The myth of "Islamophobia" in America

Joeboo, I respectfully disagree. CAIR has done a ton of harm for the image of Islam and Muslims in this country, because they are looked at as having a political agenda, and trying to strongarm people into loving Islam. This is completely and totally the wrong way to do it. Most people's experience with Muslims is what they see on TV, or they see in headlines. They create stereotypes based on that, and are unlikely to be persuaded by words to change their mentality. But those same people, when they actually become familiar on a personal level, with Muslims, this is what is going to have a stronger influence on their views. Again, those who are going to hate Muslims because their network or blog of choice told them so, they aren't the ones who will seek out education about the religion from credible sources. They will promote and embrace the Islamaphobia. But if those same people come into contact with several Muslims, and they see that they are decent human beings, raising families, working, studying, and they aren't bloodthirsty misogynists, then that turns bigots world upside down and they have to re-think those sterotypes.

I hold myself personally responsible if people that know me, and know I'm a Muslim, still hold to Islamaphobic beliefs and bigotry. IMO, if more people felt that way and tried to fix the problem through actions, then you've taken most of the fuel from the bigots fire.
 
[quote name='depascal22']As for your second point, Islam is fighting back. We've used them for oil and target practice for decades. We've played games and installed dictators that have brutally repressed the common people. Now, they want revenge not on Christianity but on the west. We're responsible for the current state of affairs. They turned to religion because their governments were riddled with corruption and horrible cruelty. Now, they've replaced pro-Western governments (like the Shah in Iran) with theocracies that have one goal. To fight the West. We could all be Scientologists. Doesn't matter. 9/11 still happens.[/QUOTE]

It seems to me that Muslim theocracies and Islamic radicals just want to destroy anything that's not Islamic. Let's not pretend that they have a live and let live ethos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D-z6sTs3pU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRu1Pjnuujs&feature=player_embedded
 
[quote name='camoor']It seems to me that Muslim theocracies and Islamic radicals just want to destroy anything that's not Islamic. Let's not pretend that they have a live and let live ethos.


[/QUOTE]

I think they'd rather be left alone. Why weren't there more attacks committed regionally and globally prior to 1967? There were still radicals, they were just focused on making their societies more conservative, or following a particular part of the religion over others. Then they were bankrolled and supported by the US when oil was discovered and we wanted to make political separation for economic benefit. Many parts of that region have been under various colonial rule, not to mention, stationed military bases and other exploitation over time. Countries with recent history of colonial rule tend to be unstable now. Whether they are mostly Christian, Muslim, polytheists, or atheist. None of this justifies terrorism, but to say that the faith doesn't allow a live and let live philosophy is historically inaccurate.

There is an entire chapter in the Quran dedicated to basically saying "I have my religion, you have yours, and we don't worship the same thing, so let it go, quit arguing."

But to address statues...they didn't like the statues...and it was in a country run by people that chose to get rid of them. The fact that the Taliban destroyed Buddhist statues is the least to be worried about them. That was one of the most exaggerated "attacks" that came out of Afghanistan. Who cares? They were old statues. If someone nuked the pyramids, it would be a shame, but I wouldn't stop a second in my day to think about it.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I think they'd rather be left alone. Why weren't there more attacks committed regionally and globally prior to 1967? There were still radicals, they were just focused on making their societies more conservative, or following a particular part of the religion over others. Then they were bankrolled and supported by the US when oil was discovered and we wanted to make political separation for economic benefit. Many parts of that region have been under various colonial rule, not to mention, stationed military bases and other exploitation over time. Countries with recent history of colonial rule tend to be unstable now. Whether they are mostly Christian, Muslim, polytheists, or atheist. None of this justifies terrorism, but to say that the faith doesn't allow a live and let live philosophy is historically inaccurate.

There is an entire chapter in the Quran dedicated to basically saying "I have my religion, you have yours, and we don't worship the same thing, so let it go, quit arguing."

But to address statues...they didn't like the statues...and it was in a country run by people that chose to get rid of them. The fact that the Taliban destroyed Buddhist statues is the least to be worried about them. That was one of the most exaggerated "attacks" that came out of Afghanistan. Who cares? They were old statues. If someone nuked the pyramids, it would be a shame, but I wouldn't stop a second in my day to think about it.[/QUOTE]

Blowing up religiously and culturally significant statues is not the best way to prove that you are living in a society that embraces the "live and let live" philosophy or ""I have my religion, you have yours" and all that other junk in your post. Neither is ignoring it because it doesn't personally affect you.

And try the decaf dude :lol:
 
[quote name='camoor']

And try the decaf dude :lol:[/QUOTE]

What? Haa haa. I'm actually drinking a large coffee today (But I hate to disappoint, coffee doesn't really keep me awake, or have any of the side-effects it does for some people-since I don't drink booze, you and I should have a large black coffee someday and shoot the breeze)

Anyhoo, it's a statue. Big deal. Were buddhists internationally up in arms setting themselves on fire over this? No. Fox News, and a couple other outfits did big stories on it as the feature for what's wrong with the Taliban. If this was international news worthy, it must have been a slow day. The Taliban was a heinous group of oppressors, bad, bad dudes. Their dislike for rock carvings should never make the news over other things they did. Idol worship is forbidden in Afghanistan, if they viewed those statues as idol worship, why can't they blow em up? They didn't invade China and destroy every Buddhist temple they could find there. That's why your statement doesn't work. Afghanistan has been a country invaded by foreigners for years.

Edit: It's still adorable how long you hold a grudge too. Ever since you and I went at it in the fat people thread, you've really had a hardon for me. I think I'm honored, but I believe you may be taking a few comments on a videogame website too seriously. I unlocked like, 6 achievements in GOW2 MP last night. I was happy.
 
[quote name='berzirk']What? Haa haa. I'm actually drinking a large coffee today (But I hate to disappoint, coffee doesn't really keep me awake, or have any of the side-effects it does for some people-since I don't drink booze, you and I should have a large black coffee someday and shoot the breeze)

Anyhoo, it's a statue. Big deal. Were buddhists internationally up in arms setting themselves on fire over this? No. Fox News, and a couple other outfits did big stories on it as the feature for what's wrong with the Taliban. If this was international news worthy, it must have been a slow day. The Taliban was a heinous group of oppressors, bad, bad dudes. Their dislike for rock carvings should never make the news over other things they did. Idol worship is forbidden in Afghanistan, if they viewed those statues as idol worship, why can't they blow em up? They didn't invade China and destroy every Buddhist temple they could find there. That's why your statement doesn't work. Afghanistan has been a country invaded by foreigners for years.

Edit: It's still adorable how long you hold a grudge too. Ever since you and I went at it in the fat people thread, you've really had a hardon for me. I think I'm honored, but I believe you may be taking a few comments on a videogame website too seriously. I unlocked like, 6 achievements in GOW2 MP last night. I was happy.[/QUOTE]

Several reasons your post is illogical, the most obvious being that the second vid was the Malaysian government so we're not just talking a bunch of fringe Taliban members in the middle of the desert.
 
So... I'm not going to say there is or isn't other issues at play here, but when I first read the headlinr about 'Kid get expelled for building clock', I immediately thought "yup, overreaction, but someone freaked out and assumed bomb" - nothing to do with race/religion on my end, but the overreacting state of our schools today.
 
UncleBob said:
So... I'm not going to say there is or isn't other issues at play here, but when I first read the headlinr about 'Kid get expelled for building clock', I immediately thought "yup, overreaction, but someone freaked out and assumed bomb" - nothing to do with race/religion on my end, but the overreacting state of our schools today.
Click to expand...
Maybe. We can only guess. It seems to me a little unlikely in the State of Texas that a white kid showing up to school with a homemade clock in a briefcase would be arrested, questioned by cops without his parents available, and spur the school to send a letter home to parents praising themselves for keeping kids safe (while they put the possible bomb in a teacher's desk and call the cops, rather than do the natural thing...run far, far away from a bomb. But we really don't know. Unfortunately enough lame stuff like this has happened with biases or racism as an underlying factor, that there is history that allows us to assume biases, rather than assume not.

 
For what it's worth, scaling off the clock's plug in the photos, the whole thing is maybe 6"x4"x1" closed.  I've seen it described as a "pencil case" which may or may not be the case but, in any event, this thing was the size of a large note card.

I bring it up because I've seen people in several places I visit across the web describe it as a "suitcase" or "briefcase".  This wasn't a Samsonite case with a giant timer on it and potentially filled with C4, it was charitably the length and width of a large cell phone (albeit it thicker).

 
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