The 2008 MLB Season Thread (Update: Phillies Won)

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[quote name='DJSteel']fucking Pirates.. I hate baseball.. they could have gotten more... this is part of the reason they lose so fucking much...

I want one of two things to happen to the Pirates:

1 - I want the owner to sell the team to someone who will spend to keep them competitive.
2 - I want MLB to step in an stop this BS.
a - create a salary cap (it will never happen)
b - I want them to force the owner to either spend or sell.

Seriously, there is more to baseball than NY, Boston, and Chicago.. but everyone is blind to that fact...if baseball was competitive with their salaries then you could have big stars in small markets like the NFL and NHL... I'm sick and tired of this bulshit.. I'm sell my MLB the show and I will no longer support or watch MLB..[/QUOTE]
The league doesn't have a cap, but small market teams are kept competitive by revenue sharing. If those teams choose to pocket that money as profit as the Marlins and Pirates do, instead of investing it into the team, thats not MLB's fault. The method by which they level the playing field is the very thing keeping those bad owners in place, its solely the owner's fault for not being interested in winning.

I'm sure Selig and 29 teams would love a cap, but the PA will never, ever allow it. Unlike the NFLPA, they're extremely powerful.
 
[quote name='DomLando']Well there goes the Blake idea. After last night it is clear the Mets should get a relief pitcher. There OF is doing fine and they really don't need to worry about that until the offseason.

Sanchez is struggling big time as of late so is Feliciano. Heilman is still inconsistent, and Muniz, well don't get me started on him. An 8th inning guy would be great. I just don't want them to give up to many prospects as their farm system is depleted as it is.[/quote]


yeah i saw what happend last night. They couldnt even hold a lead for a minor league pitcher..and they had all the run support in the world. Yeah a link to Wags would be great. Yeah but there going to have to give up atleast 1 and its definitley wont be fernando martinez....I just hope for the world he isnt lastings milledge.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The league doesn't have a cap, but small market teams are kept competitive by revenue sharing. If those teams choose to pocket that money as profit as the Marlins and Pirates do, instead of investing it into the team, thats not MLB's fault. The method by which they level the playing field is the very thing keeping those bad owners in place, its solely the owner's fault for not being interested in winning.

I'm sure Selig and 29 teams would love a cap, but the PA will never, ever allow it. Unlike the NFLPA, they're extremely powerful.[/quote]


Revenue sharing is a joke.. such a joke the the Yankees are even paying it this year... the money that they give these teams is so little that they can't even really use it to get better...also most teams just pocket the money.. it is the MLB's fault because they should be making sure they are spending the money... walk in my shoes for a bit and you will see how bad baseball economics really is..

Eventually MLB will need a salary cap.. and they'll will need to break that union to do that...
 
[quote name='DJSteel']Revenue sharing is a joke.. such a joke the the Yankees are even paying it this year... the money that they give these teams is so little that they can't even really use it to get better...also most teams just pocket the money.. it is the MLB's fault because they should be making sure they are spending the money... walk in my shoes for a bit and you will see how bad baseball economics really is.. [/QUOTE]
The Marlins are getting $25 million in revenue sharing this year. Thats a joke? The joke is that their owner chooses to spend $21 million on payroll.

Pittsburgh got $25 million last year, and more this year. Thats not chump change. But instead of growing their fan base, they're pocketing that money. Blame that cheap motherfucker, not MLB. They're not getting a salary cap, not now, not ever. And they want one even more than you do.

Yes, they should do what the NHL does and force teams that receive revenue sharing to spend mandatory amounts and have increasing attendance levels. The top 10 teams want that, and I think Selig wants that. But most of the league will reject that. On top of that, the PA opposes any salary floor.
 
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This Manny saga is growing quite old with me. Of course if we trade him we better get some good stuff. Like, a very good setup man, a stud prospect OF and maybe another decent prospect.
 
[quote name='Regian']I don't know what's been up with this team since the start of the month, but the bats are just plain dead. Granted, the bats have been inconsistent practically all season. But nine times out of ten when that happened they got a good pitching performance from whoever started.

Carlos Marmol appears to have went from penthouse to doghouse. Dude was lights out the first half of the season, now he's making me rip my hair out. Fukudome seems to be suffering from some sort of mental block, methinks. He just can't seem to get ahold of anything as of late.

As much as everyoine is wanting the Cubs to pull of one more trade to improve the bullpen, Samardzija shows some promise. I'm not sure what the plan is when Kerry Wood comes off the DL, but I'd prefer to see Samardzija stay in the bullpen. If someone has to go, send Howry down.

These guys need a serious kick in the ass somehow. Let's hope it shows up when they hit Milwaukee on Monday. They seriously need it.[/quote]

Samardijza earned his first save pitching 2 perfect innings. I hope he will continue to pitch well. The four game series that starts tomorrow is going to be huge for both teams. We have to split at the very worst.

Seems like the Cardinals patchwork rotation is finally starting to come back down to earth.
 
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fucking manny pulling this shit during one of the bigger series of the season



BOSTON (AP)—Manny Ramirez is “tired” of the Boston Red Sox and would agree to a trade that would make both him and the team happy.
But he doesn’t think it will happen and Boston, battling for a playoff spot, needs the production of their cleanup hitter despite its oft-contentious relationship with him.
Four days before the non-waiver trading deadline, Ramirez said Sunday, “I’m tired of them. They’re tired of me.”
The Red Sox have until Nov. 9 to pick up a $20 million option for next year on Ramirez, who would have to approve any trade as a 10-year veteran with five years on the same team. They also have a $20 million option for 2010. Ramirez is in the final year of his guaranteed eight-year, $160 million contract.
Ramirez spoke for less than two minutes in Boston’s clubhouse before Sunday night’s game with the New York Yankees.
On Friday, he said he couldn’t play because of a sore right knee and manager Terry Francona scratched him from the original lineup. MRIs on both knees then “came back fine,” Francona said, and Ramirez started Saturday and was in the lineup again Sunday.

b

He also missed last Wednesday’s game at Seattle with what he said was a sore knee. The Red Sox were off Thursday.
Ramirez originally told ESPNdeportes.com on Sunday that he wouldn’t object to a trade if the Red Sox are better without him.
Later, in the clubhouse, he said, “What I said was, if the Red Sox think they can find a trade that’s going to make their team better and both sides are going to be happy, I’m going to agree. But they cannot find a trade. It’s something simple. It’s no big deal.”
Francona said before the game that he wasn’t aware of the ESPNdeportes interview.
And he didn’t know if Ramirez was in a good mood.
“I’m not sure that matters,” Francona said. “I’d take a guy that’s hitting .500 that’s miserable as opposed to a guy that hands out bouquets to his teammates and is hitting a buck 45. … You move on. The goal is to get better from it. I think we’ve done a good job of that here.”
Ramirez’s remarks came while the Red Sox are struggling and the Yankees are closing in. After New York’s 10-3 win Saturday, New York was 8-0 since the All-Star break and one game behind second-place Boston in the AL East. Tampa Bay leads the Red Sox, who are 3-5 since the break, by two games.
Ramirez asked to be traded after the 2005 and 2006 seasons but doesn’t expect to be traded during this season.
“That’s not going to happen,” he said. “They’re not stupid. Boston is not stupid. They can say whatever they want but when it comes to make a deal, they’re not going to pull the trigger because they know what they got here.”
Ramirez entered Sunday’s game batting .298 with 19 homers and 63 RBIs in 96 games. He has 509 career homers, 23rd on the all-time list and two behind Mel Ott. He hit his 500th on May 31 at Baltimore.
“At the end of the season, all they got to do is call my agent and say, ‘Hey, we’re not going to pick up Manny’s option for ‘09, he’s going to become a free agent,’ ” Ramirez said. “That’s it. I go my way and you guys go your way, something simple.”
He switched agents this year to Scott Boras from Greg Genske.
Ramirez told the Boston Herald during the All-Star break that he wanted to know what his situation was and that he didn’t want the club to “tell you one thing and behind your back they do another thing.”
Team owner John Henry said he found that “personally offensive.”
Ramirez said Sunday, “I don’t want to talk to them about contracts right now. So what? Enough is enough. I’m tired of them. They’re tired of me, and after 2008, just send me a letter, whatever.
“You don’t even have to call my agent. ‘Thank you for everything, you’re going to become a free agent. We’re not going to pick up your option in ‘09.’ “
On Sunday, Ramirez said, “I’m happy, but enough is enough.”
Ramirez told ESPNdeportes that he thinks he has knee tendinitis and denied faking injuries. He also told it he doesn’t have any preference for a team he’d want to be traded to.
“I could choose a team that offers me the best conditions or one in the chase for the postseason,” he told ESPNdeportes. “I don’t care where I play, I can even play in Iraq if need be. My job is to play baseball.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_y...vLYF?slug=ap-redsox-ramirez&prov=ap&type=lgns


I bolded the important shit
 
I'm so tired of the high praise Arod gets for his inflated numbers. I'm glad ESPN just flashed his stats with RISP. .238 with RISP with 2 outs and .258 with RISP, he's such a fucking choke artist and I hate him.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The Marlins are getting $25 million in revenue sharing this year. Thats a joke? The joke is that their owner chooses to spend $21 million on payroll.

Pittsburgh got $25 million last year, and more this year. Thats not chump change. But instead of growing their fan base, they're pocketing that money. Blame that cheap motherfucker, not MLB. They're not getting a salary cap, not now, not ever. And they want one even more than you do.

Yes, they should do what the NHL does and force teams that receive revenue sharing to spend mandatory amounts and have increasing attendance levels. The top 10 teams want that, and I think Selig wants that. But most of the league will reject that. On top of that, the PA opposes any salary floor.[/quote]

It's not that much when superstars are getting around 18-20 mil a year... again leaving only the big markets able to pick him up.. add in the loophole that allows the Yankees to take their share of what they put in to the revenue sharing to pay for their new stadium.. it's not what you would expect.. that's okay.. there will be like 8 teams left and no one will care...

I don't expect you to understand since Boston is one of the biggest spenders out there...
 
$25mill is more then enough considering that is roughly 1/2 of what pitts total team payroll is. Yes, top of the line free agents are commanding in that range per year but when you ownership is putting in less then what the league is giving them you have no right to bitch about the league. The wealthy teams are the ones paying for over 1/2 your teams payroll. You can complain about it all you want. A salary floor/ceiling would be nice as I don't like the premadonna some of these players have become (see manny) with the money they make but the fact of the matter is the players union is not going to allow that to happen. The only one at fault is the pirates ownership. The pirates were a solid competitive team just over a decade ago. They have opted to go on the cheap. They need better talent scouts and they need to spend money up to at least $75 - $80 million.

Spending more money doesn't = wins. There are 3 teams below the pirates in payroll, and all 3 are in contention for a playoff spot in marlins and rays. Oakland was in contentio before they dumped 40% of there starting staff. Minn is competing and they only spend about $8million more. It all comes down to talent scouts. You onced fleeced the redsox in picking up freddy sanchez, who in the past has put up solid #'s. According to most reports the yanks by far and away go the best of the recent trade. If that is the case why even make the move? Nady isn't a free agent at then end of the year. It is just horrible management (unless they actually got some decent players in the deal)

Taking a rather poor revenue team and making them contenders is doable. The krafts did it with the NE pats. When he bought the team, they were the lowest revenue generating team. Now they are at the top and he was able to do it in a couple of years. Find better talent scouts, make smarter decisions with salary dumps, and have the ownership actually put something into the team.
 
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Pittsburg is just a poorly run franchise. Look at who they trade off and get. Nady was on fire this year, and may or may not last a few seasons like this, but they got absolute crap for him, AND traded their closer with him. They were talking about wanting 2 top prospects for either Nady or Bay, and ended up settling for a bunch of medicore prospects for 2 of their top 5 players.
 
I'm not saying they aren't poorly ran.. they are, but at what will MLB step in and say open the books, let's see what you are spending the money on. If they are pocketing the money, force them to spend it or sell the team.. All of you Boston fans don't know the sad state baseball is in because you are in one of those big market teams where you aren't gambling anything on a bad investment.
 
no we don't have to worry about bad signings like a smaller market team...but there are other teams with lower payrolls competing...shit the marlins have fielded competitive teams on several occassions while keeping a low payroll.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']I'm so tired of the high praise Arod gets for his inflated numbers. I'm glad ESPN just flashed his stats with RISP. .238 with RISP with 2 outs and .258 with RISP, he's such a fucking choke artist and I hate him.[/quote]

who cares? he obviously still has the RBI's to show. Every run adds up, and helps you win a ball game.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']no we don't have to worry about bad signings like a smaller market team...but there are other teams with lower payrolls competing...shit the marlins have fielded competitive teams on several occassions while keeping a low payroll.[/quote]

it sometimes work when the planets align... Marlins compete in that division because up to a certain point they had the most talent. You'll see the Rays fall off next year.. just watch.. Big teams can compete year in and year out. Small teams can't unless you are in the AL Central, because every team except Chicago are small market teams..
 
If you spend the average ($90 mil) or the median ($80 mil) on payroll in baseball, you can easily compete. You need to invest money into scouting, and building a good organization, like Minnesota has. Cheap organizations that don't spend the money on players, don't spend on scouting, don't spend on building their organization, won't win. And thats the way I would expect it to be. Under the old ownership, the Red Sox spent competitively on players but cheaped out on scouting and player development, and they never won.

Pittsburgh isn't a bad sports market, but the Pirates are a really shitty organization. If you can't afford an $80 million payroll with MLB subsidizing 1/3rd of that, and you're really trying to win and attract fans, then your city probably shouldn't have a team. But Pittsburgh isn't the problem here, that organization just doesn't care.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you spend the average ($90 mil) or the median ($80 mil) on payroll in baseball, you can easily compete. You need to invest money into scouting, and building a good organization, like Minnesota has. Cheap organizations that don't spend the money on players, don't spend on scouting, don't spend on building their organization, won't win. And thats the way I would expect it to be. Under the old ownership, the Red Sox spent competitively on players but cheaped out on scouting and player development, and they never won.

Pittsburgh isn't a bad sports market, but the Pirates are a really shitty organization. If you can't afford an $80 million payroll with MLB subsidizing 1/3rd of that, and you're really trying to win and attract fans, then your city probably shouldn't have a team. But Pittsburgh isn't the problem here, that organization just doesn't care.[/quote]


no way the Pirates could spend 80 mil...Minnesota has the luxury of not having to spend as much because their division is more conducive. They are in a more competitively level division except for the Royals...I'm complaining as Pirate fan in a division where the majority of the spending is by the Cubs and Cardinals...I feel really bad for Toronto and Baltimore... because they won't see a playoff game for a long time.. much like the Pirates.. All I'm looking for is the MLB to step in and tell them enough is enough with the fire sales. either spend the cash to get competitive or sell the team... if the team can't spend 60-70 mil to get better, then think about breaking the union and get a salary cap in there...
 
You can't compare yourself to teams that spend money.

The AL central has the tigers, who are dropping about 138mill 2nd in mlb, behind only the yanks. The whitesox are dropping 121mill. Clevand is at 78mill, Minn who is in 2nd in the central is dropping only 62mill. There are plenty of teams dropping money in the central, yet the twins are usually in the mix.

In your own division, the brewers are only spending 30mill more then you (about as much as mlb gives to the pirates) and they are competing.

Toronto is spending money, that are at 98mill. They signed big contracts to players that didn't deserve it. It was poor scouting. If the redsox don't resign manny, and let varitek and schilling walk our payroll will be at what toronto is this year. I feel that we can still compete without them. We went 2 months without ortiz, and are still only a game out of first. Pappi by the end of the year will most likely have better #'s then manny per game played. Varitek can't hit for shit, and schilling hasn't pitched 1ip for us this year.

Baltimore ownership has always sucked. They don't like to trade, they don't like to sign big name players they don't do shit and untill a new ownership comes in and doesn't nix every deal at the last minute then they will contine to be mediocre. They have the ability to pay, they chose not to.

How can the pirates not afford 50mill a year salary, when you have a beautiful new stadium, the all star game was there a couple years back and generated revenue, and there are still fans going to the games. They proabaly have a tv deal and get revenue from that as well. It is all going into the owners pockets. It isn't MLB job to make sure the teams are spending there money. The NFL doesn't force the bottom dwellers to spend money either. The only option as a pirates fan you have to do, is stop supporting them, untill the current ownership decides to sell, or get everyone to support them and have the ownership sell when the value of the team is high.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']You can't compare yourself to teams that spend money.

The AL central has the tigers, who are dropping about 138mill 2nd in mlb, behind only the yanks. The whitesox are dropping 121mill. Clevand is at 78mill, Minn who is in 2nd in the central is dropping only 62mill. There are plenty of teams dropping money in the central, yet the twins are usually in the mix.

In your own division, the brewers are only spending 30mill more then you (about as much as mlb gives to the pirates) and they are competing.

Toronto is spending money, that are at 98mill. They signed big contracts to players that didn't deserve it. It was poor scouting. If the redsox don't resign manny, and let varitek and schilling walk our payroll will be at what toronto is this year. I feel that we can still compete without them. We went 2 months without ortiz, and are still only a game out of first. Pappi by the end of the year will most likely have better #'s then manny per game played. Varitek can't hit for shit, and schilling hasn't pitched 1ip for us this year.

Baltimore ownership has always sucked. They don't like to trade, they don't like to sign big name players they don't do shit and untill a new ownership comes in and doesn't nix every deal at the last minute then they will contine to be mediocre. They have the ability to pay, they chose not to.

How can the pirates not afford 50mill a year salary, when you have a beautiful new stadium, the all star game was there a couple years back and generated revenue, and there are still fans going to the games. They proabaly have a tv deal and get revenue from that as well. It is all going into the owners pockets. It isn't MLB job to make sure the teams are spending there money. The NFL doesn't force the bottom dwellers to spend money either. The only option as a pirates fan you have to do, is stop supporting them, untill the current ownership decides to sell, or get everyone to support them and have the ownership sell when the value of the team is high.[/quote]

because
#1 - they'd rather spend the money on Fireworks and bobbleheads
#2 - they'd rather pocket the rest and don't care because people still go to the games.


It is MLB's job, because the team represents the league. The NBA stepped in when Atlanta Hawks tried to do basically the same thing and now the Hawks were in the playoffs...I don't support them I haven't in 7-8 years...
 
I think the Diamondbacks have excellent ownership, yeah they could probably put more into the team but they do a ridiculously good job at scouting and in trades that they make what money they do have go pretty far.

Although it's going to hurt us when all these contracts are up soon, I don't think we are going to be able to hold onto Orlando Hudson since he wants more money and the Diamondbacks can't afford it.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you spend the average ($90 mil) or the median ($80 mil) on payroll in baseball, you can easily compete. You need to invest money into scouting, and building a good organization, like Minnesota has. Cheap organizations that don't spend the money on players, don't spend on scouting, don't spend on building their organization, won't win. And thats the way I would expect it to be. Under the old ownership, the Red Sox spent competitively on players but cheaped out on scouting and player development, and they never won.

Pittsburgh isn't a bad sports market, but the Pirates are a really shitty organization. If you can't afford an $80 million payroll with MLB subsidizing 1/3rd of that, and you're really trying to win and attract fans, then your city probably shouldn't have a team. But Pittsburgh isn't the problem here, that organization just doesn't care.[/quote]

The problem is teams like Minnesota, Oakland won't win World Series. They'll be cute fun teams to watch....ya know the underdog that you'll pull for....but they'll never win one. Excluding the Marlins all past WS champs since 99 have had a payroll of 80+...
 
the 2002 angels had a 61 mill payroll on opening day...and you can't take teams out of the equation because it doesn't help your argument. Since 1997 3 out of the 10 world series teams have had a payroll below 80 mill and it isn't like the cardinals were grossly over the 80 mill mark
 
Here's the salary list. Total salary - Average salary per player:

Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
Tigers $138,685,197 $4,622,840
Mets $138,293,378 $4,609,779
Red Sox $133,440,037 $4,765,716
White Sox $121,152,667 $4,487,136
Angels $119,216,333 $4,110,908
Cubs $118,595,833 $4,392,438
Dodgers $118,536,038 $4,233,430
Mariners $117,993,982 $4,538,230
Braves $102,424,018 $3,414,134
Cardinals $100,624,450 $3,049,226
Blue Jays $98,641,957 $3,522,927
Phillies $98,269,881 $3,388,617
Astros $88,930,415 $3,293,719
Brewers $81,004,167 $2,793,247
Indians $78,970,067 $3,037,310
Giants $76,904,500 $2,651,879
Reds $74,277,695 $2,971,108
Padres $73,677,617 $2,376,697
Rockies $68,655,500 $2,640,596
Rangers $68,239,551 $2,353,088
Orioles $67,196,248 $2,099,883
Diamondbacks $66,202,713 $2,364,383
Twins $62,182,767 $2,487,311
Royals $58,245,500 $2,240,212
Nationals $54,961,000 $1,895,207
Pirates $49,365,283 $1,898,665
Athletics $47,967,126 $1,713,112
Rays $43,820,598 $1,460,687
Marlins $21,836,500 $661,712
 
[quote name='ryanbph']the 2002 angels had a 61 mill payroll on opening day...and you can't take teams out of the equation because it doesn't help your argument. Since 1997 3 out of the 10 world series teams have had a payroll below 80 mill and it isn't like the cardinals were grossly over the 80 mill mark[/quote]


when the angels won the WS was their payroll the same.. I can't remember if they traded during the year or not...
 
[quote name='lordwow']Here's the salary list. Total salary - Average salary per player:

Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
Tigers $138,685,197 $4,622,840
Mets $138,293,378 $4,609,779
Red Sox $133,440,037 $4,765,716
White Sox $121,152,667 $4,487,136
Angels $119,216,333 $4,110,908
Cubs $118,595,833 $4,392,438
Dodgers $118,536,038 $4,233,430
Mariners $117,993,982 $4,538,230
Braves $102,424,018 $3,414,134
Cardinals $100,624,450 $3,049,226
Blue Jays $98,641,957 $3,522,927
Phillies $98,269,881 $3,388,617
Astros $88,930,415 $3,293,719
Brewers $81,004,167 $2,793,247
Indians $78,970,067 $3,037,310
Giants $76,904,500 $2,651,879
Reds $74,277,695 $2,971,108
Padres $73,677,617 $2,376,697
Rockies $68,655,500 $2,640,596
Rangers $68,239,551 $2,353,088
Orioles $67,196,248 $2,099,883
Diamondbacks $66,202,713 $2,364,383
Twins $62,182,767 $2,487,311
Royals $58,245,500 $2,240,212
Nationals $54,961,000 $1,895,207
Pirates $49,365,283 $1,898,665
Athletics $47,967,126 $1,713,112
Rays $43,820,598 $1,460,687
Marlins $21,836,500 $661,712[/quote]


see.. you spend more, your chances of being a contender are better...the Rays will either be spending more next year or not as good as this year...they've captured lightning in a bottle..
 
I don't remember the angels adding much that year but I couLd be wrong.

The only teams that are truley out of it are the majority of the teams in the 60 - 70 mill range
 
And it's not really even bad in there. The Rockies have nearly the same team that got them to the WS last year, and the Diamondbacks and Twins are contenders.

There are really contenders up and down that list.
 
[quote name='lordwow']And it's not really even bad in there. The Rockies have nearly the same team that got them to the WS last year, and the Diamondbacks and Twins are contenders.

There are really contenders up and down that list.[/quote]


exactly.. lightning in a bottle.. they had their chance, much like Detroit.. the only small to mid market consistent playoff teams are the A's and the Twins.. everyone has a one year shot and then it's back to the basement..
 
And the Texiera sweepstakes are over. He's now on the best team in baseball, the Angels will be insane with his bat in front of Vlad (atleast I think he should hit 3rd, but maybe he will bat behind him)
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']And the Texiera sweepstakes are over. He's now on the best team in baseball, the Angels will be insane with his bat in front of Vlad (atleast I think he should hit 3rd, but maybe he will bat behind him)[/QUOTE]

he is out of the East(thank god) but why the Angels..........

ESPN is reporting that Boras is pushing 10 years 260 million dollars for him. as good as i think he is...he isnt 260 million dollar good. The angels now solidify their stance as the favorites to win it all.....I stil cant believe it.
 
I'm much happier now that the Cubs have taken the first two. Brew Crew's two best arms couldn't get the job done.

Now Cubbies, don't lose the next two games and piss away this little cushion you've earned.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']the 2002 angels had a 61 mill payroll on opening day...and you can't take teams out of the equation because it doesn't help your argument. Since 1997 3 out of the 10 world series teams have had a payroll below 80 mill and it isn't like the cardinals were grossly over the 80 mill mark[/quote]

I remember the Angels had a low one...they pulled a Marlins...

It does help my argument even more....3 Teams.....? I mean honestly...who do you think within the next couple years (08'-'12) will win a WS? The Twins/A's or Cubs/Red Sox/Yanks?
 
how does it help your argument, when 30% of the ws winners in a 10 year span had low salaries and the cardinals were only a couple million over your 80mill mark that you set. If you included them it would be 40% in 10 years.

there is a decent possiblity that the rays could win soon, and maybe not this year but the marlins should be solid for a couple of seasons.

If the franchise, and other pitchers that you claim are so great with the giants continue to develop then there is no reason that the giants won't be a very competitive team in the next couple of years. Pitching wins in the post season, and if the giants continue with the slow change to a youth movement the giants will have a shot in the next couple of years. Assuming the young position players pan out to be at least avg everyday players.

I have no idea about the a's or twins. Both teams have done some roster dumps and I don't know how good the prospects that they got in return are/will turn out to be.

Lets not forgot that both the giants and pirates were very competitve teams in the past 20 years. Will clark, kevin mitchell, and matt williams were a solid 3, 4, 5. Only 1 team wins the world series every year. The redsox and cubs both have had long history without winning. Currently the redsox have a solid team for the past couple of seasons. They have the 4th highest payroll. After this year the money coming off the books will be about 38mill. (manny, schilling,varitek). That will put them at high 90's. They still will field a competive team as there minor league system is stocked with talent.

Yes it has been awhile since the pirates/giants have been competitive. Is it because they don't spend, or because they have poor management? The Giants dropped a shitload of money on zitto. I was on these boards arguing at the time that he was a mediocre pitcher. Who's fault is it that the giants are currently a mediocre team? The rules of MLB because they don't force teams to spend money? Or is it the management that signed there only big superstar contract to a mediocre pitcher?
 
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[quote name='ryanbph']how does it help your argument, when 30% of the ws winners in a 10 year span had low salaries and the cardinals were only a couple million over your 80mill mark that you set. If you included them it would be 40% in 10 years.

there is a decent possiblity that the rays could win soon, and maybe not this year but the marlins should be solid for a couple of seasons.

If the franchise, and other pitchers that you claim are so great with the giants continue to develop then there is no reason that the giants won't be a very competitive team in the next couple of years. Pitching wins in the post season, and if the giants continue with the slow change to a youth movement the giants will have a shot in the next couple of years. Assuming the young position players pan out to be at least avg everyday players.

I have no idea about the a's or twins. Both teams have done some roster dumps and I don't know how good the prospects that they got in return are/will turn out to be.

Lets not forgot that both the giants and pirates were very competitve teams in the past 20 years. Will clark, kevin mitchell, and matt williams were a solid 3, 4, 5. Only 1 team wins the world series every year. The redsox and cubs both have had long history without winning. Currently the redsox have a solid team for the past couple of seasons. They have the 4th highest payroll. After this year the money coming off the books will be about 38mill. (manny, schilling,varitek). That will put them at high 90's. They still will field a competive team as there minor league system is stocked with talent.

Yes it has been awhile since the pirates/giants have been competitive. Is it because they don't spend, or because they have poor management? The Giants dropped a shitload of money on zitto. I was on these boards arguing at the time that he was a mediocre pitcher. Who's fault is it that the giants are currently a mediocre team? The rules of MLB because they don't force teams to spend money? Or is it the management that signed there only big superstar contract to a mediocre pitcher?[/quote]

I didn't even mention the Giants....but anywhoo i'm not claiming the Giants have great young pitchers...they do have one aka Teh Franchise/Lincecum....if you don't think the guys one of the top 5 pitchers in the game...you're crazy.

I totally agree that management is key.....Billy Beane is the best GM and it's not even close......but since the ownership doesn't want to spend money....Duscherer will be gone after the year....it's basically a rinse...wash...dry repeat.

In the late 90's/Early 00's they had Chavez, Tejada, Zito, Mulder, Hudson, Giambi....very good team....all of them in the PRIME of there careers...Zito/Mulder/Hudson was one of the best 1-3 i've ever seen...rivals Smoltz/Maddux/Glavine....they had a 3-5 of Giambi/Tejada/Chavez....had they had the money (or ownership who wants to spend money) and been able to re-sign Giambi/Tejada they wouldn't have won a WS? Granted they made some great trades with Mulder/Hudson....but that's what they HAVE to do...

Do you think the Yanks/Sox/Cubs/Dodgers/Mariners (top spending teams right now) would ever let these guys walk away? Hell no.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Yankees landed Pudge Rodriguez from the Tigers for Kyle Farnsworth.[/QUOTE]

And the Marlins are in talks with the BoSox for Manny. How crazy is this?
 
[quote name='EXStrike']How the fuck do the Tigers give up Pudge for just Kyle Farnsworth?[/QUOTE]
I was going to ask why the Yankees would give up Farnsworth for just Pudge.

Pudge was never a great defensive catcher, and he hasn't been the same guy offensively for a while. Detroit unloads the remainder of his $13 million salary this year, and they get back a great piece for their bullpen. The Yankees on the other hand give up their primary setup man for a platoon catcher, Jose Molina will get his starts.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I was going to ask why the Yankees would give up Farnsworth for just Pudge.

Pudge was never a great defensive catcher, and he hasn't been the same guy offensively for a while. Detroit unloads the remainder of his $13 million salary this year, and they get back a great piece for their bullpen. The Yankees on the other hand give up their primary setup man for a platoon catcher, Jose Molina will get his starts.[/QUOTE]

You my friend are so off base you have no idea what you are talking about. Pudge is an all time great catcher, 13 gold gloves, MVP. Sure he might be a shell of himself as a hitter but he's one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. He won a gold glove last year throwing out nearly 48% of base stealers and managing the pitching staff beautifully.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I was going to ask why the Yankees would give up Farnsworth for just Pudge.

Pudge was never a great defensive catcher, and he hasn't been the same guy offensively for a while. Detroit unloads the remainder of his $13 million salary this year, and they get back a great piece for their bullpen. The Yankees on the other hand give up their primary setup man for a platoon catcher, Jose Molina will get his starts.[/quote]

Are you retarded? You have obviously never seen Pudge play if you think he was never a great defensive catcher.

As a yankee fan, im indifferent to the trade, Farnsworth was doing well, so was Molina. Guess we will see how it goes.
 
[quote name='omgu8myrice']Are you retarded? You have obviously never seen Pudge play if you think he was never a great defensive catcher.

As a yankee fan, im indifferent to the trade, Farnsworth was doing well, so was Molina. Guess we will see how it goes.[/QUOTE]
Arm /= defense. He was never a good game caller at all, and never real good at receiving the ball. Jose Molina is the superior defensive catcher at this point in their careers, and Molina even has a better arm.
 
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[quote name='dafoomie']Arm /= defense. He was never a good game caller at all, and never real good at receiving the ball. Jose Molina is the superior defensive catcher at this point in their careers, and Molina even has a better arm.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, do you have any stats to back that up your opinion because simply shooting off the hip doesn't make something true. You would have a hard time finding a better catcher in baseball than Pudge, over the past 15 years. He's won everywhere he's been. Here are his fielding stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2523&context=fielding
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Everytime I think of "The Farnz" I think of that fight when he speared the Reds catcher.[/quote]

Farnsworth absolutely whooped him.

Never really understood Farnsworth's lack of success. Then again, I only see him when he mows down the Red Sox.

I watch him throw 97-99 MPH Gas on the corners and 87-89 MPH Sharp Sliders for called strikes to freeze hitters. He is an enigma.
 
I know when Farnsworth was with the Cubs he would struggle at times getting his off speed pitches over for a strike. Hitters would then just sit on fastball and tee off.

EDIT: Sounds like trade talks might be heating up between the Marlin and Red Sox for Manny. The big question is do the Marlins deserve a player like him? If not what teams do? :lol:
 
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