The "Stay Classy, Republicans" Super Nintendo Chalmers Thread

So, basically, I'm a troll because I have an opinion that differs from some of the folks on a forum where I've been a member for years and I have a valid interest in the primary aspect of the forum.

Meanwhile, particular members here go out of their way to admittedly actively troll other forums... and let's celebrate and laugh with them about how awesome it is to troll.
 
[quote name='nasum']I can't even figure out how to read their layout. It's truly appaling. Or do you mean the Detroit Free Press?


What the hell is Santorum talking about? Do you think he even knows?[/QUOTE]
Freerepublic.com. And yes, their homepage is atrocious, but that's because the owner is too busy living off all of the "donations" to hire a better web designer.

I think Santorum is trying to bring back the Cold War. Too bad he's not the only one!

[quote name='speedracer']I've gone to gun shows a couple of times to buy a gun but always walk out incredulous at all the OBAMANAZI ANTICHRIST garbage I have to wade through. There needs to be liberal gun shows.

Long way of saying I have zero doubt they're completely insane because they're completely insane in person.[/QUOTE]
No joke man. I can't imagine the bullshit I'm going to hear when I go buy a gun at the local b&m's. One of them used to have a huge Fox News banner a while ago, but took it down.

[quote name='UncleBob']So, basically, I'm a troll because I have an opinion that differs from some of the folks on a forum where I've been a member for years and I have a valid interest in the primary aspect of the forum.

Meanwhile, particular members here go out of their way to admittedly actively troll other forums... and let's celebrate and laugh with them about how awesome it is to troll.[/QUOTE]
I don't see anyone celebrating, but ok...

Also, a forum like Hannity's, Beck's, Freep, or Drudge aren't going to have the most informed posters and that's putting it lightly.
 
I own a single rifle given to me by my grandfather before he died. I go target shooting every once and a while with a friend. Despite that, I can't get into what I see as the gun culture. I don't feel threatened, I don't feel like I'm under attack, I don't feel the need to be packin' heat to go to the grocery store. I just like shooting at targets, but a lot of the guns owners that show up at these rallies and shops just embarrass me. They act like their very freedoms are at stake, and I just want to shoot targets.
 
It *is* pretty interesting how the left has ceded the ground on firearms to crazy militia motherfuckers on the right (i.e., not just "the right").

The notion of self-defense is universal and not up for political debate. We've allowed the discussion of firearms to be an all-or-nothing, anti-intellectual one. We haven't stood up and commented on the false dichotomy of "freedom loving gun rights advocates" and "statist gun-hating oppressors." Just like we ceded ground on the US flag as a symbol to the right, when it's the symbol of the nation.

Kinda irksome, that.

n.b. - I don't own guns myself.
 
Don't forget that during the last election you weren't American if you didn't have the flag pin on your lapel.
 
I was watching a wrestling documentary on the Four Horsemen over the weekend.

Eric Cantor = Paul Roma. Certainly the spitting image of him, but also someone who was launched to far too high a platform in their career for what they deserve. In ten years we'll be saying "really? that dude was the whip?"

How did he demonstrate his anger?
 
Oh, so you mean his reactions shown on camera during the SOTU, not necessarily any interviews given after (since Mitch Daniels gave the GOP rebuttal, I knew it wasn't that).
 
can anyone explain the lunatic right's obsession with "mainstream" media when their talking heads on the radio and TV continually get better ratings than their so called mainstream and aggressively liberal counterparts?
I mean yeah, cognitive dissonance and all that, but seriously...
 
Because they think that the media is liberal and therefore anyone who isn't is outside of the mainstream. If you ask me I think it's just them pissing their panties because the "liberals media" won't take them seriously. Its like they got pissed about not being in the "club" and decided to start their own. The problem is the only way they can differentiate themselves is by being increasingly ridiculous.
 
It's a great defense mechanism - any ideas or arguments that your ideology is not sound can be easily disregarded with the simple notion that the people conveying the message that you are wrong have a vested interest in making you think you are wrong.

It also scares the media at times into a phony "let's have left v right" dialogue with weaklings on the left (though they're easy enough to come by) and braggadocios dumbfucks on the right. Someone as smarmy and just plain fucking *stupid* as Eric Erickson would never get air time if they were a liberal.

It also means the media won't stand up to bullshit 'think tanks' that have a vested interest in proving a particular political worldview via dubious analysis (e.g., Heritage, Cato, Club for Growth). They are reticent to analyze, similarly, how fucking absurd policy proposals on the right are (e.g., Paul Ryan's budget proposal).

We have to more or less rely on people like Paul Krugman for that. One against many.
 
[quote name='62t']http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/gingrich-vows-establish-colony-moon-15443391

I wish I am making this up[/QUOTE]

I've said it a few times, but modern liberals shouldn't have any problem with Gingrich's view of the role of government. They will disagree with his prescriptions from time to time, but he firmly believes in activist government.

The same applies with Romney and Santorum.

In any event, why I love my fellow Paulians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAL7rpUZCb4&feature=player_embedded
 
Agreeing that the government has a role is completely irrelevant and also stupid. Yes, we both believe in activist government. And? That doesnt lead to me agreeing with a single thing that he would do with it.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Agreeing that the government has a role is completely irrelevant and also stupid. Yes, we both believe in activist government. And? That doesnt lead to me agreeing with a single thing that he would do with it.[/QUOTE]

Rick Santorum, touting his record in 2006:

http://mediacdn.reuters.com/media/us/editorial/pdf/50Things.pdf

Surely, there are things in there with which you agree.

The gig with Republicans is that they campaign like Goldwater, and govern like Rockefeller. Or, in Newt's case, work on Rockefeller's campaign and claim in 2012 that he was a Goldwater supporter.
 
Anyone catch the last episode of Real Time from last week? There was segment where Maher quoted a few statistics gathered by Public Policy Polling for the show. Despite all the conservative outrage about things like gay marriage and just homosexuals in general, 47% polled would vote for a gay presidential candidate compared to 30% for an atheist candidate. So yeah, we know what the line in the sand apparently is for republicans. They'd sooner vote for someone with a lifestyle they abhor, than someone who doesn't believe in god.

What I'd like to see now is if they'd vote for a Muslim candidate over an atheist.
 
Oh I know about his ethics violations and all that. It's just that in recent years he seemed to be forgiven. i mean between him and Mitt Rommney, I never would have thought Gingrich would be the one having to defend himself from his own party.
 
I would. The family values stuff should hurt him among the religious right some, he got slammed before for conceding too much to Clinton and the democrats when he got ran out of congress that gives conservatives ammo for attacking him on policy.

And then he talks about stupid shit like starting a moon base (great clip about this on the Daily Show front page) etc. and gives them even more ammo for him being out of touch etc.

Not saying Romney is ideal either with his wealth and how he got it hurting him among some poor conservatives and independents, his Mormonism hurting him among the Christian right.

It's really amazing that with such a weak sitting president that the Republicans couldn't come up with a better candidate than this group.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I would. The family values stuff should hurt him among the religious right some, he got slammed before for conceding too much to Clinton and the democrats when he got ran out of congress that gives conservatives ammo for attacking him on policy.

And then he talks about stupid shit like starting a moon base (great clip about this on the Daily Show front page) etc. and gives them even more ammo for him being out of touch etc.

Not saying Romney is ideal either with his wealth and how he got it hurting him among some poor conservatives and independents, his Mormonism hurting him among the Christian right.

It's really amazing that with such a weak sitting president that the Republicans couldn't come up with a better candidate than this group.[/QUOTE]

So at this point it's looking like Romney or Gingrich. How can that possibly be their "best chance" of beating Obama? It can't, I think they've already conceded this election, just like the last one.

I mean, how is the first thing out of Obama's mouth at the first debate going to NOT be either:

A: "Newt Gingrich, let's talk about family values. Then let's discuss ethics, lobbying for healthcare, and hell let's talk about child labor while we're at it? Once we're done, let's go stare at the moon for a while"

B: "Mitt Romney, let's talk about taxes and all of us paying our fair share. How about we talk about leveraged buyots after that?

I mean, unless they have a trick up their sleeves, the Republicans have positioned themselves such that the democrats can have a fucking high schooler run strategy on their re-election.
 
I think the right vilifying Gingrich is deliberate and I can't figure out why.

Perhaps it's paranoia, but it's also experience. We have simply not seen this kind of party infighting when there have been GOP primaries. Not in 2008, not in 2000, and not even in 1996 (when was the last time they were up against a Democratic incumbent, so perhaps it's the most fitting comparison point). Candidates always disagreed politely in debates, even if their disagreements were fervent. They've been an exceptionally good party at staying on message, being certain to use the same semantic frameworks and phrases as a coordinated effort of showing solidarity and consistency...so this is not just uncommon, it's the very opposite of a previously very disciplined party (a party with very little variation, mind).

So I think it's one of two things causing this:
1) Deliberately trying to paint the candidates as not "ideal" GOP candidates because they aren't lockstep (or so they'd have us believe). Someone to the left of GOP doctrine would, therefore, be more palatable to the "independent" voters. The GOP knows that these voters are fickle, stupid, and make their decisions with very little information available to them (they are not, as the media frames them, thoughtful, decisive people who carefully weigh the options, platforms, and policy proposals of all the candidates). They are only smart enough to say things like "both parties do it" - so if that resonates this year, then a candidate who the left despises, but the right also mildly vilifies, may actually benefit. The big risk here is whether or not independent voters will come out in droves for someone that nobody really likes.

2) They see that Gingrich, Romney, Santorum and Paul are all unelectable fuckheads, and the public display of their infighting is more the backstage fight ("HOW COULD WE fuck THIS UP AT ALL, LET ALONE THIS EARLY?!?!?!?!") coming to the frontstage.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
It also scares the media at times into a phony "let's have left v right" dialogue with weaklings on the left (though they're easy enough to come by) and braggadocios dumbfucks on the right. Someone as smarmy and just plain fucking *stupid* as Eric Erickson would never get air time if they were a liberal.

It also means the media won't stand up to bullshit 'think tanks' that have a vested interest in proving a particular political worldview via dubious analysis (e.g., Heritage, Cato, Club for Growth). They are reticent to analyze, similarly, how fucking absurd policy proposals on the right are (e.g., Paul Ryan's budget proposal).[/QUOTE]

ABC - owned by Disney
Fox - News Corp
NBC - GE
CNN - Time Warner
CBS - CBS Corp

None of these are what I would think of as 'liberal' entities. Adhering to the first rule of journalism best express during Watergate: Follow the money. Since these supposed 'liberal mainstream media' outlets are ultimately backed by multinational corporation money, I find the idea that they are inherently liberally biased laughable at best.

And this 'fair and balanced' act that all of them have adopted result not in reasoned discussion, but rather (IMO irksome) 'political theater'. But I guess that brings in money in the form or advertisers and, in the case of the participants, in the form of fundraising/book sales.

It'd be honestly hilarious if people's lives weren't so affected by it.

As to why the GOP is allowing this 'infighting' to be so public, one article/opinion I read suggested that they pretty much have decided that Obama's re-election is unstoppable so they have put forth sacrificial lambs. Romney is only 'sort-of' like them, but is also a dime-a-dozen so finding a different corporatist to run wouldnt be hard at all (Jeb, Christie, Carly Fiorina). Him losing is no loss to them.

The real thing is to put the so-called tea partiers 'back in their place'. If Romney loses, they can just say it's cause the dumb tea-partiers didnt 'fall in line'. If it's Newt, and he loses, they can say 'see, dummies, we warned you'. Either way, the 'establishment' ends up looking like the 'smartest kid in the class' so they can run one of their (supposed) A-List candidates in 2016 when they are not facing off against the power of an incumbent. I doubt Biden will run and really, who is coming off the Democratic bench? Kaine? Bayh? Giffords? (only slightly j/k).

But I would like to challenge your assessment of the registered "Independents". Fickle? Yes, in the true sense of the word, meaning that they (we) hold no particular alliance to a party. But that doesnt mean that they dont hold particular beliefs and are all wishy-washy, or even uniformed. Many independents that I know are actually more hardline left/right than the major parties and have chosen independent because they dont think Ds &/or Rs go far enough.

And those in the middle generally really have an ideology that crosses the parties. In my personal experience, I've known many independents who are that way because many of their decisions are filtered through their religion. They are the personification of the "compassionate conservative". They are generally 'pro-life' and the 'traditional' family, but they also believe in educating kids, and not forcing seniors to choose between food and medicine. There was a time when members of both (national) parties expressed views like this so they might vote for a D this year and an R next. (see the rise of the Blue Dog Democrats)

Conversely, there are the fiscally conservative socially liberal types. These are the one you see attaching themselves to Ron Paul. You might argue that they are not informed on all aspects of politics. That's your choice. Kid's crying, I'll cut this short here.
 
[quote name='hostyl1']But I would like to challenge your assessment of the registered "Independents". Fickle? Yes, in the true sense of the word, meaning that they (we) hold no particular alliance to a party. But that doesnt mean that they dont hold particular beliefs and are all wishy-washy, or even uniformed. Many independents that I know are actually more hardline left/right than the major parties and have chosen independent because they dont think Ds &/or Rs go far enough.

And those in the middle generally really have an ideology that crosses the parties. In my personal experience, I've known many independents who are that way because many of their decisions are filtered through their religion. They are the personification of the "compassionate conservative". They are generally 'pro-life' and the 'traditional' family, but they also believe in educating kids, and not forcing seniors to choose between food and medicine. There was a time when members of both (national) parties expressed views like this so they might vote for a D this year and an R next. (see the rise of the Blue Dog Democrats)

Conversely, there are the fiscally conservative socially liberal types. These are the one you see attaching themselves to Ron Paul. You might argue that they are not informed on all aspects of politics. That's your choice. Kid's crying, I'll cut this short here.[/QUOTE]

We don't have the same definition of 'independent.' The independents you describe include people who ideologically identify with one party but lament that they, as you rightly put it, don't go "far enough." Libertarians are to the right of Republicans, progressives to the left of Democrats - both of these "independents" are upset that the party they left negotiates and makes concessions towards the other party.

But the important thing about these kind of independents is that:
1) they will reliably go to the voting booth.
2) they will reliably support one party, even begrudgingly so.

Republican expats who now identify as Libertarians because Bush increased government spending, debt, and took away civil liberties like it was his style (it was) - they're not going to vote for Obama, or any Democrat. Nevertheless, they're "independents" now.

The Independents I'm referring to are those who genuinely don't know who they are going to vote for. They're equally likely to vote for either candidate in any given race. These Independents pay little attention to current events, can name very few people sitting in political office (e.g., they can name the sitting President, but rarely the VP), don't identify with the major political issues of the day, etc. Nevertheless, they will vote.

Since most of us are pretty politically engaged, we almost assuredly don't know many of these people - and if we do, we rarely engage in political conversation with them (precisely because they're not interested in them, so they're not likely to bring them up).

There's some pretty consistent political science research about these voters. I'll do my best to find a few of them when I find some time.
 
http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/impeach-obama--20120126

NJ What if the Democrats still have control? What’s your scenario then?

NORQUIST Obama can sit there and let all the tax [cuts] lapse, and then the Republicans will have enough votes in the Senate in 2014 to impeach. The last year, he’s gone into this huddle where he does everything by executive order. He’s made no effort to work with Congress.

If Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, we'll impeach him.

*right*

stay classy, Norquist.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/impeach-obama--20120126



If Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, we'll impeach him.

*right*

stay classy, Norquist.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on myke, Grover is not threatening to impeach Pres. Obama iff (sic) he allows the tax cuts to expire.

Rather, he's saying that he want to impeach him *rightnow*, but they lack the votes to do so. He thinks that allowing the so-called Bush tax cuts (or the GOP awkwardly named Bush-Obama tax cuts) would lead to them taking back the Senate and thus having enough votes for impeachment. The 'high crimes and misdemeanors' forming the basis of the impeachment not being the tax issues, but the "Executive Orders". (it's still all bullshit though).

Since I dont quite believe in tit-4-tat, I will pray that G.N. doesnt find himself 'Extraordinarily Rendered'. I'm also sure others dont believe in praying. ;)
 
So, anyone else heard or read anything about immigration law in Alabama? There are any number of articles, I'll post this one just so it's clear what I'm talking about.

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-commentary/2012/01/viewpoints_alabama_immigration.html

edit-This story is about framers not being able to find enough workers.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=145497516

Notice it says they can't find enough legal American workers to hire. Granted that's probably at least in part because of the crap wage they pay, but then you know there would be complaints about the price of produce going up if they paid more as well. This is why I've said we owe illegal immigrants a measure of thanks. Much like the workers in China who make our shit for cheap to keep prices down, these folks are working our farms for cheap, keeping the price for produce lower than it really should be. But no, we'd rather shit on them and blame them for all our problems.
 
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[quote name='Clak']So, anyone else heard or read anything about immigration law in Alabama? There are any number of articles, I'll post this one just so it's clear what I'm talking about.

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-commentary/2012/01/viewpoints_alabama_immigration.html

edit-This story is about framers not being able to find enough workers.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=145497516

Notice it says they can't find enough legal American workers to hire. Granted that's probably at least in part because of the crap wage they pay, but then you know there would be complaints about the price of produce going up if they paid more as well. This is why I've said we owe illegal immigrants a measure of thanks. Much like the workers in China who make our shit for cheap to keep prices down, these folks are working our farms for cheap, keeping the price for produce lower than it really should be. But no, we'd rather shit on them and blame them for all our problems.[/QUOTE]
Wow, Alabama being racist? I'm shocked!
 
It's one of those really fine balancing points. Similar to people being mad that foreign manufacturing is in a boom at the moment, but then being happy that an iPad doesn't cost 200% of what it does now.

Then you also get the lunatics who don't understand that more Toyotas are made in the US than Chevy Trucks...
 
Well, considering that Apple made $400,000 in profit per employee last year, the need for it to (a) cost what it does or (b) be manufactured in slavish conditions simply do not wash.
 
I hate to do it with you man, but I call BS on grounds of relevancy due to Apple's profit centers are in digital distribution and not so much in hardware. Yeah sure, they make a bit on everything (it's not like they're nintendo!) but the lion's share of their income is from people buying Angry Birds 11 times. They build the iPad to be a platform for iTunes.
 
From a quick google, it's estimated that it costs Apple $326.60 to make an iPad 2. But that doesn't include costs for marketing, distribution, research and development etc.

So they are probably making a profit on each unit, but not a huge one.

It's been clear that they aren't marking those up tremendously, since the few Android tablets that are comparable in power, battery life form factor like the Xoom and the 10" Galaxy tab have cost pretty much the same. If the competitors can't undercut them on cost for comparable devices like they always have with phones, mp3 players, and computers, then there's apparently not much of an "Apple Tax" on iPads.

It's one area they decided to price the hardware low and make money on software.
 
I'm pretty sure that actual labor cost per unit is under 2%, but I don't think that an added 20% hike in msrp would be necessary to bring manufacturing back. I also doubt that actual profit on an ipad, or any apple product is under 10%. Not to mention that being able to mobilize a large workforce for last minute manufacturing changes with tea, crackers, and a 12 hour shift isn't something to be praised, especially when we're fully aware of the work environment. I still can't believe that guy from Apple used that excuse. He might as well have just said that we should roll back all workers rights and go back to the industrial revolution. fuckers like that need to be put against the wall.
 
I do agree with all that.

But don't act like Apple is alone on that front. Whatever android tablet you have (think you mentioned having one) was no doubt made under the same types of terrible conditions. Same with any other gadget. You pretty much have to either do with out electronics, or buy them with the knowledge that they were made in sweat shops.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']From a quick google, it's estimated that it costs Apple $326.60 to make an iPad 2. But that doesn't include costs for marketing, distribution, research and development etc.

So they are probably making a profit on each unit, but not a huge one.

It's been clear that they aren't marking those up tremendously, since the few Android tablets that are comparable in power, battery life form factor like the Xoom and the 10" Galaxy tab have cost pretty much the same. If the competitors can't undercut them on cost for comparable devices like they always have with phones, mp3 players, and computers, then there's apparently not much of an "Apple Tax" on iPads.

It's one area they decided to price the hardware low and make money on software.[/QUOTE]

Well Apple is the only one who can do that. None of the other android maker get any money from apps unless they run their own version like amazon
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I do agree with all that.

But don't act like Apple is alone on that front. Whatever android tablet you have (think you mentioned having one) was no doubt made under the same types of terrible conditions. Same with any other gadget. You pretty much have to either do with out electronics, or buy them with the knowledge that they were made in sweat shops.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. I'm fully aware that I purchase products that were assembled in sweatshops, had parts manufactured in sweatshops, materials for those parts mined with slave labor, and on and on in a complete ecosystem of oppression, death, and slavery. And when I dispose of the products, my trash will literally poison the developing country that the reycling company decided to skirt US environmental protection laws with.

I, in no way, want to play it off as being holier than thou(in the royal sense), but there's a huge difference between consumers and the capitalists that perpetuate these conditions. I pick on Apple because they seem to be proud of it, where as other companies try to keep it on the DL. Hell, I don't even really blame Foxconn because they're one manufacturer out of many and if it wasn't them, it'd just be someone else.

Funny thing is that I probably have more things made by Foxconn than not.

edit: Although, it'd be great if there was an alternative to this system and there are so many systems interacting with one another that it's probably impossible to dismantle for the forseeable future.
 
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[quote name='62t']Well Apple is the only one who can do that. None of the other android maker get any money from apps unless they run their own version like amazon[/QUOTE]

Very true. Which is a huge downside to Android IMO. The fragmentation and openess of the system keeps the app store from developing and exploding like Apple's had.

Apple has it's share of downsides with all the control they exert over things.

But honestly, I'm not a techie so none of that stuff really affects me. I'm not a tweaker or customzier and just like my gadgets to be super easy to use. App selection is key and Apple kills Android there. Especially on tablets with over 100,000 iPad apps, where as the last time I checked Android only had 100 or 200 tablet specific apps.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Fair point, but do you have the breakdown of DD vs hardware profit?[/QUOTE]

Nope.
I would imagine something to the tune of 80/20 but that's pure conjecture.

Also, contracted/outsourced labour wouldn't be counted against that $400k per employee profit which further skews the equation.

That's why I said I hate to do it, because I can't really back it up with solid facts which puts me on thin ice with my side of the argument. Though it is a sound argument.
 
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