Triple H's Wrestling Topic

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Monday's Raw did a 2.5 rating, the lowest it's done in 10 years. In comparison, Smackdown did a 2.6 last Friday. Was there anything noteworthy on TV to make the rating drop almost a whole point, or have people just finally completely given up?
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Why the hell did Nitro change to John Morrison anyway?[/quote]

Heard it was so he would be taken seriously...ya know, as a "world champ" and all
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Monday's Raw did a 2.5 rating, the lowest it's done in 10 years. In comparison, Smackdown did a 2.6 last Friday. Was there anything noteworthy on TV to make the rating drop almost a whole point, or have people just finally completely given up?[/quote]

That's awesome. WWE pulls all of SD's talent over to Raw, and still ratings continue to drop. I hope this wakes up Vince and Cena is pushed out so someone new can come in. Not sure if it'll be any better, but lord knows things can't get much worse.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Was there anything noteworthy on TV to make the rating drop almost a whole point, or have people just finally completely given up?[/quote]

Honestly, I think it's cause of Benoit murdering his family. Ever since news of that broke, the ratings have been disasterous. I have trouble watching WWE now knowing they hired someone that snapped and killed his family. I know I'm not the only one on here that thinks that. Even the Jackass people pulled out of Summerslam after they heard what happened.


TNA is the only show I can actually stand watching the whole show.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']Honestly, I think it's cause of Benoit murdering his family. Ever since news of that broke, the ratings have been disasterous. I have trouble watching WWE now knowing they hired someone that snapped and killed his family. I know I'm not the only one on here that thinks that. Even the Jackass people pulled out of Summerslam after they heard what happened.


TNA is the only show I can actually stand watching the whole show.[/quote]

I don't get that... it's not like WWE could've possibly known about what Benoit was going to do. I'm not trying to isolate you as the only one guilty of this, but you don't stop going to the post office after a disgruntled employee shoots one up, do you?

Benoit aside, WWE has dipped from pretty bad to downright awful as of late. They're starting to even push away some of their hardcore viewers that have been watching wrestling as far back as they can remember.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']Honestly, I think it's cause of Benoit murdering his family. Ever since news of that broke, the ratings have been disasterous. I have trouble watching WWE now knowing they hired someone that snapped and killed his family. I know I'm not the only one on here that thinks that. Even the Jackass people pulled out of Summerslam after they heard what happened.[/quote]I can understand that, but it doesn't make any sense to me why there'd be a whole point drop nearly a month after the fact, especially since they already experienced a drop from the killings.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']PhrostByte, are people downloading the OVW show over at the site you linked it at? I'm just curious if a number of people are watching OVW, or if I'm wasting my time capturing it.[/quote]
Hey man how's it going... I'm taking a minute out of my sleepless night on vacation in Bulgaria/Austria/Ukraine to check email/IMs/this thread soo... I kind of got banned from uploading because I didn't include proper NFO files. Bullshit.. yes I agree but what can you do?

BUT.. Before I got banned there were plenty of people downloading and leaving thanks... eh I'll figure something out when I get back.
 
man.. it looks like wwe is having raw/mains event in two weeks at the garden... sucks im going to miss it by a week. ill be out there next monday
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']That's awesome. WWE pulls all of SD's talent over to Raw, and still ratings continue to drop. I hope this wakes up Vince and Cena is pushed out so someone new can come in. Not sure if it'll be any better, but lord knows things can't get much worse.[/quote]
I'd say that at this point, WWE needs a complete Dallas-style reset. Vince wakes up, and realizes that he's been dreaming the past 5 or so years of WWE programming. All gimmicks are reset, all brands are redone, everything begins anew.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I'd say that at this point, WWE needs a complete Dallas-style reset. Vince wakes up, and realizes that he's been dreaming the past 5 or so years of WWE programming. All gimmicks are reset, all brands are redone, everything begins anew.[/quote]

Word to that, I said that like 6 months ago, too bad the product still sucks.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I'd say that at this point, WWE needs a complete Dallas-style reset. Vince wakes up, and realizes that he's been dreaming the past 5 or so years of WWE programming. All gimmicks are reset, all brands are redone, everything begins anew.[/QUOTE]

While I agree, it won't happen. Cena's going nowhere, as he's the only "sure thing" going right now. Triple H may argue that he should take the belt once he gets back, and he well may. Nevertheless, once that turns into "Champion Triple H beats everybody ever," people will yawn at the rerun prospect of that (both compared to Triple H's previous title runs, and Cena's own superhero push).

WWF moved from "Duke The Dumpster Droese" and "TL Hopper" to "WWF Attitude" when they were desperate for change and losing money out the ass around 1996. Today, they're still profitable all over the place, so it's hard to say how they'll react to sagging ratings. They did the sensible thing in 1996 and changed the product, but since then, their reaction to problems was always a "bring in controversy as a quick fix" attitude. My gut tells me they'll go that route again, while they should be going ROH-style, but with a WWE twist. Keep out the controversy, go back to "pro wrestling," and, most importantly from a company perspective, reinforce the viewer (and would-be viewers) that all kinds of shapes, sizes, and skills are professional wrestlers.

It's hard to watch WWE as a fan, or as a first-time viewer, keeping the media-fed steroid scandal in mind, and think "well, looking at guys like Cena, Lashley, Batista, Orton, Edge, and Triple H, *no wonder* there's a steroid scandal!" Pushing London/Kendrick, cruiserweights (and a lucha-style in the ring), and other guys who aren't massive hulks of muscle, would go a long way towards curing the WWE of their significant stigma right now.

Of course, instead of doing the sensible thing, they'll probably bring in some has-been media guy to work a match. Dog the Bounty Hunter, anyone?

...on another note, I scored free Warped Tour tickets today (Tiger Army and Bad Religion FTW!). Mexico's AAA promotion had a ring setup, and had three matches throughout the day. I saw Psicosis (original masked gimmick, but not the original Psicosis that was in WWE recently - the original passed the gimmick onto this guy, and became "Nicho El Millionario" in Mexico instead) team with Inocable (sp?) to take on Super Triple A and El Angel. Coolest of all was that Lucha Legend Pierroth (!) was the referee. A fun match, a very "light" style (watching luchadors up close really takes away the gloss of wrestling), and very short (but it was like 95 out today). I don't know if they're going to start working more often in the United States, but with stables like the Hell Brothers, great wrestlers and gimmicks that I'm starting to follow (plus TNA die hards can see Ron Killings and Konnan working there right now), I'd be quite happy to see them come into the United States to tour.

Triple A, like other indies and promotions, reminds me about conversations I had about punk rock with friends - yes, you're old and bitter about the direction the youth counterculture has gone (like we're bitter with the WWE monopoly and how they seem to consistently suck at doing pro wrestling); nevertheless, internet technology and globalization have given us the chance, with music or pro wrestling, to watch what we want or listen to what we want. We have access to great Japanese wrestling, great Mexican wrestling, great indy wrestling from the other coast...it's at our fingertips. Yes, WWE may suck, or Epitaph records may suck (or whomever it's cool to hate these days)...but that's just a sign of your laziness. There's some godDAMN good wrestling out there, and it's your fault you're bitching about WWE instead of watching what you'd like to see.

Now, of course, one can enjoy good indy wrestling and still bitch about the WWE. The short and simple point is that, right now, it *is* a good time to be a wrestling fan. We're well past tape trading days, y'all.
 
I don't think the original Psicosis passed the gimmick onto the new guy - Pena claimed ownership of it and forced Psicosis to change his name outside the U.S., then made another Psicosis. The same kind of thing happened with La Parka, which led to a billion La Parka knock-offs.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Now, of course, one can enjoy good indy wrestling and still bitch about the WWE. The short and simple point is that, right now, it *is* a good time to be a wrestling fan. We're well past tape trading days, y'all.[/quote]

I agree completely myke. There is plenty of good, if not great, wrestling out there. People just need to move beyond whatever is being offered and check out what else is out there.

I seriously think the WWE will search out for another Trump/Jackass type angle to fix this ratings problem they're undergoing. The fact though is that until they start trying to bring back the hardcore fans, I don't see the company getting a consistent 4.0 or above rating.

The problem is that all the creative heads in the WWE are self-indulgent tightasses who simply aren't willing to give the fans what they want. They'd rather push who they want onto us so that if the person gets over, they can feel good about themselves rather than to push the people who will carry and represent the industry. We've seen it with Cena, Lashley, Triple H (back in the day), and a number of other wrestlers who we're just tired of, and yet they still appear on our television sets. It just gets old after a while.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']I don't get that... it's not like WWE could've possibly known about what Benoit was going to do. I'm not trying to isolate you as the only one guilty of this, but you don't stop going to the post office after a disgruntled employee shoots one up, do you?
[/QUOTE]

WWE didn't know about it unless you want to get into conspiracies, however, atleast at work there has been alot of negativity about wrestling, even more so then before because of the Benoit situation. I myself stopped watching wrestling (but I still read about it avidly) after the Benoit situation because it put a sour taste in my mouth knowing my favorite wrestler ever (behind Steve Blackman of course ;) snapped. It's going to take awhile, and like Scott Keith said he watched wrestling after Owen's death but it was a long time. Same situation here as I believe WWE ratings fell quite a lot when Owen passed.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I agree completely myke. There is plenty of good, if not great, wrestling out there. People just need to move beyond whatever is being offered and check out what else is out there.

I seriously think the WWE will search out for another Trump/Jackass type angle to fix this ratings problem they're undergoing. The fact though is that until they start trying to bring back the hardcore fans, I don't see the company getting a consistent 4.0 or above rating.

The problem is that all the creative heads in the WWE are self-indulgent tightasses who simply aren't willing to give the fans what they want. They'd rather push who they want onto us so that if the person gets over, they can feel good about themselves rather than to push the people who will carry and represent the industry. We've seen it with Cena, Lashley, Triple H (back in the day), and a number of other wrestlers who we're just tired of, and yet they still appear on our television sets. It just gets old after a while.[/QUOTE]

Quite true. I will hesitantly argue that the sun has already set on CM Punk. The fans couldn't give a fuck about Santino Marella. The entire tag team divison (on both shows). All cruiserweights. Never given a chance. They can tell me all they want about how individuals need to "carry the ball when it is passed to them" (and such a tired and trite metaphor, too!), but it's simply grossly untrue.

WWE was lucky with The Rock, in that he became a red hot heel (because the fans hated his guts). That only came about because the fans reacted nastily to how clearly he was being forced down their throats. Thinking about the upper card right now, every single guy was forced down our throats - Cena, Lashley, Triple H, Khali, Jim Morrison. We were quite clearly told who we were supposed to like, and other guys buried without notice (see, again, the tag teams and cruisers). Strangely enough, two guys who I *don't* think were forced in the upper card right now are Randy Orton and Batista (and we all know how I - and you - feel about Batista). They benefitted from being part of Evolution, which is somewhat forced, but since the crux of the focus on that group was Triple H, it was an indirect force feeding at best.

I bristle every time I read about WWE guys claiming to "take the ball and run with it." Ask Balls Mahoney or Tommy Dreamer about that ball. Ask The Highlanders, or Cryme Tyme, or WGTT, about that ball. Ask any cruiserweight if they have ever seen said ball. It's absurd, and it's dreadfully phony protectionism.

There is great wrestling out there; I'm going to start watching AAA each week. I'd like to learn a new language, and if I can do so by watching good pro wrestling, great! The only drawback to AAA is that X-Pac is in it right now. :lol: Can't win 'em all, I suppose.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There is great wrestling out there; I'm going to start watching AAA each week. I'd like to learn a new language, and if I can do so by watching good pro wrestling, great! The only drawback to AAA is that X-Pac is in it right now. :lol: Can't win 'em all, I suppose.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather watch X-Pac over, say, Pacman Jones or John Cena.
 
This goes back to ending the brand split. Too many injuries, the roster is spread too thin, and all for what? So Vince can run extra house shows and make more money... with clever marketing and scheduling he could keep his money, end the roster split and improve ratings.

I hate to dig up this dead horse and kick it some more, but 5 years later the two brands still don't offer anything different from each other. Even the revived ECW doesn't hold true to its hardcore roots.

The frustration for a long-time fan has reached an all-time high. At least during the pre-attitude boom, we had WCW to fall back upon. TNA just isn't at that level yet.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']This goes back to ending the brand split. Too many injuries, the roster is spread too thin, and all for what? So Vince can run extra house shows and make more money... with clever marketing and scheduling he could keep his money, end the roster split and improve ratings.

I hate to dig up this dead horse and kick it some more, but 5 years later the two brands still don't offer anything different from each other. Even the revived ECW doesn't hold true to its hardcore roots.

The frustration for a long-time fan has reached an all-time high. At least during the pre-attitude boom, we had WCW to fall back upon. TNA just isn't at that level yet.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with a brand split and everything to do with proper booking. They essentially gutted Smackdown during the last draft and it still hasn't helped. King Booker still has his lame gimmick. Cena is still stale. The brand split has nothing to do with it.

Just because you refuse to watch anything that isn't on network/cable TV, doesn't mean the long term wrestling fan doesn't have anything to watch. I just watched an amazing El Generico / Claudio Cagliostro ROH match last Saturday night live in Edison, NJ and JJSP watched a great PWG show whereever he's at.

If you read Myke's post, he makes a great argument for being a wrestling fan right now. Just because you can't move beyond the WWE doesn't mean that there isn't anything else out there for you to watch.
 
The WWE needs to realize that they can't keep using cheap angles to try to draw an audience. It's not all about publicity. The Macmahon death thing probably only got people to watch one episode of WWE programming before either the news let them know that it was fake or the entire Beniot scandal happened. Also, you can't take a Trump v MacMahon feud seriously. You won't bring in any new viewers with that. They'll think professional wrestling is more of a joke than they already thought.

Even though they are not using most of the talent or good ideas on their roster, I always seem to stop and belive how hard it is to write a mainstream professional wrestling show these days. You've got MMA rising up, which is real. People like real. You've also got the fact that kayfabe is fading away. More and more smarks and not enough marks because of the internet. And the smarks enjoy their comforatable airchair and prefer not to get into the ring. This makes it harder for the WWE to keep kayfabe. OK, so Khali winning the WHT was supposed to be a big thing. Other websites said something about it first, so lets be like thing and not only reveal the fact that smackdown is taped on tuesdays, but lets give away everything that happened on our website. They did just that a few weeks ago and I was shocked. I, personally, don't think it went well. But it just goes to show some of the things that they have to go through. It not as easy to write a show as it may seem. And if it is, then maybe you should get a job in hollywood writing soap operas under cover so the WWE can eventually finally have a wrestling fan in Creative.
 
Hey guys. There is a ROH show uploaded that you guys should check out. It's one of the Japanese shows the company did except the production is much, much better than the regular ROH productions. The show was apparently shot in conjunction with Samurai TV and the so the video is actually broadcast quality rather than the DV stuff ROH normally shoots on. I highly suggest checking it out.

Send me a PM and I can send it to you over AIM if you want.
 
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_OHrJE5Klg[/MEDIA]

And apparently someone is fucking with the ROH booker Gabe Sapolsky. Something about some pictures of his family going online and the ROH community thinking it was some kind of angle, but it looks like its not.

Ok, all this crap ends now. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm in a bad mood because I am. I am trying my best to keep my composure. I just had a long day/night of production on the Japan DVDs. I sign on here, I'm actually feeling pretty good about things because I just watched a lot of great wrestling from our Japan shows. So what do I find:

1) A private email I send to someone requesting that photos and information about my family be taken off a website is now made public. This is my family, not an angle. Understand that. When I send you an email it is private. When I make a request about my family it is real. Lets get that straight right now.

2) The clowns who are attempting to f*** with my life and ROH, which is my life, spam this board again after it takes me two hours the other night to clean it up. Not only that, but other people decide to jump in. I am about to start banning people like crazy so I suggest everyone read the rules and stick to them quickly. My patience is running out. Again, I am trying to keep my composure here, but I have had enough. I now have to go clean up the board again after a long day of production. I suggest if you are in doubt about something you posted that you delete it to yourself. I will ban anyone involved with any posts that are in doubt of breaking any rules. This is a warning. If this doesn't apply to you and you are a productive member of this board I apologize and please ignore this rant.

3) Now we have more people than ever checking this board and it is a disgrace to the company. I want everyone to know that police have been alerted and I will do whatever I can to stop these websites and harrassment both to me personally and my wife. This is your warning. Stop it now.

That is all for now. I'm not playing a sick game here. It is over and I need to go back to doing what deserves my attention and that's making ROH and FIP as good as possible for you.

If this doesn't apply to you sorry for the rant. If it does then take this warning seriously.
Click to expand...

http://www.abusedsociety.com/

I believe that's the site since it looks to have a picture of Gabe and a woman. I'm presuming its his wife. There is some argument that it might be a work, but nobody really knows as of now.
 
I wonder if there's a certain demographic that has stopped watching Raw which has led to the bad ratings.

I wonder if it's families who have stopped watching due to the Benoit thing, if thats the case I guess it's just a matter of letting the controversy blow over and they'll start watching again,

Or is it people like me, getting toward the older end of the Male 18-30 demographic the WWE seems to love, was a big fan back in the attitude days but have lost interest now. Not a real hardcore wrestling fan but found it entertaining back in the day, now due to a lower quality product I'm not that interested.

If thats the case I don't think there's a lot the WWE can really do.

Maybe it's a bit of both.
 
I'm putting this TNA questions in the spoiler button, as it contains a spoiler:

Is Test supposed to debut on tonight's impact! ?
 
[quote name='Brak']I'm putting this TNA questions in the spoiler button, as it contains a spoiler:

Is Test supposed to debut on tonight's impact! ?
[/quote]

According to the taping results. Yeah, "The Punisher" shows up tonight.
 
I thought the whole point of the draft was to make it Smackdown vs. Raw. (and now vs. ECW). Are they ever going to do this? This is the thing I most want to see. Maybe they already tried and failed (besides Invasion) I stopped watching wrestling for a couple years.

I'm going to watch TNA tonight for the first time since those Weekly PPVs. Hopefully it's good.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']That was the original point of the draft, but that isn't what it meant for this past draft.[/quote]

Yeah, with the last one, it seems all they did was shift the dead weight to another brand. Come to think of it, isn't is time they sent Taker to Raw? Much like when Angle was on SD, Taker's faced everyone.
 
Myke,

AAA Wrestling is great. I saw it for the first (and only) time while I was in Nevada visiting my parents. I was flipping the channels and ran into it. Even with X-Pac there, it was highly entertaining wrestling (put both WWE and TNA to shame).

Too bad it wasn't on across the country. I'd be willing to tape it at 4am on a Sunday morning if that's when they wanted to air it.

Is it on the net anywhere (having done no research, I'm hoping it isn't at AAAwrestling.com or something easy like that).
 
I used to game with wrestler from down south... Justin Envy...I can't remember what promotion, but it was a southern one..
 
[quote name='PWInsider.com']The USA Network sent out an advisory today announcing that Raw will open on Monday with the first appearance of "WWE Chairman Mr. McMahon" after a "prolounged absence."[/quote]Desperation seems to be kicking in. I wonder how they're going to end up explaining his time off the air now that the angle was completely killed though.
 
This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

WWE.com
 
[quote name='Matt Young']This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

WWE.com[/quote]

nice.. mchmahons return should spike the ratings
 
Oh boy, I can't wait! Will the "kiss my ass" club return? Will he give Stephanie a rematch from their PPV main event? Will Katie Vick run in and make the save?

Anything can happen in the WWE! Anything, that is, except for sensible angles, real character development, and professional wrestling.

I wonder what wrestlecrap the WWE braintrust is cooking up now. :roll:
 
Vince should just come out and say he's reshuffling the shows again, but this time he needs to make them all more equal. I'd LOVE a wrestling program where you watch it and maybe have a good idea who's going to win, but that honestly, ANYTHING could happen. Kinda like when Carlito beat Cena. I personally like Carlito and couldn't believe he PINNED Cena instead of a DQ or something else stupid. While this will more than likely never ever happen, I'd personally love to see it, but egos are just too damn big in the wrestling world. In all honesty, stripping most of the titles off the people who have them wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe hold matches where if the champ loses, he loses his belt, and they could make them champion vs champion matches or something to that degree. Khali, Deuce & Domino, Cade & Murdoch, get rid of the cruiser belt, and I'd say that'd be decent enough to generate a little interest IF they took it seriously, but we all know I'm pretty much just wasting my time typing this out :D
 
Everyone suggesting a hard reset seems to be forgetting just how well it worked for WCW when they did it in 2000.

It didn't, and many people cite it as one of the final blows that helped to kill off WCW (although at that point the ball had so much momentum it's doubtful it could've been stopped).
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']It has nothing to do with a brand split and everything to do with proper booking. They essentially gutted Smackdown during the last draft and it still hasn't helped. King Booker still has his lame gimmick. Cena is still stale. The brand split has nothing to do with it.

Just because you refuse to watch anything that isn't on network/cable TV, doesn't mean the long term wrestling fan doesn't have anything to watch. I just watched an amazing El Generico / Claudio Cagliostro ROH match last Saturday night live in Edison, NJ and JJSP watched a great PWG show whereever he's at.

If you read Myke's post, he makes a great argument for being a wrestling fan right now. Just because you can't move beyond the WWE doesn't mean that there isn't anything else out there for you to watch.[/quote]

Why are you such an asshole? Seriously? Just leave me the fuck alone dude.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']Yeah, with the last one, it seems all they did was shift the dead weight to another brand. Come to think of it, isn't is time they sent Taker to Raw? Much like when Angle was on SD, Taker's faced everyone.[/quote]

They tried that once... I believe Taker fancies himself the SD locker room leader, while The H's is the Raw leader. Works out that way I guess. Still be better to just have one legit champion again with the roster so depleted with injuries at this point. Plus the lack of overall good talent.

[quote name='Genocidal']Desperation seems to be kicking in. I wonder how they're going to end up explaining his time off the air now that the angle was completely killed though.[/quote]

Ya, this is definitely the work of a very desparate man. Be interesting to see how (or if) he acknowledges the whole death angle.
 
Alright then, I've got a topic I was going to post before Demoman posted the AMW topic, and then Scorch with the Triple H topic, so I'm posting it now as I'll be off playing basketball for the next 3 hours+

No one special, but it does tie in with the first ever wrestling topic.
 
I don't see them doing anything more than a passing mention of it, and I find it interesting to read that Vince is looking for "out of the box" thinking... and then decides to open Raw with himself, like about four billion Raws. Hopefully the company decided to change directions, like they did with his last legit big-time speech, where he announced the beginning of the Attitude era.
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan']I don't see them doing anything more than a passing mention of it, and I find it interesting to read that Vince is looking for "out of the box" thinking... and then decides to open Raw with himself, like about four billion Raws. Hopefully the company decided to change directions, like they did with his last legit big-time speech, where he announced the beginning of the Attitude era.[/quote]

To me the solution is very simple: Vince needs to start listening to the fans again (who they cheer/boo) and stop listening to his ego.
 
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