The "Night of Champions" Wrestling Thread

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HeroToTheMasses said:
Why Del Rio doesn't like Sin Cara:

Sin Cara (or a member of his posse) pulled a gun on Del Rio in Mexico before either made it to the WWE.
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Ah, so he botched that as well. Sad when you are in the wrestling business and you can't even shoot properly.

They should turn this into an angle where Del RIo explains why he hates Sin Cara, where Sin Cara continues to maintain his innocence. They reveal in the end it was Sin Cara Negro that actually pulled the gun, framing him. This way Vince gets to be "edgy" (and a tad racist).

Side Note: Why don't they let Hunico be Sin Cara again? He is a much better wrestler and hasn't done a damn thing in forever.

 
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HeroToTheMasses said:
Devon is gone from TNA! Looks like AJ is hung up over cash. Wants more than he currently makes for the time he has served the company!
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They also released SoCal Val. But at least with her, they're showing that they're willing to cut dead weight to save money.

Speaking of releases, all these releases kinda remind of late 2000/early 2001 WCW. Where the company was trying to find ways to get the old, overpaid guys out while hiring younger talent for cheaper contracts. Because TNA is doing the same thing right now, since they're doing a talent search for younger wrestlers.

Even Sting mentioned a couple months ago that he felt like TNA is showing him the door. Since he's felt that since that Hall of Fame induction last year, they haven't really done anything with him and haven't brought up keeping him next year. So with these cuts, this might finally be the time that there's a chance to show up in WWE.

 
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HeroToTheMasses said:
Sonne's Match of the Year​
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Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn
2 out of 3 Falls!​
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ2UiADbh10&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]​
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God damn it, such a good match. I get goosebumps watching it and knowing I was there. It's never going to get old. I mean each of those big spots would be the highlight of a damn RAW, let alone NXT. A shame that no one is really going to see it, and Cesaro has to toil away in the mid-card.

On another note, why the hell does Darren Young keep bleeding at the mouth in his matches. Seriously, anyone else notice this? I'm not trying to set up a joke or anything.

One more note, new Botchamania is live.

 
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HydroX said:
Mitch Russo? Because Crowbar, David Flair and Daffney worked so well.
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I actually liked that trio. It was the only time I found Flair entertaining. That was one hell of a match Sonne.

 
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Did you know that CM Punk has only had 19 televised matches in 2013?

Did you know that Randy Orton has had 70 televised matches in 2013? 

 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwgiUvjsRls&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Better version of earlier video..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNx2mANmxzs[/youtube]

Edit- Main event highlights

[youtube]http://youtu.be/gTwNvZF1VGU[/youtube]

 
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tangytangerine said:
They also released SoCal Val. But at least with her, they're showing that they're willing to cut dead weight to save money.

Speaking of releases, all these releases kinda remind of late 2000/early 2001 WCW. Where the company was trying to find ways to get the old, overpaid guys out while hiring younger talent for cheaper contracts. Because TNA is doing the same thing right now, since they're doing a talent search for younger wrestlers.

Even Sting mentioned a couple months ago that he felt like TNA is showing him the door. Since he's felt that since that Hall of Fame induction last year, they haven't really done anything with him and haven't brought up keeping him next year. So with these cuts, this might finally be the time that there's a chance to show up in WWE.
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I'm almost sad to see TNA circle the drain. They had a lot of potential. Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle had one of the best matches in the 2000-2010 decade.

What this boils down to is a.) they pushed the wrong people (see: Jeff Jarrett, WWE discards, etc.) and b.) set the wrong priorities (see: not pushing newer names/indie talent). They made an effort to be WWE Lite during their prime and only tried to do something different after shit hit the fan.

They should have cut deadweight a while ago. To do so right now is laughable and seemingly too late. Just from the clips I watch to keep up with their product, they look to be in terrible shape. Roster looks thin and a lot of things seem to be going nowhere. For example, the Knockouts division, which they built up so well now looks paperthin and dwindling into an abyss. They're pushing TJP under the Manik mask because of licensing or something? Otherwise, one would think it would be better to actually have someone with a face as the current face of the X-division. That's basically TNA in a nutshell: Solving problems with problems.

WCW went out strong. They established a Jr. Heavyweight/Cruiserweight tag division not seen in the North American mainstream scene since. (This was my first exposure to AJ Styles and his Botchamania ring style.) Shit, that tag division was stronger than most of WWE's attempts from 2000 to present. WCW's concluding roster looks infinitely stronger than what TNA is trying to work with today. And that's a dang shame considering how Bully Ray is still one of the best heels in pro wrestling today.

I really wanted to see TNA succeed. Not just because the North American mainstream wrasslin scene thrives when there's competition, but because people like The Young Bucks, Kevin Steen, Colt Cabana, and Adam Cole, just to name a few, deserve a bigger stage to display their craft. WCW provided that for people like Lance Storm, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Jr., and I could go on and on. Even established names like The Outsiders, Shane Douglas, and Ray Traylor found new life in WCW and got a chance to show their talent in front of a bigger audience. More than us fans, the talent themselves deserve another mainstream outlet to showcase the work they invest their lives into honing. It is 100-percent, Grade-A bullshit that a sports entertainment company is the only big outlet left in North America.

Or, in short: Damn it, TNA.

 
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Muta, I think the biggest issue I find with your entire argument is how you throw the WWE under the bus.

The product has really come around in a good way lately, and if you're watching indie wrestling / TNA for the sake of not watching WWE, then you're not watching either for the right reasons. The WWE is a majorly different company than it was even two years ago, and the influx of talent being pushed right now: Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, The Shield, Bray Wyatt, Antonio Cesaro is among the best ANYWHERE in the industry. 

It's bizarre that you're knocking the WWE as "100-percent, Grade-A bullshit that a sports entertainment company is the only big outlet left in North America." when it's proven itself to be the only company in North American that can make guys like Christian and Rob Van Dam feel important again, when Bryan Danielson is the face of the company, and the majority of the card is made of wrestlers that came up on the indie circuit, versus the sports-entertainment aspect you hate. 

Just be a fan. You don't need that chip on your shoulder. If TNA is inept, then be at peace with TNA being inept and move on. You can't control that. I was like that with ROH. When Gabe Sapolsky got fired, I supported the company through the creative changes because I genuinely loved the ROH product. But once they botched Nigel's reign as badly as they did, hotshotted the title to Jerry Lynn, and then to Austin Aries, and then to Tyler Black a full year over when he should have got the belt, I realized the company had changed for the worse and it was time to move on.

But then companies can get better as well. WWE has. If you can't bring yourself to support the company, that's fine. Just be open to the possibility of it. Just think about this way, you've got THREE former PWG champions getting TV time in the WWE (Bryan, Cesaro, and Zayn). 

Sidenote: TNA will not get better as long as Dixie is in the charge. 

 
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I have to call revisionist history on most of what you said about WCW. The dying days of WCW seemed better because 2000 was so horrible, but 2001 featured little to nothing in terms of top notch material. There's too many examples of why a lot of it was poor booking and poor wrestling. It was nice to see a dramatic change of pace for WCW but it wasn't quality by any means. They had to insert Rey and Kidman because the lightweight division was abominable when Chavo and Helms weren't in the ring alone with each other.

TNA's biggest problem has always been that it has some sort of axe to grind or something to prove. The only thing they've proven consistently is that they do what the WWE does, but worse.

 
HeroToTheMasses said:
Muta, I think the biggest issue I find with your entire argument is how you throw the WWE under the bus.
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Deservedly so for what they have done to the North American mainstream scene. See: Kill it. However, you're right about today's WWE. I have said this before, and I'll mention it again: WWE has been doing things right for the last two years. I like to think a wrestler's wrestler like Triple H will help guide this entertainment company so that pro wrestling survives—albeit in a sports entertainment form. Honestly, I think the North American mainstream scene is so unfixable that pro wrestling survives only by WWE being an all-purpose entertainment company.

davo1224 said:
I have to call revisionist history on most of what you said about WCW. The dying days of WCW seemed better because 2000 was so horrible, but 2001 featured little to nothing in terms of top notch material. There's too many examples of why a lot of it was poor booking and poor wrestling. It was nice to see a dramatic change of pace for WCW but it wasn't quality by any means. They had to insert Rey and Kidman because the lightweight division was abominable when Chavo and Helms weren't in the ring alone with each other.

TNA's biggest problem has always been that it has some sort of axe to grind or something to prove. The only thing they've proven consistently is that they do what the WWE does, but worse.
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I will take "Dying days" WCW to the 2000-2010 decade of WWE simply because I hate the sports entertainment ring style. The only redeeming quality about recent WWE is that they have been forced to utilize solid indy talent. Something they didn't do for a long damn time. Hint: Because they have cannibalized North America and stagnated pro wrestling in the entire country.

Territories were beneficial for the industry. Territories let talent bake for a lot longer and then feed the bigger leagues. From what I've heard from people like Alvarez, Meltzer, Cabana, and Cornette, there was a level of respect between territories and bigger promotions like WWWF/WWF/WWE. WWE cannibalizing North America and monopolizing pro wrestling in the country undoubtedly hurt pro wrestling not just across the United States but around the world. Until recent years, they were resting on their laurels. I think that's fairly obvious.

 
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The Great Muta said:
Deservedly so for what they have done to the North American mainstream scene. See: Kill it. However, you're right about today's WWE. I have said this before, and I'll mention it again: WWE has been doing things right for the last two years. I like to think a wrestler's wrestler like Triple H will help guide this entertainment company so that pro wrestling survives—albeit in a sports entertainment form. Honestly, I think the North American mainstream scene is so unfixable that pro wrestling survives only by WWE being an all-purpose entertainment company.

I will take "Dying days" WCW to the 2000-2010 decade of WWE simply because I hate the sports entertainment ring style. The only redeeming quality about recent WWE is that they have been forced to utilize solid indy talent. Something they didn't do for a long damn time. Hint: Because they have cannibalized North America and stagnated pro wrestling in the entire country.

Territories were beneficial for the industry. Territories let talent bake for a lot longer and then feed the bigger leagues. From what I've heard from people like Alvarez, Meltzer, Cabana, and Cornette, there was a level of respect between territories and bigger promotions like WWWF/WWF/WWE. WWE cannibalizing North America and monopolizing pro wrestling in the country undoubtedly hurt pro wrestling not just across the United States but around the world. Until recent years, they were resting on their laurels. I think that's fairly obvious.
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Don't carry grudges man. That's all I got to say.

Pro Wrestling as a sport doesn't exist. It hasn't for 75 years. You're romanticizing professional wrestling as what the industry ought to be and blaming the WWE for what constituted professional wrestling from 2000-2010. The thing is that the WWE never killed WCW. The WWE never killed ECW. Bad leadership did took down both those companies. The WWE just did its own thing. It has since the Monday Night Wars.

You can resent that the WWE survived where those other companies didn't, but to blame the WWE for any kind of decline in your interpretation of professional wrestling makes no sense. Vince has ALWAYS done what's best for his company to survive. Further, the majority of the wrestlers you mentioned before, including Steen, Cabana, and Davey Richards, have all dismissed Cornette as being utterly insane.

For the dying days WCW, have you even seen the last 6 championship changes in WCW before the company went under? It was ALL sports entertainment!

05. Kevin Nash vs. Booker T in a "Caged Heat" Match.

04. Booker T vs. Vince Russo in a steel cage match.

03. Russo forfeits belt - Booker T vs. Jeff Jarrett in a "San Francisco 49ers Match"

02. Booker T vs. Scott Steiner in a "Straight Jacket steel cage match"

01. Scott Steiner vs. Booker T

WWE respective PPV main events for those months.

04. Rock vs. Benoit vs. Taker vs. Kane

03. Kurt Angle vs. The Rock

02. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker

01. The Rock vs. Steve Austin at Wrestlemania

There was more sports entertainment in one WCW title match that on most entire WWE shows!

 
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Finished watching the For All Mankind - The Life and Career of Mick Foley documentary on Netflix.  A great companion to his books. As always, very hard to summarize a man's career in two hours but it was well done with match footage and people's thoughts and opinions including The Rock, Triple H, Randy Orton, Shane Douglas, JR, and Terry Funk.  I will be adding the Blu Ray to my collection when the price is right. 

 
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I will take "Dying days" WCW to the 2000-2010 decade of WWE simply because I hate the sports entertainment ring style.
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Sports entertainment became a "thing" in the 80's if anything and then really turned up the volume in the Attitude era. The WWE style of matches started around the time that Bret left and Shawn retired. You had Austin who couldn't wrestle anymore because of the neck injury, the Rock who never learned how to, and Undertaker who didn't need to. 2000 is when Benoit, Jericho, Angle, Eddy, etc. all came into the fold and WWE started putting on awesome cards by sheer virtue of overwhelming talent. It wasn't until 2003 that things became noticeably worse and 2006 when despite the awful storylines, the good matches went away too.

WCW was my favorite company because of the diverse undercard but almost all of their main events hurt my brain or put me to sleep. Concepts such as face wins feud, end the match before you go off the air, and clean finish eluded them for years.

As for what will fix WWE? They'll have to get to another place like back in 2000 where despite their best efforts to stink up the show or push trash, the good matches, angles, and wrestlers prevailed. WWE needs to focus on its strengths (large fanbase, exposure, name value, good talent) while still throwing the occasional bone to its usual fanbase who needs catchphrases, xenophobia, and comedy angles. They seem to be heading in that direction now.

 
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Yeah I think someone is remembering WCW for more than it was. I loved the matches they gave some of the rising stars, like Jerico, Raven, Guerrero, La Parka, Smiley but there were plenty of mid card talent that just sucked as well. And the main events, aside from the initial hot nWo early days, sucked. (even those early nWo matches were not technical marvels or even good matches, it was all shock factor and good booking, in other words, "sports entertainment.)

I love the good aspects of WCW, but I will never forget them taking 75% of the show dismantling the set and making it a nWo set, literally, the majority of the show was them changing the set while they talked about the nWo.

Undercards putting in good/great matches, and the announces completely ignoring or ever even ackowledging the match, talking about the nWo the whole time.

The No Limits Soldiers winning every match against Curt Henning's stable (not being sarcastic "every match", I mean, they damn near won every match)

Having some of the best hardcore wrestlers in the world on your payroll, but you let old veterans like the Nasty Boys get all the screentime, doing thier same 30 year old schitk where they hit you with a plastic trash can filled with white paper. Whatev.

WCW was almost nonstop horrible decisions in the last few years, with a small amount of matches that made it on TV that were entertaining.

 
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I think they do see the potential. Cesaro gets crazy TV time every week.

The thing with the WWE is that they refuse pushing a guy for the first few years he is with the company. Daniel Bryan joined in 2010 and it's only in 2013 that he's gotten a main event push. Expect similar things for Cesaro and Zayn. 

 
In random backstage segments, they could have Cesaro off in the background doing some sort of ludicrous strength workout like curls with scaffolding, bench pressing a Diva, or one arm pushups on top of on the production truck without either him or the on-air personalities acknowledging him as he works out.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PwL_fEC_WkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq7e_A88bZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPjJ_AzZh3c

 
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Antonio Cesario Appreciation Post!​
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGtdTlPXKI​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orFZ9jkNHSU​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axmkvsDFxyI​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wysjmaeCLaQ​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PnqYQXwLSw​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heePaLlHmms​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDRYCODBAVE​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQdClulePQ​
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CFwCFwYk1c​
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heePaLlHmms

Cole - "Swinging Miz around like a baseball bat!"

If that's how Cole swings a bat then he definitely sucked at baseball.

 
I don't like spoilering videos because it stifles discussion. There isn't a single other wrestling community in the world that suggests video or image content, no matter how much of it is posted, be spoilered, as long as it isn't a spoiler. It makes no sense we're hiding the very thing we're here to talk about. The entire idea is ass backwards.

The extra two scrolls on the mouse wheel isn't worth the prospect making it harder for new fans to get involved. Sorry.

On Raw Tonight: ​

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[SIZE=1.2em]* If Punk takes care of business against Axel, is Heyman next to feel his wrath?[/SIZE]

* Will Big Show & Mark Henry be the force to finally crush The Shield?

* Will Alberto Del Rio be looking for retribution against Rob Van Dam & Ricardo Rodriguez?

* What did The Wyatt Family do with Kane?

* What might powers that be do next to keep Daniel Bryan down?

 
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Spoiler tags are recommended so that they don't take up so much room on the page and for those with slower internet connections who don't want to wait for everything to load.  Remember when we gif'd out a thread and a mod came in and deleted everything because it was causing bandwidth issues or space issues on the servers or something to that extent?

 
mitch079 said:
Spoiler tags are recommended so that they don't take up so much room on the page and for those with slower internet connections who don't want to wait for everything to load. Remember when we gif'd out a thread and a mod came in and deleted everything because it was causing bandwidth issues or space issues on the servers or something to that extent?
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I remember that. That was a good few hours that went WAY overboard.

 
mitch079 said:
Spoiler tags are recommended so that they don't take up so much room on the page and for those with slower internet connections who don't want to wait for everything to load. Remember when we gif'd out a thread and a mod came in and deleted everything because it was causing bandwidth issues or space issues on the servers or something to that extent?
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Precisely. There's no need to get up in arms about proselytizing about wrestling when you're already in a wrestling thread. 12 videos in 2 posts is far too many and certainly not worth the risk of breaking the thread. Spoiler tags are useful in this regard so be a little more considerate of others for the reasons listed above.

 
I'll respond to this once.

It's 2013. How slow could your internet connection possibly be? Who here is using 56k? I just checked the thread using my iPhone, on 3G, and everything loaded up, including the video links in around 25 seconds. Also for that matter, when's the last time the thread broke?

You've typed more words discussing how many videos were posted than what's in the videos themselves. Please let me post in peace.

 
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HeroToTheMasses said:
I'll respond to this once.

It's 2013. How slow could your internet connection possibly be? Who here is using 56k? I just checked the thread using my iPhone, on 3G, and everything loaded up, including the video links in around 25 seconds. Also for that matter, when's the last time the thread broke?
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When the thread was loaded with gifs, just like mitch079 posted. Video links slow down pages, that's a fact.

HeroToTheMasses said:
You've typed more words discussing how many videos were posted than what's in the videos themselves. Please let me post in peace.
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Well, that's just patently false and deters from any valid point you may or may not have.

Be considerate of others so they can read the thread in peace.

 
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HeroToTheMasses said:
I'll respond to this once.

It's 2013. How slow could your internet connection possibly be? Who here is using 56k? I just checked the thread using my iPhone, on 3G, and everything loaded up, including the video links in around 25 seconds. Also for that matter, when's the last time the thread broke?

You've typed more words discussing how many videos were posted than what's in the videos themselves. Please let me post in peace.
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I could care less about the 9 videos you put in one single post. Considering half the shit is on the WWEFanNation YouTube channel, which I assume everyone visits at some point, is useless to post here. I can see if it's one or two videos you want to talk about, but when there's 3+ (NINE to be exact) .. that's a little fucking outrageous. Tone it down.

In other words, allow me to sum this up in one simple sentence:

Shut the fuck up, Zen Davis.

 
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neocisco said:
When the thread was loaded with gifs, just like mitch079 posted. Video links slow down pages, that's a fact.

Well, that's just patently false and deters from any valid point you may or may not have.

Be considerate of others so they can read the thread in peace.
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This post alone was over 50 words. The post on the Cesaro videos was only 22 words. Please stop giving wrestling fans a bad name and learn to count. Hah.

If you guys don't want to watch or talk about professional wrestling, leave. There are plenty of other threads like the OT where you can center on arguing with other people. This ain't that thread.

Wrestler leaves WWE:​
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b7C8mJvases
 
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