Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together psp

Well I say on Monday evening we all file claims/disputes whatever on it. A horde of them on the same day should get some sort of reaction.
 
I got my copy of the game in from Gamestop :) Y's book 1 and 2 also. (And ordered the reprint of...shoot, whatever that one S/RPG is...)

For some reason I don't seem to be able to get free shipping with preorders, so have to hold off on Parasite Eve 3, Final Fantasy 4 Complete, and the start of that new Heroes game (I wonder if I should have bought the first three...I know guys who don't even like RPGs normally who loved those).
 
Yep, that's it! Yeah, ordered that yesterday along with God of War 3 and Heavy Rain, since they hit $30.
 
ok i am a huge fft fan, i played through that game 3-4 times on my ps one, and just got the war of the lions version on psp. how much more indepth is this game... and do you think it would be easy for someone that is a fan of FFT to play this game?
 
[quote name='dkreegz515']ok i am a huge fft fan, i played through that game 3-4 times on my ps one, and just got the war of the lions version on psp. how much more indepth is this game... and do you think it would be easy for someone that is a fan of FFT to play this game?[/QUOTE]

They are fairly similar so chances are if your expectations are not too high you will enjoy it. To me TO was the father of Stratagy RPGs but FFT was the strapping young son that accomplished everything its father failed to do. Today even with all TO's face lifts and nose jobs it still remains true. TO is a good game, but its skill system, story, character development and everything else are all weak compared to FFT.
 
From what I remember it was actually much more playable...plus this has awesome changes like classes going up in levels together, so you don't have to mess around with leveling up individual characters (I HATE that!).

So...I'm hoping for the best. Could never get far in FFT, the three times I tried it.
 
TO isn't as accessible a SRPG as FFT, buy yeah they're pretty similar. It's just my opinion, but I prefer depth in SRPGs, and to that effect FFT has always been the simplest, most "dumbed down" version of a SRPG.

I personally feel TO is a much better game, if only because the game doesn't revolve around using potions on one person to level every other in your party up... With the remake, TO is also a lot more balanced. FFT was pretty much T.G. Cid running around raping people.

As for the stories, both are convoluted and neither of the PSP remakes have ~amazing~ translations.
 
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']TO isn't as accessible a SRPG as FFT, buy yeah they're pretty similar. It's just my opinion, but I prefer depth in SRPGs, and to that effect FFT has always been the simplest, most "dumbed down" version of a SRPG.[/quote]

I don't think that's true at all. FFT is one of the hardest and most complex SRPGs I've ever played. There are far more accessible ones made before and since. In fact FFT was the first SRPG I ever hated.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']From what I remember it was actually much more playable...plus this has awesome changes like classes going up in levels together, so you don't have to mess around with leveling up individual characters (I HATE that!).

So...I'm hoping for the best. Could never get far in FFT, the three times I tried it.[/QUOTE]

Id disagree all around. Also the class system is a mixed bag. Thing is that yes when you get a new character you can turn them in to an established class and not have to level them up, flip side is that any new class you get has to be completely leveled up. So for instance I just unlocked "White KNight" a unique class to 2 different characters and thus I had to level them from 1 to 20 to catch up.

Not to mention that new characters come with very few skills so you have to learn and level up those skills.

@Prinny Otaku - Yes in FFT you CAN game the system and spam potions, but I have seen tons of people saying they just put their characters on A.I and let them grind levels while they play something else. How is that any better? Also I would argue that the difficulty in TO is inflated due to its poor and limiting skill system. I mean yes in FFT you could make your characters gods, but it was fun. Much better then TO which does not even let you do the most basic of things like make a warrior that can cast spells or a Valkyrie that can use two weapons at once.

As for the story, I think that while both can be convoluted that FFT is much better for one big reason...they at least take the time to introduce characters to you and build their story. TO is horrid at just tossing random people in and out of the story and never taking time to introduce or develop them. You are just expected to know who they are or to spend hours reading the Warren Report to understand WTF is going on. In FFT they introduce a character then let them stay in your party or your rival or part of the story for awhile before removing them or changing who they are. TO just constantly is tossing new people at you and plot twists...there is no build up or development.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I don't think that's true at all. FFT is one of the hardest and most complex SRPGs I've ever played. There are far more accessible ones made before and since. In fact FFT was the first SRPG I ever hated.[/QUOTE]

How the hell is FFT not accessible or easy? Most people think it is too easy. To me that speaks volumes for how great FFT is that some think it is so easy and some so hard. Really at that matters is that the skill system and gameplay are very easy to wrap your head around vs TO's lame skill and item creation systems.
 
The only people who are going to think FFT is easy are people who are heavily steeped in the genre. Most people are going to find it WAY too hard...even people like me that can really enjoy the genre.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']The only people who are going to think FFT is easy are people who are heavily steeped in the genre. Most people are going to find it WAY too hard...even people like me that can really enjoy the genre.[/QUOTE]

Well to be fair you said you have tried it 3 times and not finished it. The start of the game can be a bit rough, but if you take any time to level at all it gets easy fast....then mid game you start getting the Holy Knight or whatever they are called characters like Aeregis or whatever her name is and Cid and they completely dominate.
 
As I was describing it to someone the other day, this game feels a lot like Final Fantasy Tactics with the training wheels off. That's not to say that FFT is an easy game, but this is definitely much harder and there's a lot more you need to pay attention to. In fact there's maybe too much sometimes, in a Vagrant Story way--it's frustrating when one of my characters will just be completely ineffective against certain enemies. I'm assuming that's because of their weapon type, but it could be a number of other things.

FFT was also pretty generous in letting you mix and match skills to create some totally broken combinations, and the NPCs who join you are completely overpowered. In TO it seems like each class is pretty much limited to their skillset, at least as far as I've played or discovered. I kind of like it more specialized because it forces you to put together a good squad with members that complement each other instead of just having a few powerhouse characters.

Also in the too-complicated-for-its-own-good department, I like that I'm a few chapters in and I feel like there's still a ton to learn--classes to try, skills and spells to experiment with, etc. Does anyone have any good tips or discoveries they want to share? For instance, the lobber thing that someone mentioned. I totally wouldn't have tried that and it turned my clerics from cannon fodder into being pretty useful units.
 
[quote name='metaly']As I was describing it to someone the other day, this game feels a lot like Final Fantasy Tactics with the training wheels off. That's not to say that FFT is an easy game, but this is definitely much harder and there's a lot more you need to pay attention to.[/QUOTE]

Uhh, what? The only point you need to step outside a story battle in Tactics Ogre is in chapter 4 (for character recruitment). I remember grinding my ass off in FFT (granted, I didn't know how to break the game, but you can break Tactics Ogre, too).

The execution grounds in FFT weren't hard? Facing off against that one boss without knowing the Guts trick wasn't hard? Eh... I'm not so sure what game you were playing...

And Canopus is super broken. Canopus + maxing of TP (just have your own characters hit him) + crossbow finishers = gg on any regular boss.

FFT was also pretty generous in letting you mix and match skills to create some totally broken combinations, and the NPCs who join you are completely overpowered. In TO it seems like each class is pretty much limited to their skillset, at least as far as I've played or discovered. I kind of like it more specialized because it forces you to put together a good squad with members that complement each other instead of just having a few powerhouse characters.
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The uniques aren't overpowered? Play a little further in. They have like +5 in every stat over the generics and can transform into some pretty beast classes. Ozma as Knight Commander with dual-wield daggers says hi.

Also in the too-complicated-for-its-own-good department, I like that I'm a few chapters in and I feel like there's still a ton to learn--classes to try, skills and spells to experiment with, etc. Does anyone have any good tips or discoveries they want to share? For instance, the lobber thing that someone mentioned. I totally wouldn't have tried that and it turned my clerics from cannon fodder into being pretty useful units.
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Sure. Tynemouth Hill + AI + something to do while the game runs = enjoy the #1 way to grind levels in this game.
 
Dang, sounds like I'm going to hate this *sigh*. Can't remember what I thought when I rented the Playstation 1 version back in the day. I did really like the Gameboy Advance Tactics Ogre game, but it was like about 90,000x easier than FFT and most other games in the genre.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Dang, sounds like I'm going to hate this *sigh*. Can't remember what I thought when I rented the Playstation 1 version back in the day. I did really like the Gameboy Advance Tactics Ogre game, but it was like about 90,000x easier than FFT and most other games in the genre.[/QUOTE]

/unsolicited_advice

Yeah. If you couldn't get into FFT, I would absolutely not recommend Tactics Ogre. And many of the better options in the genre (Valkyria Chronicles, SMT: Devil Survivor) are not S-RPGs in the traditional sense.

The most accessible ones (FFTA, Jeanne D'Arc) are technically sound, but wholly soulless.

Your best bet is probably Disgaea, to be honest. If you're not into that whole Japanesey thing that Disgaea has going on, you might have to wait a bit until the genre matures enough to open its doors of accessibility to more than the hardcore stat buffs that currently make up its fanbase.
 
I hated FFTA and Jeanne D'Arc too. I'm picking up Disgaea though also...finally bit on this rerelease on the Playstation.

What's weird is in the old days the early games in this genre were accessible I thought...then FFT comes along, and since then I can't play maybe 90% of them...hence I no longer even TRY most of them.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I hated FFTA and Jeanne D'Arc too. I'm picking up Disgaea though also...finally bit on this rerelease on the Playstation.

What's weird is in the old days the early games in this genre were accessible I thought...then FFT comes along, and since then I can't play maybe 90% of them...hence I no longer even TRY most of them.[/QUOTE]

What the hell came before it? Fire emblem, Bahamut Lagoon, and the Tenchi game are all I can think of.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Wat.

Have you played any other SRPGs?[/QUOTE]

There hasn't been an SPRG which came out in the last 15 years that I haven't played.

In the end, FFT and TO are extremely similar. There's no point arguing whether the class system or leveling up characters individually is better, or which is less broken. In FFT spamming potions was THE way to keep up in levels, whereas I don't know a single person in TO who has abused class leveling (you really can't, unless you're after skill points). You can put it on A.I. control, but for me at least, I played through the game with 0 incapacitate so A.I. wasn't an option.

The skill system in TO is pretty shitty given all the overlap, I'll give you that. But what you said about new characters not having any skills isn't true. It's also negated by the fact that if you want to level them up from 1, they'll have a shit load of skill points. Ozma, for instance, comes w/ Lv. 4 swords, whips, Augment...

Oh, and the AI is FFT is dumb as shit. TO's AI is much smarter, although extremely annoying at times.

Really at that matters is that the skill system and gameplay are very easy to wrap your head around
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This ^. No SRPG is "hard," it's all about whether you like/understand the systems in it. That's really what determines if you'll enjoy the game or not.

Knight of Lodis was not an easy game... not if you were recruiting everything and oh my god the hidden items on every fucking map, dear god. But, I digress.
 
So you are telling me that, say, Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure (PS1 version as they changed the battle system for DS) is more complex than FFT?

Seriously, stfu.
 
Are you seriously butthurt that you feel like you need to defend FFT as being complex?

Yeah, the PSN Vandal Hearts is SO much more complex than FFT. You gonna cry about that too?

When I'm talking about SPRGs, I'm not talking about the obscure ones that no one plays. And no, I'm not talking about Advance Wars too. jSRPG is my favorite genre, and believe it or not, despite my liking TO better, FFT is up there in my all-time favorite games.

So before you feel the need to defend any criticism aimed at it, you might want to put what I say into perspective. Why you think any comment I make is a blanket statement regarding the ENTIRE genre with no exceptions is beyond me. Is Rhapsody relevant to the discussion? You tell me. You're basically telling me my opinion is invalid and I can't state them. Really? Let me stfu so you can enjoy your FFT more.
 
[quote name='elessar123']What the hell came before it? Fire emblem, Bahamut Lagoon, and the Tenchi game are all I can think of.[/QUOTE]

Eh? There were 90 bajillion SRPGS prior to FFT. It's a latecomer, and it's only since then where like 95% of the genre is way too hard.

I used to love every single one I played, prior to FFT.
 
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']There hasn't been an SPRG which came out in the last 15 years that I haven't played.

In the end, FFT and TO are extremely similar. There's no point arguing whether the class system or leveling up characters individually is better, or which is less broken. In FFT spamming potions was THE way to keep up in levels, whereas I don't know a single person in TO who has abused class leveling (you really can't, unless you're after skill points). You can put it on A.I. control, but for me at least, I played through the game with 0 incapacitate so A.I. wasn't an option.

The skill system in TO is pretty shitty given all the overlap, I'll give you that. But what you said about new characters not having any skills isn't true. It's also negated by the fact that if you want to level them up from 1, they'll have a shit load of skill points. Ozma, for instance, comes w/ Lv. 4 swords, whips, Augment...

Oh, and the AI is FFT is dumb as shit. TO's AI is much smarter, although extremely annoying at times.

This ^. No SRPG is "hard," it's all about whether you like/understand the systems in it. That's really what determines if you'll enjoy the game or not.

Knight of Lodis was not an easy game... not if you were recruiting everything and oh my god the hidden items on every fucking map, dear god. But, I digress.[/QUOTE]

I think you are out of your damned mind if you think that TO's A.I was better then FFT. TO has some of the worst A.I I have seen in any game ever. Characters will use their special moves completely draining their TP when they could just kill an enemy with a normal attack. Healers will move to heal someone that has 30 HP out of 300 missing vs casting boon of swiftness and hell 90% of the turns they just run as far away from danger as possible and then use a healing herb on themselves or another person on their team.

I mean really the enemies in this game are just fucking stupid as can be. TO really impressed me for having a story line with so many branching paths for the player to explore....but outside that it is a middle of the road entry in every way I can think of(well or below average in a few areas like the job/skill system).
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Eh? There were 90 bajillion SRPGS prior to FFT. It's a latecomer, and it's only since then where like 95% of the genre is way too hard.

I used to love every single one I played, prior to FFT.[/QUOTE]

I would like to know what SRPGs you are talking about since really there were only a few SRPGs I can think of like Shining Force that came before FFT less you dip in to games never released in the US(like Bahamut Lagoon).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I think you are out of your damned mind if you think that TO's A.I was better then FFT. TO has some of the worst A.I I have seen in any game ever. Characters will use their special moves completely draining their TP when they could just kill an enemy with a normal attack. Healers will move to heal someone that has 30 HP out of 300 missing vs casting boon of swiftness and hell 90% of the turns they just run as far away from danger as possible and then use a healing herb on themselves or another person on their team.

I mean really the enemies in this game are just fucking stupid as can be. TO really impressed me for having a story line with so many branching paths for the player to explore....but outside that it is a middle of the road entry in every way I can think of(well or below average in a few areas like the job/skill system).[/QUOTE]

What would you have preferred the A.I. do when you have Canopus flying around the entire map one-shotting any caster...? To be honest I don't think I remember any time in FFT where the A.I. was using Haste or any other buff efficiently. In TO they tend to just march towards you and debuff the shit out of you, and it's pretty smart about AoE.

In FFT it was me sending T.G. Cid and Agrias in the front, and all the enemy would do is surround them, and fail tremendously. At least in TO the A.I. decides to be a huge pain in the ass and snipe whoever they can do the most damage to. Marching past the front line was something rarely done in any SRPG.

Once you figure out the A.I. in a SRPG and you know what works, it's really easy to outplay it unless they're extremely overgeared, etc... I don't think I've ever been "impressed" by the A.I. in a SRPG, but FFT and TO are both serviceable.

Characters will use their special moves completely draining their TP when they could just kill an enemy with a normal attack.
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I've never seen the enemy A.I. do that to me, ever. Unless you're talking about setting your own team to A.I. controlled, in which case yes, this game is fucking terrible. It's pretty clearly seen with the guest characters.

EDIT: My memory of FFT is a bit foggy since it's been a good while since I touched it, but IIRC Stop in that game severely broke the latter half. I'm not sure I like the idea of Stop existing at all, but it's in TO as well and... eh.
 
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']Are you seriously butthurt that you feel like you need to defend FFT as being complex?[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're an idiot.

I don't even like FFT. I'm just saying it's not nearly the "simplest" SRPG out there.

Sounds like you're the one who is butthurt.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Wow, you're an idiot.

I don't even like FFT. I'm just saying it's not nearly the "simplest" SRPG out there.

Sounds like you're the one who is butthurt.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you feel like you're contributing to a discussion.
 
Hi guys I'm looking for the Tactics Ogre discussion thread, has anyone seen it?

So I keep getting hung up on my archers being ineffective on certain units. Is this just because their weapon does the wrong damage type? Do I have any buff/debuff options to help them out?

Also, thoughts on boosting magic resistance vs. magic avoidance vs. debuff-specific resistances? I want my guys to stop getting slowed or shackled.
 
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Archers aren't good against heavy units such as knight, or certain beasts/dragons.

There's nothing you can do against a sword and board tank unit, it really just takes a few hits to kill. For golems, dragons, etc... you have two options.

One is to run casters, which work extremely well against golems, octopi and relatively well against dragons. The other option is to run a Dragoon, or Ozma, etc... Any class which has access to Beast/Dragonbane and/or Beast/Dragonslayer will be able to almost one-shot the enemy. Just be careful since using those skills racks up enemy TP really really quick. You need someone to act after the Dragoon to finish it off.

In the end game, physical damage isn't a huge problem compared to magical. I don't use Spell Resistance or Spell Ward much, but my party gets absolutely nuked with magic so it's worth the time investing in those skills.

As for debuffs, enemy spellcasters (the hybrid classes like Terror Knight don't connect much regardless) usually have Spellstrike so stacking Spell Resistance isn't that great of an idea. You could use Field Alchemy on multiple characters so you can use items to cancel the debuffs, and also spread out. Lobbers are great too :)
 
OOOO I got a package today the size of a book. I assumed it was the harry potter pop up I ordered from Aamazon but maybe my guide finally came!
 
I've had media mail take a full two weeks, regardless of where it's coming from so just be patient :) USPS is a crapshoot, there's no deadline/obligation for them to ship media mail fast.
 
Hanging Gardens (aka "oh shi- we're running out of budget, so it's super final dungeon time") is the least-entertaining mapslog I've been on yet. I know there are shortcuts, but there's no way in hell I'm finding them without the guide. Fun, fun, fun!
 
My guide finally came today but it was damaged thanks to the fucking rain we have been having combined with being shipped inside of a cheap envelope.....
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']My guide finally came today but it was damaged thanks to the fucking rain we have been having combined with being shipped inside of a cheap envelope.....[/QUOTE]
Mine was that way too - shipped from Amazon no less! I sent it back and requested that they ship it in their standard cardboard boxes. Got it two days later absolutely mint. Why on earth would they even try the former way?!
 
Well shit, can slidecage at least edit the thread title :lol:

I'm an FFT fanboy, but in terms of system design, I'm starting to like TO a bit more. The story and characters really suck though, I was a bit let down. At least the decision making is fun.

I'm kind of ignoring the class advice here, I like trying out all the obscure ones. The game isn't too tough yet (chapter III), but for whatever reason battles still feel really rewarding.
 
[quote name='anbu-black-ops']I LOVE this game. It's reminds me of how addicting FFT was. I love unlocking skills while grinding.[/QUOTE]

Problem is you are far too limited on what skills you can use, transfer and combine compared to FFT.
 
^ sadly yeah. I was confused when I first played it a couple of days, cause I can't use some skills I unlock from another class.

Nonetheless this game rocks and is as deep as FFT. It has it's pros and cons compared to FFT, but it's definitely great especially on the psp. I kinda regret not playing this on ps1 even though I have the game.
 
JUST barely started the game, and suspecting I'll get stuck in five minutes, but anyway the production values are fantastic, and I didn't realize but it has an install to drive option-I think it's really cool some PSP games are doing that now!

Anyway this seems like a no brainer if you're good at these games. Maybe I'll surprise myself and do okay...
 
MAN I hope I don't get stuck in this, it's so fun so far, and I still LOVE that classes go up together. Wonder if it would be better still if all units went up together?

Anyway I've got a probably dumb question-you know how enemies you kill leave behind a goody bag? Well do you have to actually use a turn collecting it to get what's inside it? If you just leave it on the battlefield, do you get it at the end of the battle, or are the items lost?\

EDIT: Okay, another even dumber question...what happens when characters die? I just had a Rune Fencer get his HP knocked to zero, and it lists him as "Incapacitated" with a red three over him. Does that mean he has three rounds until he dies, and if I had some healing spell I could fix him or something?

EDIT2: Okay I see SOME of that's in the Warren Report, but you don't seem to be able to access that inside a battle, plus your explanation was easier to understand! :)
 
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You can use a Blessing Stone to revive him before the ticker hits 0. If it does hit 0, the unit is removed from battle and loses a "heart." Lose 3 hearts and the unit dies, turns into a coffin.

Loot bags are collected at the end of battle if you don't pick them up, Tarot cards are not. However if there are enemies close to you, it's a good idea to pick them up anyways because they tend to like to steal them.

There is a 0 Incapacitation title, if you cared at all.
 
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']You can use a Blessing Stone to revive him before the ticker hits 0. If it does hit 0, the unit is removed from battle and loses a "heart." Lose 3 hearts and the unit dies, turns into a coffin.

Loot bags are collected at the end of battle if you don't pick them up, Tarot cards are not. However if there are enemies close to you, it's a good idea to pick them up anyways because they tend to like to steal them.

There is a 0 Incapacitation title, if you cared at all.[/QUOTE]

So my next dumb question is-can tarot cards be in bags? So I'd want to grab them anyway?

Interesting system regarding three "hearts" per character...so I guess they can be wiped out in a battle twice and don't actually die until the third time.

I assume if they made it to the end of the battle before losing a heart, that you don't have to waste a revival stone on them? I probably shouldn't have used one on him...

Anyway thanks for the info! I doubt I would have figured that out on my own, and the FAQ I looked at didn't say anything when I searched on "incapacitated".

EDIT: Thumbs up to the music-it's innocuous enough I didn't even realize I'm listening to it right now :lol:
 
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