

You know what I hate about this case - it was a piss-poor example to hold up as an example of injustice. I'm sure injustice happens everyday but when a foul-mouthed hothead "do you know how I am" professor makes a mess of his making into a huge media event it reinforces the idea that people who complain about injustice really don't have a case.

You threw out the baby with the bathwater Myke, you let your agenda trump the facts of the case and now your lack of impartiality is being exposed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top