Urologist tells Obama supporters to go elsewhere
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fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='dopa345']The Hippocratic oath is simply a quaint tradition as an ego boost to over-stressed medical students. I do not worship Apollo and I definitely did not get the opportunity to learn my "art" for free.
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
Should we start referring to you as Dr. BMull?
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
Should we start referring to you as Dr. BMull?
Trancendental
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[quote name='dopa345']The Hippocratic oath is simply a quaint tradition as an ego boost to over-stressed medical students. I do not worship Apollo and I definitely did not get the opportunity to learn my "art" for free.
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
At least you're a conservative who's honest about it.
If you can pay for the treatment and agree with the doc's politics you have a chance, if someone is poor you'd rather they just die quickly. Am I warm here?
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
At least you're a conservative who's honest about it.
If you can pay for the treatment and agree with the doc's politics you have a chance, if someone is poor you'd rather they just die quickly. Am I warm here?
BigT
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[quote name='dopa345']The Hippocratic oath is simply a quaint tradition as an ego boost to over-stressed medical students. I do not worship Apollo and I definitely did not get the opportunity to learn my "art" for free.
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not like we were asked to study and memorize the hippocratic oath. I think we recited a version of it once during graduation...
...technically, if you want to be true to the hippocratic oath, it did not allow for abortion, but since that's not so convenient, it's been quietly cut out.
But, I'll leave that to the OB/GYNs...
Also Hippocrates didn't have to deal with government bureaucracy and third party payors intruding in the practice of medicine.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not like we were asked to study and memorize the hippocratic oath. I think we recited a version of it once during graduation...
...technically, if you want to be true to the hippocratic oath, it did not allow for abortion, but since that's not so convenient, it's been quietly cut out.
But, I'll leave that to the OB/GYNs...
Trancendental
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[quote name='BigT']...technically, if you want to be true to the hippocratic oath, it did not allow for abortion, but since that's not so convenient, it's been quietly cut out. But, I'll leave that to the OB/GYNs...[/QUOTE]
What a
ing cop out. Why don't you try and back your claims instead of playing this chicken shit hit-and-run game.
But, I'll leave that to the OB/GYNs...[/QUOTE]What a
ing cop out. Why don't you try and back your claims instead of playing this chicken shit hit-and-run game.
BigT
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[quote name='mykevermin']You have:
1) A very conservative district in FL, so you have a relatively small population of Dems.
2) Around 12% Black population - who are more likely to be Dems than other residents.
Kind of a de facto result, right? That's what Grayson said if you want to interpret his words verbatim - he didn't say the physician was intentionally acting in a discriminatory manner, he was saying the doctor was simply being discriminatory - intentionally or inadvertently. Seems plausible given basic demographics.
So, there, I've humored you. Now refute Grayson's claim.[/QUOTE]
Really? Are you serious or is this a belated April Fools joke?
OMG, he may have committed a thought crime without even knowing it! Let's send him to the Ministry of Love!
1) A very conservative district in FL, so you have a relatively small population of Dems.
2) Around 12% Black population - who are more likely to be Dems than other residents.
Kind of a de facto result, right? That's what Grayson said if you want to interpret his words verbatim - he didn't say the physician was intentionally acting in a discriminatory manner, he was saying the doctor was simply being discriminatory - intentionally or inadvertently. Seems plausible given basic demographics.
So, there, I've humored you. Now refute Grayson's claim.[/QUOTE]
Really? Are you serious or is this a belated April Fools joke?
OMG, he may have committed a thought crime without even knowing it! Let's send him to the Ministry of Love!
BigT
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[quote name='camoor']What a ing cop out. Why don't you try and back your claims instead of playing this chicken shit hit-and-run game.[/QUOTE]
Hit and run game? Sorry, I actually work during the day and get home late... I don't have time to closely follow these threads throughout the day...
But OK.
How would you like me to back up my claims.
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html
"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
There was a statement against abortion in the original hippocratic oath.
Look at a modern version... that statement is no longer there...
This is actually a good summary:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1103798
It is what it is...
Happy?
ing cop out. Why don't you try and back your claims instead of playing this chicken shit hit-and-run game.[/QUOTE]Hit and run game? Sorry, I actually work during the day and get home late... I don't have time to closely follow these threads throughout the day...
But OK.
How would you like me to back up my claims.
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html
"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
There was a statement against abortion in the original hippocratic oath.
Look at a modern version... that statement is no longer there...
This is actually a good summary:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1103798
It is what it is...
Happy?
[quote name='camoor']At least you're a conservative who's honest about it.
If you can pay for the treatment and agree with the doc's politics you have a chance, if someone is poor you'd rather they just die quickly. Am I warm here?[/QUOTE]
No, perhaps you missed my first post in this discussion where I disagreed with the idea of allowing personal politics to get in the way of delivering care to one's patients. I happen to work in an academic medical center which treats anybody and everybody. I've cared for countless illegal immigrants, prisoners including murderers and sexual offenders. I'm also cared for "VIP's": local politicians, family members of colleagues and even one well-known sports star. In all cases, the care I provide is completely the same because it's my job and also my calling.
However doctors are human and have the right to hold political opinions like everyone else and even the right to express them at the workplace if they so choose as long as it doesn't harm the patient which is the fundamental point of the Hippocratic oath anyway.
The outrage would be better directed at the albatross of a plan which due to unintended consquences, is going to make things worse. Already, local governments are going to expect to raise taxes to cover the new tax on cadillac plans which local government workers receive. Congress also failed to fix Medicare's flawed reimbursement which really should have been the number one priority. Now providers have to cope with a 21% reimbursement cut and many are going to start dropping Medicare entirely if this doesn't get dealt with quickly. Of course, we'll have to wait until Congress comes back from vacation.
If you can pay for the treatment and agree with the doc's politics you have a chance, if someone is poor you'd rather they just die quickly. Am I warm here?[/QUOTE]
No, perhaps you missed my first post in this discussion where I disagreed with the idea of allowing personal politics to get in the way of delivering care to one's patients. I happen to work in an academic medical center which treats anybody and everybody. I've cared for countless illegal immigrants, prisoners including murderers and sexual offenders. I'm also cared for "VIP's": local politicians, family members of colleagues and even one well-known sports star. In all cases, the care I provide is completely the same because it's my job and also my calling.
However doctors are human and have the right to hold political opinions like everyone else and even the right to express them at the workplace if they so choose as long as it doesn't harm the patient which is the fundamental point of the Hippocratic oath anyway.
The outrage would be better directed at the albatross of a plan which due to unintended consquences, is going to make things worse. Already, local governments are going to expect to raise taxes to cover the new tax on cadillac plans which local government workers receive. Congress also failed to fix Medicare's flawed reimbursement which really should have been the number one priority. Now providers have to cope with a 21% reimbursement cut and many are going to start dropping Medicare entirely if this doesn't get dealt with quickly. Of course, we'll have to wait until Congress comes back from vacation.
Well if you want to be against abortion you should be 'worshipping Apollo' as dopa345 puts it. If thats cool with you go ahead and advocate to put the anti-abortion language back in there BigT.
Too bad Apollo probably will get killed by Kratos at some point in the future.
Too bad Apollo probably will get killed by Kratos at some point in the future.
mykevermin
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[quote name='BigT']Really? Are you serious or is this a belated April Fools joke?
OMG, he may have committed a thought crime without even knowing it! Let's send him to the Ministry of Love![/QUOTE]
You don't seem to understand what my point was - discriminatory behavior that is inadvertent doesn't lead to "send him to the reeducation camps!" except in the hyperbole of the mind of folks like you who can't have a conversation about racism.
Which is a different issue altogether from whether or not what he did was unintentionally or secretly racist.
OMG, he may have committed a thought crime without even knowing it! Let's send him to the Ministry of Love![/QUOTE]
You don't seem to understand what my point was - discriminatory behavior that is inadvertent doesn't lead to "send him to the reeducation camps!" except in the hyperbole of the mind of folks like you who can't have a conversation about racism.
Which is a different issue altogether from whether or not what he did was unintentionally or secretly racist.
[quote name='mykevermin']You don't seem to understand what my point was - discriminatory behavior that is inadvertent doesn't lead to "send him to the reeducation camps!" except in the hyperbole of the mind of folks like you who can't have a conversation about racism.
Which is a different issue altogether from whether or not what he did was unintentionally or secretly racist.[/QUOTE]
If you want to extrapolate that far, then most of your comments like this are also racist - as you are making an assumption (likely erroneous) based on the color of the urologist's skin and framing his intentions in that light. You know, instead of the much more obvious concept that the urologist didn't go to school and work his ass off just to get shafted by the government in the end... Thus, he is angry and expressing his anger towards the president who had the final say in the method linked in the OP.
Whether the urologist's protest is right or wrong, well that is obviously easy game for debate. Pulling the racism card is more political game and less insightful debate, and since it is so far fetched in this case someone could just as easily pull it on you for bringing the topic up.
Which is a different issue altogether from whether or not what he did was unintentionally or secretly racist.[/QUOTE]
If you want to extrapolate that far, then most of your comments like this are also racist - as you are making an assumption (likely erroneous) based on the color of the urologist's skin and framing his intentions in that light. You know, instead of the much more obvious concept that the urologist didn't go to school and work his ass off just to get shafted by the government in the end... Thus, he is angry and expressing his anger towards the president who had the final say in the method linked in the OP.
Whether the urologist's protest is right or wrong, well that is obviously easy game for debate. Pulling the racism card is more political game and less insightful debate, and since it is so far fetched in this case someone could just as easily pull it on you for bringing the topic up.
mykevermin
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slippery slopes are logical fallacies.
your post is a slippery slope.
your post is a slippery slope.
[quote name='mykevermin']You're using centuries of institutionally racist policies that have led to incredibly disparate wealth inequality in our society to condemn actions as racist.
That's the very definition of spurious.[/QUOTE]
So, is this your way of refuting the statement? Because it doesn't.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.
You know quite a bit about my intentions, do you?
Quite presumptive.
[quote name='JolietJake']I haven't become a doctor because i have no interest in medicine.[/QUOTE]
If you have no interest in medicine, then you have absolutely zero business trying to tell a doctor how to run his profession. You sure as heck shouldn't get to dictate the terms of someone's life.
That's the very definition of spurious.[/QUOTE]
So, is this your way of refuting the statement? Because it doesn't.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.
You know quite a bit about my intentions, do you?
Quite presumptive.
[quote name='JolietJake']I haven't become a doctor because i have no interest in medicine.[/QUOTE]
If you have no interest in medicine, then you have absolutely zero business trying to tell a doctor how to run his profession. You sure as heck shouldn't get to dictate the terms of someone's life.
mykevermin
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[quote name='UncleBob']So, is this your way of refuting the statement? Because it doesn't.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.[/QUOTE]
The lens through which you view the world is historically broken if the best you can do is paint any differentiation by economic class as a proxy for racism.
Your analogues are, as always, off the mark and in this case, beyond the pale.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.[/QUOTE]
The lens through which you view the world is historically broken if the best you can do is paint any differentiation by economic class as a proxy for racism.
Your analogues are, as always, off the mark and in this case, beyond the pale.
mykevermin
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cool deflection bro.
[quote name='UncleBob']If you have no interest in medicine, then you have absolutely zero business trying to tell a doctor how to run his profession. You sure as heck shouldn't get to dictate the terms of someone's life.[/QUOTE]
Then you can't tell if someone ising up?
I'm not a contractor or an engineer, but if you build a building and it caves in you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a race car driver, but if you crash into a wall and spin out you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a doctor, but if you tell sick people you don't want to treat them because you don't agree with them politically you're doing it wrong.
Then you can't tell if someone is
ing up?I'm not a contractor or an engineer, but if you build a building and it caves in you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a race car driver, but if you crash into a wall and spin out you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a doctor, but if you tell sick people you don't want to treat them because you don't agree with them politically you're doing it wrong.
[quote name='dopa345']All the time.[/QUOTE]
I must have missed it then.
I have said this before but arguing with you is more like playing whack-a-mole.
Still working on part III right?
The new law has flaws sure, now what did your ideological brethren do to fix a single goddamn one of them or even contribute to the discussion?
Short answer: Nada.
I must have missed it then.
I have said this before but arguing with you is more like playing whack-a-mole.
Still working on part III right?
The new law has flaws sure, now what did your ideological brethren do to fix a single goddamn one of them or even contribute to the discussion?
Short answer: Nada.
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JolietJake
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[quote name='UncleBob']So, is this your way of refuting the statement? Because it doesn't.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.
You know quite a bit about my intentions, do you?
Quite presumptive.
If you have no interest in medicine, then you have absolutely zero business trying to tell a doctor how to run his profession. You sure as heck shouldn't get to dictate the terms of someone's life.[/QUOTE]
I don't give a how the guy runs his life or his profession, so long as it doesn't adversely effect patients or break what i see is his duty to his profession. The guy could be the biggest Pat Robertson worshiping neo con in the world and i wouldn't care, so long as he doesn't post a sign saying "liberals seek care elsewhere."
It isn't professional in any sense of the word.
And what's this with saying that I'm condemning actions as racists? I'm just pointing out that the taxes will effect white people worse while giving people of color more benefits.
You know quite a bit about my intentions, do you?
Quite presumptive.
If you have no interest in medicine, then you have absolutely zero business trying to tell a doctor how to run his profession. You sure as heck shouldn't get to dictate the terms of someone's life.[/QUOTE]
I don't give a
how the guy runs his life or his profession, so long as it doesn't adversely effect patients or break what i see is his duty to his profession. The guy could be the biggest Pat Robertson worshiping neo con in the world and i wouldn't care, so long as he doesn't post a sign saying "liberals seek care elsewhere."It isn't professional in any sense of the word.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='SpazX']Then you can't tell if someone is ing up?
I'm not a contractor or an engineer, but if you build a building and it caves in you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a race car driver, but if you crash into a wall and spin out you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a doctor, but if you tell sick people you don't want to treat them because you don't agree with them politically you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
Since i'm not an employee at Wal-Mart i shouldn't get to dictate how my groceries are bagged either i suppose.:lol:
ing up?I'm not a contractor or an engineer, but if you build a building and it caves in you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a race car driver, but if you crash into a wall and spin out you're doing it wrong.
I'm not a doctor, but if you tell sick people you don't want to treat them because you don't agree with them politically you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
Since i'm not an employee at Wal-Mart i shouldn't get to dictate how my groceries are bagged either i suppose.:lol:
mykevermin
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You stock Doctor Thunder like shit, Bob.
JolietJake
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xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='JolietJake']I don't give a how the guy runs his life or his profession, so long as it doesn't adversely effect patients or break what i see is his duty to his profession. The guy could be the biggest Pat Robertson worshiping neo con in the world and i wouldn't care, so long as he doesn't post a sign saying "liberals seek care elsewhere."
It isn't professional in any sense of the word.[/QUOTE]
come on JJ, tell the truth.
how the guy runs his life or his profession, so long as it doesn't adversely effect patients or break what i see is his duty to his profession. The guy could be the biggest Pat Robertson worshiping neo con in the world and i wouldn't care, so long as he doesn't post a sign saying "liberals seek care elsewhere."It isn't professional in any sense of the word.[/QUOTE]
come on JJ, tell the truth.
Trancendental
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[quote name='BigT']Hit and run game? Sorry, I actually work during the day and get home late... I don't have time to closely follow these threads throughout the day...
But OK.
How would you like me to back up my claims.
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html
"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
There was a statement against abortion in the original hippocratic oath.
Look at a modern version... that statement is no longer there...
This is actually a good summary:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1103798
It is what it is...
Happy?[/QUOTE]
Better.
However the ancient Greek's conception of abortion was very different from the modern version. Greeks didn't believe terminating the life of the handful of cells that form in the early stages of pregnancy counted as abortion. Therefore it is disingenuous to paint it as a black-and-white issue (or gloss over the nuances by casually tossing it in as a feint).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/legal/history_1.shtml
OK, their science was screwed up a bit but they did have a rudementary understanding of the development of a fetus and they did make carefully constructed philosophical arguements about when human life began (and it wasn't the moment the sperm hit the egg). Therefore even under the strictest interpretations of the Hippocratic Oath, their conception of abortion did not include first trimester procedures or the morning-after draught/pill.
But OK.
How would you like me to back up my claims.
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html
"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
There was a statement against abortion in the original hippocratic oath.
Look at a modern version... that statement is no longer there...
This is actually a good summary:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1103798
It is what it is...
Happy?[/QUOTE]
Better.
However the ancient Greek's conception of abortion was very different from the modern version. Greeks didn't believe terminating the life of the handful of cells that form in the early stages of pregnancy counted as abortion. Therefore it is disingenuous to paint it as a black-and-white issue (or gloss over the nuances by casually tossing it in as a feint).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/legal/history_1.shtml
OK, their science was screwed up a bit but they did have a rudementary understanding of the development of a fetus and they did make carefully constructed philosophical arguements about when human life began (and it wasn't the moment the sperm hit the egg). Therefore even under the strictest interpretations of the Hippocratic Oath, their conception of abortion did not include first trimester procedures or the morning-after draught/pill.
[quote name='Strell']I think the jokes re:Walmart ought to stop. We're all going to ad hominem here and there but it's getting a little out of hand at times.[/QUOTE]
Normally I would agree but with you, there is no shame in any honest living. But when it comes to Bob? Meh.
Normally I would agree but with you, there is no shame in any honest living. But when it comes to Bob? Meh.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='Msut77']I must have missed it then.
I have said this before but arguing with you is more like playing whack-a-mole.
Still working on part III right?
The new law has flaws sure, now what did your ideological brethren do to fix a single goddamn one of them or even contribute to the discussion?
Short answer: Nada.[/QUOTE]
Thats not how politics in America work. It would be nice though.
I have said this before but arguing with you is more like playing whack-a-mole.
Still working on part III right?
The new law has flaws sure, now what did your ideological brethren do to fix a single goddamn one of them or even contribute to the discussion?
Short answer: Nada.[/QUOTE]
Thats not how politics in America work. It would be nice though.
[quote name='SpazX']I still don't see how "If you voted for Obama, go the away" is legitimate political commentary or how that won't harm patients.[/QUOTE]
It's akin to the whole "If you don't agree with the president, why don't you move to Canada?" argument.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.
away" is legitimate political commentary or how that won't harm patients.[/QUOTE]It's akin to the whole "If you don't agree with the president, why don't you move to Canada?" argument.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='Msut77']Doyle,
I ain't no Pollyanna, I think make Bismarck was right on the money when he spoke of "politics and sausage making" but what you are talking about is more like what has the potential to turn the US into a failed state.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I forgot to add that I realize I am preaching to the choir in my reply to you. Unfortunately, I do fear that we could very well fail as a nation.
I ain't no Pollyanna, I think make Bismarck was right on the money when he spoke of "politics and sausage making" but what you are talking about is more like what has the potential to turn the US into a failed state.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I forgot to add that I realize I am preaching to the choir in my reply to you. Unfortunately, I do fear that we could very well fail as a nation.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='Cantatus']It's akin to the whole "If you don't agree with the president, why don't you move to Canada?" argument.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.[/QUOTE]
in all fairness didn't cher and one of the Baldwin brothers say they would move if bush got a second term. They pretty much perpetuated the whole thing.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.[/QUOTE]
in all fairness didn't cher and one of the Baldwin brothers say they would move if bush got a second term. They pretty much perpetuated the whole thing.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Msut77']Normally I would agree but with you, there is no shame in any honest living. But when it comes to Bob? Meh.[/QUOTE]
I took a barb at Wal-Mart that wasn't an attack on Wal-Mart employees in a way that exploits the job itself (low skill, low intelligence, low wage, no benefit labor).
Besides, it was a cheap opportunity to say "Doctor Thunder," which I will never turn down. They'll pry the Doctor Thunder from my cold, dead hands.
I took a barb at Wal-Mart that wasn't an attack on Wal-Mart employees in a way that exploits the job itself (low skill, low intelligence, low wage, no benefit labor).
Besides, it was a cheap opportunity to say "Doctor Thunder," which I will never turn down. They'll pry the Doctor Thunder from my cold, dead hands.
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']in all fairness didn't cher and one of the Baldwin brothers say they would move if bush got a second term. They pretty much perpetuated the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't really say who started it, but I don't really think it matters. It's a ridiculous sentiment regardless of who it is coming from.
Our political process is founded in the idea that the people can disagree with the government. Thinking that people should leave the country if they don't agree and apparently having the desire that everyone in the country agree with the president is a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion.
I couldn't really say who started it, but I don't really think it matters. It's a ridiculous sentiment regardless of who it is coming from.
Our political process is founded in the idea that the people can disagree with the government. Thinking that people should leave the country if they don't agree and apparently having the desire that everyone in the country agree with the president is a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion.
xxDOYLExx
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[quote name='Cantatus']I couldn't really say who started it, but I don't really think it matters. It's a ridiculous sentiment regardless of who it is coming from.
Our political process is founded in the idea that the people can disagree with the government. Thinking that people should leave the country if they don't agree and apparently have the desire that everyone in the country agree with the president is a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
depends on what you mean by disagree. My bro in law was sitting at my dining room table when he told me that if America went to war with Argentina (hes Argentine) he would fight for Argentina. I think he should leave and take my sister with him. I dont want to be forced to shoot him.
Our political process is founded in the idea that the people can disagree with the government. Thinking that people should leave the country if they don't agree and apparently have the desire that everyone in the country agree with the president is a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
depends on what you mean by disagree. My bro in law was sitting at my dining room table when he told me that if America went to war with Argentina (hes Argentine) he would fight for Argentina. I think he should leave and take my sister with him. I dont want to be forced to shoot him.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Cantatus']It's akin to the whole "If you don't agree with the president, why don't you move to Canada?" argument.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.[/QUOTE]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/
You think this moral judgement and refusal of treatment (explicit or implicit) does not have an effect, but doctors are also authority figures and if allowed to wantonly express judgemental attitudes and act on controversial beliefs then they can and will do serious harm to the patient. Sometimes things can't wait till the next morning, or the next appointment opening with the next specialist 40 miles away, these aren't hissy fits, it is reckless action on the basis of beliefs that are best kept out of the workplace.
If you don't agree something politically, there are things you can do, namely getting involved in the political process.
This guy's actions are nothing more than a petulant child, stomping his feet because he didn't get his way. He's doing nothing to raise awareness about why he disagrees. It's not going to change his patients' minds. If anything, he's just making himself look bad and unprofessional.[/QUOTE]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/
You think this moral judgement and refusal of treatment (explicit or implicit) does not have an effect, but doctors are also authority figures and if allowed to wantonly express judgemental attitudes and act on controversial beliefs then they can and will do serious harm to the patient. Sometimes things can't wait till the next morning, or the next appointment opening with the next specialist 40 miles away, these aren't hissy fits, it is reckless action on the basis of beliefs that are best kept out of the workplace.
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']depends on what you mean by disagree. My bro in law was sitting at my dining room table when he told me that if America went to war with Argentina (hes Argentine) he would fight for Argentina. I think he should leave and take my sister with him. I dont want to be forced to shoot him.[/QUOTE]
Well, the Constitution does spell out what it considers treason.
[quote name='camoor']http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/
You think this moral judgement and refusal of treatment (explicit or implicit) does not have an effect, but doctors are also authority figures and if allowed to wantonly express judgemental attitudes and act on controversial beliefs then they can and will do serious harm to the patient. Sometimes things can't wait till the next morning, or the next appointment opening with the next specialist 40 miles away, these aren't hissy fits, it is reckless action on the basis of beliefs that are best kept out of the workplace.[/QUOTE]
I can't tell if you're addressing me or agreeing with me...
[/QUOTE]Well, the Constitution does spell out what it considers treason.
[quote name='camoor']http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/
You think this moral judgement and refusal of treatment (explicit or implicit) does not have an effect, but doctors are also authority figures and if allowed to wantonly express judgemental attitudes and act on controversial beliefs then they can and will do serious harm to the patient. Sometimes things can't wait till the next morning, or the next appointment opening with the next specialist 40 miles away, these aren't hissy fits, it is reckless action on the basis of beliefs that are best kept out of the workplace.[/QUOTE]
I can't tell if you're addressing me or agreeing with me...
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Strell']I think the jokes re:Walmart ought to stop. We're all going to ad hominem here and there but it's getting a little out of hand at times.[/QUOTE]
Seconded, but what concessions will Bob make?
Seconded, but what concessions will Bob make?
Trancendental
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[quote name='Cantatus']I can't tell if you're addressing me or agreeing with me...[/QUOTE]
I think we're in the same ballpark. However I see the doctor's actions as far more damaging then a child's hissy fit.
These actions are not a petty annoyance, they have the potential to cause serious trust issues and serious medical concerns. People look up to doctors as authority figures, like policemen, lawyers, and politicians these are people with stature who have authority denied to the common layperson. With the exception of politicians (and more narrowly, lawyers) I see no reason why politics should be discussed or acted upon in their respective workplaces.
I think we're in the same ballpark. However I see the doctor's actions as far more damaging then a child's hissy fit.
These actions are not a petty annoyance, they have the potential to cause serious trust issues and serious medical concerns. People look up to doctors as authority figures, like policemen, lawyers, and politicians these are people with stature who have authority denied to the common layperson. With the exception of politicians (and more narrowly, lawyers) I see no reason why politics should be discussed or acted upon in their respective workplaces.
mykevermin
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It's a goddamned shame that trying to segue this discussion back to the original topic only takes us to a urologist.
JolietJake
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Hey it was an opportunity to compare what Bob was saying to something which he sees every day at work.
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mykevermin
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depascal22
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Good God. This thread makes my head hurt.
This whole thing reeks of political stunt. As soon as I read that the doctor's wife was running as a Republican, I pretty much wrote off the whole thing.
This case goes to show you how little we really know about doctors. The health care bill should've made doctors put big signs on their doors stating "I graduated from a medical school in the Caribbean. Closest thing we had to disinfectants down there was running sewer water. I have no idea what a DaVinci robot is but I've got a helluva home remedy for Montezuma's Revenge and the clap."
This whole thing reeks of political stunt. As soon as I read that the doctor's wife was running as a Republican, I pretty much wrote off the whole thing.
This case goes to show you how little we really know about doctors. The health care bill should've made doctors put big signs on their doors stating "I graduated from a medical school in the Caribbean. Closest thing we had to disinfectants down there was running sewer water. I have no idea what a DaVinci robot is but I've got a helluva home remedy for Montezuma's Revenge and the clap."
mykevermin
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[quote name='depascal22']Good God. This thread makes my head hurt.[/QUOTE]
You should go see a doctor.
You should go see a doctor.
bread's done