Tax junk food to pay for health care
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cindersphere
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How can anyone eat that stuff in that order and mixture. The horror.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']who wants to start a "hey lets all ignore budsmoka" thread?
[/QUOTE]
Why in the world would we want to do that?
Besides, this thread becomes infinitely more enjoyable once you read it with the mental image of him squinting in confusion at a JRPG.
[/QUOTE]
Why in the world would we want to do that?
Besides, this thread becomes infinitely more enjoyable once you read it with the mental image of him squinting in confusion at a JRPG.
[quote name='budsmoka']Zyzz is god man. Hes got dem aesthetics.[/QUOTE]
You misc brah?
Anyway this topic has gone way off. Does anybody think about the fact that cheap food is cheaper than "real food". You aren't helping the fact that a lot of people who can't afford real food. Buying a 2 liter of Pepsi is cheaper than some vegetables for a family.
Food for thought......
You misc brah?
Anyway this topic has gone way off. Does anybody think about the fact that cheap food is cheaper than "real food". You aren't helping the fact that a lot of people who can't afford real food. Buying a 2 liter of Pepsi is cheaper than some vegetables for a family.
Food for thought......
Lets tax health food so that us fat slobs and chain smokers who die at a reasonable age won't have to pay for them to convalesce in nursing homes for 30 years. And maybe they can add a social security fee to these items since they'll be collecting for more years than they were paying in.
Or maybe the government isn't the answer to every social problem.
^^I buy 2 liter Cokes for 89 cents because a comparable sized juice costs 4 times as much.
Or maybe the government isn't the answer to every social problem.
^^I buy 2 liter Cokes for 89 cents because a comparable sized juice costs 4 times as much.
fatherofcaitlyn
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Taxing junk food and subsidizing the components of junk food is the way to go?
I can't believe mykevermin didn't point that out. Knoell must have really messed him up.
I can't believe mykevermin didn't point that out. Knoell must have really messed him up.
Access_Denied
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I think that with government health care like this, everybody should pay the same amount. It sucks balls, I know, but how do you draw the lines? We ALL participate regularly in dangerous tasks. Some people eat too much, some drink, some have dangerous jobs, some suck at driving, some are idiots, etc. How exactly do we judge who should pay what? As much as I hate to say it, that's how it should be. It would sure suck for me to have to pay more because I work in construction versus somebody who works in an office. (But then again, the little bitches who work in offices whine more about ergonomic problems than I do about major injuries.)
Anyway, just saying, too many factors play into this. It would have to be equal for everybody.
Anyway, just saying, too many factors play into this. It would have to be equal for everybody.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Taxing junk food and subsidizing the components of junk food is the way to go?
[/QUOTE]
Yep, the Tax idea just isn't doable.
The real approach is end corn subsidies and find someway to cut back on HFCS being in everything on top of that. An out right ban is probably going too far, but made you put the tax on profits produces of HFCS make when selling it to food and beverage companies etc. and drive prices up a bit that way to encourage more companies to not use HFCS in their products.
Need a major anti-obesity campaign, etc. etc. No idea how to make one that's effective though. A lot of obesity problems start in childhood and kids are stuck eating whatever their parents feed them.
[/QUOTE]
Yep, the Tax idea just isn't doable.
The real approach is end corn subsidies and find someway to cut back on HFCS being in everything on top of that. An out right ban is probably going too far, but made you put the tax on profits produces of HFCS make when selling it to food and beverage companies etc. and drive prices up a bit that way to encourage more companies to not use HFCS in their products.
Need a major anti-obesity campaign, etc. etc. No idea how to make one that's effective though. A lot of obesity problems start in childhood and kids are stuck eating whatever their parents feed them.
For arguments sake, if such a tax were proposed, how exactly would one define "Junk" Food. To me that seems like an entirely ambiguous term that could mean different things to different people.
Is "junk" Food simply any food that has no nutritional value whatsoever, because one could argue that even something that is made almost entirely of processed chemicals still at it's core contains some sort of nutritional building block, even if all the additives had negated its value.
Some people might define "junk" food as anything that contains artificial flavors or sugars like high fructose corn syrup. If that's what we consider to be junk food, then you can just lump about half the grocery store in that category, because just about everything has some sort of artificial preservatives or sweetener in it. Those Twinkies don't have a half life of a trillion years based on their own merits.
Still yet others might define "junk" food as any food that is inherently dangerous to consume. If this is your definition, than you can lump the other half of the grocery store in as well. Not only do you have all the artificial flavors, sugars, preservatives, and other additives which might cause cancer when obscenely large amounts of them get plugged directly into a mouse through an IV tube, but you can also throw in just about all red meat, dairy products, and really all non-organic anything as well. Gotta punish people for eating all that stuff, why should I have to pay for Grandma's angioplasty sixty years down the line?
Oh, and those nasty vegetables are going to give you a serious case of vitamin b-12 deficiency if you eat them exclusively, so let's tax those too, but only if they aren't bought in conjunction with some sort of meat product.
and who will taxes on "junk" food hurt disproportionately? Why the poor of course, the very same group a lot of people think should be protected from higher taxes. You don't exactly see people walking into Whole Foods, filling up their grocery carts, and paying with food stamps or their WIC card, do you?
A lot of families that need assistance don't eat junk food because they WANT to, they eat it because they HAVE to. Junk Food is cheap and plentiful. Why do you think you see so many big fat homeless people? It's not because they're lazy and overfed, it's because the only food they can afford are those dollar menu burgers at Wendys and McDonalds, which are high in fat and protein, which causes you to gain a lot of weight quickly.
While it's always nice to generalize those who make poor dietary choices as being lazy, the reality is that most of them simply have no other choice. If you taxed junk food and made it more expensive, who is that going to benefit?
The comparison of junk food to cigarettes just isn't apt at all. Junk food is fine in moderation, cigarettes aren't. Eating junk food is more akin to promiscuity in my book. Sex with many anonymous people is fine in moderation, but if you're not smart about it, eventually you're going to get HIV and die. Eating at Burger King is fine in moderation, but if you're not smart about it, eventually you're going to have a heart attack and die. Are we going to start keeping tabs on peoples sex lives and tax the people who have unprotected sex with people they don't know very well?
Is "junk" Food simply any food that has no nutritional value whatsoever, because one could argue that even something that is made almost entirely of processed chemicals still at it's core contains some sort of nutritional building block, even if all the additives had negated its value.
Some people might define "junk" food as anything that contains artificial flavors or sugars like high fructose corn syrup. If that's what we consider to be junk food, then you can just lump about half the grocery store in that category, because just about everything has some sort of artificial preservatives or sweetener in it. Those Twinkies don't have a half life of a trillion years based on their own merits.
Still yet others might define "junk" food as any food that is inherently dangerous to consume. If this is your definition, than you can lump the other half of the grocery store in as well. Not only do you have all the artificial flavors, sugars, preservatives, and other additives which might cause cancer when obscenely large amounts of them get plugged directly into a mouse through an IV tube, but you can also throw in just about all red meat, dairy products, and really all non-organic anything as well. Gotta punish people for eating all that stuff, why should I have to pay for Grandma's angioplasty sixty years down the line?
Oh, and those nasty vegetables are going to give you a serious case of vitamin b-12 deficiency if you eat them exclusively, so let's tax those too, but only if they aren't bought in conjunction with some sort of meat product.
and who will taxes on "junk" food hurt disproportionately? Why the poor of course, the very same group a lot of people think should be protected from higher taxes. You don't exactly see people walking into Whole Foods, filling up their grocery carts, and paying with food stamps or their WIC card, do you?
A lot of families that need assistance don't eat junk food because they WANT to, they eat it because they HAVE to. Junk Food is cheap and plentiful. Why do you think you see so many big fat homeless people? It's not because they're lazy and overfed, it's because the only food they can afford are those dollar menu burgers at Wendys and McDonalds, which are high in fat and protein, which causes you to gain a lot of weight quickly.
While it's always nice to generalize those who make poor dietary choices as being lazy, the reality is that most of them simply have no other choice. If you taxed junk food and made it more expensive, who is that going to benefit?
The comparison of junk food to cigarettes just isn't apt at all. Junk food is fine in moderation, cigarettes aren't. Eating junk food is more akin to promiscuity in my book. Sex with many anonymous people is fine in moderation, but if you're not smart about it, eventually you're going to get HIV and die. Eating at Burger King is fine in moderation, but if you're not smart about it, eventually you're going to have a heart attack and die. Are we going to start keeping tabs on peoples sex lives and tax the people who have unprotected sex with people they don't know very well?
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[quote name='spmahn']
While it's always nice to generalize those who make poor dietary choices as being lazy, the reality is that most of them simply have no other choice.
[/QUOTE]
That's not true really though. Junk food--chips, candy bars etc. are pretty pricey.
Even within categories, the healthy choice/lean cuisine etc. TV dinners are no more pricey that the super fatty "Hungry Man" tv dinners etc.
Plain frozen spinach is a good bit cheaper than the terribly fatty creamed spinach. The popular sugary cereals tend to cost more than healthy cereal like bran flakes or grape nuts (especially the generic versions etc.).
It's really a myth that it's cheaper to eat junk food. Yeah, some healthy stuff like fresh produce is pricey--but one can still at least eat frozen veggies as a side to a cheap healthy main course like whole wheat pasta etc. instead of french fries and a burger from McDonald's for the same or less cost per person and have a MUCH healthier meal.
While it's always nice to generalize those who make poor dietary choices as being lazy, the reality is that most of them simply have no other choice.
[/QUOTE]
That's not true really though. Junk food--chips, candy bars etc. are pretty pricey.
Even within categories, the healthy choice/lean cuisine etc. TV dinners are no more pricey that the super fatty "Hungry Man" tv dinners etc.
Plain frozen spinach is a good bit cheaper than the terribly fatty creamed spinach. The popular sugary cereals tend to cost more than healthy cereal like bran flakes or grape nuts (especially the generic versions etc.).
It's really a myth that it's cheaper to eat junk food. Yeah, some healthy stuff like fresh produce is pricey--but one can still at least eat frozen veggies as a side to a cheap healthy main course like whole wheat pasta etc. instead of french fries and a burger from McDonald's for the same or less cost per person and have a MUCH healthier meal.
Trancendental
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[quote name='budsmoka']I am fine with socialized healthcare, it seems to work in most of the world. What I am not okay with is paying for someones health problems that they brought upon them selfs by making unhealthy choices and being a fat ass. Smokers and drinkers have to pay taxes so why not people that consume unhealthy foods? I think things like sugary drinks,chips,sweets and all other food that provides no nutritional value should be taxed.[/QUOTE]
Uh, sugary drinks, chips, sweets and all other food that provides no nutritional value are taxed. Staple foods such as rice or beans are typically not taxed.
Uh, sugary drinks, chips, sweets and all other food that provides no nutritional value are taxed. Staple foods such as rice or beans are typically not taxed.
[quote name='camoor']Uh, sugary drinks, chips, sweets and all other food that provides no nutritional value are taxed. Staple foods such as rice or beans are typically not taxed.[/QUOTE]
Varies by state. Some tax all food period. Some none period. And some tax some junk foods, but not staples like bread, milk etc. No idea what the break down is on how many states do each though.
Varies by state. Some tax all food period. Some none period. And some tax some junk foods, but not staples like bread, milk etc. No idea what the break down is on how many states do each though.
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's not true really though. Junk food--chips, candy bars etc. are pretty pricey.
Even within categories, the healthy choice/lean cuisine etc. TV dinners are no more pricey that the super fatty "Hungry Man" tv dinners etc.
Plain frozen spinach is a good bit cheaper than the terribly fatty creamed spinach. The popular sugary cereals tend to cost more than healthy cereal like bran flakes or grape nuts (especially the generic versions etc.).
It's really a myth that it's cheaper to eat junk food. Yeah, some healthy stuff like fresh produce is pricey--but one can still at least eat frozen veggies as a side to a cheap healthy main course like whole wheat pasta etc. instead of french fries and a burger from McDonald's for the same or less cost per person and have a MUCH healthier meal.[/QUOTE]
That is true to an extent, but I also don't think people should be punished for their personal preferences. Personally, I can't stand most green, leafy vegetables. You can keep your spinach, your broccoli, etc. regardless of how they are prepared, I simply do not enjoy their taste, and I don't think even sitting on the panel of Iron Chef would be enough to get me to eat them. And those healthy choice TV dinners often times taste awful and provide very small portions, (although frozen TV Dinners as a whole are usually pretty revolting).
If you've been to the grocery store lately, a lot of the junk food items have lowered their prices to compete with the healthier alternatives you have mentioned. The sugary cereals which used to only be available in large boxes for $4 or so each are now usually available in smaller sized boxes, on sale for around $2 or so each. Those cheap smaller sized TV dinners that contain high school cafeteria grade steak and turkey are also available for around $1 each now as well.
Although I do agree that the prices of "healthy" choices are often overstated, I still feel I could go to the grocery store and buy enough high calorie, high sodium junk food to feed myself for a week, for less than $30 or so. Food that can be prepared and eaten in the span or less than a half hour, compared to healthy vegetables and stuff that require more preparation time, and effort to make palatable. Time and effort that many working people simply don't have to devote .
Even within categories, the healthy choice/lean cuisine etc. TV dinners are no more pricey that the super fatty "Hungry Man" tv dinners etc.
Plain frozen spinach is a good bit cheaper than the terribly fatty creamed spinach. The popular sugary cereals tend to cost more than healthy cereal like bran flakes or grape nuts (especially the generic versions etc.).
It's really a myth that it's cheaper to eat junk food. Yeah, some healthy stuff like fresh produce is pricey--but one can still at least eat frozen veggies as a side to a cheap healthy main course like whole wheat pasta etc. instead of french fries and a burger from McDonald's for the same or less cost per person and have a MUCH healthier meal.[/QUOTE]
That is true to an extent, but I also don't think people should be punished for their personal preferences. Personally, I can't stand most green, leafy vegetables. You can keep your spinach, your broccoli, etc. regardless of how they are prepared, I simply do not enjoy their taste, and I don't think even sitting on the panel of Iron Chef would be enough to get me to eat them. And those healthy choice TV dinners often times taste awful and provide very small portions, (although frozen TV Dinners as a whole are usually pretty revolting).
If you've been to the grocery store lately, a lot of the junk food items have lowered their prices to compete with the healthier alternatives you have mentioned. The sugary cereals which used to only be available in large boxes for $4 or so each are now usually available in smaller sized boxes, on sale for around $2 or so each. Those cheap smaller sized TV dinners that contain high school cafeteria grade steak and turkey are also available for around $1 each now as well.
Although I do agree that the prices of "healthy" choices are often overstated, I still feel I could go to the grocery store and buy enough high calorie, high sodium junk food to feed myself for a week, for less than $30 or so. Food that can be prepared and eaten in the span or less than a half hour, compared to healthy vegetables and stuff that require more preparation time, and effort to make palatable. Time and effort that many working people simply don't have to devote .
[quote name='spmahn']That is true to an extent, but I also don't think people should be punished for their personal preferences. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I don't really either.
I don't have much respect for people who eat poorly, don't exercise and let themselves get overweight as I just don't have respect for people with lack of discipline etc. But I don't want to punish them, I just don't befriend them just like I don't people I lack respect for for other reasons. But that's just human nature, we socialize and respect those who are similar to us on things we place high value on.
The only stickler is I hate seeing everyone get punished with higher premiums as health care costs skyrocket in part with all the health problems that come along with a nationwide obesity epidemic.
But again I don't see a tax as a way to deal with that. Maybe give healthy people discounts on their insurance like safe drivers get discounts on their car insurance. But I don't really like the idea of punishing people who are unhealthy. Just give some type of reward to people who are healthy and are lower risk to insurance companies!
Otherwise, focus on health and exercise in schools, have a big public awareness campaign that's not just telling people to diet and exercise but educating about HFCS and other things to avoid, and why they are harmful etc.
[quote name='spmahn']
Although I do agree that the prices of "healthy" choices are often overstated, I still feel I could go to the grocery store and buy enough high calorie, high sodium junk food to feed myself for a week, for less than $30 or so. Food that can be prepared and eaten in the span or less than a half hour, compared to healthy vegetables and stuff that require more preparation time, and effort to make palatable. Time and effort that many working people simply don't have to devote .[/QUOTE]
That time thing is also a myth. It takes me 15 minutes or so to cook most of my meals and those are things like fresh vegetables (don't boil them more than 5 mins or you lose nutrients), grilled chicken breasts on the Foreman grill, Boca burgers, whole wheat pasta and marinara sauce, baked sweet potatoes (9-10 minutes in the microwave) etc. etc. etc.
I'm a college prof, I stay busy as balls during the academic year with teaching and trying to keep up on research and committee work etc--it's like having too full time jobs at times! I usually find time to cook, and if I don't I eat something like a salad or a lean cuisine tv dinner etc. I'll grab fast food every once in a while, and I eat some junk food, I'm not a total health buff. But even when I was working 70-80 hours a week I found time to eat healthy 95% of the time.
No knock on you, it's not your bag. But the price and time thing is really just an excuse IMO.
Yeah, I don't really either.
I don't have much respect for people who eat poorly, don't exercise and let themselves get overweight as I just don't have respect for people with lack of discipline etc. But I don't want to punish them, I just don't befriend them just like I don't people I lack respect for for other reasons. But that's just human nature, we socialize and respect those who are similar to us on things we place high value on.
The only stickler is I hate seeing everyone get punished with higher premiums as health care costs skyrocket in part with all the health problems that come along with a nationwide obesity epidemic.
But again I don't see a tax as a way to deal with that. Maybe give healthy people discounts on their insurance like safe drivers get discounts on their car insurance. But I don't really like the idea of punishing people who are unhealthy. Just give some type of reward to people who are healthy and are lower risk to insurance companies!
Otherwise, focus on health and exercise in schools, have a big public awareness campaign that's not just telling people to diet and exercise but educating about HFCS and other things to avoid, and why they are harmful etc.
[quote name='spmahn']
Although I do agree that the prices of "healthy" choices are often overstated, I still feel I could go to the grocery store and buy enough high calorie, high sodium junk food to feed myself for a week, for less than $30 or so. Food that can be prepared and eaten in the span or less than a half hour, compared to healthy vegetables and stuff that require more preparation time, and effort to make palatable. Time and effort that many working people simply don't have to devote .[/QUOTE]
That time thing is also a myth. It takes me 15 minutes or so to cook most of my meals and those are things like fresh vegetables (don't boil them more than 5 mins or you lose nutrients), grilled chicken breasts on the Foreman grill, Boca burgers, whole wheat pasta and marinara sauce, baked sweet potatoes (9-10 minutes in the microwave) etc. etc. etc.
I'm a college prof, I stay busy as balls during the academic year with teaching and trying to keep up on research and committee work etc--it's like having too full time jobs at times! I usually find time to cook, and if I don't I eat something like a salad or a lean cuisine tv dinner etc. I'll grab fast food every once in a while, and I eat some junk food, I'm not a total health buff. But even when I was working 70-80 hours a week I found time to eat healthy 95% of the time.
No knock on you, it's not your bag. But the price and time thing is really just an excuse IMO.
Paco
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I dunno Dmaul. You educate kids about diet and exercise then cut out recess and shorten the lunch break so they have even less playing time. Then in highschool for shits and giggles you cut out PE. That's something that could stand to be fixed.
But expecting everyone to quit cold turkey with all the addictive additives they put in their stuff, it's like telling a smoker to quit smoking. Just won't work. Have you ever ate those Mexican Wafers? The one that taste like NOTHING yet you can't stop eating for some weird reason? THAT is American food as a whole.
But expecting everyone to quit cold turkey with all the addictive additives they put in their stuff, it's like telling a smoker to quit smoking. Just won't work. Have you ever ate those Mexican Wafers? The one that taste like NOTHING yet you can't stop eating for some weird reason? THAT is American food as a whole.
Feeding the Abscess
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As someone who eats mostly organic and as natural as reasonably possible (instead of buying organic tomato sauce, I buy tomatoes, herbs and spices and go from there), I can't agree that it's cheaper to eat the way I eat as opposed to buying highly processed, "commercialized" food (especially store brand items). Of course, I take my food choices very seriously, so I'm kind of an outlier. But minimally processed items are typically going to be more expensive than their mass produced counterparts, and eating a well balanced diet is definitely going to be more expensive than going the Hamburger Helper route.
In my experience of designing diets for a broad range of situations - from high schoolers looking to gain weight to people looking to cut cholesterol to diabetics to uneducated folk to people with multiple degrees - most people don't make poor food choices because they know better and choose to neglect their health. They make poor food choices out of ignorance. Some are willfully ignorant (they don't investigate what is in their foods or what nutritional values foods hold), but many just don't know that what they eat may be something less than good for them (adding ranch dressing and croutons negates the purpose of a salad, as an example).
In my experience of designing diets for a broad range of situations - from high schoolers looking to gain weight to people looking to cut cholesterol to diabetics to uneducated folk to people with multiple degrees - most people don't make poor food choices because they know better and choose to neglect their health. They make poor food choices out of ignorance. Some are willfully ignorant (they don't investigate what is in their foods or what nutritional values foods hold), but many just don't know that what they eat may be something less than good for them (adding ranch dressing and croutons negates the purpose of a salad, as an example).
Trancendental
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Varies by state. Some tax all food period. Some none period. And some tax some junk foods, but not staples like bread, milk etc. No idea what the break down is on how many states do each though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah me neither. Around here (MD/VA/DC) they tax prepared food, but don't tax the staples. That seems right to me.
Yeah me neither. Around here (MD/VA/DC) they tax prepared food, but don't tax the staples. That seems right to me.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='SpeedyG']I'm still trying to figure out how people only spend $5 a day on food period, much less about how they can actually do it in a healthful manner...[/QUOTE]
Brown rice is 4-5 cents per ounce.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.
Brown rice is 4-5 cents per ounce.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.
Trancendental
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Brown rice is 4-5 cents per ounce.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
I can do you one better.
Instead of baked beans, get a can of plain beans and add some olive oil, a little salt and pepper, that will probably run you a dinner that's under 2 bucks. Ditto on two slices of whole wheat bread with peanut butter. Ifyou want to be a little more decadent, egg on toast with some vegetarian sausage on the side is also an option. Nuke some frozen peas, follow up with a piece of fruit for desert, and you've got a cheap, convenient, and fast dinner that's healthy enough.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
I can do you one better.
Instead of baked beans, get a can of plain beans and add some olive oil, a little salt and pepper, that will probably run you a dinner that's under 2 bucks. Ditto on two slices of whole wheat bread with peanut butter. Ifyou want to be a little more decadent, egg on toast with some vegetarian sausage on the side is also an option. Nuke some frozen peas, follow up with a piece of fruit for desert, and you've got a cheap, convenient, and fast dinner that's healthy enough.
rodeojones903
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Taxing junk food and subsidizing the components of junk food is the way to go?
[/QUOTE]
This. Taxing junk food and fast food is basically a tax on the poor.
[/QUOTE]
This. Taxing junk food and fast food is basically a tax on the poor.
perdition(troy
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Instead of taxing junk food, just tax fat people.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Brown rice is 4-5 cents per ounce.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
If you are simply talking sustenance, then you have a point. I know you have kids, could you get away with this? In my house it would be lord of the flies in less than an hour.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
If you are simply talking sustenance, then you have a point. I know you have kids, could you get away with this? In my house it would be lord of the flies in less than an hour.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='xxDOYLExx']If you are simply talking sustenance, then you have a point. I know you have kids, could you get away with this? In my house it would be lord of the flies in less than an hour.[/QUOTE]
Have you tried the back of your hand?
Have you tried the back of your hand?
It's a free country, if people want to live an unhealthy lifestyle, they have the right to do so. They should also have to bear the burden of higher insurance premiums to compensate for it while healthier people should be permitted to pay less..... oh wait, we decided that was a bad thing now.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='dopa345']It's a free country, if people want to live an unhealthy lifestyle, they have the right to do so. They should also have to bear the burden of higher insurance premiums to compensate for it while healthier people should be permitted to pay less..... oh wait, we decided that was a bad thing now.[/QUOTE]
yeah, it's strange. I haven't heard anyone complain about higher premiums for higher risk with P&C or life insurance.
yeah, it's strange. I haven't heard anyone complain about higher premiums for higher risk with P&C or life insurance.
[quote name='Paco']I dunno Dmaul. You educate kids about diet and exercise then cut out recess and shorten the lunch break so they have even less playing time. Then in highschool for shits and giggles you cut out PE. That's something that could stand to be fixed.
[/QUOTE]
Oh absolutely. The educational component is just one part of it. We need more PE in schools, healthier school meals etc. Maybe make breakfast and lunch required parts of the school day, rather than just lunch with breakfast optional so kids can get at least two low fat meals a day (again have to improve school food first).
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']As someone who eats mostly organic and as natural as reasonably possible (instead of buying organic tomato sauce, I buy tomatoes, herbs and spices and go from there), I can't agree that it's cheaper to eat the way I eat as opposed to buying highly processed, "commercialized" food (especially store brand items).[/QUOTE]
Sure, but we're talking just eating healthier. Avoiding high fat, high calorie foods, absurdly large portions, sugary foods, HFCS etc.
One does have to go to the health nut extreme of eating organic etc. to be healthier and keep their weight down. Just avoid high fat. Eat reasonable portions so you're not exceeding the calories you need, avoid HFCS as much as possible etc.
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']If you are simply talking sustenance, then you have a point. I know you have kids, could you get away with this? In my house it would be lord of the flies in less than an hour.[/QUOTE]
That's the problem of having to change.
If you eat healthy before having kids and they've always eaten healthy, it's not Lord of the Flies as it's all they've known growing up.
If they've been eating tons of junk food, pizza etc. etc., then yeah, making a change will be met with a ton of resistance.
If they've been eating healthy with junk food and pizza as the occasional treats they should be--rather than staples of a diet--then there should be few problems.
So yeah, it's very, very hard to make changes--especially with kids. That's why it needs to start from the ground up in changing social habits etc. It's not a problem we can solve this generation, but over a few generations.
[/QUOTE]
Oh absolutely. The educational component is just one part of it. We need more PE in schools, healthier school meals etc. Maybe make breakfast and lunch required parts of the school day, rather than just lunch with breakfast optional so kids can get at least two low fat meals a day (again have to improve school food first).
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']As someone who eats mostly organic and as natural as reasonably possible (instead of buying organic tomato sauce, I buy tomatoes, herbs and spices and go from there), I can't agree that it's cheaper to eat the way I eat as opposed to buying highly processed, "commercialized" food (especially store brand items).[/QUOTE]
Sure, but we're talking just eating healthier. Avoiding high fat, high calorie foods, absurdly large portions, sugary foods, HFCS etc.
One does have to go to the health nut extreme of eating organic etc. to be healthier and keep their weight down. Just avoid high fat. Eat reasonable portions so you're not exceeding the calories you need, avoid HFCS as much as possible etc.
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']If you are simply talking sustenance, then you have a point. I know you have kids, could you get away with this? In my house it would be lord of the flies in less than an hour.[/QUOTE]
That's the problem of having to change.
If you eat healthy before having kids and they've always eaten healthy, it's not Lord of the Flies as it's all they've known growing up.
If they've been eating tons of junk food, pizza etc. etc., then yeah, making a change will be met with a ton of resistance.
If they've been eating healthy with junk food and pizza as the occasional treats they should be--rather than staples of a diet--then there should be few problems.
So yeah, it's very, very hard to make changes--especially with kids. That's why it needs to start from the ground up in changing social habits etc. It's not a problem we can solve this generation, but over a few generations.
dannyox718
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Hey OP, I for the most part agree with you. Junk food is not a necessity and can cause health issues. The higher tax may even turn people off from eating them.
not sure if someone else brought this up yet, but you promote smoking buds....?
not sure if someone else brought this up yet, but you promote smoking buds....?
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='dmaul1114']
That's the problem of having to change.
If you eat healthy before having kids and they've always eaten healthy, it's not Lord of the Flies as it's all they've known growing up.
If they've been eating tons of junk food, pizza etc. etc., then yeah, making a change will be met with a ton of resistance.
If they've been eating healthy with junk food and pizza as the occasional treats they should be--rather than staples of a diet--then there should be few problems.
So yeah, it's very, very hard to make changes--especially with kids. That's why it needs to start from the ground up in changing social habits etc. It's not a problem we can solve this generation, but over a few generations.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
My wife and I (She to a larger extent) ate healthy before we had kids and we still do.
The struggle is with the kids.
Our twins had low birth weights and 5 years later still struggle to gain. As a result, their Dr. has suggested a high fat high calorie diet. This means a lot of tasty (IMO crappy) food. My biggest concern is the formation of bad eating habit's you mention. It has also made them extremely picky eaters. If we ever have to put them on a diet, it will be a living hell. But I'll do it.
That's the problem of having to change.
If you eat healthy before having kids and they've always eaten healthy, it's not Lord of the Flies as it's all they've known growing up.
If they've been eating tons of junk food, pizza etc. etc., then yeah, making a change will be met with a ton of resistance.
If they've been eating healthy with junk food and pizza as the occasional treats they should be--rather than staples of a diet--then there should be few problems.
So yeah, it's very, very hard to make changes--especially with kids. That's why it needs to start from the ground up in changing social habits etc. It's not a problem we can solve this generation, but over a few generations.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
My wife and I (She to a larger extent) ate healthy before we had kids and we still do.
The struggle is with the kids.
Our twins had low birth weights and 5 years later still struggle to gain. As a result, their Dr. has suggested a high fat high calorie diet. This means a lot of tasty (IMO crappy) food. My biggest concern is the formation of bad eating habit's you mention. It has also made them extremely picky eaters. If we ever have to put them on a diet, it will be a living hell. But I'll do it.
This conversation reminds me of King of the Hill.
Bill> I had onions for dinner last night. You can get a pound for 49 cents!
Also, I will sign off on using beans and rice as your primary food to eat on the cheap. That's how tons of families around the world live. You could easily live on that and other staples if you buy in bulk and absolutely use/eat all of it.
I've always wanted to cook a meal and calculate absolutely how much it costs. I.e., cost of turning on the stove/oven, cost of oils/spices, time it takes to cook, and include all of the cleanup. Then compare that to getting food from somewhere. I'm wondering if it all evens out at some point. I could survive fairly cheaply if I wanted, but I just love chicken wings and chinese food too much.
Bill> I had onions for dinner last night. You can get a pound for 49 cents!
Also, I will sign off on using beans and rice as your primary food to eat on the cheap. That's how tons of families around the world live. You could easily live on that and other staples if you buy in bulk and absolutely use/eat all of it.
I've always wanted to cook a meal and calculate absolutely how much it costs. I.e., cost of turning on the stove/oven, cost of oils/spices, time it takes to cook, and include all of the cleanup. Then compare that to getting food from somewhere. I'm wondering if it all evens out at some point. I could survive fairly cheaply if I wanted, but I just love chicken wings and chinese food too much.
It's much cheaper to eat at home than eat out. Especially if you're comparing similar quality food etc.
Obviously you'll spend a bit more per person on a nice 4 course meal at home than getting a kid's meal at McDonald's. But way cheaper than picking up a similar amount and quality of food from a carryout place etc.
For instance I spent $2.xx on brocolli, $7 on a pack of 6 or 7 boneless chicken breasts, $10 for a big bag of rice--use way less than $1 worth per time I cook it as I get way more than 10 meals out of it. But let's just say $1.
So that's a total of $10. And I had left overs so I got 3 dinners out of that. So about $3.33 per meal. take a on a few cents for gas and electric for cooking and cleaning dishes etc. (I don't pay for water, so just a couple drops of soap I guess). I drank filtered water with the meals--again no cost as it's in the condo fee.
So that's cheaper than even most fast food combos, and much healthier.
Obviously you'll spend a bit more per person on a nice 4 course meal at home than getting a kid's meal at McDonald's. But way cheaper than picking up a similar amount and quality of food from a carryout place etc.
For instance I spent $2.xx on brocolli, $7 on a pack of 6 or 7 boneless chicken breasts, $10 for a big bag of rice--use way less than $1 worth per time I cook it as I get way more than 10 meals out of it. But let's just say $1.
So that's a total of $10. And I had left overs so I got 3 dinners out of that. So about $3.33 per meal. take a on a few cents for gas and electric for cooking and cleaning dishes etc. (I don't pay for water, so just a couple drops of soap I guess). I drank filtered water with the meals--again no cost as it's in the condo fee.
So that's cheaper than even most fast food combos, and much healthier.
elessar123
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Brown rice is 4-5 cents per ounce.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
This is definitely not healthy though. Also, for where I live:
Condensed chicken noodle soup is also more like $1.89 here. Sometimes you can find them on sale for $0.69 (I recall 3 times since I moved here).
Loaf of store baked break is $1.49. I know, because I buy store baked sourdough.
Eggs... may be 20 cents a pop, but it's not recommended to eat more than 1 egg yolk a day.
Baked beans is one of the most unhealthy foods. High in sugar and calories. Get refried beans instead.
Carrots I can typically find for $1 a pound, so I beat you there =P
Potatoes are $0.99 a pound. I can find $0.59/lb but they're all sprouting and green, which means toxins.
Bananas are $0.69 a lb at least. Go to a farmer's market, and it'd be more like $1 a finger!
Canned vegetables aren't very good for you either afaik. Get frozen instead, which is still pretty cheap ($2 for 1lb, roughly). http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=1065
Margarine is DEFINITELY worse for you than low fat butter as well.
Unless you like apples and bananas (which I don't), fruit's also expensive. At $1-$2 a mango, $0.50 a kiwi, etc....
One thing people don't eat enough of are probably yams. Relatively cheap, delicious, and good for you.
A can of condensed Chicken Noodle soup is routinely below 50 cents per can.
A loaf of store baked bread is $1.
Eggs are less than 20 cents a pop.
A can of baked beans is less than $2.
Carrots are less than $5 for three pounds.
Potatoes are less than 50 cents a pound.
Bananas are less than 50 cents a pound.
Almost any canned vegetable is less than $1 a pound.
Margarine is usually less than $5 for three pounds.
You can't get the convenience of a drivethru for $5 a day, but a stove, running water and some free time can easily keep your stomach full for less than $5 per day.[/QUOTE]
This is definitely not healthy though. Also, for where I live:
Condensed chicken noodle soup is also more like $1.89 here. Sometimes you can find them on sale for $0.69 (I recall 3 times since I moved here).
Loaf of store baked break is $1.49. I know, because I buy store baked sourdough.
Eggs... may be 20 cents a pop, but it's not recommended to eat more than 1 egg yolk a day.
Baked beans is one of the most unhealthy foods. High in sugar and calories. Get refried beans instead.
Carrots I can typically find for $1 a pound, so I beat you there =P
Potatoes are $0.99 a pound. I can find $0.59/lb but they're all sprouting and green, which means toxins.
Bananas are $0.69 a lb at least. Go to a farmer's market, and it'd be more like $1 a finger!
Canned vegetables aren't very good for you either afaik. Get frozen instead, which is still pretty cheap ($2 for 1lb, roughly). http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=1065
Margarine is DEFINITELY worse for you than low fat butter as well.
Unless you like apples and bananas (which I don't), fruit's also expensive. At $1-$2 a mango, $0.50 a kiwi, etc....
One thing people don't eat enough of are probably yams. Relatively cheap, delicious, and good for you.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Strell']I've always wanted to cook a meal and calculate absolutely how much it costs. I.e., cost of turning on the stove/oven, cost of oils/spices, time it takes to cook, and include all of the cleanup. Then compare that to getting food from somewhere. I'm wondering if it all evens out at some point. I could survive fairly cheaply if I wanted, but I just love chicken wings and chinese food too much. [/QUOTE]
There are some Peruvian chicken joints around here that are damn tasty and dirt cheap. Also when it comes to stuff like fresh guacamole (Ie the refrigerated stuff, not the green oil in a can) it is actually probably cheaper just to buy the packaged stuff. Otherwise you almost always come out on top by making it on your own.
[/QUOTE]There are some Peruvian chicken joints around here that are damn tasty and dirt cheap. Also when it comes to stuff like fresh guacamole (Ie the refrigerated stuff, not the green oil in a can) it is actually probably cheaper just to buy the packaged stuff. Otherwise you almost always come out on top by making it on your own.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='Strell']
I've always wanted to cook a meal and calculate absolutely how much it costs. I.e., cost of turning on the stove/oven, cost of oils/spices, time it takes to cook, and include all of the cleanup. Then compare that to getting food from somewhere. I'm wondering if it all evens out at some point. I could survive fairly cheaply if I wanted, but I just love chicken wings and chinese food too much.[/QUOTE]
If anyone can make a good time out of this, its you, my man.
I've always wanted to cook a meal and calculate absolutely how much it costs. I.e., cost of turning on the stove/oven, cost of oils/spices, time it takes to cook, and include all of the cleanup. Then compare that to getting food from somewhere. I'm wondering if it all evens out at some point. I could survive fairly cheaply if I wanted, but I just love chicken wings and chinese food too much.
[/QUOTE]If anyone can make a good time out of this, its you, my man.
thrustbucket
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I can't stand clean up time. I can't stand dishes. Cleaning up from cooking a decent meal usually takes nearly as much time as cooking it. I'd usually choose to starve or wait to eat out or at someone else's house than make a mess I know I won't clean up.
To compensate for this I buy an awful lot of disposable dishes, but I am sure that negates the 'savings' you might get from not eating out quite a bit.
To compensate for this I buy an awful lot of disposable dishes, but I am sure that negates the 'savings' you might get from not eating out quite a bit.
So - many people like the idea of taxing something (Junk food, cigarettes, beer, etc.) because these things can lead to medical conditions that raise the costs of health care.
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.
[quote name='thrustbucket']I can't stand clean up time. I can't stand dishes.Cleaning up from cooking a decent meal usually takes nearly as much time as cooking it. I'd usually choose to starve or wait to eat out or at someone else's house than make a mess I know I won't clean up.[/QUOTE]
I used to be of the same mind and would order out all the time. My new place is very tricky for delivery drivers to find, which has discouraged me from ordering much delivery, which has had the result of me cooking far more meals at home than I ever have. I've been shocked by how painless clean-up is for the most part, though a big part of that for sure is having a dishwasher. I haven't calculated it yet, but I'm saving a ton of money obviously.
I used to be of the same mind and would order out all the time. My new place is very tricky for delivery drivers to find, which has discouraged me from ordering much delivery, which has had the result of me cooking far more meals at home than I ever have. I've been shocked by how painless clean-up is for the most part, though a big part of that for sure is having a dishwasher. I haven't calculated it yet, but I'm saving a ton of money obviously.
[quote name='UncleBob']So - many people like the idea of taxing something (Junk food, cigarettes, beer, etc.) because these things can lead to medical conditions that raise the costs of health care.
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.[/QUOTE]
I'm not really sure exactly where I stand on "fat taxes", but I can't imagine that you don't see the difference between drinking beer and being short. No one can be that dense.
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.[/QUOTE]
I'm not really sure exactly where I stand on "fat taxes", but I can't imagine that you don't see the difference between drinking beer and being short. No one can be that dense.
[quote name='UncleBob']So - many people like the idea of taxing something (Junk food, cigarettes, beer, etc.) because these things can lead to medical conditions that raise the costs of health care.
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.[/QUOTE]
"Yes, I'd like a pack of Luckys, and four inches chopped. NO not from there!"
Short people are more likely to have heart disease problems than tall people. So, if being short can lead to heart problems, let's tax short people.[/QUOTE]
"Yes, I'd like a pack of Luckys, and four inches chopped. NO not from there!"
[quote name='bvharris']I'm not really sure exactly where I stand on "fat taxes", but I can't imagine that you don't see the difference between drinking beer and being short. No one can be that dense.[/QUOTE]
Both things *can* cause medical complications.
The idea of a "Fat Tax" is to put extra taxes on things that could potentially lead to medical problems, right?
Both things *can* cause medical complications.
The idea of a "Fat Tax" is to put extra taxes on things that could potentially lead to medical problems, right?
[quote name='UncleBob']Both things *can* cause medical complications.
The idea of a "Fat Tax" is to put extra taxes on things that could potentially lead to medical problems, right?[/QUOTE]
Drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, eating junk food - What do these things have in common that being short doesn't share?
Hint: It rhymes with voice.
The idea of a "Fat Tax" is to put extra taxes on things that could potentially lead to medical problems, right?[/QUOTE]
Drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, eating junk food - What do these things have in common that being short doesn't share?
Hint: It rhymes with voice.
[quote name='Strell']I saw we tax people more likely to get hit by meteors because of their abnormally large heads. We'll start with Sean Penn.[/QUOTE]
Let's cut to the chase and tax the stupid since they have a better chance of falling through open manholes. We just need to figure out whether to start with the minorities or the fats (at least those not TOO fat to fit through said manholes).
Let's cut to the chase and tax the stupid since they have a better chance of falling through open manholes. We just need to figure out whether to start with the minorities or the fats (at least those not TOO fat to fit through said manholes).
bread's done